MTG Salvation

Quote from Earthbound21

Good thing Glittering Wish exists, and is fairly pain free on a Bob flip.

This. Glittering Wish + Bob is a key reason to run Glittering Junk, because it allows you to run a lot of toolbox cards (potentially with high CMC) at absolutely no risk of flipping them. It also fuels consistency if you keep a single copy of Knight of the Reliquary, Kitchen Finks, etc. in the board.

Makes me want some Glittering Junk action.

Hey guys,

I've been looking into Wishing-Doran-Junk for a while now and I was wondering if rafiq of the many is worth splashing blue for it?

I was thinking that since charming zoo can get 4 colours easy enough for bant charm, then why wouldn't 4 colours be much of a stretch here? Especially considering that rafiq allows this to be really agressive, allowing for a doran to attack for 12 on turn 4 with a good draw.
T1 land, treefolk harbinger fetching doran.
T2 land, glittering wish fetching rafiq.
T3 land, doran. harbinger attacks for 3 or whatever
T4 land, rafiq, doran attacks for 12

Obviously that's just going to die to removal, but I think it's a powerful play that demands answers that shouldn't hurt the deck to try and do it.

Any opinions?

I think Blue would be a good addition for a list that wants to control the game a little more, for the same reasons Zoo found it appealing: Bant Charm, Unified Will, and Flashfreeze. Rafiq might be able to fit in that mix, but at that point you're almost splashing Black for Doran and maybe Bob, so it might just be sound to cut Black altogether and run Wish-Bant.

EDIT: Since there seems to be some interest in developing the archetype as a whole, should we start a primer? It might not even be strictly GWB, Wish could end up being a card useful for most GW decks to help fill the void that was left by Zenith.

That's good point actually, thanks for your insight I guess rafiq can just be considered a bit "too cute" in the scenario I described above.

I believe that's a good way to describe Rafiq in general. He is cute and can provide a lot in the correct situation (sounds perfect for a Wish target. :P).

Blue probably isn't necessary. Sure you get counterspells, but don't you already play 7 discard spells already? Or 11, depending how you look at it. Here's my list:



I feel like this deck concept is innately strong against control, and thus warrants fewer slots in the SB. Zoo is always the most prominent deck, and has to be thoroughly addressed, which I think I have.

Anyone tried Putrid Leech? I play it in my current build and like it a lot. Is sculler that good?

Considering lists will run Dark Confidant, Murmuring Bosk and the other regular fetchlands and shocklands, I just don't see putrid leech being worth it. You're half dead without even trying.

Considering we have things like knight of the reliquary, tarmogoyf and doran at our disposal, you can get something that's even better than a 4/4 all of the time and with no life payment.

Imo, Sculler's great. I think it's because it will either draw hate, protecting your real threats or it will shut your opponent down which is fantastic. I'm sure someone more experienced than myself will enlighten both of us if I'm wrong.

I've been playing around with gatekeeper of malakir and it's been pretty amazing for me. I had to change up my mana-base drastically to accommodate for it, cutting 1 temple garden 1 horizon canopy and 1 treetop village for 2 reflecting pools and a second overgrown tomb (running no temple gardens, as I barely ever fetched for it.) He works extremely well with swords as well, and I've had a few games where the sac effect saved me from mirran crusader or a sword wielder.

Seijir Steppe has been underwhelming for me, if only because I rarely had a time that I would want to wait back to use it. Bojuka Bog has been solid gold if only for the fact that it hates fairly well on enemy knights and tarmogoyf.

For a knight package I have to go with

• Bojuka Bog
  
• Tectonic Edge
  
• Arena
  
• Oran-Rief, the Vastwood

Bojuka Bog:
For reasons stated above.

Tectonic Edge:
With the blazing shoals combo dead I feel more comfortable making this a tec edge, it's slower but you don't tempo yourself using it. It's also great for mindgames, I've had games where I knock out a seachrome coast, leaving them unable to counterspell anything because they tapped for the wrong mana.

