I also have a couple of other Xarch Twin thoughts that I'd like to hear your comments on:
1) What do you think about mizzium mortars instead of flame slash?
My reason for the former are as follows: On the first turn, you usually want to play a draw spell (or maybe a lavamancer). You could then follow your second turn with a mizzium mortars if necessary. The obvious benefit is the option of overloading when you draw the mortars late-game... But is that option worth 1 extra mana?
2) Why Grim Lavamancer(s) in this deck? I know the card is very powerful, & I want to include it in my mainboard, but I always find that other cards that actually help the combo are worth more in the main board slot. Though many top Splinter Twin decklists have 2-4x Grim Lavamancer in the MB. Can someone please enlighten me on the apparently beneficial MB Lavamancer inclusion?
3) Izzet Charm? I feel like that this card fits perfectly to aid in what our deck is trying to achieve. I cut two Gitaxian probes in my list for 2 charms, & I so far I like 'em. Though in my last games, I kept on having trouble with targeted discard (aka Jund matchup), and now Im considering spell pierce mainboard instead of the izzet charm (I normally run 2x spell pierce in the SB)... which brings me to:
On Cyclonic Rift: Only use it over Echoing Truth if you expect multiple lock pieces with different names. I personally don't expect this for Exarch Twin, and I especially don't anticipate hitting 7 mana (unlike Scapeshift, which must hit at least 7 lands to win), so I'd rather play Echoing Truth.
On Grim Lavamancer: I personally don't play him, but against fast aggro like Affinity and Infect, he can be invaluable. He's also decent against grindy decks like Delver and Jund. He also helps bring the beats if your Splinter Twins have been Slaughter Games'ed.
On Izzet Charm: I play 2 of that card in my build, and I no longer endorse Electrostatic Bolt because of this. (Seriously, all that card does is hit Spellskite at instant speed now.) It's pretty nifty, though I do agree that it basically can't head off targeted discard (unlike Spell Pierce).
On fighting targeted discard: Spell Pierce isn't bad. I've seen a few players splash black for their own targeted discard. There's also praying that your opponent is too slow to take advantage of you losing your best card, but then that Thoughtseize could just have been prep for a Slaughter Games...
On Cyclonic Rift: Only use it over Echoing Truth if you expect multiple lock pieces with different names. I personally don't expect this for Exarch Twin, and I especially don't anticipate hitting 7 mana (unlike Scapeshift, which must hit at least 7 lands to win), so I'd rather play Echoing Truth.
On Grim Lavamancer: I personally don't play him, but against fast aggro like Affinity and Infect, he can be invaluable. He's also decent against grindy decks like Delver and Jund. He also helps bring the beats if your Splinter Twins have been Slaughter Games'ed.
On Izzet Charm: I play 2 of that card in my build, and I no longer endorse Electrostatic Bolt because of this. (Seriously, all that card does is hit Spellskite at instant speed now.) It's pretty nifty, though I do agree that it basically can't head off targeted discard (unlike Spell Pierce).
On fighting targeted discard: Spell Pierce isn't bad. I've seen a few players splash black for their own targeted discard. There's also praying that your opponent is too slow to take advantage of you losing your best card, but then that Thoughtseize could just have been prep for a Slaughter Games...
Thanks for the reply!
Could you post your decklist when you get a chance? Im curious.. It's kinda sad that the best option against discard is spell pierce..
Do you run spell pierce main?
& also, how many, if any, gitaxian probes are you playing & why?
thanks again.
So yeah, I play zero Gitaxian Probes maindeck. I still find Remand decent (people play all sorts of stuff on Cockatrice).
I don't get why people tend to run fewer than 4 Dispels. I almost treat it and Spellskite like a third combo piece. Against a lot of decks, being secure against removal is crucial.
I agree with 4x Dispel.. Though ~> no spell pierce at all?
How do you (or others) approach the jund matchup / 3 Inquisition & 3 thoughtseize without access to spell pierce?
I also have another question regarding the green splash in Twin:
Is the green splash really necessary?
Right now I'm running slagstorm instead of firespout. And instead of Ancient grudge i'm running steel sabotage (though if anyone has another recommendation of what I could run instead of ancient grudge, please let me know).
