As of 11/13, NiallPlaysMagic has handed the primer/thread over to me, and I'm currently writing an updated primer for the thread that reflects the more current updates to the deck (PKN etc..). I plan on keeping the old primer saved at the bottom of the post as well for those that still want to refer to it as there is still some discussion of the previous builds that ran abbot.
Grixis Midrange - "Blue Jund"
(primer a work in progress)
(note: sideboards vary between meta, and I change mine to try new things fairly often)
Card Choices by Category:
3-4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy - The reason this deck exists. I'll admit that he does look fairly weak on paper, and appears to just be a worse snapcaster, but flipping him often puts you in a position where it's tough to lose the game. Because of how easy it is to flip him (consistently on turn 3), he's basically a 2 mana planeswalker with 5 loyalty. I run 4 because of his lightning rod status, and his looter ability makes it pretty easy to chuck extra copies. Having 4 jaces, Rise/Fall, and 3 Delve Guys also means that we can very often have a proactive gameplan starting on turn 2.
1 Gurmag Angler - This guy has been absent for a while, but since dropping abbot from the list, I often felt we needed another big dumb guy to stand in the way of things that doesn't get bogged down by the legendary rule.
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar - Man oh man, is this card good. I've seen/heard it compared to lingering souls, and they're not far off. This is another card that works much better in practice than on paper. I wasn't very excited about the card until the first time I actually cast it. This is my most common target for kCommand and Rise by far, as it generates so much value every time it hits the battlefield. Need to buy time? This'll give you plenty. Need to beat down? It hits just as hard as Tasigur, with some added reach. This card is almost always a 2 for 1, and is one of the best ways to kill a Liliana. I've also come to appreciate how good the 1/1 Thopters are against affinity (similar to lingering souls..), trading with most of their creatures and even blocking etched champions if need be. I really like this card a lot, and suggest everyone give it a try.
Other Options:
Young Pyromancer - I played this guy for a while as a way to go wide against my opponents, but really didn't enjoy top-decking him. Then PKN got printed and he was booted almost immediately.
Grim Lavamancer - More than a couple of lists have shown up with a 1 of Lavaman in the MB, and he has the potential for a very ceiling when left unchecked. In a metagame with lots of merfolk, infect, or affinity, this guy can go far. He does lean on the gy for support, so I'd either play him or the Gurmag Angler in this slot. I do like that he can trim the fat from your GY to make Tasigur activations, but if used too aggresively he can make it tougher to drop a Tasigur on time (another reason to run the full set of Thought Scours).
Cantrips
4 Serum Visions - would prefer ponder/preordain, but, yaknow.. banlist
4 Thought Scour - A lot of lists run 3, but with 4 Jaces, 2 Rise/Fall, and my 1 Gurmag Angler, I've enjoyed the 4th copy in my list.
1 Rise // Fall - Early game it has the potential to just wreck your opponent's gameplan as a Hymn to Tourach, or even late game recur PKN for the 3rd time that game and bounce their threat/your snapcaster mage. This is one of the best cards for grinding your opponent down to nothing.
Removal
4 Lightning Bolt - I just figured a format-defining card would be a pretty good include.
2 Terminate - I was running the full 4 until I kept running into Master of Waves. I decided to diversify my removal to be able to kill basically anything.
1 Dismember - Cheap when you need it to be, effectively a murder when you don't need it to be. Kills Master of Waves Has worked well so far.
1 Tribute to Hunger - This is a card I was on the fence about until I watched someone play it on stream and kill Tasigurs and Goyfs. Really good against Delver and Jund, decent against just about everything else, bad against tokens. Kills Bogles!
3 Kolaghan's Command - This card has just been insane since it was printed, and is basically my favorite card in the format.
Counters
2 Mana Leak - Sometimes you just can't let things resolve.
22 Lands - I see a lot of lists running 23 lands, but with 8 Cantrips, and 4 jaces I feel like that number is a bit high. I was actually running 21 lands for a very long time until somewhat recently. I did feel like I was very slightly short at 21, but 22 has felt pretty perfect so far.
Dispel - Mostly brought in against burn, but is also great against other blue decks, of course.
Negate - Counters burn spells, helps fight the blue fight, and comes in to counter Karn and Ugin against tron (Tron is such an awful matchup).
