Vial Modern Merfolk is going to be more legitimate then before, with 8x 2MC lords, Coralhelm Commander, CurseCatcher and Silvergill Adept, round off with some cheap counterspells such as Spell Pierce and Spell Snare to protect the lords early on - could well make the merfolk a tough bunch of beefcakes to deal with.
Why isn't anyone running Kira, Great Glass Spinner? O.o she was a mainstay in the Legacy version (i can only assume she still is, too). It seems like forcing Jund and other removal heavy decks to 2 for 1 themselves is nice. Especially if you're running SSS/Pierce main.
With Aether Vial out you can compare her to Mental Misstep; With Aether Vial and Mutavault you can compare her to a free Spell Snare/MM combo. She's good in Modern; Most of the stuff you're going to want to counter are removal spells; most of the strongest removal in Modern are 2 and 1 CC; Bolt/Helix/PTE/Terminate/Doomblade
I don't know how you can justify playing Merfolk without Silvergill Adept. I mean, Spreading Seas instead? Really?
Yes... When you have 12 lords that give Islandwalk..., I would venture to say 2-4 Seas.
There is no need for adept or 3 drop lords with the 2 drops. You can leave Vial at 2 and always have mana open for other things, like counterspells, which this deck really needs.
Honestly, cause she can be useful, but Ive had too many games where she is useless, Grim Lavamancer for example, doesnt give a fart in a windstorm about Kira's Ability. Lilliana also thinks shes funny looking.
Three Mana is weird to get to, or tap out for, So you really have to Vial her in. Not impossible, but slow, as Merfolk Build board on turn 2-3-4, so the timing is off. Not that it can't win longer games, but its usually very powerful for hits on turn 4-5-6
1 Mana Removal spells get countered by Sprite, and Kill spells larger, potentially get spell pierced. Nothing is fool proof, mind, but it seems to work well enough
I stopped using her... I'm not sure why, But I sort of felt it was the right thing to do. She never played nice with Merfolk Soveriegn either. but maybe now that Sovereign is out for me, I could include her somewhere.
What would you suggest to remove to put her in (up to 2)?Graveyard Hate?
Honestly, cause she can be useful, but Ive had too many games where she is useless, Grim Lavamancer for example, doesnt give a fart in a windstorm about Kira's Ability. Lilliana also thinks shes funny looking.
Three Mana is weird to get to, or tap out for, So you really have to Vial her in. Not impossible, but slow, as Merfolk Build board on turn 2-3-4, so the timing is off. Not that it can't win longer games, but its usually very powerful for hits on turn 4-5-6
1 Mana Removal spells get countered by Sprite, and Kill spells larger, potentially get spell pierced. Nothing is fool proof, mind, but it seems to work well enough
I stopped using her... I'm not sure why, But I sort of felt it was the right thing to do. She never played nice with Merfolk Soveriegn either. but maybe now that Sovereign is out for me, I could include her somewhere.
What would you suggest to remove to put her in (up to 2)?Graveyard Hate?
Oh, i wasn't suggesting putting her in, i just know she was a staple in legacy and legitimately was asking why she wasn't included in the latest lists i saw on page 4. =]; You gave some decent reasons, early game tempo is important in Modern; and it seems Kira could throw yours off, if i'm understanding your reasoning correctly.
I would never advocate taking out graveyard hate in this format hah. Especially Grafdigger's Cage when it doesn't negatively affect you. Your SB seems strong; the only thing i'd advocate is maybe Spreading Seas Main? Echoing Truth seems weak in the MD, but then again it could be a pretty huge blowout for you against decks that like to run out multiple copies of things. I love big tempo gains.
Alright so Lord of Atlantis 2.0 was pretty much the card we were lacking. I think we should be running 16-20 2 drops (8 lords, 4 coralhelm, 4 adepts then maybe sprite and image) to maximize aether vial. Does anyone else think merfolk could be tier 1 post m13?
As for Kira, I think she's a great sb card but terrible mb. I always find I would rather just have another lord in her place game one.
Does anyone else think merfolk could be tier 1 post m13?
Its just a Rogue Deck, I dont know about Tier 1
-Most people don't directly Sideboard for it
-Uses specific cards/strats not populated in all meta
-Decently Strong against most match ups
-Options against meta
Unless you go U/B, I couldn't use Dismember, the damage was almost too much. Its also a very, dead card against RDW.
If I could make suggestions for sideboard, you have a few decks to prepare for
@leh1982: I like your list, but I would make place for at least 1 or 2 Phantasmal Images IMO. Also, would Disrupting Shoal be a card to consider since it's a "free" counterspell (like a bad FoW) ? I like the new lord so I might get back into Merfolk now that we have this guy.
