so right now, I've tested the deck and seem that I think for my meta, Torpor Orbs may be necessary for main board. What to do you guys think I should cut to make room for maybe a single Torpor Orb?
Also, how do you guys beat U/G Infect? I tested 4 games against it and beat it 1/4 times. That's by Thoughtseizing his threat and digging for Bridge, but that still seems pretty slow.
On the discussion of Thirst, I think to me its biggest appeal is that its an instant and I can do it end of turn.
It's funny that we like it for control match-ups, but I've been finding myself in the position of having a Defense Grid out and not being able to Thirst at their end of their turn.
I do like them when I have to board in Torpor Orb...so they help find answers when Trinket Mage gets turned off.
Leads me to the question, what do you guys think of Read the Bones in place of Thirst or as a 1/1 split?
Getting to scry 2 before drawing is huge...2 life kinda sucks doe.
I also play infect lol. Spellskite kills infect's pumping ability, but infect sideboards artifact destruction. So, no kidding, Lili's edict, Pox sac effect, plus land destruction (to get rid of Inkmoth Nexus), plus crucible, and bridge, could make that match-up favorable, methinks. Also: Bitterblossom also chumps all day (voided by rancor).
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
if I do put in, for example, 3 mainboard Torpor Orbs, instead of Trinket Mages (since they get turned off), I think the Artificer's Intuition will seem like a decent replacement. Especially if you have dead artifacts that don't do much in a particular game that you can pitch to get other 1 mana artifacts.
But I think with a single Torpor Orb, the 3 main board Trinket Mages should still be fine.
Stony Silence needs to get ripped by one of our discards, I also have Spell Snare in the sideboard almost exclusively for Stony and Dark Confidant. Once resolved it is time for the beatdown plan, which makes your opponent feel real silly after they play 2 Stonies and if they can't deal with 5/5 Citadels. UB has nothing to kill it (since Engineered Explosives is turned off).
Playing more than 1 Orb maindeck, you better really know it will be amazing against a majority of the field in your meta. The look on your opponents faces is probably worth it.
Also Chalice on 1 will make the Infect player cry. Nature's Claim is the most common removal for it since they don't care about life, just watch out for the rogue Qasali Pridemage or Creeping Corrosion.
EDIT: Also Read the Bones, Life Loss, only looks 1 card deeper, sorcery speed, don't like it. I think instant is the best part about Thirst.
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I'm also playing a PTQ this weekend on Sunday in Austin, TX. It seems that the majority of players are going some variant of Pod or some variant of Twin.
Either way, I know there is still a variety, so I may just put single Torpor Orb main so that I can find it with a 1-of Tez the Seeker or Tez Bolas +1 ability.
The Stony Silence I was wondering how to deal with once it resolves. I guess solid beat down seems fine, but what's the consensus on dealing with it turn 2? Spell Snares?
Pod and Twin don't like Spellskite neither. So you better gear up with them. I wouldn't ever put more than 1 Torpor orb main deck, and up to two more sideboard. Fetching it from Big Tezz is a good idea. Fabricate is slow, but could work also, if you don't expect much pressure.
Stony silence: Spell snare it is. You want something like:
T1 Thoughtseize, T2 Talisman into More discard, Trinket or Spellsnare mana up.
Then Liliana and Tezz probably are our meanest engines and they aren't even artifacts so... Just play safe by keeping one U mana up.
EDIT: Btw, if blue mana is critical to get an early spellsnare off your talisman (while keeping on ramping), the UW talisman could prove better than the BR one. Also, do you want to post an updated list of yours so we can give and up-to-date feedback?
Pod and Twin don't like Spellskite neither. So you better gear up with them. I wouldn't ever put more than 1 Torpor orb main deck, and up to two more sideboard. Fetching it from Big Tezz is a good idea. Fabricate is slow, but could work also, if you don't expect much pressure.
Stony silence: Spell snare it is. You want something like:
T1 Thoughtseize, T2 Talisman into More discard, Trinket or Spellsnare mana up.
Then Liliana and Tezz probably are our meanest engines and they aren't even artifacts so... Just play safe by keeping one U mana up.