Countersquall - Negate + Shock, slightly more mana intensive. I did kill someone with it once, so that was pretty sweet.
Damnation - In a creature heavy meta this card is sweet. I've been running 2 lately.
Rending Volley - Sure this card is great against twin, but that matchup is already pretty good. You know what else this card is great against? MERFOLK. That matchup is much more difficult.
Molten Rain - Kills tron lands dead. Flashing back 1 or 2 of these makes the game very difficult for your opponents. I also like to bring these cards in against decks like UWR and (sometimes) Jund
Fulminator Mage - Seriously, Tron is awful. This is another popular option for repeatable land destruction.
Molten Rain vs Fulminator Mage - This is basically preference. Molten rain can be easier to flashback, but Fulminator can be brought back over and over and over and... you get it. I've settled on a 2 MR/1 FM split because I like having the ability to cast Mages over and over, but the 2nd copy is almost always just better as a Molten Rain. Molten Rain does have the sweet upside of being able to smack planeswalkers. So far I've killed 2 Lily and 1 Ajani.
Crumble to Dust - If you realllly hate Tron.
Vandalblast - I prefer it over shattering spree because the overload kills Etched Champions and Jace can overload it w/ his flashback.
Shatterstorm - I've been running this lately because I really just want to wreck their whole board.
Izzet Staticaster - Surprisingly good utility card. Deals with random X/1s and kills tokens. I brought it in against Merfolk and was able to slug through all 4 copies of Master of Waves because I could take out all of their tokens at instant speed. Pretty sweet.
Engineered Explosives - I would consider at least 1 copy of EE to be mandatory since it deals with things that we can't otherwise profitably interact with. Kills Bogles (or at least all of their totem armors), RiP, Choke, Wild Defiance, and gets around Cursecatchers to name a few useful things.
Spellskite - I feel like it's just not modern with at least 1 spellskite in the board. This guy really just about does it all it seems like.
Abbot Grixis (jokingly referred to as 'Blue Jund' - don't take it too seriously) is a deck that is designed to play tap out style attrition based control that eventually overtakes the opponent with value creatures such as Tasigur, Gurmag Angler, and Abbot of Keral Keep, while also making excellent usage of it's graveyard using Snapcaster Mage.
Current main working decklist decklist (list by user tjd2191):
Sorceries are incredibly strong in this deck as they have excellent synergy with Abbot and is why the deck doesn't lean as heavily on instants.
Blue
Serum Visions - A no brainer. Cantrip that fuels delve, and helps smooth out draws.
Black
Inquisition of Kozilek - Strong turn 1 discard. Some will schew more towards this over Thoughtseize because so many threats in modern are cmc 3 or less and it doesn't hurt.
Thoughtseize - Inquisition's best buddy. Grab anything at the cost of 2 life.
Gold
Rise // Fall - An INCREDIBLY powerful card that has synergy with a shell like this better than perhaps any other. Using Rise as a tempo play to bounce a creature and get back an Abbot or Snap is very powerful, as is Fall's Hymn to Tourach impression. This card helps you to utterly annihilate other decks in topdeck wars as all of the modes can be relevant at any given time.
Just because this deck is more ok with leaning on sorceries doesn't mean that it doesn't have an excellent selection of instants at it's disposal.
Blue
Thought Scour - A cantripping Dark Ritual. The value of this card in powering out Delve creatures of giving Snapcaster some ammunition cannot be overstated.
Kolaghan's Command - Modern's current favorite command. This card is a workhorse that recurs creatures, deals damage, has instant speed discard (an amazingly powerful and rare ability), and acts as main deck Affinity hate. This card is one of the reasons why so many Grixis decks are pushing up into the higher tiers.
Terminate - Arguably the most efficient unconditional removal in Modern. This card puts in work every single game.
Abbot of Keral Keep - Magic Origins gave us this beast and he's currently the reason why this deck exists and largely accounts for many of the card choices so that we can best abuse his same turn virtual card advantage. Incredible with Rise/Fall, Liliana, Serum Visions, or just helping to hit an extra land drop. A 2/1 body with Prowess is absolutely no joke and with your deck looks to play so many of it's spells on our own turn, it just pushes him over the top.