Honestly, cause [kira, the great glass-spinner]can be useful, but Ive had too many games where she is useless, Grim Lavamancer for example, doesnt give a fart in a windstorm about Kira's Ability. Lilliana also thinks shes funny looking.
I do not understand this. Lavamancer gets countered and Lili's [-2] just makes you sacrifice something else, right? Kira (and Bob) seems great for this deck.
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Like I said, I can only go by my own experience, which is now 18 years. Kind of disheartening when you think you know something and you find out that you're a notch below a low grade moron.
Also, would Disrupting Shoal be a card to consider since it's a "free" counterspell (like a bad FoW) ?
Everything you're playing is CMC 2 (3 if you didn't drop Reejerey for the new lord). Just use Pierce, Snare, or Leak. Aether Vial should ensure you can play creatures while still having mana for counters if you feel you need them.
Modern - RUG Delver RUG - Splinter Twin UR - Jund BRG
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
Foreigning out SI, currently 33/75. The only thing better than a T1 kill is doing it with cards no one has ever heard of and/or can't read. If anyone has any of the usual pieces, PM me. I'm willing to buy/trade.
I do not understand this. Lavamancer gets countered and Lili's [-2] just makes you sacrifice something else, right? Kira (and Bob) seems great for this deck.
Because Removal is easily at hand in the decks that would run a Lavamancer,
Jund, RDW, They can usually count on a bolt in hand, it just easily breaks the Kira wall. And once Lavamancer is free to shock whomever, its hard.
Again, Kira comes out turn three/four no matter what, Jund builds a graveyard in enough time. Lilliana, isn't targeted removal, so something will still die.
i think the debate over spreading seas just took a turn for the better. we now have two island walking lords at our disposal.
i'm curious how this is going to turn out, are we going to drop a lord for a lord or go for adding him in as a lot.
if we drop one i'm stuck thinking its going to be coralhelm commander. no way merrow reejery is going out his tap ability can make and break games.
if we go all lords adding this new guy gives up 16 lord spots out of the 60 8-10 spots varying for other useful merfolk, the lords plan seems a little crowded at times.
i'm thinking i may just add 2 so I have 6 island walk effects. if i take the spreading seas concept serious then it will be a full 4 of him and 4 lord of atlantis.
I don't know how you can justify playing Merfolk without Silvergill Adept. I mean, Spreading Seas instead? Really?
I fully agree with this, silvergill adept is one of the key components to the stategy, replacing her/himself as we play him (by hopefullying drawing another merfolk).
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I tested Legacy Merfolk against Legacy UW Stoneblade (pulling that flex spot called Phantasmal Image for the new lord) and, at least in that match-up, Merrow Reejeery is the most expendable lord. Things get better for Merfolk in the games it sticks an Aether Vial, and in those games, Reejeery is a 3-mana pump lord with no other redeeming qualities. At least Coralhelm Commander flies, and 8 Islandwalk lords are awesome (until they get removed).
I'd be prone to thinking Reejeery is the most expendable lord, after Merfolk Sovereign and those flex spot guys.
Why do I want to test this out so badly
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 CoralHelm Commander
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Merfolk Sovereign
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergil Adept
4 CurseCatcher
4 Spell Pierce
4 Mutavualt
16 Island
Yep, I'm remaking this in Modern, this would be my build:
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 CurseCatcher
3 Tideshaper Mystic
4 Mana Leak
3 Gut Shot
1 Dismember
3 Spell Snare
Enchant
2 Spreading Seas
4 Æther Vial
Land
4 Mutavault
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
7 Island
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
Both should be included, somewhere, like any deck, bad draws will loose you a game, but Drawing Cards can negate that.
My list would look something like this:
4 CurseCatcher
4 Silvergil Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 CoralHelm Commander
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
2 Merrow Reejerey
3 Phantasmal Image
4 Aether Vial
Spells [11]
1 Cryptic Command
3 Dismember
4 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Watery Grave
10 Island
4 Mutavault
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
1 Cavern of Souls
15 Island
4 Mutavault
Creatures
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Merrow Reejerey
1 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergill Adept
2 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Aether Vial
2 Cryptic Command
2 Echoing Truth
1 Negate
4 Spell Pierce
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Negate
2 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
4 Spreading Seas
The Sprites are good, Handy with Mutavaults and a board Position, but they basically hard counter Path/Bolt And they fit into a Vial.
Ive found more use for Tormoyd's than Grafdigger's and Relic, so theres still 4- Graveyard Hate, just a little more Varied.