EDIT: Btw, if blue mana is critical to get an early spellsnare off your talisman (while keeping on ramping), the UW talisman could prove better than the BR one. Also, do you want to post an updated list of yours so we can give and up-to-date feedback?
Also I've never seen a single person play around Spell Snare. They see the Talisman and want to slam down the Stony for awesome value right now after seeing 0 counterspells in Game 1. Pretty safe to say they don't have it in hand if they don't play it ASAP since they are worried about discard.
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June 4, 2014: Added Bitterblossom and The Rack descriptions, added land explanations to the main post
After you guys run a few more events with the Pox build I'll add some of that in there as well.
Did some practice yesterday on MTGO for the PTQ. I really liked The Rack since it turns Trinket Mage into a win-con, gets around Leyline of Sanctity, I think it was streetMage who first ran this? I think it is a good idea.
Went something like 5-0 in 2-mans. Academy Ruins + Trading Post together fought ridiculously well against my Twin opponent's Ancient Grudges. He even had a Splinter Twin'd Snapcaster Mage with multiple bolts and Trading Post lifegain kept me in the game, the card is so good. Also I have not regretted my 2 of Academy Ruins.
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I look forward to seeing how the Pox/Rack variant goes. If it is doing this well, I might consider changing it last minute for the PTQ this Sunday. I'm also considering upping the Academy Ruins to 2 after all, but we'll see.
Quick question, do you guys bring in Defense Grids against mono U Tron?
This match up is very annoying..
And they run 100x counterspells and it just seems like they always have an answer.
Whether its O-Stone, Cyclonic Rift, Repeal, Mindslaver.
@Mantis:
Not sure if I asked before, but do you know of a way to get the replay videos from mtgo onto this site...I think I've seen some people using VLC media player/YouTube.
I think a video section would really help people learn the subtle intricacies of UB Tezz.
I wish mtgo would allow us to download and save them.
Quick question, do you guys bring in Defense Grids against mono U Tron?
This match up is very annoying...esp because of Repeal.
And they run 100x counterspells
They actually don't play any hard counters, they lean on 4 Remand, 4 Condescend and usually a 1 of Spell Burst. I've dumped the D Grids for Duress in the sideboard, which means I can side into 6 discard spells and 2 Cliques, I feel the value of knowing what counterspell to play around lets you beat them much easier. Remember in this matchup we are the beatdown, so try to get in all the damage you can rather than trying to lock them.
Also, I always look up lists on http://mtgtop8.com/ when I'm having trouble against a deck to see what to play around and be worried about.
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In the Pox build, none of you guys would feel comfortable really going for a turn 2 Pox, right? You're only poxing basically after Crucible of Worlds or mana rocks have hit the board, yes?
Tough call. I would only if I know I have the perfect hand to go with it (like a 2nd and 3rd mana source, a Liliana or Trinket mage and Tezz; and/or (somehow) a bitterblossom on the field already) AND if I know it'll hurt my opponent way more. But you're right, I usually keep it for T3. Or keep it for later, picking the best timing to break the symetry [im already hellbent, or got plenty of mana (4-5-6); or he has only one really important/good creature).
EDIT: Yeah, the pox play usually works well with the classic opening of T1 Disruption or trinket, T2 Talisman and Disruption or Trinket.
In the Pox build, none of you guys would feel comfortable really going for a turn 2 Pox, right? You're only poxing basically after Crucible of Worlds or mana rocks have hit the board, yes?
Its most effective I've seen when you're on the play:
Against Storm:
Turn 2 Pox, keeps them off the 2nd land they need to cast a potential Electromancer/Ascension (time-walking them).
Against Pod:
If they t1 mana dork. You can t2 Pox and clear their board (time-walking them).
Against Living End:
I was on the draw, but t2 to keep them off the third land to cast the cascade spell.
But this was only after discarding away one of their Spirit Guides.
Against Tron:
If they t1 tron land.
You basically have to carefully measure your loss versus theirs.
It also depends on your opening 7 and how you can recover.
So my friend has Angel Pod and I decided to run the Pox variant with 2 Bitterblossoms, 2 Smallpoxes, Ghostquarters + Crucible....it's very much resilient. Raven's Crime did some work.