Snapcaster Mage - Possibly the best creature ever printed and certainly the best reason to play Blue. From doubling all of your key spells and giving you incredible reach, to acting as an ambush viper, Snapcaster is the glue of any deck that builds around him.
Tasigur, The Golden Fang and Gurmag Angler - hyper efficient huge threats that can hit the board very early, or help you break stalls in the late game. Both of them (along with K-Command) are the reason Grixis is where it is right now. Absolutely amazing creatures to have access to.
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy - Jace is the newest addition to the deck and after what was IMMEDIATELY clear after testing to be a great fit, he's now solidly a two of and it wouldn't necessarily be wrong to run as many as 4 depending on your configuration. Loots to fuel delve, helps break stalemates against opposing fatties, and acts as extra Snapcasters. This deck more than any other Grixis shell is able to best take advantage of Jace because of our desire to operate at sorcery speed AND he has incredible synergy with Liliana of the Veil. Jace ABSOLUTELY has a home in Modern in this deck, and if you get to untap with him you'll be very pleased with riding the train to value town.
Liliana of the Veil - Currently the only planeswalker the deck runs and with good reason. Puts the game into top deck mode in a hurry which is where we shine while ALSO providing creature removal and an incredible ultimate ability. Liliana is as amazing here as she is in BG(x) shells, and this is the only Grixis shell capable of abusing her to her fullest.
Sideboard: coming soon
Finishes -
Starcitygames.com Modern Open Charlotte - 5th - Michael Majors while not playing this list exactly (he didn't nix the counters or play Abbot), is the first player to place with both Liliana and Jace at a major tournament. His deck list can be found here: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=90016. His version of the deck has plenty of changes from the running lists we're currently discussing, but many of the ideas are present that we're looking to abuse.
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
So, Flip Jace plus Grim Lavamancer just feels so great. I just ran the deck through a few games and I was up against a 4 color gifts player who reanimates Iona naming Black - my board is an unflipped Jace with 4 cards in yard and Lavamancer - I start my turn - loot with Jace finding a bolt - flip Jace - Bolt, Jace -3 Bolt, and Lavamancer ability to kill the Iona. That's VERY VERY powerful for a turn 4 play against what against most decks is a complete hoser.
Other notes: Abbot on any turn after 4 in this deck is pretty much a guaranteed Elvish Visionary with prowess (which is FANTASTIC).
Pack Rat IS probably better in the sideboard.
This mana base needs more R/B than it does Blue.
With some of those things in mind I changed it a bit -
I haven't actually lost any test matches yet - having a deck that no one knows what it's trying to do is VERY beneficial - and I've dodged what is likely some of my worst matchups (GW aggro of any kind) - but so far so good. DO NOT sleep on Abbot and Bob together. It's CRAZY amounts of card advantage.
I feel like it's a bad version of delver or control at this point. I do like the idea of Pack rat though and I feel like you should capitalize on the grave yard with snapples, bloodghast and tasigur. Get all of the value.
Bloodghast is an interesting idea, I'm using Snaps (and Lavamancer) to take advantage of the yard, and running Tasigur with Bob isn't a great idea.
I think it's much more resilient than delver - topdecking a Delver or Spell Pierce in the late game feels horrible - and it plays on a VERY different axis than the control lists do (it's almost all at sorcery speed, which actually works).
Pack Rat would be for any HEAVY attrition matches because the only real removal for it is Maelstrom Pulse which is a 1 of in 2 different decks. Not a terrible place to be.
Tasi and bob is fine together as long as you're not maxing out on tasi. Both grixis and jund have ran them together and people used to run tomb stalker with bob and won plenty of matches. I mean, it's your deck, but if you want to be competitive, you're definitely going to need to make a lot of changes or you're going to hear the the same things I've said.
My decklist is a bit more streamlined a looks a lot closer to a "Blue Jund" deck. To be honest, it has been fantastic. As you can see, the deck did quite well there, and I think that something along these lines really has some legs. Abbot of Keral Keep is one hell of a card.
