What are people's opinions on Gut Shot in the sideboard? I would think since a lot of the early flying blockers have 1 Toughness it would be good inclusion. I want to try a mix of Gut Shot and Abrupt Decay in the sideboard and omit the Dismembers.
Thinking about running this midrange/tempo BG build. A little different than most builds, but i wanna try some new things. Add even more hate and removal to the sideboard, with a few pump/pro spells like Vines of Vastwood.
What are people's opinions on Gut Shot in the sideboard? I would think since a lot of the early flying blockers have 1 Toughness it would be good inclusion. I want to try a mix of Gut Shot and Abrupt Decay in the sideboard and omit the Dismembers.
if your running black i think disfigure would be more useful than gut shot.
-2/-2 would kill not only the x/1's that bother you, but several of melira pod and kiki pods critical creatures that gut shot is 1 damage short of killing.
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Infect topped a premium event on MTGO and there is an article on it on SCG. It runs a couple of weird things and takes a different approach that makes it slightly less of a glass cannon deck. His article has already shot up the price of Pendelhaven. LOL
if your running black i think disfigure would be more useful than gut shot.
-2/-2 would kill not only the x/1's that bother you, but several of melira pod and kiki pods critical creatures that gut shot is 1 damage short of killing.
Disfigure is good but I guess I would rather run Dismember since it is easier to cast and hits even more targets.
The main reason I was thinking about Gut Shot is that it does not cost mana, so your mana is free to cast your pump spells. The question for me is, if the trade-off of only doing 1 damage is worth this benefit.
I think the issue is that what ever removal or disruption you include in your infect package, it needs to hit Spellskite and Melira, Sylvok Outcast.
However, a free alternative to Gut Shot could be Slaughter Pact as long as you are running B just in case lol. It seems like it might be a good way to remove a Spellskite or annoying blocker for free on the turn you go for the win. Worst case scenario it is a slightly expensive removal spell the turn after you cast it. I am going to experiment with it and see how it goes as a Dismember replacement. It would also go nicely against Splinter Twin as you can safely tap out and lure them into a false sense of security. In a pinch it even kills things like Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite or an attacking Gideon Jura, which can both be very painful for the deck.
Only run Gut Shot if you're running Wild Defiance, because you can trigger pump with it. However, if you're running Wild Defiance, I think you're running an inferior build. And Gut Shot fails to kill alot of relevant targets, as was pointed out earlier. Your life is not infinite. In between fetches and shocks and Thoughseize and Spellskite activations, adding another 2 life lost for 1 damage seems inferior. Disfigure is horrible too. If you're wasting a mana to waste a 2/2, you're doing it wrong.
Not a fan of that Starcity list. Seems like it's trying a more tempo/control build for Infect, which seems terrible. 21 creatures overall? Seems like too many IMHO. Not much evasion either. It looks like you're hoping they're too dumb to block 1/1 infects or that you have a Predator Strike in hand.
this does make a sort of sense for why wild defiance is being under estimated as of late.
The biggest change is that we have Wild Defiance in the maindeck. This solves a number of problems, the main of which is Spellskite. Infect and Auras are known for their weakness to Spellskite, especially from the splash damage caused by Splinter Twin players including it in their maindeck to protect their own combo. Here it provides a trigger that can push your pump spells through the 0/4 regardless of their ability to redirect the actual spell. Wild Defiance also allows the deck to deal lethal normal damage from time to time with Noble Hierarch. It's also natural protection against Lightning Bolt and the much more annoying Electrolyze, which is likely the best card in the format against you.
the quam I have with mainboard wild defiance is too that scg list and many others skip using distortion sprike the rebound, gives you double use out of wild defiance, ontop of it making your creature unblockable.
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--------------------------------------------------- Vintage will rise again!Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
this does make a sort of sense for why wild defiance is being under estimated as of late.
the quam I have with mainboard wild defiance is too that scg list and many others skip using distortion sprike the rebound, gives you double use out of wild defiance, ontop of it making your creature unblockable.