Toughing out the disruption is usually the way to go against Jund. I've seen some lists that eschew stuff like Remand entirely in favour of more cantrips. Boarding in Blood Moon can also be a good idea, though Deathrite builds can usually dodge it.
Spellskite is so the main is a must have in the current meta. Either you are playing Skites or lavamamcers, or doing it wrong.
Skite does a lot for the deck. It provides a wall on the ground, a burn spounge and a removal magnet all in one. Most importantly in the current meta it turns poison counters into life loss, by absorbing pump spells and shutting down infects super fast clock. You can also use lavamancer to take out the creatures, but skite does it for no future investment.
Hey guys this is my list for GP Toronto the weekend.
Any tips or suggestions would be great.
Sorry of there are any spelling errors, im on my phone and on lunch break at work so im half in a rush. Ill fix the errors later if there are any.
2nd @ PTQ San Juan 2010 [RDW]
3rd @ Provincials 2011 [Solar Flare]
1st @ GPT Orlando 2011 [Mono G Wolf Run]
T8'd @ GPT LA 2012 [UW Delver]
T8'd @ GPT Vancouver 2012 [RW Humans]
T8'd @ GPT Toronto 2012 [UWR Midrange]
Attended GP Toronto 2012, but didn't get there [UR Twin]
Currently top 8'd every GPT I ever entered
Neo, I won't pretend to be experienced with the deck nearly as much as Dargaud, but I think I can field your Jund specific questions.
Negate doesn't seem necessary when the biggest spell you're worried about is Abrupt Decay. Sure you can counter Lili, but not much else. Remand is better against them anyway. Negate is for U/W, Tron, control and other combo.
Blood Moon on the play is an absolutely awesome card against Jund. On the draw, you probably don't want the full 3, but I could be wrong. The harder you make it for them to cast instant speed removal (esp. Decay), the easier it is for you to control the game and combo off in a timely manner. Spellskite also seems decent against Jund as it blocks most of their aggression and protects your combo as well.
Dargaud can correct me if I'm wrong, but just figured I'd chime in for now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
I'm not currently running the green splash (partially because it feels so wasteful to pick up the 2 green duals right now), but I'm not actually even sure I want it; affinity certainly feels like a good matchup. I rather like the maindeck, but there's definitely room for tweaking. Thought Scour is especially good with the Halimar depths, Snapcasters, and Lavamancers. As far as sideboard: I think 2 Spellskites is correct, as are the 2 Negates. Blood moon and Lavamancer both feel like 2-3. Slash seems worthwhile, don't know what more to say. Unsummon is cool, but I could see both removing or maining it. Relic is probably fine at 2, I might have 4-0'd if I brought it in for storm.
Well, there's still Dismember, but I guess the lifeloss is too much to handle, otherwise I'd immediately maindeck two copies. This is what I will test next.
I absolutely don't like Halimar Depths, as well. I saw Cifka running a few and they may do fine with thought scour, but to me the best utility land is one, that comes into play untapped and tapps for the mana of the right colour.
Nop. Munich is way too far away, but thanks.
Hi Dargaud, I've been converted to Splinter Twin thanks to your amazing evolution to the deck (mainly playing tempo with the Snapcasters, Remands and Bolts) and I am really, really thankful to you because as an avid RUG Delver player I was longing for a new good, competitive deck (Lingering Souls and too much Jund completely destroyed the Delver archetype imo), and I must say...
MAN, THIS DECK IS SOOOOOOO GOOD!!
I've seriously never won so much and so easily, merely remanding the opponent until they tapped out or I had Dispel backup... and then bam! Combo & instawin. Seriously, Twin is so amazingly good now.
Anyways, I'm also an avid brewer who likes to constantly try new things and innovate existing decks, although as we know usually the original one is still the best
So with that in mind I tested a few things which I'd love if you could try them too and see if they have any potential. From what I've played:
1) 4x Tarmogoyf: the deck still looks very streamlined and I took out the 2 Kikis, 1 land, and 1 random one-of while keeping all the usual 4x Remands, Bolts, Twins, etc to create a deck that certainly has some potential.