Lately I have shaved some of the 1 mana hand disruption and moved a Kolaghan's Command to side for something spicy: Rise/Fall. I was playing one in the side previously, but man, this card is nuts. It is quite often close to Hymn to Tourach, and while it may not be as good, it also isn't a dead draw lategame! In fact, it is quite often one of your best draws lategame. (quite similar to Kolaghan's Command) The synergy this card has with the rest of the deck is great, and I think this is the perfect shell for it. Turn 4 Abbot into Fall is damn close to Bloodbraid Elf into Hymn (or Blightning, depending on the format you played in). Rise/Fall gets even more insane with Liliana on the field, because players are often forced to pitch extra lands to Lili, and then you get to blow them out with Fall. Or you can bounce their threat to their hand, and then use Lili's +1 to get rid of it too. And then the late game applications of bouncing your own Snaps and Abbots while pulling even more threats out of the grave gets out of hand really fast.
I really think that 'Blue Jund' is the only way to actually describe this deck - and it's hard to describe just how different it plays than the other three Grixis shells. I love going up to four Abbots, they really are fantastic here - how would you feel about flip Jace? He fills your yard up for your Delve creatures, AND provides card filtering and Snap type effects. He's much better than I thought he would be, especially in a tap out style shell. Rise // Fall seems AMAZING here too. Good call. Do you think Bob is worth pursuing at all in this shell? He fits so naturally into Jund, what is different here?
Yeah, the deck really plays like Jund but you get sick blue cards instead of boring green ones
What's different here is that we have no maindeck lifegain that jund usually has(ooze, sometimes huntmaster, finks, etc) and our Tarmogoyf replacements make us take 6 or 7 haha. I don't think you can play Bob here. There is also quite a bit of card advantage already gained between all of the 2-for-1 spells, Snap, and Abbot. I feel favored against almost everything other than the ramp decks in the long game. And for those the decks you get 4 fulminators and EIGHT cards recur them post board.
What I have been struggling against are the aggro/tempo decks, merfolk especially.
I seriously can't praise Abbot enough. An important thing to realise is that it is sometimes correct to just play him as a 2/1 prowess guy on turn 2. You have to analyse the matchup and how your hand is going to play out, but it really isn't hard to make him hit for 3-5 for multiple turns in a row in this deck. The fact that he has the flexibility to be good on turn 2 or turn 10 is great. He can be a bit tricky with what order you can play your lands in and how you sequence your spells, but I think he is great.
Jace is something to consider. He is definitely playable, I just don't know how to fit him, and he is even better here than in something like the normal Grixis Control. He would most likely take the Rise/Fall slots, because everything else just seems impossible to shave. I guess less Abbots? Or move some lilianas to side? I do want to play him though.
Cutting liliana is very likely wrong though. Seriously that card is nuts, there are so many decks that have so much trouble with her.
If we can work on this together (and others too!) I really hope this deck will get more attention. I think that this shell is very good. And man is it a lot of fun. So many small decisions that add up and you can very often find a different line of play that could have been taken that would have led you to victory.
In order to potentially better facilitate really early Abbotts, I'm inclined to think that we might want more cheap discard - maybe a cut a fall for another Inquisition? Maybe a fatty? Sadly, I'm with you on the Bob assessment. I think we do need the fatties and we have other forms of card advantage.
Getting in to some of the gritty details - do you find that 20 lands is enough? I almost feel like 21/22 might be safer, if only because Lily's double black will be difficult potentially if played early and Abbott REALLY wants 4 lands in play before he becomes optimal.
Lastly, in playing Grixis control lists I've REALLY like a 3-1 Terminate/Go for the Throat split for getting around the odd spellskite or master of waves. It can make a difference even when it seems like it shouldn't.
I was playing 6 one mana hand disruption spells before rise/fall. I think that this may be more of a preference/meta thing. I really like rise/fall, and I hate drawing dead thoughtseize late game. Jund normally plays 6 of them (like I did before), but I didn't take into account the 8 cantrips which makes you see the rest of your deck more often. I do not think that cutting a fatty is correct, I think they are VERY important. They do so much. They turn the corner when you are ahead, and they help stabilize the board when you are behind. As much as I love my 2/1's with spells attached, they can't do it all. Sometimes you just have to have a big dumb dude.
