The commentators were talking about Echoing Truth being an out to the Relic which implies game 2, but I suppose it's equally likely it was game 1 and that was just poor commentary.
I still think that Serum Visions > Thoughtcast. During combo turn SV let me see more cards and in early game it is playable for U. THoughtcast (especially after muligans) becomes a Divination, which is very weak.
Reshape for 2 has cmc 4, so Spell Snare won't counter it But trust me, if u play against control u have a lot of time ot overcome countermagic. Just play patiently. Play some eggs, Blooms, sometimes KCI, and if u have Reward and 4 lands just wait for opponents' tappout on endstep - u can make mini loop ot draw some cards and ramp with Ghost Quarters.
Cmc is non-changing cost printed on the card, so for Reshape it is 2 no matter how much you choose to pay for x (same for for example Sphinxs revelation -> always 3). Or if you lets say plays bolt while your popnent have Thalia on board, bolt will cost 2 but its Cmc is still 1.
To that mini loop, it is even possible to completly go off in lets say response to EoT revelation for full mana if you have enaugh eggs and ironwork on board combined with shredder etc. since your whole combo is instant speed, so that is nice, but controls are not only decks with ton of counterspells. In UR delver match up you normally dont have so much time, same is it for Tempo/tarmo-twin wich normally runs remands + some other counterspells.
Machinate is just bad cantrip, if you have enaugh artifacts to make it worthed, you should be alredy going off, if you play it for dig through like 4 cards, it becomes just badly overcosted thoughtcast/serum visions. Intuition is interesting, I havent tried it, but I dont feel there enaugh place for it in MD.
While the cmc doesn't change, I believe that paying more than 2 mana for Reshape will make it immune to Spell Snare.
The CMC of an X spell on the stack is its base cost (2) plus X. If you cast Fireball for 100 and someone Mana Drains it, they get 101 colourless mana.
On another note, when sideboarding against control, what are the cards you guys cut? I am having trouble cutting enough cards to bring in Erase/Echoing/Silence and depending on the control deck, Ground Seal or Leyline of Sanctity.
1. Play 4 KCI
2. Noxious Revivals are bad - with Conjurer's Bauble u want to put Sunrise effects on bottom and than shuffle library.
3. Ground Seal can block your Conjurer's Bauble and loop with Pyrite Spellbomb.
4. Having more than 1 win condition in maindeck is waisting slots.
5. Hurkyl's Recall is too narrow, play 4 Truths or Cyclonic Rifts.
6. Swan Song > Silence becouse SS is easier to cast and it can counter opposing combo cards like Scapeshift or Ad Nauseam. And can counter Splinter Twin, Cryptic Command, Past in Flames, Stony Silence, Rest in Peace and so on. LIke with Recall it's better to have elastic sideboard cards, not narrow.
ok, i just started building the Deck and some questions come to my mind.
I hope someone will help me
1. I'd like to include 2 Aether Spellbomb Maindeck, because of the huge amount of Splinter Twin, Kiki Pod, UR Delver and UWR Midrange Decks in my local Meta. Is that ok or just not needed?
2. Is Swan Song teh real deal vs. Counter? I'd like to include 2 MD, or is Defense Grid better? I recognize Silence is out of discussion for the deck, is that right?
3. Artificer's Intuition as discussed above doesn't fit in the deck. What i am wondering about is the fact that there are no other modern legal cards like FAith's Reward and OtV...Is there nothing with a similar effect? I also wasted some thoughts on cheating Omnipotence into play, but that is simply another Deck.
My main win-con isnt the Bauble/Pyrite loop, its the banefire and if I -do- need to go on the bauble/pyrite route I pretty much always bring in echoing so I can just draw echoing, bounce ground seal and then combo.
It protects me from Surgical/Extirpate though, before they can respond with them, and it stops opposing snapcaster mages or the like.
I definitely agree on Hurkyls, the sideboard is the really weak point of my deck.
I disagree on Revival being bad, its won me many, many games by being reward 9 and 10.
