Have you tested it, I can't imagine that would perform with any consistency. There's a pretty good chance you'll mill yourself before you can possibly mill your opponent with this deck, and if you're managing to generate that much mana you can already win with Fatestitcher. BSZ does nothing for you except fill up slots better suited for cantrips/removal, it's a really really bad option. I know you said you'd mostly use it as a win condition rather than a draw engine, but my point is that it's so expensive the 'draw engine' aspect of it lacks viability. It's just an all-around terrible card in this deck. If you're looking for an alternate finisher that only really works while the combo is already in motion grapeshot/banefire would probably work, but honestly you're better off just leaving them out for disruption, since they're pretty much redundant.
I've tested it, and yes, you need multiple Ascendancies online, but as long as you diligently produce mana with triggers on the stack, you can easily hit 55 before milling out.
Yes, Grapeshot/Banefire are other options to win outside of combat. Now, what if my opponent has an arbitrarily high amount of life? Granted, the game shouldn't get to that state, but I was jusy pointing out that I often find the singleton Treasure Cruise redundant, and considering giving myself alternate outs. creatures are fragile enough that I don't like relying on the combat step to win.
If you're that worried about your opponent hitting infinite/arbitrary life sideboard BSZ, you really shouldn't run it main deck though since it barely does anything by itself. If you really want a mill option in your SB just run Silent Departure, thanks to Flashback it even doubles as a 'cantrip' for the purposes of the combo.
So i have cut back to straight jeskai colors, because it just saves so much life. Also, I am back to my first love, seeker of the way in the sideboard. I used to have 4x delver, but I cut him to two, then finally replaced him with wind zendikon. I really like the zendikon because it is a slightly worse version of fatestitcher for the combo, and a slightly worse delver on offense. I find I have different packages to side in and out each game: I side out my removal for seekers because I need a life pad, pyromancers if i need blockers, and zendikons if i need to race with the combo. I can also side in counters or wear//tears as needed.
Over all the deck feels very fluid. I like how the seekers are proactive and how it seems to be a 2 cmc baneslayer. The zendikons are just extra (slightly worse) fatestitchers or (slightly worse) delvers as needed. Young pyromancer is crazy as usual, and giest just catches some decks with their pants down, especially when you can clear out blockers with cheap interaction/cantrips.
I think a very important part of this deck is knowing your role. Sometimes you need to just go for their throat, other times you need to play various types of board or stack control. This will take practice, because it is much harder to play IRL than I initially expected.
I have been playing a decent amount against GW Hatebears recently, and doing pretty well too. Here is the list I'm running currently (I don't have access to all the fetches I would like)
I like the one Young Pyromancer Peezy in the main as anti-fizzle insurance. One game I was playing I was trying to combo through a Thalia, and I found a pyro mid-way through the combo. I did end up fizzling because thalia is a pain, but the 4-5 tokens that I made were enough to hold down the fort until I could go for the combo again the following turn. I swapped out the combo for the midrange geist + pyro plan in games 2 and 3 and it really helped the match-up. I also really like pyroclasm against GW Hatebears (and in theory against delver, robots, pod maybe). I'm not sold on the other 'fluff' in the board. Its mostly there because I own it. Thoughts? Suggestions?
So i have cut back to straight jeskai colors, because it just saves so much life. Also, I am back to my first love, seeker of the way in the sideboard. I used to have 4x delver, but I cut him to two, then finally replaced him with wind zendikon. I really like the zendikon because it is a slightly worse version of fatestitcher for the combo, and a slightly worse delver on offense. I find I have different packages to side in and out each game: I side out my removal for seekers because I need a life pad, pyromancers if i need blockers, and zendikons if i need to race with the combo. I can also side in counters or wear//tears as needed.
Over all the deck feels very fluid. I like how the seekers are proactive and how it seems to be a 2 cmc baneslayer. The zendikons are just extra (slightly worse) fatestitchers or (slightly worse) delvers as needed. Young pyromancer is crazy as usual, and giest just catches some decks with their pants down, especially when you can clear out blockers with cheap interaction/cantrips.
I think a very important part of this deck is knowing your role. Sometimes you need to just go for their throat, other times you need to play various types of board or stack control. This will take practice, because it is much harder to play IRL than I initially expected.