Arena:
More than a few people have spelled out how this card can be a beating. More often than not our creatures are bigger than theirs.

Oran-Rief:
With so many fetch-lands/shock-lands I really find playing two finks main-board to be amazing. They can create an impenetrable wall against most much larger creatures.

Another land to consider is Gavony Township and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
I haven't tested this card out much, but it's a beating with the number of creatures I'm playing. It's not as effective as the Oran-Rief with finks, but it is better in other situations.

I really like Urborg, but the fact that it means all players kind of makes me hate the card. If you do adopt it it might be reasonable to look into tendrils of corruption, as the deck does lose a lot of life due to fetch.

Anyways, here's my list.



Here are a few cards to consider:

Mana Tithe
I love this card. Force Spike in white? Yes please. I had it mainboard for awhile, but I didn't catch enough with it, and I always boarded it out in game two if they knew I had it. It's a great card for mind games just like any other counter spell, and I've had my friends playing around it for awhile (they still don't know I've taken it out).

Baneslayer Angel
This is the top of the curve I could see including. Baneslayer is, as always, a beast. I haven't tried her yet out because I'm terrified of killing myself with Bob.

Mirran Crusader
Seems like a beating against some decks, and a goyf will never pass through. I kind of gave up on the guy once they banned stoneforge mystic. He's a little redundant with my sword choice, but he's pretty crazy with one anyway. He costs 3, which is kind of poor for the curve of the deck, but he is efficient.

Primeval Titan
Kind of like Baneslayer Angel, he's a beater, and can grab a few of the utility lands while he's at it. I'm even more scared of running Prime Time not only because he costs 1 meaning he comes out a turn later or deals you 1 more damage with the confidant, but because he can't gain you life, gross.

Glittering Wish
I would love to run my playset of glittering wish, but it doesn't seem that powerful. The original wishes had a lot more cards to choose from when it came to selection, but I could definitely see running 1 (maybe 2) for a small package like Fracturing Gust or even more specific pieces of removal like Maelstrom Pulse or an end-game beater like Lord of Extinction Angel of Despair. I can't see it worth siding out Knights to be picked up with it though (Why not just play a better creature for 5?). Who knows, maybe they'll print better multi-colored cards and it'll be worth playing.

Glissa, the Traitor
Fights with just about any creature in modern and wins, her casting cost isn't that bad, and her ability isn't extremely relevant but could pick up some tempo over the game. If a list did see play with her they'd have to cut Doran for her (Too many 3s!). I could also see executioner capsule filling in fairly nicely along side her. Only downside is that she dies to bolt which is relevant.

Crystal Ball
Horrid. I know. I just can't help but want this card when I flip over my singleton elspeth with bob ;_;.

Skinshifter
I hate that you can't activate his ability more than once in a single turn and I know he's balanced the way he is. But the fact that he dies to any in response measure kind of irks me. But besides that he's great, carries a sword well, works well with Doran, can even become an efficient beater. Nick Cage is pretty decent, I just haven't gotten around to figuring him out.

Tarmogoyf
I'm sure a few of you are like "Oh man, no Tarmogoyf? What kind of rock list doesn't play the goyfiest of the goyfs?". He's too slow. I'm sorry, I said it. I've had games where I really just want him to grow huge quickly for two mana, but too many ganes has he sat around at a 3/4 or smaller. At most times I just want to play a Sculler or Bob, and by the next turn I want to play a Knight. I want to play him, but I haven't figured out the correct number, and 0-2 might be it. I'd also hate to any have a Goyf and a Knight out and some jerk pops a Relic of Progenitus, the cards were just too similar. He's a great topdeck, that's for certain, but so is Knight and Gatekeeper.

This also begs the question "Why include Doran if you aren't going to use his ability for more than 2 creatures?", it's because he's a 5/5 for 3, and he's pretty much always a 5/5 for 3. He's an efficient creature and that's why he's in a rock list.