I have been happy with the 20 lands. In general the curve of this deck is slightly lower than grixis control's (which plays 22). This one also has the abbots that help hit land drops, and lastly, control really wants hit the land drops all the way up to 6 quite consistently because it has to keep up mana for counterspells. After playing the deck for the past few weeks I have been satisfied with the 20 lands. What it might come down to is that the deck may want 21 lands and have last land be a utility land? Either another tar pit, or loothouse, tec edge/ghost quarter, or cavern of souls? (Every creature other than gurmag is human). I will keep working at it, maybe I am just greedy and will get tired of mana screw enough times to come around to your suggestion. haha.
I will totally try the GFtT 1/3 split. Sounds good to me
Welp, sounds like we have some stuff to playtest and try out. I'm going to do a bit of testing with your list and also try moving some stuff around in variations (Jace, 21 lands, etc.), and see how everything works out. If this gets any amount of traction I'll update the main post into a legitimate primer.
How'd that sideboard work for you? I feel like bloodmoon is MUCH stronger here than some of the other Grixis shells because we aren't worried about holding up U for counter magic with snap, and we aren't casting cryptics - but fulminators is AMAZING with Rise//Fall and K command. I might look at cutting the LOTV and R/F in the side in favor of an extra Anger of the Gods and a Languish. We aren't wide enough at all that we can just ignore some of the faster wide decks (abzan coco, merfolk, Zoo, etc.), so I think the extra sweepers should help (and I can't really imagine you ever want a 4th Lily but I could be wrong.
The spells are just so mana intensive. I'm scared to play blood moons. Even if we don't have to hold up U for counters, blood moon cuts off the ability to go Snap into another blue spell (either Rise, or a cantrip) and you have to have both swamps on the battlefield to cast Liliana. (or multiple spells in one turn like disruption/terminate + Tasigur for example)
I think that Liliana is really good against pretty much any deck that doesn't involve a mana dork or super fast aggro. But I guess the deck is pretty good against the other midrange/control/combo strategies as it is, and I might just have the 4th Liliana in the board because I know it is a good card, not necessarily because it is needed. That is a good point.
Have you been able to test out the Jace, Vryns Prodigy? I really want to give him a go, but I don't know what to cut, and I would like other's opinions of him as well.
First, I love the idea of your title, saying "my creature does more than yours" like Jund does, but I feel like it's a bit of a misnomer. Nothing against your deck at all, hardly that. Just that when it comes to cards being the most efficient at their CMC, Jund has you beat by miles. And that's with your deck having some extreme value creatures. Basically, while you're running a deck with serious value coupled with synergy, Jund wins because it outclasses you at every CMC (and it used to be worse: 1 was DRS, 2 Goyf, 3 Lili, 4 BBE + friend). This isn't Blue Jund. It's certainly not normal Grixis either, but it's got too much synergy to be blue Jund.
Second, any reason why you don't run Olivia Voldaren? She's such a beating if they can't answer her, and in long games just starts stealing crap from them.
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I don't really understand your criticism. Talking about abstract things like 'too much synergy' and 'Jund has me beat by miles when it comes to cards being the most efficient as their CMC' isn't really relevant. My deck plays very much like Jund. You pull your opponent down to your level with efficient disruption and removal and force both players into a low resource/top deck game, and then win off the back of better topdecks. I'm not sure why the level of synergy in the deck takes away from this playstyle.
I'm also not sure if you're trying to argue that Jund beats this deck in a straight up fight. Because it doesn't. Barring extreme variance, this deck is favored. The only way that Jund can compete in the later stages of the game is if it has an uncontested Scavenging Ooze. Other than that, Jund really struggles with the constant 2-for-1's and recursion. (whereas Jund is MOSTLY 1-for-1's, but relies on the fact that it's cards are more efficient). This deck sacrifices a bit of the efficiency for flexibility and way more opportunity for card advantage. (see Snap vs Bob, Tasigur vs Goyf, Abbot vs 4 drops, Rise/Fall vs Pulse/Decay)
Where Jund excels over this deck is that Jund has an easier time playing a 'Tempo' game. This deck can't play a turn 2 4/5 unless it has a thought scour. Instead the beaters here usually aren't played until turn 3 or 4. This is important in the matchups that come down to a race. The grindy mirror isn't one of them.