I actually recommend going this route over the other variant right now in a Pod-filled environment. It's strong.
Hey guys. Yesterday I just thought of something scary. I haven't seen any of these around, lately, but I'm still wondering how we can win the GW Hatebears match-up? I recall having such a hard time, last time I playtested (un-poxed) again my friend who used to have one. Have any of you guys have advice or idea or tech that could be of use against that match-up?
Talking to myself here: Raven's crime and Liliana hate Loxodon Smiter. Against Thalia, I guess we can board in Spell snares (which I dont run anymore), same goes for Gaddock Teeg (what a pain in the.) and Qasali Pridemage. Wow they're very well geared up against us, uh. I guess Thoughtseize is also key here, to get rid of those back-breaking creatures before they hit the field. Ah, interestingly enough, Smallpox can help you get rid of one of said bears (though it's probably just the Noble Hierarch that's gonna get sacc'ed). Well, I got to playtest more against that deck.
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
I've been doing fine against mono-W hatebears, Spell Snare and a Needle on Aether Vial are solid to lock them out long enough to get our deck moving.
As for GW, Qasali Pridemage is probably the most annoying card, kills our stuff and Exalted gets through Ensnaring Bridge. I haven't seen a list with Gaddock Teeg personally, he's not very good against a lot of Tier 1 decks, so I don't think he's really worth playing around, someone might run 1 maybe 2 as a personal thing.
As for Pox, it is somewhat dangerous, since they run the whole Arbiter / Mindcensor + Ghost Quarter combo, but could work in the right situations.
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Ensnaring Bridge is the main answer to Wurmcoil, Engineered Explosives is an efficient answer to the tokens. Chump block + saccing to Trading Post can stop the lifelink. Darksteel Citadel as a 5/5 can chump block indefinitely, but the lifelink can be a problem, it is effective against the tokens though.
EDIT: Added a quick little description about the Pox package.
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Also, how do you guys beat U/G Infect? I tested 4 games against it and beat it 1/4 times. That's by Thoughtseizing his threat and digging for Bridge, but that still seems pretty slow.
What about Stony Silence?
Thanks!
It's funny that we like it for control match-ups, but I've been finding myself in the position of having a Defense Grid out and not being able to Thirst at their end of their turn.
I do like them when I have to board in Torpor Orb...so they help find answers when Trinket Mage gets turned off.
Leads me to the question, what do you guys think of Read the Bones in place of Thirst or as a 1/1 split?
Getting to scry 2 before drawing is huge...2 life kinda sucks doe.
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Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
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OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
But I think with a single Torpor Orb, the 3 main board Trinket Mages should still be fine.
Playing more than 1 Orb maindeck, you better really know it will be amazing against a majority of the field in your meta. The look on your opponents faces is probably worth it.
Also Chalice on 1 will make the Infect player cry. Nature's Claim is the most common removal for it since they don't care about life, just watch out for the rogue Qasali Pridemage or Creeping Corrosion.
EDIT: Also Read the Bones, Life Loss, only looks 1 card deeper, sorcery speed, don't like it. I think instant is the best part about Thirst.
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???
Legacy:
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Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
Either way, I know there is still a variety, so I may just put single Torpor Orb main so that I can find it with a 1-of Tez the Seeker or Tez Bolas +1 ability.
The Stony Silence I was wondering how to deal with once it resolves. I guess solid beat down seems fine, but what's the consensus on dealing with it turn 2? Spell Snares?
Stony silence: Spell snare it is. You want something like:
T1 Thoughtseize, T2 Talisman into More discard, Trinket or Spellsnare mana up.
Then Liliana and Tezz probably are our meanest engines and they aren't even artifacts so... Just play safe by keeping one U mana up.
EDIT: Btw, if blue mana is critical to get an early spellsnare off your talisman (while keeping on ramping), the UW talisman could prove better than the BR one. Also, do you want to post an updated list of yours so we can give and up-to-date feedback?
