Tutor + creature has always been a strong combination. Just look at Imperial Recruiter and Stoneforge Mystic. Obviously those Legacy cards are much more powerful, but card advantage + creature is nothing to scoff at. Executioner's Capsule is great in scenarios where you don't want your removal to get countered or are recurring it out of the graveyard, I've gone back and forth on it.
I think you are underestimating Trading Post, saccing an artifact for a card draw is actually my least used mode on it. Lifegain against burn and getting your dead artifacts out of the graveyard are its primary uses. Also Ichor Wellspring is the epitome of durdle card, not trying to durdle with our Trading Posts.
Mox Opal really depends on the build. You need a large amount of artifacts to make it good, but going too hard on the artifacts can mean death to Stony Silence. Unless you can reliably get it online by turn 3 it isn't much more useful than a regular mana rock.
The Inkmoth interaction is sweet, but I don't think it is worth running unless you run 4. Rampant Ghost Quarters, Tec Edges, and 1 mana removal make it a risky play in today's Modern. If you get in 1 hit and then it dies you just wasted two Tezzeret triggers and got in no real damage.
I agree on the Tar Pits, probably bumping up to 3. We just don't want to miss too much on turn 1 discard effects or turn 3 or 4 sweepers and Tezzerets.
MTG Brewmaster - The fastest deck builder around (Please PM me with comments or problems!)
Modern: Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
Trinket Mage:
1) Finds the silver bullet
2) Is a body
3) Helps thin the deck
Without him we have to run:
4x Pithing Needle
4x Engineered Explosives
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Nihil Spellbomb
Not running him is like not running Green Sun Zenith in Legacy.
I can see making him the sideboard plan and running cliques in his place, but if you've played this deck enough...you'll realize he is necessary.
Running 3 maybe too many doe.
I'm not gonna argue with someone who basically has never played the deck because if you did, you'd realize the power that Trinket Mage provides as well as the trinkets themselves.
Realize that in legacy, for example, the UB Tezzeret lists also run Executioner's Capsule because it's a doom blade, sure, but hey...Doom Blade can't kill Emrakul like that capsule can. Just throwing that out there.
Also, with consistent recursion with Academy Ruins and Trading Post, it's constant utility drawback. That's awesome.
Not sure if things like Foundry, The Rack and Ring are good enough. I feel like they don't do enough and are terrible on their own. In Mantis list, Nihil Spellbomb is the only card that has a chance to not do anything but a lot of decks use the GY and if not it replaces itself. Capsule, Explosive, and Pithing Needle are useful more often than not when you topdeck them. Has anyone ever thought about adding more islands to the mana base and adding Vedalken Shackles as a 2 of though? I know the Tezz Seeker lists make good use of them. Shackles could be pretty disgusting with Trading Post and Miren, the Moaning Well.
Currently, I have 2 Chalice of the Void in the sideboard and 4 Thoughtseize main.
What do you guys prefer in the main as far as the combination of discard and chalice?
I'm kind of wanting to go 3 Chalice main and 4 Thoughtseize as well.
Also, I added a x1 Talisman of Indulgence to be able to have sunburst = 3 for Engineered Explosives if I absolutely have to. Only problem is...I'm having trouble trying to reason myself to have that in there when I can't think of any reasonable 3 drops. Maybe different Swords? Can you guys tell me?
Not sure if things like Foundry, The Rack and Ring are good enough. I feel like they don't do enough and are terrible on their own. In Mantis list, Nihil Spellbomb is the only card that has a chance to not do anything but a lot of decks use the GY and if not it replaces itself. Capsule, Explosive, and Pithing Needle are useful more often than not when you topdeck them. Has anyone ever thought about adding more islands to the mana base and adding Vedalken Shackles as a 2 of though? I know the Tezz Seeker lists make good use of them. Shackles could be pretty disgusting with Trading Post and Miren, the Moaning Well.
Also, I added a x1 Talisman of Indulgence to be able to have sunburst = 3 for Engineered Explosives if I absolutely have to. Only problem is...I'm having trouble trying to reason myself to have that in there when I can't think of any reasonable 3 drops. Maybe different Swords? Can you guys tell me?
Chalice main is a risky thing playing against unknown decks. It isn't like legacy where just dropping it on one is great against a bunch of decks. Modern decks tend to have a bit more of a curve and sometimes your opponent just won't draw the cards at that specific CMC and you have the chance of cutting off your own spells.
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Modern: Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
Not sure if things like Foundry, The Rack and Ring are good enough. I feel like they don't do enough and are terrible on their own. In Mantis list, Nihil Spellbomb is the only card that has a chance to not do anything but a lot of decks use the GY and if not it replaces itself. Capsule, Explosive, and Pithing Needle are useful more often than not when you topdeck them. Has anyone ever thought about adding more islands to the mana base and adding Vedalken Shackles as a 2 of though? I know the Tezz Seeker lists make good use of them. Shackles could be pretty disgusting with Trading Post and Miren, the Moaning Well.