This deck doesn't play Olivia because she's expensive. I admit that she is absolutely nuts and incredibly difficult for a fair deck to beat IF you get to untap with her. The problem is that she sometimes cost 6, and at the very least 4. The deck already has the insane lategame engine of Snapcaster/Abbot + Rise/KCommand.
It should be noted that we are jokingly referring to this as 'blue jund' because of the similarity of playstyle : tap out control in RB using bolts, terminate, lily, and backed up with hyper efficient value creatures in Abbot, Tasigur, and Angler. Is this actually Jund? Of course not.
Also, you were completely correct about Rise // Fall. Getting to play both halves at the same time is a RIDICULOUS blowout. Just had a game where my opponent end of turn K-Commanded killing my Lily and getting back a gurmag - he had a snap on the field and I had a snap as well. I know he has 2 cards in hand and I draw into an inquisition. I inquisition, take out the delver he was holding, then Rise Fall bouncing his snap, resurrecting my Tasigur, and causing him to discard his whole hand. Absolutely ridiculous.
(primer a work in progress)
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Gurmag Angler
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Spells (27)
4 Serum Visions
4 Thoughtscour
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
1 Dismember
1 Tribute to Hunger
3 Kolaghan's Command
1 Rise//Fall
2 Mana Leak
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
1 Darkslick Shores
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Countersquall
1 Go for the Throat
1 Damnation
1 Rending Volley
2 Molten Rain
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Rise//Fall
1 Keranos, God of Storms
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Spellskite
(note: sideboards vary between meta, and I change mine to try new things fairly often)
Card Choices by Category:
Other Options:
Cantrips
Disruption
Removal
nothing here yet, sorry!
Other Notable Top 8+ Decklists
Link
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Vendilion Clique
Instant [14]
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Kolaghan's Command
3 Terminate
3 Thought Scour
1 Dismember
Sorcery [9]
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
1 Rise / Fall
1 Liliana of the Veil
Land [23]
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Island
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
2 Watery Grave
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Fulminator Mage
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Izzet Staticaster
3 Dispel
1 Damnation
1 Vandalblast
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Molten Rain
2 Engineered Explosives
Link
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Instant [16]
4 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Thought Scour
3 Terminate
1 Dismember
Sorcery [9]
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
1 Rise / Fall
1 Liliana of the Veil
Land [23]
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Island
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
2 Watery Grave
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Fulminator Mage
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Tribute to Hunger
1 Spell Snare
3 Dispel
1 Molten Rain
1 Vandalblast
1 Damnation
1 Anger of the Gods
Link
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Grim Lavamancer
Instant [11]
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Mana Leak
1 Go for the Throat
1 Remand
1 Terminate
Sorcery [13]
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
3 Thoughtseize
1 Dreadbore
1 Rise / Fall
1 Liliana of the Veil
Land [23]
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Island
2 Steam Vents
1 Blood Crypt
1 Mountain
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
1 Spellskite
2 Izzet Staticaster
2 Dispel
1 Rending Volley
1 Darkblast
1 Thoughtseize
3 Molten Rain
1 Vandalblast
1 Dreadbore
1 Rise / Fall
1 Nihil Spellbomb
Link to mtgtop8 Grixis Control page.
--Previous Abbot/Jace Grixis Primer--
Abbot Grixis (jokingly referred to as 'Blue Jund' - don't take it too seriously) is a deck that is designed to play tap out style attrition based control that eventually overtakes the opponent with value creatures such as Tasigur, Gurmag Angler, and Abbot of Keral Keep, while also making excellent usage of it's graveyard using Snapcaster Mage.
Current main working decklist decklist (list by user tjd2191):
4 Abbot of Keral Keep
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler
28
4 Serum Visions
3 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Rise // Fall
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Thoughtseize
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
2 Blood Crypt
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Mountain
4 Fulminator Mage
2 Vampiric Link
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Damnation
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Rise // Fall
1 Vandalblast
Card Choices -
Sorceries are incredibly strong in this deck as they have excellent synergy with Abbot and is why the deck doesn't lean as heavily on instants.
Blue
Black
Gold
Just because this deck is more ok with leaning on sorceries doesn't mean that it doesn't have an excellent selection of instants at it's disposal.
