I think there are 2 creatures that are missing from consideration on this primer.
1: Kavu Predator- If you are playing Grove+Pfire asthis deck should be, this guy can easily outpace tarmogoyf quickly. Even if you haven't played a punishing fire yet, you can float red or green mana in response to removal to try to get him out of range of it. Trample is a plus that can make it even better than goyf in a pinch.
2:Boggart Ram-Gang- not a must of, bust definatly a creature to consider.
So you would need people to pay $640 to play 8 dudes in your deck?
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
How does anyone feel about running Sowing Salt in Molten Rain's spot? You lose 2 damage, but you get the ability to combine Stone Rain and Cranial Extraction in one card, not to mention that without posts, 12post has no game against you anyways. I understand that Molten Rain hits a turn sooner, and that you can cascade into it with Bloodbraid Elf and it hurts less to show it with Dark Confidant, but I think that there's definitely an argument to be made for salt. Perhaps some mix of them, 2-2 or 3-1 or something.
The difference is that you could consider main-boarding molten rain/fulminator mage depending on the metagame, while sowing salt wouldn't make the cut. And that sowing salt can't be cascaded into is pretty big as well as it really decreases your chances of getting it. But it does destroy cloudpost pretty well so it is a very good sideboard card.
Kavu Predator just seems too cute. Playing a turn 2 predator, while I don't have a grove in hand is just... awkward, and bad.
Also, 4 maindeck thoughtseize or Inquisitions with at least 2-3 more in the sideboard should be a requirement to play this. You need the hand disruption to win vs. combo decks.
Second, Magus of the moon is just better than sowing salt, albeit, depending on the post version you're playing vs.
Third, having at least 2-3 sweepers in the board is a necessity against decks like Affinity, Elves, and even Zoo. If you don't have them in the board, you should plan on losing to them more than you realistically should.
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how does any one feel about running damnation in the sideboard over slagstorm? i feel like it would be better to be able to deal with a wider variety of threats than slagstorm
how does any one feel about running damnation in the sideboard over slagstorm? i feel like it would be better to be able to deal with a wider variety of threats than slagstorm
Damnation just isn't worth it in here. Most of the decks you want a sweeper vs. you wan't it turn 3. IE Affinity, elves, or any deck that has the ability to swarm. The other benefit of Slagstorm is that it's never a terrible topdeck (since it can deal 3 to finish an opponent also).
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Not to mention that Slagstorm can actually turn out strongly in your favor. Generally the yard will have some combination of lands, instants, and creatures by the time Slagstorm hits, which means Tarmogoyf will survive it.
Round 1: Splinter Twin
Game 1: T1 Discard, T2 Discard, T3 Goyf, ride it all the way.
Game 2: He combo's off T4
Game 3: I get him down to 7. Holding two bolts. I draw a bolt. I declare attack. He taps out to lay a Deceiver to tap my Goyf. I Thoughseize. He counters. Triple bolt for the win.
Round 2: Zoo
Game1: Creatures for creatures until Fire/Groves and a Predator finish him off
Game2: Tarmogoyf + Punishing Groves is too much.
Round 3: UR Storm
Game 1: Discard followed by more Discard and Goyf beats
Game 2: See G1.
Round 4: Affinity
Game 1: He blasts me.
Game 2: 3 Ancient Grudges, 3 Lightning Bolts, 3 Pulses, 2 Terminates is too much removal for this matchup
Game 3: see above
Round 5: Melira Combo
Game 1: Kavu Predator kept him from comboing off T5 w Finks. I eventually wear him down.
Game 2: He goes beats mode and gets me w/ Lark and Yosei.
Game 3: Saee Game 2 except Protean Hulk too.
Round 6: UR Storm
Game 1: He goes off T2
Game 2: 4 Discard spells in the first 4 turns.
Game 3: 2 early discard spells and double Goyf.
Round 7: Zoo
Game 1: He smashes me.
Game 2: Double goyf smashes me.
Top 8: Round 1: Greenpost
I did so poorly in the misclick on T3 n this game that it upset me enough to just lose both games.