Shackles is a powerful card.
Could work....do some testing against tier and let us know.
Been playing it for about a day and a half so far and it's working great. I love seeing it. It's a staple of the UR Tezz Seeker lists and I think it's great here too
I've thought about cutting the Thirst for Knowledge down to 2 so we can have our hand count low for Ensnaring Bridge, but I figured it can get low even with the Thirst for Knowledge if we really wanted to. I'm kind of wanting to up the Spellskite to 3.
Think 2 Thirst for Knowledge and 3 Spellskite is better?
I've thought about cutting the Thirst for Knowledge down to 2 so we can have our hand count low for Ensnaring Bridge, but I figured it can get low even with the Thirst for Knowledge if we really wanted to. I'm kind of wanting to up the Spellskite to 3.
Think 2 Thirst for Knowledge and 3 Spellskite is better?
I run 3 skites and 2 TfK at the moment. I guess this is mostly a meta-call. But Ive found TfK sometimes cluttering my hand in the past, early game. Its also not directly working on stabilizing the board, which Ive found our main concern since we're a powerful deck, yes, but a slow one. Dont get me wrong, its an amazing draw engine, but you have to feel "when" in the game does your build seem to need a lil' more power. If its early on: Skite, if its mid-to-late: TfK.
EDIT: I think you could save on life-loss by running a couple of River of tears instead of the full set of watery graves (& instead of drowned catacomb) and maybe one inquisition of kozilek instead of the 4th Thoughtseize, which I personnaly run SB. Just sayin'
I've thought about cutting the Thirst for Knowledge down to 2 so we can have our hand count low for Ensnaring Bridge, but I figured it can get low even with the Thirst for Knowledge if we really wanted to. I'm kind of wanting to up the Spellskite to 3.
Think 2 Thirst for Knowledge and 3 Spellskite is better?
I run 3 skites and 2 TfK at the moment. I guess this is mostly a meta-call. But Ive found TfK sometimes cluttering my hand in the past, early game. Its also not directly working on stabilizing the board, which Ive found our main concern since we're a powerful deck, yes, but a slow one. Dont get me wrong, its an amazing draw engine, but you have to feel "when" in the game does your build seem to need a lil' more power. If its early on: Skite, if its mid-to-late: TfK.
EDIT: I think you could save on life-loss by running a couple of River of tears instead of the full set of watery graves (& instead of drowned catacomb) and maybe one inquisition of kozilek instead of the 4th Thoughtseize, which I personnaly run SB. Just sayin'
I don't typically lose life on the Watery Graves since I usually get 2 in the opening at most, and even then I only shock when I have a turn 2 play. I love River of Tears, but that 1 of Drowned Catacomb is for a non-opening hand draw in which I already have either an Island or a Swamp anyways.
The playset of Thoughtseize is there because I know I can gain life pretty efficiently with the Trading Post (and Thopter Foundry when I did play it) and felt like I can afford the Thoughtseizes in the main. I just love being able to hit all targets instead of 3 cmc or less.
And lastly, I think you're right. I'm just gonna run 2 TfK and up the Spellskite to 3. I think it's gonna be a safer call since I'm expecting much aggro and Twin.
I appreciate the opinions though! Like I said, mine are always welcome.
Hi, I'm interested in playing this deck, it seems very interesting. About the Ensnaring Bridge... I know it is a very powerful card, but doesn't it goes against the also-powerful -1 Tezzeret ability, shutting down our own 5/5 dudes? Or is that -1 ability never used?
It is used, but it's all about timing and information. One of the crazy things about this deck is that it can switch from a beatdown, turn 4 indestructible 5/5 Darksteel Citadel off Tezz's -1 to a complete board lockdown from ensnaring bridge the next turn, building up to a lethal Tezz ultimate one or two turns later.
Also, you can sac the bridge to Trading post or Thopter foundry if you wanna unleash the beaters. Nota: you can also slowly chip at the opponent's life total by attacking with flying 1/1's (be it Thopters or Faeries or Inkmoths) "under the bridge" (when you have one card in hand, before you play it on your second main phase to lock back the board). And more. Real fun.
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Lovely! One thought:
1. A fourth trinket mage might come in handy, since it can effectively bring you back up to the 4th land (fetching a Citadel) after a pox, and also grabs a win-con in the Rack.
[Ive been talking about a Pox-tweak to my friends since day-1. /drools ]
EDIT: Also, maybe a Crucible of worlds package with at least a couple fetches, 1x ghost quarter and 1x tec edge would push the ressource denial one step further.