Firstly, the land seems messy, but I'm assuming you dont have Tarns because of its stupid price.
Seeker of the way seems cool, but realistically i feel its great in matchups like burn and delver, and they'll just kill it if you cast it turn 2. I'd rather have more cantrips probably. Running only 2 Dig Through time i think is a huge flaw. DTT is definitely the best card in the deck and 4 is a must imo. Izzet Charm is also very important too, and only 2 is also hindering; it works as a soft counter, removal, and drawing 2 and discarding 2 is probably its best mode. Cutting 4 thought scour is also bad for the combo.
The thing i so like is some Wind Zelkion over some Convlaves. Its only 1 mana instead of 2, and having concvlave come in tapped is super annoying even on turn 1 sometimes.
I might be wrong since its not really about pure comboing, but thats just my thoughts. I never liked the Peezy plan because he usually dies fast, even after getting like 2 or 3 elementals, we dont have the racing power of something like delver. Yeah Peezy can get tons of tokens if Jeskai ascendancy is in play, but the pure combo pieces are just better in that spot anyways
It's crazy to read about people having problems fizzling. I've been playing with no Cruise, and 4 maindeck Pyromancers and haven't actually fizzled once comboing once yet. So i don't know if i'm just getting super lucky or what.
On Pyromancer i gotta say he is a house in this deck. If he eats removal, then fine, that's one less Bolt for Conclave, and Fatestitcher. If he manages to stick around and make even just a few tokens, winning just got waaaay easier. If you have a few creatures out, you only need to chain together 5-7 spells to swing in for lethal, which is pretty easy to accomplish.
Also, i've just been calling this deck "Ascendancy" nice, simple, clean, and to the point.
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Not just the Tendo King, the power of the Galactic Leyline surpasses that of the Tempa Emperor, No!, It's magnificent power is even greater than that!
So reading Jim Davis' SCG article about the Geist Delver SB plan
I saw this which confused me " You can use Fatestitcher as a Rishadian Port to tap down your opponent's lands both on their upkeep, and then on your draw step if you want to go off that turn. This can keep them off of Abrupt Decay/countermagic and give you a window to go off."
Now am I wrong but Unearth is a sorcery so it can only be cast during our main phases correct? and at EOT it gets exiled so there is no way to have Fatestitcher around for both their upkeep and our draw step correct?
So reading Jim Davis' SCG article about the Geist Delver SB plan
I saw this which confused me " You can use Fatestitcher as a Rishadian Port to tap down your opponent's lands both on their upkeep, and then on your draw step if you want to go off that turn. This can keep them off of Abrupt Decay/countermagic and give you a window to go off."
Now am I wrong but Unearth is a sorcery so it can only be cast during our main phases correct? and at EOT it gets exiled so there is no way to have Fatestitcher around for both their upkeep and our draw step correct?
He also talks about hardcasting Fatestitchers against controlling opponents, so that's where the using Fatestitchers as Ports comments come from.
(Me, I personally think that all hardcasting Fatestitchers does is get them killed and/or give them openings to land bombs while you're nearly tapped out. And since Fatestitchers can't swing worth a darn, that's part of why I prefer Wind Zendikons instead.)
Hard casting vs pod isn't that uncommon since they only have Decay as removal.
As to the guy that never fizzles, first I want to ask how many matches hhave u played with the deck? Also it depends on what you are playing against. Vs non interactive opponents it's easy, but making sure u go off in the middle of bolts, paths, and counter magic is very important. Some times u need to go off at instant speed. I just see a turn 2 Pyro as an inferior plan to sculpting your hand.
Idk, travis woo has that build but I'm sticking to the no token plan. Also this build is having actual good results so it's hard not to go this way
I've played about 10 matches, which is admittedly not that many. It's not really my favorite deck at the end of the day, and i'm mostly just playing Ritual Gifts every time, all the time, but this deck seemed right up my alley, play style wise, so i figured I'd give it a shot. Now I'm not saying i never lost with the deck, but if i ever got the chance to go for the kill, it got there. Against anything with a reasonable amount of disruption i never actually got the chance to try and go off. Playing against someone who knows the deck, and has some disruption gets waaay harder. IMO this deck isn't as resilient as people are making it out to be. At the end of the day you still need 2(more realistically 3) engines resolved to go off, which can be pretty hard to do against someone who knows whats up..