If they drop a spellskite, I can fly over it with exalted triggered Inkmoth or Plague Stinger in the BUG build or with Blighted Agent. I then hope to draw a Nature's Claim or Twisted Image or Dismember and just kill Spellskite and finish them off. I played in a IQ a couple of weekends ago and faced Spellskite all day long. I admit it can be a bugaboo but it can be played around or dealt with. It is not a good reason to run a 3 drop win more card that gets around burn. Our stuff will still die to path or a correctly timed Dismember.
But maybe I'm totally wrong. If you're in a burn heavy meta, I could see Wild Defiance being OK, but until I see that meta locally I'm not ready to commit slots to that card.
this does make a sort of sense for why wild defiance is being under estimated as of late.
the quam I have with mainboard wild defiance is too that scg list and many others skip using distortion sprike the rebound, gives you double use out of wild defiance, ontop of it making your creature unblockable.
In lists with U I like running Aqueous Form over Distortion Strike. The Scry helps keep tempo and the effects in general last longer.
I think the issue is that what ever removal or disruption you include in your infect package, it needs to hit Spellskite and Melira, Sylvok Outcast.
Yes, that certainly is the biggest counter argument for Gut Shot.
However, a free alternative to Gut Shot could be Slaughter Pact as long as you are running B just in case lol.
That's an excellent suggestion. I hadn't thought of that card at all. It seems superior to Gut Shot for what I am trying to do with it. I will have to test it.
Infect topped a premium event on MTGO and there is an article on it on SCG.
It seems Infect has now recently won 3 premier events on MTGO, 2 of which were won by krazykirby4 (Larry Swasey) with the Tom Ross list from the SCG article. The 3rd premium event was won with a BUG list piloted by OlleR.
Krazykirby4 won the first premier event with identically the same list as Tom Ross, 3 days after the article was published:
The list obviously got the business done, but it looked like it needed some of the numbers tweaked, which krazykirby4 did and won another premier tourney just one week later:
This list looks much better to me. Interestingly it added another Wild Defiance making the total 3, with no Rancor to be seen in the list. No doubt this is because Rancor doesn't trigger Wild Defiance and the deck has very little trouble getting through. Distortion Strike was added as a 1 of, which has much better synergy with Wild Defiance. Also Gitaxian Probe was removed, with Groundswell being bumped up to 4. The sideboard was tidied up as well with Carrion Call and Necropede removed in favor of 2 more Dismember and 1 more Spellskite. This really looks like a good list, that makes excellent use of Wild Defiance, a card that is often debated about when it comes to modern infect. I also like that it runs 4 x Apostle's Blessing which is sometimes over looked.
OlleR won his premier tourney with a solid looking BUG list:
You will notice the slightly higher land count of 22, with the full 4 x Overgrown Tomb being run, to give the deck more access to B. This is to help with casting turn 1 Inquisition of Kozilek and my favourite infect card ... Phyrexian Crusader which is a 4 of in the sideboard. This is probably my favourite BUG list that I have seen, as I think that it makes great use of black.
It seems that Infect is alive and well in the modern format at the moment, with both UG and BUG lists being capable of taking down big tournaments. Well done guys!
Interesting. What's the graveyard hate for? I used to run Grafdiggers Cage in my side for storm/pod, but Relic and Tormod's Crypt are interesting. Living End?
I'm not sure how I feel about Distortion Strike and Predator's Strike. They seem cute, but I can see how they're good against cards like Lingering Souls and other things that get in our way. Sometimes I think a Giant Growth would be better... It gives more damage, and opens up my mana. I guess the only way I'll find out is testing and how much evasion I need.