I think I've found a new deck to play! <3

The Glittering Wish deck is probably what I will pick up. Question for you gents is why Tec Edge over Ghost Quarters? I will have to budget out Tarm, but is skin shifter a good replacement for him without Doran? Why are no lists running Dismember? as a singleton of course, or is the split second -4/-4 strictly better?


Also, thank you for the white force spike. Quite hilarious and I will like 4 as a collection card.

What I'm thinking of running.


I'm one short in the MD. Any suggestions? This is going to be kitchen table played and decks I will need to beat is Eldrazi Green, Jund, red aggro, and U/B Control, maybe an occasional tournament, but those decks are what I want it geared toward beating.

Found it, but I'm not really happy with Skinshifter. Any other beaters?

Quote from Merihim

For a knight package I have to go with

• Bojuka Bog
  
• Tectonic Edge
  
• Arena
  
• Oran-Rief, the Vastwood

Bojuka Bog:
For reasons stated above.

Tectonic Edge:
With the blazing shoals combo dead I feel more comfortable making this a tec edge, it's slower but you don't tempo yourself using it. It's also great for mindgames, I've had games where I knock out a seachrome coast, leaving them unable to counterspell anything because they tapped for the wrong mana.

Arena:
More than a few people have spelled out how this card can be a beating. More often than not our creatures are bigger than theirs.

Oran-Rief:
With so many fetch-lands/shock-lands I really find playing two finks main-board to be amazing. They can create an impenetrable wall against most much larger creatures.

Better make sure you have a Knight of the Reliquary because Arena does diddly-squat with Doran and Treefolk Harbinger. Your other creatures' power don't look too great, either.

Quote from Krimson Viper

I think I've found a new deck to play! <3

The Glittering Wish deck is probably what I will pick up. Question for you gents is why Tec Edge over Ghost Quarters? I will have to budget out Tarm, but is skin shifter a good replacement for him without Doran? Why are no lists running Dismember? as a singleton of course, or is the split second -4/-4 strictly better?


Also, thank you for the white force spike. Quite hilarious and I will like 4 as a collection card.

What I'm thinking of running.

Brandon's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creatures-18 4 Dark Confidant 4 Skinshifter 3 Tidehallow Sculler 3 Knight of the Reliquary 3 Kitchen Finks 1 Doran, the Siege Tower Tech-18 3 Path to Exile 4 Inquisition of kozilek 2 Profane Command 4 Glittering Wish 1 Smother 2 go for the throat 2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant	Lands-24 4 Verdant Catacomb 4 Marsh Flats 2 Overgrown Tomb 2 Godless Shrine 2 temple garden 1 Arena 1 Oran-reif, the vastwood 1 Treetop Village 1 Murmuring Bosk 2 Swamp 2 Plains 1 Forest 1 Ghost Quarter	Sideboard 3 kataki, war's wage 1 Crime // Punishment 1 Qasali Pridemage 1 Doran, the Siege Tower 1 Kitchen Finks 1 Knight of the Reliquary 1 Maelstrom Pulse 1 Loxodon Hierarch 1 Glissa, the traitor 1 Bojuka Bog 3 Spellskite

I'm one short in the MD. Any suggestions? This is going to be kitchen table played and decks I will need to beat is Eldrazi Green, Jund, red aggro, and U/B Control, maybe an occasional tournament, but those decks are what I want it geared toward beating.

Found it, but I'm not really happy with Skinshifter. Any other beaters?

I think the main reason people aren't running Dismember is we're already losing so much life to Bob, at least that's been my testing. How has Profane Command been treating you? I've been unimpressed with it in my casual Wish build, and I prefer Primal Command. I'm similarly underwhelmed with Skinshifter, but he's probably the best budget replacement for Goyf. Might not be a bad idea to up your Doran count to make him better. Maybe swap one for one?