And a little gem of mine that has tested über (mean it) effectively as a one-of: Raven's crime
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Crucible is an awesome idea in a Pox build. The main concern of mine is Pox forces you to have a much lower curve and also double black mana, since you are blowing up your own lands. You will also be -1-ing Tezzeret a lot less, maybe the Rings of Brighthearth would be good in this build to allow more Tezzeret -4 wins.
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MTG Brewmaster - The fastest deck builder around (Please PM me with comments or problems!)
Modern: Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
Hmmmmm... Rings of brightheart really is a go-big[-on-activated-abilities]-or-go-home card. I don't know if a pox build would win by going big, rather than just «choking the life out of the opponent». I don't know, I don't feel it's something I would want to draw (not affecting the board immediately), when ressources may get so scarce.
EDIT: Shouldn't we rather dedicate that Rings slot to a second Crucible of worlds, and include more ghost quarters? This strategy mostly screws control and / or heavily multicolor decks, right. I'm worried Crucible doesn't do jack against faster decks. 1 SB and 1 MB split? I don't know... brainstorming.
On double black: already for Clique, I've included a singleton Sunken ruins.
Love the pox idea. As mentioned, Crucible package seems solid and the more I think about it, he's right about adding the Trinket Mage up to 4 so you can find the Darksteel Citadel if necessary, but also The Rack.
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I think you are underestimating Trading Post, saccing an artifact for a card draw is actually my least used mode on it. Lifegain against burn and getting your dead artifacts out of the graveyard are its primary uses. Also Ichor Wellspring is the epitome of durdle card, not trying to durdle with our Trading Posts.
Mox Opal really depends on the build. You need a large amount of artifacts to make it good, but going too hard on the artifacts can mean death to Stony Silence. Unless you can reliably get it online by turn 3 it isn't much more useful than a regular mana rock.
The Inkmoth interaction is sweet, but I don't think it is worth running unless you run 4. Rampant Ghost Quarters, Tec Edges, and 1 mana removal make it a risky play in today's Modern. If you get in 1 hit and then it dies you just wasted two Tezzeret triggers and got in no real damage.
I agree on the Tar Pits, probably bumping up to 3. We just don't want to miss too much on turn 1 discard effects or turn 3 or 4 sweepers and Tezzerets.
Modern:
Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
1) Finds the silver bullet
2) Is a body
3) Helps thin the deck
Without him we have to run:
4x Pithing Needle
4x Engineered Explosives
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Nihil Spellbomb
Not running him is like not running Green Sun Zenith in Legacy.
I can see making him the sideboard plan and running cliques in his place, but if you've played this deck enough...you'll realize he is necessary.
Running 3 maybe too many doe.
Heres my latest list:
2 Trinket Mage
2 Spellskite
1 Batterskull
Spells
2 Damnation
2 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Wrench Mind (will replace with Lili)
Planewalkers
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
2 Liliana of the Veil
Artifacts
4 Talisman of Dominance
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Pithing Needle
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 The Rack
1 Welding Jar
1 Thopter Foundry
2 Darksteel Citadel
2 Watery Grave
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Academy Ruins
1 Buried Ruin
2 Island
3 Darkslick Shores
2 River of Tears
2 Swamp
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Marsh Flats
1 Damnation
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Echoing Truth
2 Defense Grid
1 Spell Snare
1 Negate
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Torpor Orb
2 Extirpate
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Fulminator Mage
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Realize that in legacy, for example, the UB Tezzeret lists also run Executioner's Capsule because it's a doom blade, sure, but hey...Doom Blade can't kill Emrakul like that capsule can. Just throwing that out there.
Also, with consistent recursion with Academy Ruins and Trading Post, it's constant utility drawback. That's awesome.
I love the deck.
Streetmage: only two citadels?
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Maybe like this?
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Academy Ruins
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Darksteel Citadel
5 Island
4 Watery Grave
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Spellskite
3 Trinket Mage
Artifacts
4 Talisman of Dominance
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
1 Trading Post
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
Spells
2 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Damnation
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
For 16 islands
Never again will I doubt the thread/primer.
Currently, I have 2 Chalice of the Void in the sideboard and 4 Thoughtseize main.
What do you guys prefer in the main as far as the combination of discard and chalice?
I'm kind of wanting to go 3 Chalice main and 4 Thoughtseize as well.
Also, I added a x1 Talisman of Indulgence to be able to have sunburst = 3 for Engineered Explosives if I absolutely have to. Only problem is...I'm having trouble trying to reason myself to have that in there when I can't think of any reasonable 3 drops. Maybe different Swords? Can you guys tell me?
Shackles is a powerful card.
Could work....do some testing against tier and let us know.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Just a few from good Tier 1/2s
Chalice main is a risky thing playing against unknown decks. It isn't like legacy where just dropping it on one is great against a bunch of decks. Modern decks tend to have a bit more of a curve and sometimes your opponent just won't draw the cards at that specific CMC and you have the chance of cutting off your own spells.
Modern:
Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
Been playing it for about a day and a half so far and it's working great. I love seeing it. It's a staple of the UR Tezz Seeker lists and I think it's great here too
2 Spellskite
3 Trinket Mage
Planeswalkers (8)
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
Instants/Sorceries (9)
2 Damnation
3 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Thoughtseize
Artifacts (15)
4 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Batterskull
1 Trading Post
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Pithing Needle
3 Ensnaring Bridges
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Watery Grave
3 Darksteel Citadel
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Island
3 Swamp
3 Torpor Orb
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Extirpate
2 Defense Grid
2 Negate
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Damnation
1 Engineered Explosives
I've thought about cutting the Thirst for Knowledge down to 2 so we can have our hand count low for Ensnaring Bridge, but I figured it can get low even with the Thirst for Knowledge if we really wanted to. I'm kind of wanting to up the Spellskite to 3.
Think 2 Thirst for Knowledge and 3 Spellskite is better?
I run 3 skites and 2 TfK at the moment. I guess this is mostly a meta-call. But Ive found TfK sometimes cluttering my hand in the past, early game. Its also not directly working on stabilizing the board, which Ive found our main concern since we're a powerful deck, yes, but a slow one. Dont get me wrong, its an amazing draw engine, but you have to feel "when" in the game does your build seem to need a lil' more power. If its early on: Skite, if its mid-to-late: TfK.
EDIT: I think you could save on life-loss by running a couple of River of tears instead of the full set of watery graves (& instead of drowned catacomb) and maybe one inquisition of kozilek instead of the 4th Thoughtseize, which I personnaly run SB. Just sayin'
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
I don't typically lose life on the Watery Graves since I usually get 2 in the opening at most, and even then I only shock when I have a turn 2 play. I love River of Tears, but that 1 of Drowned Catacomb is for a non-opening hand draw in which I already have either an Island or a Swamp anyways.
The playset of Thoughtseize is there because I know I can gain life pretty efficiently with the Trading Post (and Thopter Foundry when I did play it) and felt like I can afford the Thoughtseizes in the main. I just love being able to hit all targets instead of 3 cmc or less.
And lastly, I think you're right. I'm just gonna run 2 TfK and up the Spellskite to 3. I think it's gonna be a safer call since I'm expecting much aggro and Twin.
I appreciate the opinions though! Like I said, mine are always welcome.
Also, you can sac the bridge to Trading post or Thopter foundry if you wanna unleash the beaters. Nota: you can also slowly chip at the opponent's life total by attacking with flying 1/1's (be it Thopters or Faeries or Inkmoths) "under the bridge" (when you have one card in hand, before you play it on your second main phase to lock back the board). And more. Real fun.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Also added a dimir signet and mox opal.
Waiting on the paycheck to add the 3rd Liliana.
Played some games on mtgo practice room, still needs more testing.
3 Trinket Mage
2 Spellskite
Spells
3 Smallpox
2 Damnation
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thirst for Knowledge
Planewalkers
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Liliana of the Veil
Artifacts
4 Talisman of Dominance
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 The Rack
1 Mox Opal
1 Thopter Foundry
1 Dimir Signet
2 Darksteel Citadel
2 Watery Grave
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Academy Ruins
1 Buried Ruin
2 Island
4 Darkslick Shores
2 River of Tears
3 Swamp
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Marsh Flats
1 Damnation
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Echoing Truth
2 Defense Grid
1 Spell Snare
1 Negate
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Torpor Orb
2 Extirpate
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Fulminator Mage
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
1. A fourth trinket mage might come in handy, since it can effectively bring you back up to the 4th land (fetching a Citadel) after a pox, and also grabs a win-con in the Rack.
[Ive been talking about a Pox-tweak to my friends since day-1. /drools ]
EDIT: Also, maybe a Crucible of worlds package with at least a couple fetches, 1x ghost quarter and 1x tec edge would push the ressource denial one step further.
And a little gem of mine that has tested über (mean it) effectively as a one-of: Raven's crime
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Modern:
Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
EDIT: Shouldn't we rather dedicate that Rings slot to a second Crucible of worlds, and include more ghost quarters? This strategy mostly screws control and / or heavily multicolor decks, right. I'm worried Crucible doesn't do jack against faster decks. 1 SB and 1 MB split? I don't know... brainstorming.
On double black: already for Clique, I've included a singleton Sunken ruins.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.