I considered splashing 2 red lands (most likely 2 Stomping Ground) because the idea of Ghor-Clan Rampager seems nice: an additional +4/+4 and Trample (emphasis added on the evasion) that can't be countered. I'm assuming the deck isn't too worried about UWR Midrange or UWR Control, and more on decks that pack things like Abrupt Decay, Path to Exile, and Liliana of the Veil. Red does add a few other cute cards like Flesh // Blood, Armed // Dangerous, and Assault Strobe. For now though I like the BUG-shell.
Also, I don't know how I feel about Ichorclaw Myr. If I start seeing more Lingering Souls, it may be worth consideration.
I'm not sure how I feel about Distortion Strike and Predator's Strike. They seem cute, but I can see how they're good against cards like Lingering Souls and other things that get in our way. Sometimes I think a Giant Growth would be better... It gives more damage, and opens up my mana. I guess the only way I'll find out is testing and how much evasion I need.
I considered splashing 2 red lands (most likely 2 Stomping Ground) because the idea of Ghor-Clan Rampager seems nice: an additional +4/+4 and Trample (emphasis added on the evasion) that can't be countered. I'm assuming the deck isn't too worried about UWR Midrange or UWR Control, and more on decks that pack things like Abrupt Decay, Path to Exile, and Liliana of the Veil. Red does add a few other cute cards like Flesh // Blood, Armed // Dangerous, and Assault Strobe. For now though I like the BUG-shell.
Also, I don't know how I feel about Ichorclaw Myr. If I start seeing more Lingering Souls, it may be worth consideration.
Distortion Strike is freaking great from what I've seen. the unblockable it gives you and the small amount of pump has won me a fair amount of games so far. As for Icorclaw Myr it works great with Rancor seeing as when it gets block it pumps itself up.
Also, I don't know how I feel about Ichorclaw Myr. If I start seeing more Lingering Souls, it may be worth consideration.
red is a splash color a lot of us are skeptical about since bug and blue green have done so well on there own. but when you mention ironclaw, he's the guy that pairs best with red spells. assault strobeing him when large blockers get in his way leaves the path clear, and often he stays alive. not to mention if your going to flesh // blood one of our guys, that will flips his blocked attack into a decent punt.
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--------------------------------------------------- Vintage will rise again!Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
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Can't see how it's that much worse. Jund plays decay, lilly(which blessing and vines cant stop) bolt, pulse and terminate. Zoo plays bolt, helix path and maybe snapcaster.
We are banking on hard to block or unblockable creatures in this deck, so zoo should not hurt us directly. If it is tier 1 (which it probably will be) then that means people will be packing more hate for it, and a lot of that hate is bad for Infect too. That said, I really don't think it will make this deck all that much less effective than it is. If anything it really cements the idea of Crusader in the SB IMO.
The worst thing about the Zoo matchup is that they can burn themselves all day long with lands because we are not attacking their life. I wonder if our best move against Zoo, however, is to really push the fast win. There is very little in Modern that has the capacity to win as fast and as reliably as Infect. If we really tune for that turn 2-3 win it might be the best way around Zoo.
Then again, if we do that we might get something banned from this deck, so perhaps that will require more thought.
I got the 4 Noble Hierarch and 4 Inkmoth Nexus today, huzzah! All I need to tackle is a sideboard now... Dammit, why did I sell my Spellskites last year.
Anyway, what is everyone's thoughts of a more protective spell-selection? Emilien Wild got 13th (12-3) at GP Lyon with this mixture of cards back in November 2012:
4 Groundswell
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Ranger's Guile
4 Giant Growth
4 Apostle's Blessing
With Zoo possibly going up in popularity again, does it seem safe to play more copies of Distortion Strike and Apostle's Blessings? Hell, some Zoo lists can pack a lot of Burn and removal, so Ranger's Guile is even looking pretty good right now.
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4x Hand of the Praetors
4x Ichor Rats
4x Phyrexian Crusader
4x Plague Stinger
4x Thoughtseize
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Virulent Wound
4x Dismember
2x Hero's Downfall
2x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Abrupt Decay
if your running black i think disfigure would be more useful than gut shot.