Young Pyromancer has been incredibly strong in the deck though. And i'll stick to my guns there. It just gives the opponent something else to worry about. The combo here can actually be pretty easy to disrupt, so Pyromancer gives them 1 more thing they need to deal with asap. this not only spreads there disruption thinner, but also makes their choices a lot harder to make. "Do i Bolt this Pyromancer, or let it get out of control, and save this Bolt for Fatestitcher when he tries to combo?" Also like i said, if you do manage to get a few tokens before comboing it saves you literally 5+ spells you would normally have to chain together. It's a lot easier to kill with 4 5/5s, than 2 10/10s.
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Not just the Tendo King, the power of the Galactic Leyline surpasses that of the Tempa Emperor, No!, It's magnificent power is even greater than that!
3-1 daily on MTGO recently on MTG Goldfish using Geist plan on SB
They changed the title of the Deck to Sticher Storm, which I hate lol. The deck isnt slave to Fatesticher to win, relys on Jeskai Ascendancy game 1, and has nothing to do with storm besides its a combo deck
Wind zendikon is the real deal. I like the card much better than faerie conclave on the combo turn. For this reason alone I would run it, but in addition, it also is a psuedo-delver if you need to attack, and a the rest of the copies are easily sideboarded to bring in for plenty of matchups.
I keep reading posts from people that have played the deck 10 matches or 20 matches and giving their opinion about how to play it. Seems a little foolish... I've got in somewhere around 250 matches with the deck in various builds starting with the Black/Pardee Wish version. Now I'm not telling anyone what to do (other than go playtest more and type less), but I can say that if you haven't played the deck a significant amount more than 10-20 matches you are likely missing the feel of when to go off. You shouldn't be forcing the combo into a hand full of open mana.... You don't need to be at 20 life either, only 1. So how/why wouldn't 3 bolts/3 path be enough to get to turn 5, 6 or even later when the opponent has tried to play a few things is low on mana and you go then? You are still a control deck in this version, you have counter spells and other removal beyond those 6...
I keep reading posts from people that have played the deck 10 matches or 20 matches and giving their opinion about how to play it. Seems a little foolish... I've got in somewhere around 250 matches with the deck in various builds starting with the Black/Pardee Wish version. Now I'm not telling anyone what to do (other than go playtest more and type less), but I can say that if you haven't played the deck a significant amount more than 10-20 matches you are likely missing the feel of when to go off. You shouldn't be forcing the combo into a hand full of open mana.... You don't need to be at 20 life either, only 1. So how/why wouldn't 3 bolts/3 path be enough to get to turn 5, 6 or even later when the opponent has tried to play a few things is low on mana and you go then? You are still a control deck in this version, you have counter spells and other removal beyond those 6...
What do you think about 3 Remands vs the new 2 Remands 1 Peek. ALso what about Seachrome Coast vs another Hallowed Fountain?
Wind zendikon is the real deal. I like the card much better than faerie conclave on the combo turn. For this reason alone I would run it, but in addition, it also is a psuedo-delver if you need to attack, and a the rest of the copies are easily sideboarded to bring in for plenty of matchups.
What are you guys replacing Wind zendikon with? Conclave? if so, how many. I dont get this because conclave is a mana producing card which means if you are cutting 1 or 2 conclaves, then your missing 2 lands from your deck which means worse consistency of turn 3 land drops. On top of that, you are setting your lands up for destruction unless you are casting Wind Zendikon the turn you combo off, which im still trying to understand how more cantrips or removal (or whatever you are replacing) isnt just better?
Ive been cutting 2x lightning bolts for wind zendikons. My local meta is overrun with spell based combo so there isnt really much danger, ive even been contemplating cutting bolt for zendikon entirely. The thing is, this deck is so customizable that you could cut a remand or two instead if you had a lot of agro, or something like a bolt and an izzit charm for something like SCG open or whatever. 4 belong in the 75, no question (i find they are much, much better than delver). I just like having access to a couple of them game one as a sort of 'preboard hedge'.