They just ran a deck tech on Jund, I gotta say the list looks really solid.
He's running 3x Blightning in addition to 3x Rise // Fall. Having that much hand disruption, in addition to the 4x thoughtseize is an absolute beating to all the combo decks in the format, especially the U/R based combo decks. As I've been saying for the last 2 months, Rise // Fall is the real deal in jund, and is an absolute beating, especially if played correctly.
He's also playing 4x Kird Ape. Not sure whether I entirely agree with it, but I can't say it's a terrible choice either.
I think the one thing about Jund in the current format, is that you really need to be entirely sure you've meta-gamed with the build you're playing.
For a deck like Jund, the two decks you want to be sideboarding for specifically are 12post and Zoo/affinity. You're already going to be very strong vs. opposing mid-range decks, as well as heavily favored against combo decks.
Having sideboard access to Slagstorm / Firespout is critically important against Affinity, and having access to moon effects is also important against something like 12post.
All things being said, I strongly believe Jund, along with a WELL tuned zoo deck are the only decks that can legitimately have game vs. just about all the contenders in the current meta.
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Is their a differance between dark zoo list and Jund list's?
Dark zoo is purely an aggro deck that splashes black for Dark Confidant, and the ability to play Tribal Flames. They'll frequently put in a small amount of hand disruption to help in the combo matchup.
Jund is a mid-range deck that focuses heavily on hand disruption, and card advantage, instead of focusing on pure speed. Jund is much stronger against control & combo decks than most Zoo decks are. Jund also still makes heavy use of Bloodbraid Elf & the Cascade mechanic.
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SOme nice tech I was able to get a glimpse of from his SB was Sudden Death. I found splinter twin decks very hard but that, and a combination of enchant hates, made it winnable post board.
1: Kavu Predator- If you are playing Grove+Pfire asthis deck should be, this guy can easily outpace tarmogoyf quickly. Even if you haven't played a punishing fire yet, you can float red or green mana in response to removal to try to get him out of range of it. Trample is a plus that can make it even better than goyf in a pinch.
2:Boggart Ram-Gang- not a must of, bust definatly a creature to consider.
Heres my List
1x Blood Crypt
2x Fire-lit Thicket
1x forest
2x Graven Cairns
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x lavaclaw reaches
1x Mountain
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x raging Ravine
2x Savage Lands
1x Stomping grounds
1x Swamp
2x Twilight mire
3x Verdant Catacombs
4x Bloodbraid Elf
2x Boggart Ram-gang
4x Dark confidant
4x kavu predator
2x Kitchen Finks
2x tarmogoyf
2x Vampire nighthawk
spells (17)
4x Blightning
2x Lightning bolt
2x maelstrom pulse
4x Punishing fire
1x Putrefy
2x terminate
2x Inquisition of kozilek
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Krosan Grip
2x Leyline of the void
2x Surgical extraction
6x Unfilled
Sideboard slots is still up in the air. I only play 2 Tarmogoyf because they are Mucho $$$
Decks Im Playing:
Ghost ride the whipRWB
Modern:
Creatureless loamRGBW
TronU
Enduring RenewalW
BurnR
Legacy:
PoxB
Nic-fit GWB
Junk GWB
BurnR
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
If it should be competetive... yes. :/
I'm waiting for "Tarmogoyf vs Confidant" Duel Decks, tbh.
anyways, @xterra06's list: why play 2 leylines over 2 relics? it seems like it should be 4 leylines or nothing.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Also, 4 maindeck thoughtseize or Inquisitions with at least 2-3 more in the sideboard should be a requirement to play this. You need the hand disruption to win vs. combo decks.
Second, Magus of the moon is just better than sowing salt, albeit, depending on the post version you're playing vs.
Third, having at least 2-3 sweepers in the board is a necessity against decks like Affinity, Elves, and even Zoo. If you don't have them in the board, you should plan on losing to them more than you realistically should.