-2/-2 would kill not only the x/1's that bother you, but several of melira pod and kiki pods critical creatures that gut shot is 1 damage short of killing.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Disfigure is good but I guess I would rather run Dismember since it is easier to cast and hits even more targets.
The main reason I was thinking about Gut Shot is that it does not cost mana, so your mana is free to cast your pump spells. The question for me is, if the trade-off of only doing 1 damage is worth this benefit.
However, a free alternative to Gut Shot could be Slaughter Pact as long as you are running B just in case lol. It seems like it might be a good way to remove a Spellskite or annoying blocker for free on the turn you go for the win. Worst case scenario it is a slightly expensive removal spell the turn after you cast it. I am going to experiment with it and see how it goes as a Dismember replacement. It would also go nicely against Splinter Twin as you can safely tap out and lure them into a false sense of security. In a pinch it even kills things like Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite or an attacking Gideon Jura, which can both be very painful for the deck.
Not a fan of that Starcity list. Seems like it's trying a more tempo/control build for Infect, which seems terrible. 21 creatures overall? Seems like too many IMHO. Not much evasion either. It looks like you're hoping they're too dumb to block 1/1 infects or that you have a Predator Strike in hand.
the quam I have with mainboard wild defiance is too that scg list and many others skip using distortion sprike the rebound, gives you double use out of wild defiance, ontop of it making your creature unblockable.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
If they drop a spellskite, I can fly over it with exalted triggered Inkmoth or Plague Stinger in the BUG build or with Blighted Agent. I then hope to draw a Nature's Claim or Twisted Image or Dismember and just kill Spellskite and finish them off. I played in a IQ a couple of weekends ago and faced Spellskite all day long. I admit it can be a bugaboo but it can be played around or dealt with. It is not a good reason to run a 3 drop win more card that gets around burn. Our stuff will still die to path or a correctly timed Dismember.
But maybe I'm totally wrong. If you're in a burn heavy meta, I could see Wild Defiance being OK, but until I see that meta locally I'm not ready to commit slots to that card.
In lists with U I like running Aqueous Form over Distortion Strike. The Scry helps keep tempo and the effects in general last longer.
Yes, that certainly is the biggest counter argument for Gut Shot.
That's an excellent suggestion. I hadn't thought of that card at all. It seems superior to Gut Shot for what I am trying to do with it. I will have to test it.
It seems Infect has now recently won 3 premier events on MTGO, 2 of which were won by krazykirby4 (Larry Swasey) with the Tom Ross list from the SCG article. The 3rd premium event was won with a BUG list piloted by OlleR.
Krazykirby4 won the first premier event with identically the same list as Tom Ross, 3 days after the article was published:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/6622239
4 Breeding Pool
1 Cathedral of War
3 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Pendelhaven
4 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures (17)
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Ichorclaw Myr
1 Necropede
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Apostle's Blessing
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Groundswell
4 Might of Old Krosa
3 Mutagenic Growth
1 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Wild Defiance
2 Carrion Call
1 Dismember
2 Dispel
4 Nature's Claim
1 Necropede
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Spellskite
2 Twisted Image
The list obviously got the business done, but it looked like it needed some of the numbers tweaked, which krazykirby4 did and won another premier tourney just one week later:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/6654103
3 Breeding Pool
1 Cathedral of War
3 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Pendelhaven
4 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures (17)
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Ichorclaw Myr
1 Necropede
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Apostle's Blessing
1 Distortion Strike
4 Groundswell
4 Might of Old Krosa
3 Mutagenic Growth
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Wild Defiance
3 Dismember
2 Dispel
4 Nature's Claim
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Spellskite
2 Twisted Image
This list looks much better to me. Interestingly it added another Wild Defiance making the total 3, with no Rancor to be seen in the list. No doubt this is because Rancor doesn't trigger Wild Defiance and the deck has very little trouble getting through. Distortion Strike was added as a 1 of, which has much better synergy with Wild Defiance. Also Gitaxian Probe was removed, with Groundswell being bumped up to 4. The sideboard was tidied up as well with Carrion Call and Necropede removed in favor of 2 more Dismember and 1 more Spellskite. This really looks like a good list, that makes excellent use of Wild Defiance, a card that is often debated about when it comes to modern infect. I also like that it runs 4 x Apostle's Blessing which is sometimes over looked.