I also disagree on 4 KCI, I used to play 4 but I found myself drawing KCI constantly, having 2-3 in hand isnt good when I could have any other good card.
Im on the edge Swan Song/Silence. I need to do more testing but I think Swan Song will be the way to go. Only thing Silence has over it is stopping opposing eggs decks and storm and Ad Nauseum from going off.
Revival is one of the first cards I start to cut when sideboarding. Having a few flex slots is not bad at all. Also while it is off colour (We're UW based) I have never had an issue casting it between mox opal 8 different filter effects and being able to ghostquarter for the singleton forest.
I 100% agree with KCI being the best card in the deck but I havent really had a problem finding one and being able to reshape for one is very relevant.
Also, there is quite a lot of surgical/extraction at my local meta so its really a meta call but not that bad of a card.
This thread seems a little dead, but I'm still interested in the deck. I've been running some Tezzeret the Seeker in my list and I think its pretty cool in here. I only saw one guy talking about it back on page 3 and everyone ignored him, has nobody else tried it? At worst its 1 extra for a KCI, at best it pairs up with Faiths Reward to create really easy wins with minimal egg counts (first seeker cracks for KCI, second one cracks for codex shredder). Finally its good at the slowplay game too, threatening a kill with the -5 ability, finding eggs slowly and steadily, or tutoring silver bullets like Torpor Orb / Grafdigger's. It seems strong.
Also how do people feel about the viability of this deck, when something like Splinter Twin is maybe slightly slower but a hell of a lot more resilient and interactive?
Concerning Thoughtcast versus Serum Visions, I just haven't tested Serum Visions yet. I am really tempted to switch though as it helps fit the curve better in many instances. Thoughtcast is great at points because it does provide advantage, but I think the Scry 2 might just be better.
As to why I like Time Sieve, I've found that it often helps in the middle of going off. When you don't have KCI, it gives you a sac outlet for Codex Shredder,Terrarion and Ichor Wellspring. Additionally, it quite often helps generate 2-3 mana because you get untap mid-combo. That can often give you the mana you need to cast Krark-Clan Ironworks without drawing into another Reshape, lets you wait a turn for suspended Lotus Blooms, can get you up to Open the Vaults mana without a Krark-Clan Ironworks, it lets you do some great stuff versus control like EoT Faith's Reward into two turns if they counter it giving you greater ability to go off, etc. I've just found that it really helps and is often a more realistic Reshape target than Krark-Clan Ironworks. Plus, being base blue and having so much other fixing between Mox Opal, Chromatic Star and Chromatic Sphere it's exceptionally easy to cast. It just smooths things out really well.
As for why I prefer Pyrite Spellbomb over Banefire, I found that it's very rare I get stuck in a situation where I draw Pyrite Spellbomb where I can't combo out when I could just win with Banefire. More importantly, however, is the fact that Pyrite Spellbomb actually helps me go off in many situations as a mini-ritual with Krark-Clan Ironworks, as a random pay 2 draw 1 spell, etc. I can't count the number of times when I opening handed Banefire (or drew it early on) and it was effectively a mulligan because it was a dead card until I could actually win. Occasionally, Banefire would buy me a turn or two by being able to kill a Tarmogoyf or a moderate Scavenging Ooze. That was just much less common.
I'm not sure about having or wanting Leyline of Sanctity in the board.
To explain cutting an Aether Vial I've got to go into some math. Odds of opening handing an Leyline of Sanctity with 4 in the deck are:
7 card hand 39.95%
6 card hand 35.15%
5 card hand 30.06%
However with 3 in the deck it is:
7 card hand 31.54%
6 card hand 27.52%
5 card hand 23.33%
Because this isn't a deck that can often afford mulligans past 6. With playing 4 the odds of drawing at least 1 in the opener (or mulligan hand) to play are:
With 4 in deck:
7 card hand 39.95%
6 card hand 61.06%
5 card hand 72.76%
With 3 in deck:
7 card hand 31.54%
6 card hand 50.38%
5 card hand 61.96%
Like I absolutely love the card and think it would likely be quite good in a number of matchups, but I don't think the math really supports playing any number of them. If anything I think I'd rather play a 1 of Witchbane Orb. The card is great versus Burn and 8 Rack. It's fine versus Ad Nauseum and a few other random decks. The thing is though that most decks have an answer to it post board.