Quote from Viricide

I think the main reason people aren't running Dismember is we're already losing so much life to Bob, at least that's been my testing. How has Profane Command been treating you? I've been unimpressed with it in my casual Wish build, and I prefer Primal Command. I'm similarly underwhelmed with Skinshifter, but he's probably the best budget replacement for Goyf. Might not be a bad idea to up your Doran count to make him better. Maybe swap one for one?

I wish I could say I've been playing the deck, but I haven't yet. What I mean by Skinshifter being underwhelming is that I've seen him played and I wasn't very happy with his performance, but maybe he'll be different here, who knows. I switched out Gaddock for Glissa. I play on kitchen tables mostly and Gaddock won't really be helping me much there. The only thing I don't like about Primal Command is that its CMC is 5, which is very painful with Bob.

How is this deck against Jund?

*Edit*
I have played with Profane before and I was somewhat disappointed with it's performance before. I played it in a casual MBI build and it was disappointing because life loss was irrelevant and the -X/-X was nearly impossible to kill off creatures with in the 24 lands I played. The points where it was strong was Fear and reanimation. With Profane, we're essentially running more creatures. The only problem being that they cost an additional BB, which might be back breaking in 24 lands. Only testing will put my mind at ease. What happened with you?

So, a bit of play and I've noticed I'm really killing myself with so many fetches, shocks, and Bobs. The mana base is really greedy, and I think 1 of each shock will be optimal. I will definitely be eliminating Arena and Treetop Village and turning them into 2 more Ghost Quarter. I find that KotR is kill on sight and I never get to benefit from her ability, so maybe a bit of land destruction will help me more than not. Murmuring Bosk will be eliminated as well, and I think I will replace it with another Vastwood or a Golgar Rot Farm, which would be another way to pump KotR or mana ramp.

As for Bob, I'm not sure what I could use, but I really want some sort of 1 drop, but the CA from Bob is awesome, but he brings so much pain to the table. Any thoughts from anyone?

Quote from Krimson Viper

So, a bit of play and I've noticed I'm really killing myself with so many fetches, shocks, and Bobs. The mana base is really greedy, and I think 1 of each shock will be optimal. I will definitely be eliminating Arena and Treetop Village and turning them into 2 more Ghost Quarter. I find that KotR is kill on sight and I never get to benefit from her ability, so maybe a bit of land destruction will help me more than not. Murmuring Bosk will be eliminated as well, and I think I will replace it with another Vastwood or a Golgar Rot Farm, which would be another way to pump KotR or mana ramp.

As for Bob, I'm not sure what I could use, but I really want some sort of 1 drop, but the CA from Bob is awesome, but he brings so much pain to the table. Any thoughts from anyone?

I wouldnt use Golgari Rot far at all, rather keep the bosk or add Woodland Cemetery, aso maybe add 2 Phirexan Arena sloer than bob but should cause less damage.and how was the jund match up ?

I may keep the Bosk, but I might try the enemy check lands. I'm not going to bother with removing Bob. Arena would be the best, but it starts a full turn later and that's where I'd like to drop KotR or Finks.

I never got to battle Jund, but Eldrazi Green, a casual Essence of the Wild, and a Percy Legacy deck. Eldrazi Green stomped my face in. I beat everything else. It's a slow start up and I can definitely see a need for a board wipe, something better that Crime//Punishment.

Man, this reminds me a silly Rock deck my friend and I made a long time ago when Shadowmoor was the current standard. I made a few changes once it cycled out to be an extended deck, which is why you may see some newer cards.

Let me see if I can remember it:



I realize it's probably not competitive, but I may try to reassemble it for kicks and see how it goes.

My last list I'm running.



The deck never seems to be very consistent to me, and Sculler is just a poop card with PK fire and Bolt in the format, so I'm going to abandon that guy altogether. I think Thoughtseize or Duress may do it better. I believe I'm going to ditch Glittering Wish and put in 2 Doran and see how that goes. The synergy he has with Skinshifter is amazing. With that change, I'm going to have to adjust my SB a lot to accommodate the dropping of Wish.



Any thoughts? Any body?