OlleR won his premier tourney with a solid looking BUG list:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/6654128
2 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Pendelhaven
4 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures (16)
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Plague Stinger
4 Groundswell
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Dismember
2 Distortion Strike
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Phyrexian Crusader
1 Tormod's Crypt
You will notice the slightly higher land count of 22, with the full 4 x Overgrown Tomb being run, to give the deck more access to B. This is to help with casting turn 1 Inquisition of Kozilek and my favourite infect card ... Phyrexian Crusader which is a 4 of in the sideboard. This is probably my favourite BUG list that I have seen, as I think that it makes great use of black.
It seems that Infect is alive and well in the modern format at the moment, with both UG and BUG lists being capable of taking down big tournaments. Well done guys!
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Pendelhaven
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
1 Cathedral of War
4 Plague Stinger
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
4 Groundswell
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Rancor
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Mutagenic Growth
2 Apostle's Blessing
1 Distortion Strike
1 Predator's Strike
1 Ranger's Guile
I'm not sure how I feel about Distortion Strike and Predator's Strike. They seem cute, but I can see how they're good against cards like Lingering Souls and other things that get in our way. Sometimes I think a Giant Growth would be better... It gives more damage, and opens up my mana. I guess the only way I'll find out is testing and how much evasion I need.
I considered splashing 2 red lands (most likely 2 Stomping Ground) because the idea of Ghor-Clan Rampager seems nice: an additional +4/+4 and Trample (emphasis added on the evasion) that can't be countered. I'm assuming the deck isn't too worried about UWR Midrange or UWR Control, and more on decks that pack things like Abrupt Decay, Path to Exile, and Liliana of the Veil. Red does add a few other cute cards like Flesh // Blood, Armed // Dangerous, and Assault Strobe. For now though I like the BUG-shell.
Also, I don't know how I feel about Ichorclaw Myr. If I start seeing more Lingering Souls, it may be worth consideration.
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
Distortion Strike is freaking great from what I've seen. the unblockable it gives you and the small amount of pump has won me a fair amount of games so far. As for Icorclaw Myr it works great with Rancor seeing as when it gets block it pumps itself up.
red is a splash color a lot of us are skeptical about since bug and blue green have done so well on there own. but when you mention ironclaw, he's the guy that pairs best with red spells. assault strobeing him when large blockers get in his way leaves the path clear, and often he stays alive. not to mention if your going to flesh // blood one of our guys, that will flips his blocked attack into a decent punt.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Can't see how it's that much worse. Jund plays decay, lilly(which blessing and vines cant stop) bolt, pulse and terminate. Zoo plays bolt, helix path and maybe snapcaster.
The worst thing about the Zoo matchup is that they can burn themselves all day long with lands because we are not attacking their life. I wonder if our best move against Zoo, however, is to really push the fast win. There is very little in Modern that has the capacity to win as fast and as reliably as Infect. If we really tune for that turn 2-3 win it might be the best way around Zoo.
Then again, if we do that we might get something banned from this deck, so perhaps that will require more thought.
These are just ideas of the top of my head.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Anyway, what is everyone's thoughts of a more protective spell-selection? Emilien Wild got 13th (12-3) at GP Lyon with this mixture of cards back in November 2012:
4 Groundswell
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Ranger's Guile
4 Giant Growth
4 Apostle's Blessing
With Zoo possibly going up in popularity again, does it seem safe to play more copies of Distortion Strike and Apostle's Blessings? Hell, some Zoo lists can pack a lot of Burn and removal, so Ranger's Guile is even looking pretty good right now.
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.