The last card that I'm actually wanting somewhere in the 75 (but am unsure where the cut is exactly) is Ensnaring Bridge. It's pretty easy to get down to 2 or so cards and that in and of itself can cut off a bunch of random damage. It's good versus Bogles, Zoo (if that's actually being played), Merfolk. Unfortunately it's not great versus Pod or Twin; it's ok-ish versus Jund and UWx cutting out manlands, Tarmogoyf[/cards] and Restoration Angel but it wouldn't be something that I'd want to side in. Plus, I'm not sure if it would even be effective as a 1 of; like it feels like it would be amazing in the already amazing draws (Darksteel Citadel, Mox Opal, double egg +3) but equally awful in the slow keep hands (land x2, egg x1, Ichor Wellspring, +3). Has anyone tried it out?
Ended up playing this deck for the first time in awhile at FNM this past weekend. I don't remember the deck doing so bad since I've won FNM's with it post ban. We only had 8 show up for Modern so it was a small room but round 1 involved playing a deck with 15 MB discard spells. It was Thoughtseize, IoK, Duress, and Sin Collector. All topped off with Scavenging Ooze to eat my GY. Round 2 was Burn, as it turns out Eidolon of the Great Revel is a difficult card to beat. I tried Swan Song but it never showed up on time and even a Reshape into Spellbomb deals a high amount of damage unless you have 5 mana laying around. Round 3 was against 8 rack which was MB'ing Nihil Spellbomb.
Between the two discard decks and Eidolon I didn't win a single game. The answer to the discard is Leyline but it never showed up, all in all the whole thing was quite frustrating.
Thoughts? You can go off on turn 3 with reshape and turn 4 with wargate. wargate can also grab you ghost quarters, blooms mid-combo or extra draws.
I am currently playing around with # of fetches and shocks I should be using. I am thinking of having 4 fetches, 1 hallowed fountain and 1 breeding pool and going down to 5 islands but that may give me too few basics. Also, its important to note that I only really need to cast my white and green cards when I go off. It probably isn't correct to run a forest or plains and just bring up my island count to 7.
I am also thinking of cutting the 4th wargate and a land for 2 mb silence instead. Or cutting the 4th wargate and a bloom (since I will basically still have 10 copies counting reshape and gate) for 2 silence mb.
The Silence makes me think it was game 2 though.
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Adarkar Wastes
1 Buried Ruin
4 Mox Opal
4 Island
1 Plains
2 Lotus Bloom
1 Mind Stone
4 Krark-Clan Ironworks
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Terrarion
4 Ichor Wellspring
4 Thoughtcast
4 Reshape
4 Faith's Reward
3 Open the Vaults
1 Codex Shredder
1 Banefire
3 Echoing Truth
3 Silence
2 Spellskite
2 Torpor Orb
1 Defense Grid
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Green @ it's best
While the cmc doesn't change, I believe that paying more than 2 mana for Reshape will make it immune to Spell Snare.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
On another note, when sideboarding against control, what are the cards you guys cut? I am having trouble cutting enough cards to bring in Erase/Echoing/Silence and depending on the control deck, Ground Seal or Leyline of Sanctity.
4 Reshape
4 Open the Vaults
2 Noxious Revival
1 Research // Development
1 Banefire
2 Mox Opal
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Chromatic Star
3 Krark-Clan Ironworks
4 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Ichor Wellspring
4 Chromatic Sphere
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Defense Grid
3 Darksteel Citadel
5 Island
1 Plains
1 Flooded Grove
1 Forest
1 Mystic Gate
1 Pithing Needle
2 Echoing Truth
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Silence
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Erase
2 Ground Seal
Thats the list I am using. Any thoughts? (Ignore Emrakul, he's a fun-of with Research // Development)
2. Noxious Revivals are bad - with Conjurer's Bauble u want to put Sunrise effects on bottom and than shuffle library.
3. Ground Seal can block your Conjurer's Bauble and loop with Pyrite Spellbomb.
4. Having more than 1 win condition in maindeck is waisting slots.
5. Hurkyl's Recall is too narrow, play 4 Truths or Cyclonic Rifts.
6. Swan Song > Silence becouse SS is easier to cast and it can counter opposing combo cards like Scapeshift or Ad Nauseam. And can counter Splinter Twin, Cryptic Command, Past in Flames, Stony Silence, Rest in Peace and so on. LIke with Recall it's better to have elastic sideboard cards, not narrow.
I hope someone will help me
1. I'd like to include 2 Aether Spellbomb Maindeck, because of the huge amount of Splinter Twin, Kiki Pod, UR Delver and UWR Midrange Decks in my local Meta. Is that ok or just not needed?
2. Is Swan Song teh real deal vs. Counter? I'd like to include 2 MD, or is Defense Grid better? I recognize Silence is out of discussion for the deck, is that right?
3. Artificer's Intuition as discussed above doesn't fit in the deck. What i am wondering about is the fact that there are no other modern legal cards like FAith's Reward and OtV...Is there nothing with a similar effect? I also wasted some thoughts on cheating Omnipotence into play, but that is simply another Deck.
4. The Cantrips give my sleepless nights...just kidding. Peer Through Depths over Sleight of Hand ???
Green @ it's best
It protects me from Surgical/Extirpate though, before they can respond with them, and it stops opposing snapcaster mages or the like.
I definitely agree on Hurkyls, the sideboard is the really weak point of my deck.
I disagree on Revival being bad, its won me many, many games by being reward 9 and 10.
I also disagree on 4 KCI, I used to play 4 but I found myself drawing KCI constantly, having 2-3 in hand isnt good when I could have any other good card.
Im on the edge Swan Song/Silence. I need to do more testing but I think Swan Song will be the way to go. Only thing Silence has over it is stopping opposing eggs decks and storm and Ad Nauseum from going off.
I 100% agree with KCI being the best card in the deck but I havent really had a problem finding one and being able to reshape for one is very relevant.
Also, there is quite a lot of surgical/extraction at my local meta so its really a meta call but not that bad of a card.
Also how do people feel about the viability of this deck, when something like Splinter Twin is maybe slightly slower but a hell of a lot more resilient and interactive?
3 Adarkar Wastes
1 Buried Ruin
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Island
1 Plains
Artifacts: 29
1 Codex Shredder
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Ichor Wellspring
4 Krark-Clan Ironworks
2 Lotus Bloom
4 Mox Opal
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Terrarion
1 Time Sieve
4 Faith's Reward
Sorceries: 11
3 Open the Vaults
4 Reshape
4 Thoughtcast
1 Defense Grid
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Kiora's Dismissal
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Spellskite
1 Spell Pierce
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Swan Song
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Torpor Orb
2 Void Snare
This is the list I'm playing (although currently the Void Snares are Echoing Truths).
Concerning Thoughtcast versus Serum Visions, I just haven't tested Serum Visions yet. I am really tempted to switch though as it helps fit the curve better in many instances. Thoughtcast is great at points because it does provide advantage, but I think the Scry 2 might just be better.
As to why I like Time Sieve, I've found that it often helps in the middle of going off. When you don't have KCI, it gives you a sac outlet for Codex Shredder,Terrarion and Ichor Wellspring. Additionally, it quite often helps generate 2-3 mana because you get untap mid-combo. That can often give you the mana you need to cast Krark-Clan Ironworks without drawing into another Reshape, lets you wait a turn for suspended Lotus Blooms, can get you up to Open the Vaults mana without a Krark-Clan Ironworks, it lets you do some great stuff versus control like EoT Faith's Reward into two turns if they counter it giving you greater ability to go off, etc. I've just found that it really helps and is often a more realistic Reshape target than Krark-Clan Ironworks. Plus, being base blue and having so much other fixing between Mox Opal, Chromatic Star and Chromatic Sphere it's exceptionally easy to cast. It just smooths things out really well.