It plays remarkably similar to RUG Delver while retaining the cantripping ability and the power to combo at any moment.
Things I liked? Goyf puts some serious pressure against any deck and can easily win on its own, all while being an excellent blocker.
Things I didn't like: you either leave Remand mana or play this, and sometimes Goyf gets blocked by every damn creature in the format. It's "just" a vanilla 4/5 also.
2) 4x Deathrite Shaman: this was seriously interesting and I think could even have more potential. Deathrite allows for a potential T3 kill (Turn 1 shaman, Turn 2 exarch, Turn 3 splinter twin) while messing with the opponents mana (winning "Shaman wars" and tapping lands on T2 by playing Exarch), removing key creatures from yards (Pod), gaining life (Burn) and removing spells (Control & Snapcaster decks).
It also lets you play the tempo game much easier through a sea of blockers, by slowly draining the opponent for 2 like each turn.
The mana base is basically 1x Stomping Ground (which you alreasy have) and a Watery Grave instead of the Pool, both of which are easily fetchable
Test it when you have time and please tell me!
Cheers!
Edit: I forgot to say that obviously I have tested the Goyfs and Shamans separately, NOT together, in those "extra 4 slots"
The flame slash is partially for the hate that comes in, but more for maindeck threats (Game 2 you're much less likely to combo). It kills 3/4 goyfs, resto angels, etc.
I absolutely don't like Halimar Depths, as well. I saw Cifka running a few and they may do fine with thought scour, but to me the best utility land is one, that comes into play untapped and tapps for the mana of the right colour.
Halimar Depths is very strong, and I think I definitely want to run at least 1. It's not just the thought scours it's strong with, it makes the Serum Visions and the Fetches better. I recommend just sticking 1 or 2 in the deck next time you test: see if you think it's worthwhile.
1) 4x Tarmogoyf: the deck still looks very streamlined and I took out the 2 Kikis, 1 land, and 1 random one-of while keeping all the usual 4x Remands, Bolts, Twins, etc to create a deck that certainly has some potential.
It plays remarkably similar to RUG Delver while retaining the cantripping ability and the power to combo at any moment.
Things I liked? Goyf puts some serious pressure against any deck and can easily win on its own, all while being an excellent blocker.
Things I didn't like: you either leave Remand mana or play this, and sometimes Goyf gets blocked by every damn creature in the format. It's "just" a vanilla 4/5 also.
I wouldn't cut a land, but aside from that 2 (well actually 3) reasons I don't like Goyf here:
1. The 2 slot actually isn't as open as it looks. You will often double Cantrip, Cantrip with a 1cc instant open, or whatever. Also unless your 1 mana play was searching for a tapped shockland, you're going to be taking 3 damage, which is significant. You can't just force through a quick victory with any collection of cards like Jund can, if you don't combo you often really have to grind the games out.
2. In multiple matchups, the absolute best card in the 75 is Blood Moon. Several of the matchups it's strong in (like Jund) are also matchups where you'd want goyf. That leaves you with a couple pretty awkward choices: Play a basic forest, side out the goyfs, or just hope everything just kinda works out.
Bonus fake reason: I don't have them; I could probably borrow them for a tournament but I wouldn't be able to easily get tons of experience testing that version.
2) 4x Deathrite Shaman: this was seriously interesting and I think could even have more potential. Deathrite allows for a potential T3 kill (Turn 1 shaman, Turn 2 exarch, Turn 3 splinter twin) while messing with the opponents mana (winning "Shaman wars" and tapping lands on T2 by playing Exarch), removing key creatures from yards (Pod), gaining life (Burn) and removing spells (Control & Snapcaster decks).
It also lets you play the tempo game much easier through a sea of blockers, by slowly draining the opponent for 2 like each turn.
The mana base is basically 1x Stomping Ground (which you alreasy have) and a Watery Grave instead of the Pool, both of which are easily fetchable
Really don't think that's worth it... First, as I mentioned above, there's the blood moon issue; the mana fixing isn't worth breaking your mana for. Second, the spells you're removing will need to start coming out of your graveyard at some point, and those are snapcasterable targets. Finally, Grim Lavamancer is on-color and hits creatures, he is just too much better, and they don't play well together.
I see your point and it's probably true, still it's priceless to combo out on Turn 3 when the opponent has only played 2 lands and a lone Confidant xDD
On another topic, is Kiki really necessary?? I always find him very clunky and I usually have enough time to find the Splinter Twin or just kill them with my little creatures and bolts... don't know if our friend the Mirror Breaker is that good right know!
On another topic, is Kiki really necessary?? I always find him very clunky and I usually have enough time to find the Splinter Twin or just kill them with my little creatures and bolts... don't know if our friend the Mirror Breaker is that good right know!
It's kinda an opinion thing, I would understand cutting it, but Kiki does some important things:
-Dodges spellskite with deceiver exarch (if you choose permanent you control spellskite can't retarget).
-Allows you to play both pieces and win in a single turn (though at 7 mana).
-Allows you to get some value even while missing the other piece by copying Snapcaster
-Makes removal only a 1 for 1
-Gets past random hate (Qasali Pridemage, maybe enchantment hate for GW aura that people decide to bring in)
I only run one, but I wouldn't want to cut it, and I tend to side out splinter twins before Kiki.
It's kinda an opinion thing, I would understand cutting it, but Kiki does some important things:
-Dodges spellskite with deceiver exarch (if you choose permanent you control spellskite can't retarget).
-Allows you to play both pieces and win in a single turn (though at 7 mana).
-Allows you to get some value even while missing the other piece by copying Snapcaster
-Makes removal only a 1 for 1
-Gets past random hate (Qasali Pridemage, maybe enchantment hate for GW aura that people decide to bring in)
I only run one, but I wouldn't want to cut it, and I tend to side out splinter twins before Kiki.
Interesting! And one final question (I know, I know... xD) about the correct line of play:
I understand that this deck is as much tempo as it is combo, but I tend to try to combo as fast as possible, usually when it's safe. So with that in mind, what would it be best to do in the following scenario?
-You have Pestermite, Twin, Remand, and a land in hand. Three lands in play. Meaning you can combo next turn. I usually wait till EOT to slip the Pestermite, especially if they have tapped out, but some people have told me it's better to just play it upkeep and screw their mana by tapping a land... I guess this would be more correct if I DIDN'T have the other piece of the combo in hand right?
Just won an 8-man, facing Aura, Soul sisters, and the mirror.
Round 1, went 2-1 vs. G/W aura. Sided in the 2 spellskites and truth for Remands. Probably not worth devoting any more SB to this, the matchup is just a race, and I feel Twin is faster on average.
Round 2, won 2-0 vs. Soul Sisters. There's that little gimmick where a soul warden can prevent a deceiver win, but I just won with pestermite. Game 2 I sided in Lavamancers and Slashes for some Serum Visions and Deceivers I think. This feels like a great matchup.
Round 3, faced HAUMPH (Paul Cheon I think) in the mirror. He was running Izzet Charms and Snapcasters, no Thought Scours. Lost game 1, sided in 3 Lavamancers, 2 Negates, 2 Spellskites, 1 Unsummon for 2 Exarchs, 2 Splinter Twins, and some combination of 4 Remands/Serum Visions. Game 2 I landed a Spellskite and Lavamancer, while a couple snapcasters turned sideways. Game 3 I kept a 2 spell hand, landed an early Lavamancer and Pestermite, and just protected them. The lavamancer locked out Pestermites and Kiki, and all I needed to do was kill a deceiver and protect lavamancer to win.
-You have Pestermite, Twin, Remand, and a land in hand. Three lands in play. Meaning you can combo next turn. I usually wait till EOT to slip the Pestermite, especially if they have tapped out, but some people have told me it's better to just play it upkeep and screw their mana by tapping a land... I guess this would be more correct if I DIDN'T have the other piece of the combo in hand right?
I pretty much always wait til EOT unless the opponent is basically combo or ramp and the mana denial is a big deal. If it's game 1 they might even think you're storm or something and tap out instead of holding back a swords or something.
This is the list I'd play at the Magic Online PTQ tomorrow.
(decklist)
I don't think I like cavern or lighthouse. I have enough sketchy hands that really need plenty of blue mana to cast a lot of cantrips while keeping a dispel up or something. In your sideboard, I really feel 2 Spellskites are important, they are huge in burn, the mirror, the G/W aura deck, Jund, etc. I'm not actually sure I even like Pyroclasm to be honest. Misses a lot of good things and most good targets will just grow past it.
Seeing as boggles a deck now, I'm really liking cryptic command. Had a match today against it where I was at 1 life, but managed to cryptic stall with snapcasters for a couple turns and ended up using every part of the buffalo to eek out a win through Torpor Orb.
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
this seems wrong! i'd NEVER board out visions. they just increase your overall cardquality. don't do this. but gratz to the finish anyways.
It might be wrong! I'm not happy with all my sideboard plans. Here's my reasoning though: It's a pretty good matchup, and the way they beat me is with a Big Pridemate or Ascendant with removal. I want to be able to use red removal before things grow out of hand. Probably wrong though, don't know what would be better to cut.
I am giving those utility lands a test run. Maybe they're good, maybe not. At least they etb untapped which makes them better than Halimar Depths. I've had a few ppl tell me how good Desolate Lighthouse was for 'em. As I generally speaking like to prolong the game and have decided to cut down to 6 fetchlands I believe it's time to test some utility lands.
I can see lighthouse, but cavern feels bad. I just don't know who would want to counter the creature over the enchantment, except possibly snapcaster. Try it out, but just remember 2 colorless lands will mean you need to fetch untapped shocks a fair bit more often, and that's significant.
Cryptic Command is great. For a few weeks I've been running 3 Remand and 1 Cryptic and I will probably go back to that configuration, as well as it won me a lot of games.
1x Arid Mesa
2x Cascade Bluffs
3x Halimar Depths
3x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Mountain
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
2x Sulfur Falls
1x Watery Grave
4x Deceiver Exarch
4x Grim Lavamancer
2x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4x Pestermite
Instants
3x Dispel
3x Spell Pierce
Sorcery
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Serum Visions
4x Sleight of Hand
Enchantment
4x Splinter Twin
3x Ancient Grudge
3x Blood Moon
2x Cyclonic Rift
1x Dispel
2x Duress
1x Mizzium Skin
3x Spellskite
Retrieved from: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gplyo12/welcome#1
:symr:RG Karn Tron:symg:
:symu:UR Storm:symr:
1) What do you think about mizzium mortars instead of flame slash?
My reason for the former are as follows: On the first turn, you usually want to play a draw spell (or maybe a lavamancer). You could then follow your second turn with a mizzium mortars if necessary. The obvious benefit is the option of overloading when you draw the mortars late-game... But is that option worth 1 extra mana?
2) Why Grim Lavamancer(s) in this deck? I know the card is very powerful, & I want to include it in my mainboard, but I always find that other cards that actually help the combo are worth more in the main board slot. Though many top Splinter Twin decklists have 2-4x Grim Lavamancer in the MB. Can someone please enlighten me on the apparently beneficial MB Lavamancer inclusion?
3) Izzet Charm? I feel like that this card fits perfectly to aid in what our deck is trying to achieve. I cut two Gitaxian probes in my list for 2 charms, & I so far I like 'em. Though in my last games, I kept on having trouble with targeted discard (aka Jund matchup), and now Im considering spell pierce mainboard instead of the izzet charm (I normally run 2x spell pierce in the SB)... which brings me to:
4) What is our best option to fight targeted discard (thoughtseize & inquisition of kozilek)?
On Mizzium Mortars vs. Flame Slash: I'd probably still go with Flame Slash, as it's 1 mana cheaper and Spell Snare can't hit it. Also, Grim Lavamancer can do the multiple removal portion of Mizzium Mortars.
On Grim Lavamancer: I personally don't play him, but against fast aggro like Affinity and Infect, he can be invaluable. He's also decent against grindy decks like Delver and Jund. He also helps bring the beats if your Splinter Twins have been Slaughter Games'ed.
On Izzet Charm: I play 2 of that card in my build, and I no longer endorse Electrostatic Bolt because of this. (Seriously, all that card does is hit Spellskite at instant speed now.) It's pretty nifty, though I do agree that it basically can't head off targeted discard (unlike Spell Pierce).
On fighting targeted discard: Spell Pierce isn't bad. I've seen a few players splash black for their own targeted discard. There's also praying that your opponent is too slow to take advantage of you losing your best card, but then that Thoughtseize could just have been prep for a Slaughter Games...
Thanks for the reply!
Could you post your decklist when you get a chance? Im curious.. It's kinda sad that the best option against discard is spell pierce..
Do you run spell pierce main?
& also, how many, if any, gitaxian probes are you playing & why?
thanks again.
4 Cascade Bluffs
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
4 Island
2 Mountain
Creatures
4 Deceiver Exarch
3 Pestermite
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2 Spellskite
4 Splinter Twin
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Dispel
4 Remand
2 Izzet Charm
3 Flame Slash
1 Firespout
2 Pyroclasm
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Blood Moon
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Echoing Truth
2 Vines of Vastwood
So yeah, I play zero Gitaxian Probes maindeck. I still find Remand decent (people play all sorts of stuff on Cockatrice).
I don't get why people tend to run fewer than 4 Dispels. I almost treat it and Spellskite like a third combo piece. Against a lot of decks, being secure against removal is crucial.
I agree with 4x Dispel.. Though ~> no spell pierce at all?
How do you (or others) approach the jund matchup / 3 Inquisition & 3 thoughtseize without access to spell pierce?
I also have another question regarding the green splash in Twin:
Is the green splash really necessary?
Right now I'm running slagstorm instead of firespout. And instead of Ancient grudge i'm running steel sabotage (though if anyone has another recommendation of what I could run instead of ancient grudge, please let me know).
The green splash isn't 100% necessary, especially since Mizzium Skin can cover for Vines of Vastwood and Shattering Spree can play the role of Ancient Grudge (nigh-uncounterability and all).
Skite does a lot for the deck. It provides a wall on the ground, a burn spounge and a removal magnet all in one. Most importantly in the current meta it turns poison counters into life loss, by absorbing pump spells and shutting down infects super fast clock. You can also use lavamancer to take out the creatures, but skite does it for no future investment.
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
4 Exarch
3 Spellskite
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Kiki-jiki
4 Splinter twin
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
2 Dispel
2 Spell Pierce
3 Remand
2 Echoing Truth
1 Mizz Skin
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Sulfur Falls
3 Shivan Reef
2 Cascade Bluffs
2 Island
1 Mountain
3 blood moon
2 ancient grudge
2 v clique
1 spellpierce
2 relic
2 volcanic fallout
1 counterflux
1 combust
1 mizz skin
Hey guys this is my list for GP Toronto the weekend.
Any tips or suggestions would be great.
Sorry of there are any spelling errors, im on my phone and on lunch break at work so im half in a rush. Ill fix the errors later if there are any.
2nd @ PTQ San Juan 2010 [RDW]
3rd @ Provincials 2011 [Solar Flare]
1st @ GPT Orlando 2011 [Mono G Wolf Run]
T8'd @ GPT LA 2012 [UW Delver]
T8'd @ GPT Vancouver 2012 [RW Humans]
T8'd @ GPT Toronto 2012 [UWR Midrange]
Attended GP Toronto 2012, but didn't get there [UR Twin]
Currently top 8'd every GPT I ever entered
Negate doesn't seem necessary when the biggest spell you're worried about is Abrupt Decay. Sure you can counter Lili, but not much else. Remand is better against them anyway. Negate is for U/W, Tron, control and other combo.
Blood Moon on the play is an absolutely awesome card against Jund. On the draw, you probably don't want the full 3, but I could be wrong. The harder you make it for them to cast instant speed removal (esp. Decay), the easier it is for you to control the game and combo off in a timely manner. Spellskite also seems decent against Jund as it blocks most of their aggression and protects your combo as well.
Dargaud can correct me if I'm wrong, but just figured I'd chime in for now.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Here's what I ran:
2 Halimar Depths
2 Cascade Bluffs
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
5 Island
4 Mountain
Creatures
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Pestermite
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Splinter Twin
2 Dispel
1 Spell Pierce
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Remand
4 Serum Visions
3 Sleight of Hand
4 Thought Scour
1 Unsummon
1 Echoing Truth
2 Negate
2 Flash Slash
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Blood Moon
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Spellskite
I'm not currently running the green splash (partially because it feels so wasteful to pick up the 2 green duals right now), but I'm not actually even sure I want it; affinity certainly feels like a good matchup. I rather like the maindeck, but there's definitely room for tweaking. Thought Scour is especially good with the Halimar depths, Snapcasters, and Lavamancers. As far as sideboard: I think 2 Spellskites is correct, as are the 2 Negates. Blood moon and Lavamancer both feel like 2-3. Slash seems worthwhile, don't know what more to say. Unsummon is cool, but I could see both removing or maining it. Relic is probably fine at 2, I might have 4-0'd if I brought it in for storm.
Hi Dargaud, I've been converted to Splinter Twin thanks to your amazing evolution to the deck (mainly playing tempo with the Snapcasters, Remands and Bolts) and I am really, really thankful to you because as an avid RUG Delver player I was longing for a new good, competitive deck (Lingering Souls and too much Jund completely destroyed the Delver archetype imo), and I must say...
MAN, THIS DECK IS SOOOOOOO GOOD!!
I've seriously never won so much and so easily, merely remanding the opponent until they tapped out or I had Dispel backup... and then bam! Combo & instawin. Seriously, Twin is so amazingly good now.
Anyways, I'm also an avid brewer who likes to constantly try new things and innovate existing decks, although as we know usually the original one is still the best
So with that in mind I tested a few things which I'd love if you could try them too and see if they have any potential. From what I've played:
1) 4x Tarmogoyf: the deck still looks very streamlined and I took out the 2 Kikis, 1 land, and 1 random one-of while keeping all the usual 4x Remands, Bolts, Twins, etc to create a deck that certainly has some potential.
It plays remarkably similar to RUG Delver while retaining the cantripping ability and the power to combo at any moment.
Things I liked? Goyf puts some serious pressure against any deck and can easily win on its own, all while being an excellent blocker.
Things I didn't like: you either leave Remand mana or play this, and sometimes Goyf gets blocked by every damn creature in the format. It's "just" a vanilla 4/5 also.
2) 4x Deathrite Shaman: this was seriously interesting and I think could even have more potential. Deathrite allows for a potential T3 kill (Turn 1 shaman, Turn 2 exarch, Turn 3 splinter twin) while messing with the opponents mana (winning "Shaman wars" and tapping lands on T2 by playing Exarch), removing key creatures from yards (Pod), gaining life (Burn) and removing spells (Control & Snapcaster decks).
It also lets you play the tempo game much easier through a sea of blockers, by slowly draining the opponent for 2 like each turn.
The mana base is basically 1x Stomping Ground (which you alreasy have) and a Watery Grave instead of the Pool, both of which are easily fetchable
Test it when you have time and please tell me!
Cheers!
Edit: I forgot to say that obviously I have tested the Goyfs and Shamans separately, NOT together, in those "extra 4 slots"
Halimar Depths is very strong, and I think I definitely want to run at least 1. It's not just the thought scours it's strong with, it makes the Serum Visions and the Fetches better. I recommend just sticking 1 or 2 in the deck next time you test: see if you think it's worthwhile.
Partially sniped on this response, but...
I wouldn't cut a land, but aside from that 2 (well actually 3) reasons I don't like Goyf here:
1. The 2 slot actually isn't as open as it looks. You will often double Cantrip, Cantrip with a 1cc instant open, or whatever. Also unless your 1 mana play was searching for a tapped shockland, you're going to be taking 3 damage, which is significant. You can't just force through a quick victory with any collection of cards like Jund can, if you don't combo you often really have to grind the games out.
2. In multiple matchups, the absolute best card in the 75 is Blood Moon. Several of the matchups it's strong in (like Jund) are also matchups where you'd want goyf. That leaves you with a couple pretty awkward choices: Play a basic forest, side out the goyfs, or just hope everything just kinda works out.
Bonus fake reason: I don't have them; I could probably borrow them for a tournament but I wouldn't be able to easily get tons of experience testing that version.
Really don't think that's worth it... First, as I mentioned above, there's the blood moon issue; the mana fixing isn't worth breaking your mana for. Second, the spells you're removing will need to start coming out of your graveyard at some point, and those are snapcasterable targets. Finally, Grim Lavamancer is on-color and hits creatures, he is just too much better, and they don't play well together.
I see your point and it's probably true, still it's priceless to combo out on Turn 3 when the opponent has only played 2 lands and a lone Confidant xDD
On another topic, is Kiki really necessary?? I always find him very clunky and I usually have enough time to find the Splinter Twin or just kill them with my little creatures and bolts... don't know if our friend the Mirror Breaker is that good right know!
It's kinda an opinion thing, I would understand cutting it, but Kiki does some important things:
-Dodges spellskite with deceiver exarch (if you choose permanent you control spellskite can't retarget).
-Allows you to play both pieces and win in a single turn (though at 7 mana).
-Allows you to get some value even while missing the other piece by copying Snapcaster
-Makes removal only a 1 for 1
-Gets past random hate (Qasali Pridemage, maybe enchantment hate for GW aura that people decide to bring in)
I only run one, but I wouldn't want to cut it, and I tend to side out splinter twins before Kiki.
Interesting! And one final question (I know, I know... xD) about the correct line of play:
I understand that this deck is as much tempo as it is combo, but I tend to try to combo as fast as possible, usually when it's safe. So with that in mind, what would it be best to do in the following scenario?
-You have Pestermite, Twin, Remand, and a land in hand. Three lands in play. Meaning you can combo next turn. I usually wait till EOT to slip the Pestermite, especially if they have tapped out, but some people have told me it's better to just play it upkeep and screw their mana by tapping a land... I guess this would be more correct if I DIDN'T have the other piece of the combo in hand right?
Round 1, went 2-1 vs. G/W aura. Sided in the 2 spellskites and truth for Remands. Probably not worth devoting any more SB to this, the matchup is just a race, and I feel Twin is faster on average.
Round 2, won 2-0 vs. Soul Sisters. There's that little gimmick where a soul warden can prevent a deceiver win, but I just won with pestermite. Game 2 I sided in Lavamancers and Slashes for some Serum Visions and Deceivers I think. This feels like a great matchup.
Round 3, faced HAUMPH (Paul Cheon I think) in the mirror. He was running Izzet Charms and Snapcasters, no Thought Scours. Lost game 1, sided in 3 Lavamancers, 2 Negates, 2 Spellskites, 1 Unsummon for 2 Exarchs, 2 Splinter Twins, and some combination of 4 Remands/Serum Visions. Game 2 I landed a Spellskite and Lavamancer, while a couple snapcasters turned sideways. Game 3 I kept a 2 spell hand, landed an early Lavamancer and Pestermite, and just protected them. The lavamancer locked out Pestermites and Kiki, and all I needed to do was kill a deceiver and protect lavamancer to win.
I pretty much always wait til EOT unless the opponent is basically combo or ramp and the mana denial is a big deal. If it's game 1 they might even think you're storm or something and tap out instead of holding back a swords or something.
I don't think I like cavern or lighthouse. I have enough sketchy hands that really need plenty of blue mana to cast a lot of cantrips while keeping a dispel up or something. In your sideboard, I really feel 2 Spellskites are important, they are huge in burn, the mirror, the G/W aura deck, Jund, etc. I'm not actually sure I even like Pyroclasm to be honest. Misses a lot of good things and most good targets will just grow past it.
It might be wrong! I'm not happy with all my sideboard plans. Here's my reasoning though: It's a pretty good matchup, and the way they beat me is with a Big Pridemate or Ascendant with removal. I want to be able to use red removal before things grow out of hand. Probably wrong though, don't know what would be better to cut.
I can see lighthouse, but cavern feels bad. I just don't know who would want to counter the creature over the enchantment, except possibly snapcaster. Try it out, but just remember 2 colorless lands will mean you need to fetch untapped shocks a fair bit more often, and that's significant.
Yeah, I'll need to start trying it.