Because Im playing zendikon, ive cut 2x faerie conclave for a celestial colonnade and a steam vents. I like that this gives me slightly faster mana and colors. I never expect to combo with colonnade; I mainly just see it as a U/W dual with (very slight) late game upside.
Went 3-1 at modern fnm. I ran Jim Davis' list for the most part. I'll post a full report later. Deck felt good, I need to improve with it, but felt strong.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Yes, Grapeshot/Banefire are other options to win outside of combat. Now, what if my opponent has an arbitrarily high amount of life? Granted, the game shouldn't get to that state, but I was jusy pointing out that I often find the singleton Treasure Cruise redundant, and considering giving myself alternate outs. creatures are fragile enough that I don't like relying on the combat step to win.
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Thought Scour
4 Serum Visions
4 Fatestitcher
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Izzet Charm
2 Dig Through Time
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
3 Faerie Conclave
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Treasure Cruise
3 Mana Leak
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wind Zendikon
3 Young Pyromancer
1 Swan Song
1 Pact of Negation
1 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Dispel
4 Seeker of the Way
2 Wind Zendikon
Over all the deck feels very fluid. I like how the seekers are proactive and how it seems to be a 2 cmc baneslayer. The zendikons are just extra (slightly worse) fatestitchers or (slightly worse) delvers as needed. Young pyromancer is crazy as usual, and giest just catches some decks with their pants down, especially when you can clear out blockers with cheap interaction/cantrips.
I think a very important part of this deck is knowing your role. Sometimes you need to just go for their throat, other times you need to play various types of board or stack control. This will take practice, because it is much harder to play IRL than I initially expected.
1x celestial colonnade
3x dig through time
4x faerie conclave
4x fatestitcher
4x flooded strand
4x gitaxian probe
1x hallowed fountain
4x island
4x izzet charm
4x jeskai ascendancy
3x lightning bolt
1x mountain
2x path to exile
1x plains
1x polluted delta
3x remand
1x sacred foundry
1x scalding tarn
4x serum visions
2x steam vents
4x thought scour
2x treasure cruise
1x young pyromancer
1x Batterskull
1x engineered explosives
3x geist of saint traft
1x grapeshot
2x pyroclasm
2x swan song
2x wear // tear
3x young pyromancer
I like the one
Young PyromancerPeezy in the main as anti-fizzle insurance. One game I was playing I was trying to combo through a Thalia, and I found a pyro mid-way through the combo. I did end up fizzling because thalia is a pain, but the 4-5 tokens that I made were enough to hold down the fort until I could go for the combo again the following turn. I swapped out the combo for the midrange geist + pyro plan in games 2 and 3 and it really helped the match-up. I also really like pyroclasm against GW Hatebears (and in theory against delver, robots, pod maybe). I'm not sold on the other 'fluff' in the board. Its mostly there because I own it. Thoughts? Suggestions?Firstly, the land seems messy, but I'm assuming you dont have Tarns because of its stupid price.
Seeker of the way seems cool, but realistically i feel its great in matchups like burn and delver, and they'll just kill it if you cast it turn 2. I'd rather have more cantrips probably. Running only 2 Dig Through time i think is a huge flaw. DTT is definitely the best card in the deck and 4 is a must imo. Izzet Charm is also very important too, and only 2 is also hindering; it works as a soft counter, removal, and drawing 2 and discarding 2 is probably its best mode. Cutting 4 thought scour is also bad for the combo.
The thing i so like is some Wind Zelkion over some Convlaves. Its only 1 mana instead of 2, and having concvlave come in tapped is super annoying even on turn 1 sometimes.
I might be wrong since its not really about pure comboing, but thats just my thoughts. I never liked the Peezy plan because he usually dies fast, even after getting like 2 or 3 elementals, we dont have the racing power of something like delver. Yeah Peezy can get tons of tokens if Jeskai ascendancy is in play, but the pure combo pieces are just better in that spot anyways
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
On Pyromancer i gotta say he is a house in this deck. If he eats removal, then fine, that's one less Bolt for Conclave, and Fatestitcher. If he manages to stick around and make even just a few tokens, winning just got waaaay easier. If you have a few creatures out, you only need to chain together 5-7 spells to swing in for lethal, which is pretty easy to accomplish.