JundBRG
Legacy
Dredge WUBRG
Damnation just isn't worth it in here. Most of the decks you want a sweeper vs. you wan't it turn 3. IE Affinity, elves, or any deck that has the ability to swarm. The other benefit of Slagstorm is that it's never a terrible topdeck (since it can deal 3 to finish an opponent also).
3 Kavu Predator
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Blightning
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Punishing Fire
2 Terminate
3 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Grove of Burnwillows
1 Rootbound Crag
2 Stomping Ground
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Arid Mesa
2 Treetop Village
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Forest
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Boom/Bust
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Deathmark
Round 1: Splinter Twin
Game 1: T1 Discard, T2 Discard, T3 Goyf, ride it all the way.
Game 2: He combo's off T4
Game 3: I get him down to 7. Holding two bolts. I draw a bolt. I declare attack. He taps out to lay a Deceiver to tap my Goyf. I Thoughseize. He counters. Triple bolt for the win.
Round 2: Zoo
Game1: Creatures for creatures until Fire/Groves and a Predator finish him off
Game2: Tarmogoyf + Punishing Groves is too much.
Round 3: UR Storm
Game 1: Discard followed by more Discard and Goyf beats
Game 2: See G1.
Round 4: Affinity
Game 1: He blasts me.
Game 2: 3 Ancient Grudges, 3 Lightning Bolts, 3 Pulses, 2 Terminates is too much removal for this matchup
Game 3: see above
Round 5: Melira Combo
Game 1: Kavu Predator kept him from comboing off T5 w Finks. I eventually wear him down.
Game 2: He goes beats mode and gets me w/ Lark and Yosei.
Game 3: Saee Game 2 except Protean Hulk too.
Round 6: UR Storm
Game 1: He goes off T2
Game 2: 4 Discard spells in the first 4 turns.
Game 3: 2 early discard spells and double Goyf.
Round 7: Zoo
Game 1: He smashes me.
Game 2: Double goyf smashes me.
Top 8:
Round 1: Greenpost
I did so poorly in the misclick on T3 n this game that it upset me enough to just lose both games.
So 7th out of 81. Not bad.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
He's running 3x Blightning in addition to 3x Rise // Fall. Having that much hand disruption, in addition to the 4x thoughtseize is an absolute beating to all the combo decks in the format, especially the U/R based combo decks. As I've been saying for the last 2 months, Rise // Fall is the real deal in jund, and is an absolute beating, especially if played correctly.
He's also playing 4x Kird Ape. Not sure whether I entirely agree with it, but I can't say it's a terrible choice either.
I think the one thing about Jund in the current format, is that you really need to be entirely sure you've meta-gamed with the build you're playing.
For a deck like Jund, the two decks you want to be sideboarding for specifically are 12post and Zoo/affinity. You're already going to be very strong vs. opposing mid-range decks, as well as heavily favored against combo decks.
Having sideboard access to Slagstorm / Firespout is critically important against Affinity, and having access to moon effects is also important against something like 12post.
All things being said, I strongly believe Jund, along with a WELL tuned zoo deck are the only decks that can legitimately have game vs. just about all the contenders in the current meta.
My Goodness, I'm only realising it know but kavu predator is absolute genius
Insert witty phrase here
Dark zoo is purely an aggro deck that splashes black for Dark Confidant, and the ability to play Tribal Flames. They'll frequently put in a small amount of hand disruption to help in the combo matchup.
Jund is a mid-range deck that focuses heavily on hand disruption, and card advantage, instead of focusing on pure speed. Jund is much stronger against control & combo decks than most Zoo decks are. Jund also still makes heavy use of Bloodbraid Elf & the Cascade mechanic.
Not sure how good it will do since this deck already runs AMAZING cards, but I'm just throwing it out there as more cool cards to look at.
http://quazen.com/games/card-games/how-i-followed-my-guts-and-got-an-invite-to-worlds-bolivian-nationals-report-2nd/
also featured at the Starkinton Post
http://www.thestarkingtonpost.com/articles/-/Bolivia_Nationals_2nd