Blue
Red
Black
Gold
Sideboard: coming soon
Finishes -
Starcitygames.com Modern Open Charlotte - 5th - Michael Majors while not playing this list exactly (he didn't nix the counters or play Abbot), is the first player to place with both Liliana and Jace at a major tournament. His deck list can be found here: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=90016. His version of the deck has plenty of changes from the running lists we're currently discussing, but many of the ideas are present that we're looking to abuse.
Updated:08/31/15
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Other notes: Abbot on any turn after 4 in this deck is pretty much a guaranteed Elvish Visionary with prowess (which is FANTASTIC).
Pack Rat IS probably better in the sideboard.
This mana base needs more R/B than it does Blue.
With some of those things in mind I changed it a bit -
-1 Snap
-2 Pack Rats
-1 Steam Vents
-1 Watery Grave
+1 Abbot
+1 Young Pyro
+1 V Clique
+2 Blood Crypt
Also, here's the current sideboard.
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Death's Shadow
1 Izzet Staticaster
3 Pack Rat
2 Spellskite
2 Vampiric Link
2 Magma Spray
I haven't actually lost any test matches yet - having a deck that no one knows what it's trying to do is VERY beneficial - and I've dodged what is likely some of my worst matchups (GW aggro of any kind) - but so far so good. DO NOT sleep on Abbot and Bob together. It's CRAZY amounts of card advantage.
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Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
I think it's much more resilient than delver - topdecking a Delver or Spell Pierce in the late game feels horrible - and it plays on a VERY different axis than the control lists do (it's almost all at sorcery speed, which actually works).
Pack Rat would be for any HEAVY attrition matches because the only real removal for it is Maelstrom Pulse which is a 1 of in 2 different decks. Not a terrible place to be.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
My decklist is a bit more streamlined a looks a lot closer to a "Blue Jund" deck. To be honest, it has been fantastic. As you can see, the deck did quite well there, and I think that something along these lines really has some legs. Abbot of Keral Keep is one hell of a card.
Lately I have shaved some of the 1 mana hand disruption and moved a Kolaghan's Command to side for something spicy: Rise/Fall. I was playing one in the side previously, but man, this card is nuts. It is quite often close to Hymn to Tourach, and while it may not be as good, it also isn't a dead draw lategame! In fact, it is quite often one of your best draws lategame. (quite similar to Kolaghan's Command) The synergy this card has with the rest of the deck is great, and I think this is the perfect shell for it. Turn 4 Abbot into Fall is damn close to Bloodbraid Elf into Hymn (or Blightning, depending on the format you played in). Rise/Fall gets even more insane with Liliana on the field, because players are often forced to pitch extra lands to Lili, and then you get to blow them out with Fall. Or you can bounce their threat to their hand, and then use Lili's +1 to get rid of it too. And then the late game applications of bouncing your own Snaps and Abbots while pulling even more threats out of the grave gets out of hand really fast.
So this is the 75 I am at now:
4 Abbot of Keral Keep
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler
28
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Rise // Fall
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Thoughtseize
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
2 Blood Crypt
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Mountain
4 Fulminator Mage
2 Vampiric Link
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Damnation
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Rise // Fall
1 Vandalblast
What's different here is that we have no maindeck lifegain that jund usually has(ooze, sometimes huntmaster, finks, etc) and our Tarmogoyf replacements make us take 6 or 7 haha. I don't think you can play Bob here. There is also quite a bit of card advantage already gained between all of the 2-for-1 spells, Snap, and Abbot. I feel favored against almost everything other than the ramp decks in the long game. And for those the decks you get 4 fulminators and EIGHT cards recur them post board.
What I have been struggling against are the aggro/tempo decks, merfolk especially.
I seriously can't praise Abbot enough. An important thing to realise is that it is sometimes correct to just play him as a 2/1 prowess guy on turn 2. You have to analyse the matchup and how your hand is going to play out, but it really isn't hard to make him hit for 3-5 for multiple turns in a row in this deck. The fact that he has the flexibility to be good on turn 2 or turn 10 is great. He can be a bit tricky with what order you can play your lands in and how you sequence your spells, but I think he is great.
Jace is something to consider. He is definitely playable, I just don't know how to fit him, and he is even better here than in something like the normal Grixis Control. He would most likely take the Rise/Fall slots, because everything else just seems impossible to shave. I guess less Abbots? Or move some lilianas to side? I do want to play him though.