Also, i've just been calling this deck "Ascendancy" nice, simple, clean, and to the point.
1 Seachrome Coast
4 Faerie Conclave
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Snow-Covered Island
4 Fatestitcher
Spells
4 Jeskai Ascendancy
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Thought Scour
1 Peek
4 Dig Through Time
1 Treasure Cruise
2 Remand
4 Izzet Charm
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
3 Gifts Ungiven
1 Unburial Rites
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Swan Song
1 Dispel
1 Gigadrowse
1 Negate
2 Wear // Tear
3 Timely Reinforcements
I saw this which confused me " You can use Fatestitcher as a Rishadian Port to tap down your opponent's lands both on their upkeep, and then on your draw step if you want to go off that turn. This can keep them off of Abrupt Decay/countermagic and give you a window to go off."
Now am I wrong but Unearth is a sorcery so it can only be cast during our main phases correct? and at EOT it gets exiled so there is no way to have Fatestitcher around for both their upkeep and our draw step correct?
The article can be found here: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29901_The-Ole-Bait-And-Switch.html
He also talks about hardcasting Fatestitchers against controlling opponents, so that's where the using Fatestitchers as Ports comments come from.
(Me, I personally think that all hardcasting Fatestitchers does is get them killed and/or give them openings to land bombs while you're nearly tapped out. And since Fatestitchers can't swing worth a darn, that's part of why I prefer Wind Zendikons instead.)
As to the guy that never fizzles, first I want to ask how many matches hhave u played with the deck? Also it depends on what you are playing against. Vs non interactive opponents it's easy, but making sure u go off in the middle of bolts, paths, and counter magic is very important. Some times u need to go off at instant speed. I just see a turn 2 Pyro as an inferior plan to sculpting your hand.
Idk, travis woo has that build but I'm sticking to the no token plan. Also this build is having actual good results so it's hard not to go this way
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Young Pyromancer has been incredibly strong in the deck though. And i'll stick to my guns there. It just gives the opponent something else to worry about. The combo here can actually be pretty easy to disrupt, so Pyromancer gives them 1 more thing they need to deal with asap. this not only spreads there disruption thinner, but also makes their choices a lot harder to make. "Do i Bolt this Pyromancer, or let it get out of control, and save this Bolt for Fatestitcher when he tries to combo?" Also like i said, if you do manage to get a few tokens before comboing it saves you literally 5+ spells you would normally have to chain together. It's a lot easier to kill with 4 5/5s, than 2 10/10s.
3-1 daily on MTGO recently on MTG Goldfish using Geist plan on SB
They changed the title of the Deck to Sticher Storm, which I hate lol. The deck isnt slave to Fatesticher to win, relys on Jeskai Ascendancy game 1, and has nothing to do with storm besides its a combo deck
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
What do you think about 3 Remands vs the new 2 Remands 1 Peek. ALso what about Seachrome Coast vs another Hallowed Fountain?
What are you guys replacing Wind zendikon with? Conclave? if so, how many. I dont get this because conclave is a mana producing card which means if you are cutting 1 or 2 conclaves, then your missing 2 lands from your deck which means worse consistency of turn 3 land drops. On top of that, you are setting your lands up for destruction unless you are casting Wind Zendikon the turn you combo off, which im still trying to understand how more cantrips or removal (or whatever you are replacing) isnt just better?
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Ive been cutting 2x lightning bolts for wind zendikons. My local meta is overrun with spell based combo so there isnt really much danger, ive even been contemplating cutting bolt for zendikon entirely. The thing is, this deck is so customizable that you could cut a remand or two instead if you had a lot of agro, or something like a bolt and an izzit charm for something like SCG open or whatever. 4 belong in the 75, no question (i find they are much, much better than delver). I just like having access to a couple of them game one as a sort of 'preboard hedge'.
Because Im playing zendikon, ive cut 2x faerie conclave for a celestial colonnade and a steam vents. I like that this gives me slightly faster mana and colors. I never expect to combo with colonnade; I mainly just see it as a U/W dual with (very slight) late game upside.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash