Yep I like the Desolate Lighthouses although I hope they don't color screw you too much... and I see you substituted the Sleights for Thought Scours, on Stanislav Cifka's advice I guess. I must say I love the Sleights although the instaspeed of the Scours could be very relevant indeed.
Good luck tomorrow (definitely rooting for Splinter Twin at the PTQ ) and let's see how your adjustments go!
Hrm, note regarding the Serum Vision thing, I'm running 4 Thought Scour, 3 Sleight, 4 Serum, so cutting 3 still leaves me with 8 cantrips.
Thought Scour is super great. It does does 3 very important things (for me at least).
1. Gives more Snapcaster targets.
2. Combos with Halimar Depths (As a bonus you can target the opponent if you want everything).
3. By far the most important, infinite food for Lavamancer!
Has anyone ever tried Peek? I just gave it a try because I really wanted some instant speed card draw and replaced the sleight of hands with it. I liked it a lot, although I wouldn't run 4 of it, but maybe 2 Peek 2 Sleight. EOT its really good to know if ur fragile Pestermite/Kiki combo will work out next turn or not!
I was going to ask why in the world would you run Peek instead of Gitaxian Probe, but then I noticed it's an instant... might be interesting! instead of Thought Scour to see if it's safe to go off, etc
Needs testing for sure
I also got inspired by a thread in the main Modern forum... Twisted Image could be some amazing tech for twin, since it fills the "instant cantrip" slot and actually kills SPELLSKITE and important creatures like mana dorks, etc.
The thing I don't like is that obviously you need to actually target a creature with it.
I was going to ask why in the world would you run Peek instead of Gitaxian Probe, but then I noticed it's an instant... might be interesting! instead of Thought Scour to see if it's safe to go off, etc
Needs testing for sure
I also got inspired by a thread in the main Modern forum... Twisted Image could be some amazing tech for twin, since it fills the "instant cantrip" slot and actually kills SPELLSKITE and important creatures like mana dorks, etc.
The thing I don't like is that obviously you need to actually target a creature with it.
When I played Twin in Standard, and Spellskites were in every SB (and some mainboards), I had 3x Twisted Image in my SB. That card never let me down.
I think you really need 6-8 filtering cantrips (Sleight/Serum) just because with 23 lands you'll end up with a lot of 2 land openers that need 4 lands on turn 4. As far as instant speed cantrips, Thought Scour is really the only way you can make a Lavamancer a reliable clock. Twisted Image is interesting, but there's enough instant removal in this format that you risk giving the opponent a 2 for 1.
Is there a good list with no kikki-jikkis? I'm suddenly interested in this list, and decklist recommendations would be quite nice if I do say so myself.
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Is there a good list with no kikki-jikkis? I'm suddenly interested in this list, and decklist recommendations would be quite nice if I do say so myself.
If you really hate kiki-jiki you could survive without him, but it's basically wrong. He lets you combo out against a spellskite or after a slaughter games, and he can give some card advantage with a snapcaster mage before shifting into a combo role.
As far as lists, I'll just break down what I see as important.
23 Lands:
0-2 Halimar Depths (Thought scour makes this a lot stronger)
4 Scalding Tarn
2-4 Misty Rainforest - I like 2, with Serum Visions and Halimar Depths, there are a lot of times you don't want to shuffle.
2-3 Sulfur Falls
2 Cascade Bluffs - 2 feels perfect, it's kinda clunky with all the 1 mana spells, but is needed for Twin/Kiki and the number of basics
2-3 Steam Vents - 2 if you run the green splash, 3 otherwise
0-2 Green splash shocks
Basic Mountains and Islands - You want more Islands because of blood moon, but 3-4 Mountains is alright
Creatures
1 Kiki-Jiki
4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Pestermite - some people cut a pestermite, but it's really good when you're playing a tempo game
4 Snapcaster Mage
Spells
4 Splinter Twin
6-8 Card selection cantrips (Serum Visions/Sleight of Hand)
0-4 Thought Scour - This makes Snapcaster and Lavamancer really good
3-4 Lightning Bolt
3-4 Remand
0-2 Dispel
0-2 Spell Pierce
0-4 Flex slots
I can definitely get behind lavamancer main, it feels like I side it in majority of games. Sleight of hand has also been somewhat underwhelming (mostly because it doesn't work too well after scrying), so I don't mind cutting that.
What's your plan against Jund? Just the wurmcoils and blood moons? Do you side out the combo? I'm still not sure I feel the pyroclasm though. As far as grave hate, I think I like relic more than extraction, mostly because it counters Past in Flames.
e: oh wow, Grim Lavamancer is so amazing main. Have no idea why I thought it should start SB.
My plan against Jund is now: -2 Pestermite -1 Kiki-Jiki, -2 Dispel -> +2 Blood Moon +1 Pyroclasm (was never disappointed by pyroclasm therefore cutting it seems wrong ) +2 Wurmcoil Engine.
I feel pretty comfortable with the Jund Matchup now. Having 2 more cards that single-handedly win the game is really cool.
Hm. I think I disagree with what you're siding out a bit. After quite a lot of frustrating games, I've started to cut back on the splinter twins (down to 1 copy seems alright actually). You need to interact, and with Thoughtseize, Inquisition, so much spot removal, and most importantly Liliana, there just isn't an opportunity to sculpt a hand and protect the combo. I actually think pestermites are especially valuable against Jund. They can kill a +1'd Liliana with the help of a bolt (or Lavamancer activation), and the damage is very relevant (especially how they don't offer Bob a way to chump).
I just dont like removing my own graveyard and aside from countering Past in Flames, Relic seems to have no upsides.
Storm can win on turn 3, even through countermagic if they have PiF and a bit of luck. It's kinda a scary matchup, and I want to have as many ways to stop them as possible. Relic is also the only way to stop them after a silence. Also drawing a card definitely counts as an upside.
I originally only sided out 2 copies in the mirror (because spellskites are running around, and it's just too dangerous to tap out), but had an especially bad a streak of losses against Jund that played out the same way (got wrecked by discard+removal). So many of their cards just ruin you for trying to enchant creatures. Jund kinda hurts itself already, so just being aggressive feels like the most direct route.
Hey guys, I had been playing around with a few different decks in modern, and I settled on Twin. The deck has my favorite card in it (Kiki-Jiki) and I love my infinite combos. I brought the deck to a LGS last night and went 1-2. I tried to bring a vanilla list because I had no idea what I would be playing against. I ended up beating a Boros Landfall deck, and lost to Jund, and Junk Hatebears (that had a MB Linvala)
The Echoing Truths MB were awesome. The tempo from bouncing multiples Tarmogoyfs was very satisfying. I don't know if I would always MB the Spellskites, but not knowing what I was going against I thought it would be nice against some of the less expensive decks in the format (Infect, Aura Bogle, etc)
Blood Moon was awesome in the matchups I played, and Trickbind was nice as well. Trickbind was originally in there for Storm/Combo matchups, but I ended up using it a few times on Jund's fetchland triggers.
After playing the deck I know I definitely want to fit Grim Lavamancer x 2 somewhere in the 75, but are there any other glaring ommisions?
After playing the deck I know I definitely want to fit Grim Lavamancer x 2 somewhere in the 75, but are there any other glaring ommisions?
That list doesn't seem to be able to win reliably without the combo, and some decks (Jund) have way too much removal for the combo to work game 2. The Snapcaster lists are less likely to combo T4, but you have actual card advantage, which is needed to be able to win games that go long.
Also the sideboard looks pretty bad. I'd definitely prefer negate over trickbind, helps stop big things in a lot more matchups. Volcanic Fallout and Pithing Needle also seem mediocre..
I would run 4x Scalding Tarn (cutting basics) if I wanted to spend the money on them, I definitely feel that would improve the deck. If I had fetch-lands, I would probably fit in a Lavamancer or two in the side.
The way I want my game-ones to go is that I want my focus to be on comboing, and so that's my mainboard plan. Some people prefer a more controlling game one with more counters and snapcasters and things like that - but I don't think that's nearly as good as a combo-centric mainboard. Things like snapcaster mage and cryptic command do absolutely nothing for you when you actually try to combo, unless it's turn 7-8. And they don't do a great job of helping you get that late either, since they don't turn on at all until turn 4 or so.
Anyway, the main ways people stop me in game one is with instant-speed removal, so I wanted 4 dispels in the main. CMC-2 countermagic just doesn't cut it for protecting my combo - it's too slow - and besides that, mana leak and remand are pretty close to dead cards if the game goes past turn 7 or so, and aren't great at dealing with 1-2 CMC hate when I actually combo (people are smart enough to not tap mana unnecessarily, because by the time I'm ready to combo, the have plenty of pressure on-board).
The spellskites are also great for dealing with the types of hate people have in game one. The flame slashes are because mainboard spellskite is a real thing, and many pod lists also have mainboard Linvala as well. At worst, they a slightly-worse bolt.
Izzet charm is just a really good spell in the combo-control deck that Twin usually is. I prefer to use it to loot, but in a pinch I'm quite fine to kill deathrite/bob/bird/hierarch/bloodbraid/etc or use it as spell-pierce.
The only thing I feel my game-one is somewhat weak to is discard (inquisition/thoughtseize) but the best ways to deal with that (spell pierce is pretty good) are generally very bad outside of that specific situation.
In the side, the spreading seas should probably become blood moons. The gigadrowse is something I'm trying out, it might end up as another echoing truth. Echoing truth always comes in, 100% of the time, since people are starting to run colorless answers like Torpor Orb and Damping Matrix in response to a rise in Twin on MTGO, and my main cannot deal with a resolved card like that. As I mentioned above, my game-one is slightly weak to Jund, but a lot of the sideboard is great for Jund. I'm thinking of cutting the mizzium skins, as they were only there for dealing with abrupt decay, but I just would rather bring in other things against Jund anyway - I'll probably change them to affinity hate (shattering spree). The Negates are awesome since control is becoming popular, and they are also great for scapeshift. Relics come in against anything that uses the graveyard, including Jund (without deathrite and goyf, it's a lot harder for jund to actually kill you) and Storm. Probes often come out for cards better for the specific matchup. When I'm expecting slaughter games, I often bring out a Twin, and the Izzet Charms do come out against decks with discard because the hand-size decrease when combined with opponent's discard makes getting the combo+protection really hard.
All really fair criticism, thanks guys. I've read how a few of you are using a tempo attack instead of going all out combo and it does seem like it would be much more consistent (and resilient to side boarding).
After testing a bit with the snapcaster version, i have found that i would rather play only 3 snapcaster because they are quite bad in some MU (especially combo ones, more generally the ones you don't want to grind out the game). Moreover, they often get worse in multiple.
I absolutely disagree. Multiple snapcaster is absolutely fine. You have just so many options, and a lot of reach by flashing back bolts and swinging. I'm currently running 4 Thought Scour and 2 Spell Pierce though, which makes multiples a lot better.
Also what do you think of gitaxian probe? I am trying a 4 serum/3 sleight/2 probe split for my cantrips but i am not sure what is better between probe or thought scour. Being instant speed is definitely good with snapcaster but probe allows for turn 2 snapcaster action which is good also. I have found the information given by probe very valuable because it often allows you to combo earlier that you would have done without knowing your opponent's hand and thus prevent topdecks.
There's a fundamental problem there. Aside from feeling that's pretty much just a huge waste of a snapcaster, if you're going for a flashed back probe t2, that generally means you just used it t1! The only time I'd cast a t2 snapcaster would be to block something troublesome (maybe Electromancer or Goblin Guide), and probe would also be useless there.
I would run 4x Scalding Tarn (cutting basics) if I wanted to spend the money on them, I definitely feel that would improve the deck. If I had fetch-lands, I would probably fit in a Lavamancer or two in the side..
I'd cut Halimar Depths if you don't have fetches. They're kinda still alright with Serum Visions but it isn't worth it if you can't just shuffle away lands for free. Lavamancer's sweet but you probably want thought scours to go with him.
Anyway, the main ways people stop me in game one is with instant-speed removal, so I wanted 4 dispels in the main. CMC-2 countermagic just doesn't cut it for protecting my combo - it's too slow - and besides that, mana leak and remand are pretty close to dead cards if the game goes past turn 7 or so, and aren't great at dealing with 1-2 CMC hate when I actually combo (people are smart enough to not tap mana unnecessarily, because by the time I'm ready to combo, the have plenty of pressure on-board).
If you're all in on the combo you are pretty dead to Thoughtseize->Liliana, or Tarmogoyf->Abrupt Decay in hand. There are plenty of situations where you just can't realistically combo, and then dispel ends up pretty dead.
I'd cut Halimar Depths if you don't have fetches. They're kinda still alright with Serum Visions but it isn't worth it if you can't just shuffle away lands for free. Lavamancer's sweet but you probably want thought scours to go with him.
Fair point, I'll try without the depths and see how it goes.
If you're all in on the combo you are pretty dead to Thoughtseize->Liliana, or Tarmogoyf->Abrupt Decay in hand. There are plenty of situations where you just can't realistically combo, and then dispel ends up pretty dead.
As far as abrupt decay, how do you suggest dealing with it in game 1? I already have 2 spellskites, counters don't help. The only thing I can think of that could help really is more cantrips to find another combo-piece faster after losing one to abrupt decay. Being able to win without the combo isn't realistic against jund, either.
I did admit that my game-one is somewhat weak to discard, especially thoughtsieze on turn 2-3 (turn 1 discard not very scary as my hand quality improves a lot over the first turn or two from playing lands and cantripping). But I'm pretty doubtful that taking a controlling role as Twin can work against jund, since jund just has better cards than blue-control (perhaps outside of cryptic). Looking at recent lists in this thread, people don't seem to be playing cards that increase number of cards in hand, which means that everyone is fairly weak to a resolved Liliana. I guess having snapcasters means you can attack Liliana more easily, though it's still fairly awkward, and there's a reasonable chance that the snapcaster just eats a removal spell or runs into a goyf. Anyway, despite having 4 dispels, I do have 6 counterspells that hit Lilianas and Thoughtseizes (Izzet Charm, Mana Leak, Remand; remand pretty awful at hitting thoughtsieze though).
I used to run spell pierce to better deal with Lil/discard, but I felt it was dead far too often - completely dead in most matchups after turn 4, and mainly there for two of Jund's threats but completely useless at saving me from dying to their powerful creatures or losing to abrupt decay.
As far as abrupt decay, how do you suggest dealing with it in game 1? I already have 2 spellskites, counters don't help. The only thing I can think of that could help really is more cantrips to find another combo-piece faster after losing one to abrupt decay. Being able to win without the combo isn't realistic against jund, either.
Being able to kill without the combo is more realistic than trying to sculpt a hand that can deal with removal before they win. Abrupt decay isn't so great if they only kill a single target. The important thing is to realize Jund's gameplan: they make 1-for-1 trades with discard and removal and then use Confidant, Liliana, and Bloodbraid Elf to gain card advantage. The best way to beat it is to have better card advantage, and that's where Snapcaster Mage and Grim Lavamancer really shine. It's still not an autowin, but I feel much more confidant when I have the ability to burn them out.
Another 3-1 daily report thing just because:
R1: Jund, 1-2:
G1 was largely my fault. I kept a lot of lands and got thoughtseized. G2 A Lavamancer stayed around and multiple creatures (he was probably holding back removal for the combo), and he couldn't recover. G3 I couldn't beat 3 discard spells+Goyf. Felt pretty terrible losing that soon.
R2: UWR Resto Angel Snapcaster deck, 2-0:
He had to use removal on lavamancers and eventually I comboed. Only 1 game because the game went very long and he couldn't have won 2 games in the remaining time.
R3 Affinity, 2-0:
I was able to burn out every single creature both games. I've lost this matchup before, but it feels very favorable.
R4 Storm, 2-0:
I had creatures and multiple counters both games, and that was basically it. Spell pierce was actually live all game (on the initial spell) due to their low land count.
Good luck tomorrow (definitely rooting for Splinter Twin at the PTQ ) and let's see how your adjustments go!
:p:p:p
Thought Scour is super great. It does does 3 very important things (for me at least).
1. Gives more Snapcaster targets.
2. Combos with Halimar Depths (As a bonus you can target the opponent if you want everything).
3. By far the most important, infinite food for Lavamancer!
I was going to ask why in the world would you run Peek instead of Gitaxian Probe, but then I noticed it's an instant... might be interesting! instead of Thought Scour to see if it's safe to go off, etc
Needs testing for sure
I also got inspired by a thread in the main Modern forum... Twisted Image could be some amazing tech for twin, since it fills the "instant cantrip" slot and actually kills SPELLSKITE and important creatures like mana dorks, etc.
The thing I don't like is that obviously you need to actually target a creature with it.
When I played Twin in Standard, and Spellskites were in every SB (and some mainboards), I had 3x Twisted Image in my SB. That card never let me down.
Legacy:WDeath and TaxesW W45-L16-D11 8 Top 8s 15th Scg Oakland
Current Kiln Fiend Count: 153 Please message me if you want to trade me or give me some.
Commission Rezombied to alter some cards, he's awesome!
http://dominaria.com/2012/12/seguimos-hablando-de-modern/
If you really hate kiki-jiki you could survive without him, but it's basically wrong. He lets you combo out against a spellskite or after a slaughter games, and he can give some card advantage with a snapcaster mage before shifting into a combo role.
As far as lists, I'll just break down what I see as important.
23 Lands:
0-2 Halimar Depths (Thought scour makes this a lot stronger)
4 Scalding Tarn
2-4 Misty Rainforest - I like 2, with Serum Visions and Halimar Depths, there are a lot of times you don't want to shuffle.
2-3 Sulfur Falls
2 Cascade Bluffs - 2 feels perfect, it's kinda clunky with all the 1 mana spells, but is needed for Twin/Kiki and the number of basics
2-3 Steam Vents - 2 if you run the green splash, 3 otherwise
0-2 Green splash shocks
Basic Mountains and Islands - You want more Islands because of blood moon, but 3-4 Mountains is alright
Creatures
1 Kiki-Jiki
4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Pestermite - some people cut a pestermite, but it's really good when you're playing a tempo game
4 Snapcaster Mage
Spells
4 Splinter Twin
6-8 Card selection cantrips (Serum Visions/Sleight of Hand)
0-4 Thought Scour - This makes Snapcaster and Lavamancer really good
3-4 Lightning Bolt
3-4 Remand
0-2 Dispel
0-2 Spell Pierce
0-4 Flex slots
Sideboard
2-3 Blood Moon
2-3 Grim Lavamancer
2-3 Spellskite
1-2 Echoing Truth
1-2 Relic of Progenitus
0-2 Ancient Grudge
0-2 Flame Slash
0-1 Cryptic Command
0-2 Negate
0-1 Pyroclasm
0-3 Secret Tech
I can definitely get behind lavamancer main, it feels like I side it in majority of games. Sleight of hand has also been somewhat underwhelming (mostly because it doesn't work too well after scrying), so I don't mind cutting that.
What's your plan against Jund? Just the wurmcoils and blood moons? Do you side out the combo? I'm still not sure I feel the pyroclasm though. As far as grave hate, I think I like relic more than extraction, mostly because it counters Past in Flames.
e: oh wow, Grim Lavamancer is so amazing main. Have no idea why I thought it should start SB.
Hm. I think I disagree with what you're siding out a bit. After quite a lot of frustrating games, I've started to cut back on the splinter twins (down to 1 copy seems alright actually). You need to interact, and with Thoughtseize, Inquisition, so much spot removal, and most importantly Liliana, there just isn't an opportunity to sculpt a hand and protect the combo. I actually think pestermites are especially valuable against Jund. They can kill a +1'd Liliana with the help of a bolt (or Lavamancer activation), and the damage is very relevant (especially how they don't offer Bob a way to chump).
Storm can win on turn 3, even through countermagic if they have PiF and a bit of luck. It's kinda a scary matchup, and I want to have as many ways to stop them as possible. Relic is also the only way to stop them after a silence. Also drawing a card definitely counts as an upside.
For reference, this is the deck I brought:
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Sulfur Falls
1 Desolate Lighthouse
6 Island
3 Mountain
3 Pestermite
4 Deceiver Exarch
3 Spellskite
4 Splinter Twin
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
2 Telling Time
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Izzet Charm
3 Echoing Truth
2 Dispel
The Echoing Truths MB were awesome. The tempo from bouncing multiples Tarmogoyfs was very satisfying. I don't know if I would always MB the Spellskites, but not knowing what I was going against I thought it would be nice against some of the less expensive decks in the format (Infect, Aura Bogle, etc)
This is what I brought for a sideboard:
3 Volcanic Fallout
3 Trickbind
3 Pithing Needle
3 Relic of Progenitus
Blood Moon was awesome in the matchups I played, and Trickbind was nice as well. Trickbind was originally in there for Storm/Combo matchups, but I ended up using it a few times on Jund's fetchland triggers.
After playing the deck I know I definitely want to fit Grim Lavamancer x 2 somewhere in the 75, but are there any other glaring ommisions?
Currently Playing:
Modern:
Tron
Titan-Shift
That list doesn't seem to be able to win reliably without the combo, and some decks (Jund) have way too much removal for the combo to work game 2. The Snapcaster lists are less likely to combo T4, but you have actual card advantage, which is needed to be able to win games that go long.
Also the sideboard looks pretty bad. I'd definitely prefer negate over trickbind, helps stop big things in a lot more matchups. Volcanic Fallout and Pithing Needle also seem mediocre..
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Splinter Twin
4 Deceiver Exarch
3 Pertermite
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Serum Vision
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
3 Dispel
2 Echoing Truth
4x Deceiver Exarch
3x Pestermite
4x Splinter Twin
2x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
General Protection
2x Spellskite
2x Flame Slash
Counter-magic
2x Mana Leak
2x Remand
4x Dispel
2x Izzet Charm
2x Gitaxian Probe
4x Sleight of Hand
4x Serum Visions
4x Steam Vents
4x Sulfur Falls
2x Halimar Depths
5x Island
6x Mountain
2x Desolate Lighthouse
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Pyroclasm
1x Echoing Truth
2x Negate
2x Spreading Seas
2x Lightning Bolt
1x Twisted Image
2x Mizzium Skin
1x Gigadrowse
I would run 4x Scalding Tarn (cutting basics) if I wanted to spend the money on them, I definitely feel that would improve the deck. If I had fetch-lands, I would probably fit in a Lavamancer or two in the side.
The way I want my game-ones to go is that I want my focus to be on comboing, and so that's my mainboard plan. Some people prefer a more controlling game one with more counters and snapcasters and things like that - but I don't think that's nearly as good as a combo-centric mainboard. Things like snapcaster mage and cryptic command do absolutely nothing for you when you actually try to combo, unless it's turn 7-8. And they don't do a great job of helping you get that late either, since they don't turn on at all until turn 4 or so.
Anyway, the main ways people stop me in game one is with instant-speed removal, so I wanted 4 dispels in the main. CMC-2 countermagic just doesn't cut it for protecting my combo - it's too slow - and besides that, mana leak and remand are pretty close to dead cards if the game goes past turn 7 or so, and aren't great at dealing with 1-2 CMC hate when I actually combo (people are smart enough to not tap mana unnecessarily, because by the time I'm ready to combo, the have plenty of pressure on-board).
The spellskites are also great for dealing with the types of hate people have in game one. The flame slashes are because mainboard spellskite is a real thing, and many pod lists also have mainboard Linvala as well. At worst, they a slightly-worse bolt.
Izzet charm is just a really good spell in the combo-control deck that Twin usually is. I prefer to use it to loot, but in a pinch I'm quite fine to kill deathrite/bob/bird/hierarch/bloodbraid/etc or use it as spell-pierce.
The only thing I feel my game-one is somewhat weak to is discard (inquisition/thoughtseize) but the best ways to deal with that (spell pierce is pretty good) are generally very bad outside of that specific situation.
In the side, the spreading seas should probably become blood moons. The gigadrowse is something I'm trying out, it might end up as another echoing truth. Echoing truth always comes in, 100% of the time, since people are starting to run colorless answers like Torpor Orb and Damping Matrix in response to a rise in Twin on MTGO, and my main cannot deal with a resolved card like that. As I mentioned above, my game-one is slightly weak to Jund, but a lot of the sideboard is great for Jund. I'm thinking of cutting the mizzium skins, as they were only there for dealing with abrupt decay, but I just would rather bring in other things against Jund anyway - I'll probably change them to affinity hate (shattering spree). The Negates are awesome since control is becoming popular, and they are also great for scapeshift. Relics come in against anything that uses the graveyard, including Jund (without deathrite and goyf, it's a lot harder for jund to actually kill you) and Storm. Probes often come out for cards better for the specific matchup. When I'm expecting slaughter games, I often bring out a Twin, and the Izzet Charms do come out against decks with discard because the hand-size decrease when combined with opponent's discard makes getting the combo+protection really hard.
My decks:
-Modern UWR gifts control
-Modern Mono-G aggro elves
-Azami, Lady of Scrolls EDH
-Glissa the Traitor EDH
-Modern UWR Counterbalance Control
-Modern UW enchantment control: primer, on tapped out
-Modern regular UWR control
Currently Playing:
Modern:
Tron
Titan-Shift
I absolutely disagree. Multiple snapcaster is absolutely fine. You have just so many options, and a lot of reach by flashing back bolts and swinging. I'm currently running 4 Thought Scour and 2 Spell Pierce though, which makes multiples a lot better.
There's a fundamental problem there. Aside from feeling that's pretty much just a huge waste of a snapcaster, if you're going for a flashed back probe t2, that generally means you just used it t1! The only time I'd cast a t2 snapcaster would be to block something troublesome (maybe Electromancer or Goblin Guide), and probe would also be useless there.
I'd cut Halimar Depths if you don't have fetches. They're kinda still alright with Serum Visions but it isn't worth it if you can't just shuffle away lands for free. Lavamancer's sweet but you probably want thought scours to go with him.
If you're all in on the combo you are pretty dead to Thoughtseize->Liliana, or Tarmogoyf->Abrupt Decay in hand. There are plenty of situations where you just can't realistically combo, and then dispel ends up pretty dead.
Fair point, I'll try without the depths and see how it goes.
As far as abrupt decay, how do you suggest dealing with it in game 1? I already have 2 spellskites, counters don't help. The only thing I can think of that could help really is more cantrips to find another combo-piece faster after losing one to abrupt decay. Being able to win without the combo isn't realistic against jund, either.
I did admit that my game-one is somewhat weak to discard, especially thoughtsieze on turn 2-3 (turn 1 discard not very scary as my hand quality improves a lot over the first turn or two from playing lands and cantripping). But I'm pretty doubtful that taking a controlling role as Twin can work against jund, since jund just has better cards than blue-control (perhaps outside of cryptic). Looking at recent lists in this thread, people don't seem to be playing cards that increase number of cards in hand, which means that everyone is fairly weak to a resolved Liliana. I guess having snapcasters means you can attack Liliana more easily, though it's still fairly awkward, and there's a reasonable chance that the snapcaster just eats a removal spell or runs into a goyf. Anyway, despite having 4 dispels, I do have 6 counterspells that hit Lilianas and Thoughtseizes (Izzet Charm, Mana Leak, Remand; remand pretty awful at hitting thoughtsieze though).
I used to run spell pierce to better deal with Lil/discard, but I felt it was dead far too often - completely dead in most matchups after turn 4, and mainly there for two of Jund's threats but completely useless at saving me from dying to their powerful creatures or losing to abrupt decay.
My decks:
-Modern UWR gifts control
-Modern Mono-G aggro elves
-Azami, Lady of Scrolls EDH
-Glissa the Traitor EDH
-Modern UWR Counterbalance Control
-Modern UW enchantment control: primer, on tapped out
-Modern regular UWR control
Being able to kill without the combo is more realistic than trying to sculpt a hand that can deal with removal before they win. Abrupt decay isn't so great if they only kill a single target. The important thing is to realize Jund's gameplan: they make 1-for-1 trades with discard and removal and then use Confidant, Liliana, and Bloodbraid Elf to gain card advantage. The best way to beat it is to have better card advantage, and that's where Snapcaster Mage and Grim Lavamancer really shine. It's still not an autowin, but I feel much more confidant when I have the ability to burn them out.
Another 3-1 daily report thing just because:
R1: Jund, 1-2:
G1 was largely my fault. I kept a lot of lands and got thoughtseized. G2 A Lavamancer stayed around and multiple creatures (he was probably holding back removal for the combo), and he couldn't recover. G3 I couldn't beat 3 discard spells+Goyf. Felt pretty terrible losing that soon.
R2: UWR Resto Angel Snapcaster deck, 2-0:
He had to use removal on lavamancers and eventually I comboed. Only 1 game because the game went very long and he couldn't have won 2 games in the remaining time.
R3 Affinity, 2-0:
I was able to burn out every single creature both games. I've lost this matchup before, but it feels very favorable.
R4 Storm, 2-0:
I had creatures and multiple counters both games, and that was basically it. Spell pierce was actually live all game (on the initial spell) due to their low land count.
Is this still your decklist: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9545605&postcount=41 ?
Modern
RUBW Affinity
BGR Midrange
UWR Control
RG Titan Shift
RW Burn
GW Bogles
G Tron