Cutting liliana is very likely wrong though. Seriously that card is nuts, there are so many decks that have so much trouble with her.
If we can work on this together (and others too!) I really hope this deck will get more attention. I think that this shell is very good. And man is it a lot of fun. So many small decisions that add up and you can very often find a different line of play that could have been taken that would have led you to victory.
Getting in to some of the gritty details - do you find that 20 lands is enough? I almost feel like 21/22 might be safer, if only because Lily's double black will be difficult potentially if played early and Abbott REALLY wants 4 lands in play before he becomes optimal.
Lastly, in playing Grixis control lists I've REALLY like a 3-1 Terminate/Go for the Throat split for getting around the odd spellskite or master of waves. It can make a difference even when it seems like it shouldn't.
I have been happy with the 20 lands. In general the curve of this deck is slightly lower than grixis control's (which plays 22). This one also has the abbots that help hit land drops, and lastly, control really wants hit the land drops all the way up to 6 quite consistently because it has to keep up mana for counterspells. After playing the deck for the past few weeks I have been satisfied with the 20 lands. What it might come down to is that the deck may want 21 lands and have last land be a utility land? Either another tar pit, or loothouse, tec edge/ghost quarter, or cavern of souls? (Every creature other than gurmag is human). I will keep working at it, maybe I am just greedy and will get tired of mana screw enough times to come around to your suggestion. haha.
I will totally try the GFtT 1/3 split. Sounds good to me
How'd that sideboard work for you? I feel like bloodmoon is MUCH stronger here than some of the other Grixis shells because we aren't worried about holding up U for counter magic with snap, and we aren't casting cryptics - but fulminators is AMAZING with Rise//Fall and K command. I might look at cutting the LOTV and R/F in the side in favor of an extra Anger of the Gods and a Languish. We aren't wide enough at all that we can just ignore some of the faster wide decks (abzan coco, merfolk, Zoo, etc.), so I think the extra sweepers should help (and I can't really imagine you ever want a 4th Lily but I could be wrong.
I think that Liliana is really good against pretty much any deck that doesn't involve a mana dork or super fast aggro. But I guess the deck is pretty good against the other midrange/control/combo strategies as it is, and I might just have the 4th Liliana in the board because I know it is a good card, not necessarily because it is needed. That is a good point.
First, I love the idea of your title, saying "my creature does more than yours" like Jund does, but I feel like it's a bit of a misnomer. Nothing against your deck at all, hardly that. Just that when it comes to cards being the most efficient at their CMC, Jund has you beat by miles. And that's with your deck having some extreme value creatures. Basically, while you're running a deck with serious value coupled with synergy, Jund wins because it outclasses you at every CMC (and it used to be worse: 1 was DRS, 2 Goyf, 3 Lili, 4 BBE + friend). This isn't Blue Jund. It's certainly not normal Grixis either, but it's got too much synergy to be blue Jund.
Second, any reason why you don't run Olivia Voldaren? She's such a beating if they can't answer her, and in long games just starts stealing crap from them.
I'm also not sure if you're trying to argue that Jund beats this deck in a straight up fight. Because it doesn't. Barring extreme variance, this deck is favored. The only way that Jund can compete in the later stages of the game is if it has an uncontested Scavenging Ooze. Other than that, Jund really struggles with the constant 2-for-1's and recursion. (whereas Jund is MOSTLY 1-for-1's, but relies on the fact that it's cards are more efficient). This deck sacrifices a bit of the efficiency for flexibility and way more opportunity for card advantage. (see Snap vs Bob, Tasigur vs Goyf, Abbot vs 4 drops, Rise/Fall vs Pulse/Decay)
Where Jund excels over this deck is that Jund has an easier time playing a 'Tempo' game. This deck can't play a turn 2 4/5 unless it has a thought scour. Instead the beaters here usually aren't played until turn 3 or 4. This is important in the matchups that come down to a race. The grindy mirror isn't one of them.
This deck doesn't play Olivia because she's expensive. I admit that she is absolutely nuts and incredibly difficult for a fair deck to beat IF you get to untap with her. The problem is that she sometimes cost 6, and at the very least 4. The deck already has the insane lategame engine of Snapcaster/Abbot + Rise/KCommand.