As for why I prefer Pyrite Spellbomb over Banefire, I found that it's very rare I get stuck in a situation where I draw Pyrite Spellbomb where I can't combo out when I could just win with Banefire. More importantly, however, is the fact that Pyrite Spellbomb actually helps me go off in many situations as a mini-ritual with Krark-Clan Ironworks, as a random pay 2 draw 1 spell, etc. I can't count the number of times when I opening handed Banefire (or drew it early on) and it was effectively a mulligan because it was a dead card until I could actually win. Occasionally, Banefire would buy me a turn or two by being able to kill a Tarmogoyf or a moderate Scavenging Ooze. That was just much less common.
I'm not sure about having or wanting Leyline of Sanctity in the board.
To explain cutting an Aether Vial I've got to go into some math. Odds of opening handing an Leyline of Sanctity with 4 in the deck are:
7 card hand 39.95%
6 card hand 35.15%
5 card hand 30.06%
However with 3 in the deck it is:
7 card hand 31.54%
6 card hand 27.52%
5 card hand 23.33%
Because this isn't a deck that can often afford mulligans past 6. With playing 4 the odds of drawing at least 1 in the opener (or mulligan hand) to play are:
With 4 in deck:
7 card hand 39.95%
6 card hand 61.06%
5 card hand 72.76%
With 3 in deck:
7 card hand 31.54%
6 card hand 50.38%
5 card hand 61.96%
Like I absolutely love the card and think it would likely be quite good in a number of matchups, but I don't think the math really supports playing any number of them. If anything I think I'd rather play a 1 of Witchbane Orb. The card is great versus Burn and 8 Rack. It's fine versus Ad Nauseum and a few other random decks. The thing is though that most decks have an answer to it post board.
The last card that I'm actually wanting somewhere in the 75 (but am unsure where the cut is exactly) is Ensnaring Bridge. It's pretty easy to get down to 2 or so cards and that in and of itself can cut off a bunch of random damage. It's good versus Bogles, Zoo (if that's actually being played), Merfolk. Unfortunately it's not great versus Pod or Twin; it's ok-ish versus Jund and UWx cutting out manlands, Tarmogoyf[/cards] and Restoration Angel but it wouldn't be something that I'd want to side in. Plus, I'm not sure if it would even be effective as a 1 of; like it feels like it would be amazing in the already amazing draws (Darksteel Citadel, Mox Opal, double egg +3) but equally awful in the slow keep hands (land x2, egg x1, Ichor Wellspring, +3). Has anyone tried it out?
Between the two discard decks and Eidolon I didn't win a single game. The answer to the discard is Leyline but it never showed up, all in all the whole thing was quite frustrating.
I can never truly decide whether to risk the hand or not.
EDH DECKS
[to be updated
OTHER DECKS
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Elsewhere Flask
4 Lotus Bloom
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Serum Visions
2 Sleight of Hand
4 Reshape
4 Wargate
Instants (8)
4 Faith's Reward
4 Noxious Revival
4 Ghost Quarter
11 Island
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Wipe Away
2 Echoing Truth
3 Silence
2 Swan Song
4 Leyline of Sanctity
Thoughts? You can go off on turn 3 with reshape and turn 4 with wargate. wargate can also grab you ghost quarters, blooms mid-combo or extra draws.
I am currently playing around with # of fetches and shocks I should be using. I am thinking of having 4 fetches, 1 hallowed fountain and 1 breeding pool and going down to 5 islands but that may give me too few basics. Also, its important to note that I only really need to cast my white and green cards when I go off. It probably isn't correct to run a forest or plains and just bring up my island count to 7.