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Also I've never seen a single person play around Spell Snare. They see the Talisman and want to slam down the Stony for awesome value right now after seeing 0 counterspells in Game 1. Pretty safe to say they don't have it in hand if they don't play it ASAP since they are worried about discard.
Modern:
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???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
After you guys run a few more events with the Pox build I'll add some of that in there as well.
Did some practice yesterday on MTGO for the PTQ. I really liked The Rack since it turns Trinket Mage into a win-con, gets around Leyline of Sanctity, I think it was streetMage who first ran this? I think it is a good idea.
Went something like 5-0 in 2-mans. Academy Ruins + Trading Post together fought ridiculously well against my Twin opponent's Ancient Grudges. He even had a Splinter Twin'd Snapcaster Mage with multiple bolts and Trading Post lifegain kept me in the game, the card is so good. Also I have not regretted my 2 of Academy Ruins.
Haven't tested Bitterblossom yet.
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???
Legacy:
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Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
This match up is very annoying..
And they run 100x counterspells and it just seems like they always have an answer.
Whether its O-Stone, Cyclonic Rift, Repeal, Mindslaver.
@Mantis:
Not sure if I asked before, but do you know of a way to get the replay videos from mtgo onto this site...I think I've seen some people using VLC media player/YouTube.
I think a video section would really help people learn the subtle intricacies of UB Tezz.
I wish mtgo would allow us to download and save them.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
They actually don't play any hard counters, they lean on 4 Remand, 4 Condescend and usually a 1 of Spell Burst. I've dumped the D Grids for Duress in the sideboard, which means I can side into 6 discard spells and 2 Cliques, I feel the value of knowing what counterspell to play around lets you beat them much easier. Remember in this matchup we are the beatdown, so try to get in all the damage you can rather than trying to lock them.
Also, I always look up lists on http://mtgtop8.com/ when I'm having trouble against a deck to see what to play around and be worried about.
Modern:
Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
EDIT: Yeah, the pox play usually works well with the classic opening of T1 Disruption or trinket, T2 Talisman and Disruption or Trinket.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Its most effective I've seen when you're on the play:
Against Storm:
Turn 2 Pox, keeps them off the 2nd land they need to cast a potential Electromancer/Ascension (time-walking them).
Against Pod:
If they t1 mana dork. You can t2 Pox and clear their board (time-walking them).
Against Living End:
I was on the draw, but t2 to keep them off the third land to cast the cascade spell.
But this was only after discarding away one of their Spirit Guides.
Against Tron:
If they t1 tron land.
You basically have to carefully measure your loss versus theirs.
It also depends on your opening 7 and how you can recover.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
I actually recommend going this route over the other variant right now in a Pod-filled environment. It's strong.
Talking to myself here: Raven's crime and Liliana hate Loxodon Smiter. Against Thalia, I guess we can board in Spell snares (which I dont run anymore), same goes for Gaddock Teeg (what a pain in the.) and Qasali Pridemage. Wow they're very well geared up against us, uh. I guess Thoughtseize is also key here, to get rid of those back-breaking creatures before they hit the field. Ah, interestingly enough, Smallpox can help you get rid of one of said bears (though it's probably just the Noble Hierarch that's gonna get sacc'ed). Well, I got to playtest more against that deck.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
As for GW, Qasali Pridemage is probably the most annoying card, kills our stuff and Exalted gets through Ensnaring Bridge. I haven't seen a list with Gaddock Teeg personally, he's not very good against a lot of Tier 1 decks, so I don't think he's really worth playing around, someone might run 1 maybe 2 as a personal thing.
As for Pox, it is somewhat dangerous, since they run the whole Arbiter / Mindcensor + Ghost Quarter combo, but could work in the right situations.
Modern:
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???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
I'm still not 100% certain on what to sleeve up for the PTQ this weekend. I go back and forth between the Pox variant and typical UB Tezzeret.
Regardless, I'm not sure Smallpox should stay. Plus, I'm not sure the Raven's Crime without a Life from the Loam is very good, even as a singleton.
I do agree that Crucible of Worlds is amazing, especially if you keep Ghost Quartering them into oblivion.
EDIT: Added a quick little description about the Pox package.
Modern:
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Legacy:
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Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black