With Aether Vial out you can compare her to Mental Misstep; With Aether Vial and Mutavault you can compare her to a free Spell Snare/MM combo. She's good in Modern; Most of the stuff you're going to want to counter are removal spells; most of the strongest removal in Modern are 2 and 1 CC; Bolt/Helix/PTE/Terminate/Doomblade
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
[82/360] Custom Cube
Blog about the Custom Cube
Yes... When you have 12 lords that give Islandwalk..., I would venture to say 2-4 Seas.
There is no need for adept or 3 drop lords with the 2 drops. You can leave Vial at 2 and always have mana open for other things, like counterspells, which this deck really needs.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
Honestly, cause she can be useful, but Ive had too many games where she is useless, Grim Lavamancer for example, doesnt give a fart in a windstorm about Kira's Ability. Lilliana also thinks shes funny looking.
Three Mana is weird to get to, or tap out for, So you really have to Vial her in. Not impossible, but slow, as Merfolk Build board on turn 2-3-4, so the timing is off. Not that it can't win longer games, but its usually very powerful for hits on turn 4-5-6
1 Mana Removal spells get countered by Sprite, and Kill spells larger, potentially get spell pierced. Nothing is fool proof, mind, but it seems to work well enough
I stopped using her... I'm not sure why, But I sort of felt it was the right thing to do. She never played nice with Merfolk Soveriegn either. but maybe now that Sovereign is out for me, I could include her somewhere.
What would you suggest to remove to put her in (up to 2)?Graveyard Hate?
Oh, i wasn't suggesting putting her in, i just know she was a staple in legacy and legitimately was asking why she wasn't included in the latest lists i saw on page 4. =]; You gave some decent reasons, early game tempo is important in Modern; and it seems Kira could throw yours off, if i'm understanding your reasoning correctly.
I would never advocate taking out graveyard hate in this format hah. Especially Grafdigger's Cage when it doesn't negatively affect you. Your SB seems strong; the only thing i'd advocate is maybe Spreading Seas Main? Echoing Truth seems weak in the MD, but then again it could be a pretty huge blowout for you against decks that like to run out multiple copies of things. I love big tempo gains.
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
[82/360] Custom Cube
Blog about the Custom Cube
As for Kira, I think she's a great sb card but terrible mb. I always find I would rather just have another lord in her place game one.
Here is what I would run
17 island
4 mutavault
Creatures 27
4 cursecatcher
4 silvergill adept
4 lord of atlantis
4 coralhelm commander
4 master of the pearl trident
2 phantasmal image
2 spellstutter sprite
3 merrow reejerey
4 aether vial
3 spell pierce
3 spell snare
2 dismember
Sb is obviously dependent on the future metagame so I'll leave it blank for now
Its just a Rogue Deck, I dont know about Tier 1
-Most people don't directly Sideboard for it
-Uses specific cards/strats not populated in all meta
-Decently Strong against most match ups
-Options against meta
Unless you go U/B, I couldn't use Dismember, the damage was almost too much. Its also a very, dead card against RDW.
If I could make suggestions for sideboard, you have a few decks to prepare for
-Midrangel (U/W Delver/SCM/V Clique)
-Griselbrand Reanimator
-Melira Pods
-Tron (U/W)(U/R)(R/G)
-Jund
-RDW
-Affinity
-Storm/Kikki-Twin
-Soul Sisters
-Generic Aggro decks
-Boros
-Tokens
and there are some of these decks every now and then
-Living End Cycling
-Gargageddon
-Hivemind
Its a very diverse Meta
UG UG Neo-Dredge GU
Modern:
W Soul Sistas W
R Red Deck Wins R
U Fish U
Legacy:
G Elves! G
I do not understand this. Lavamancer gets countered and Lili's [-2] just makes you sacrifice something else, right? Kira (and Bob) seems great for this deck.
Everything you're playing is CMC 2 (3 if you didn't drop Reejerey for the new lord). Just use Pierce, Snare, or Leak. Aether Vial should ensure you can play creatures while still having mana for counters if you feel you need them.
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
Foreigning out SI, currently 33/75. The only thing better than a T1 kill is doing it with cards no one has ever heard of and/or can't read. If anyone has any of the usual pieces, PM me. I'm willing to buy/trade.
Because Removal is easily at hand in the decks that would run a Lavamancer,
Jund, RDW, They can usually count on a bolt in hand, it just easily breaks the Kira wall. And once Lavamancer is free to shock whomever, its hard.
Again, Kira comes out turn three/four no matter what, Jund builds a graveyard in enough time. Lilliana, isn't targeted removal, so something will still die.
i'm curious how this is going to turn out, are we going to drop a lord for a lord or go for adding him in as a lot.
if we drop one i'm stuck thinking its going to be coralhelm commander. no way merrow reejery is going out his tap ability can make and break games.
if we go all lords adding this new guy gives up 16 lord spots out of the 60 8-10 spots varying for other useful merfolk, the lords plan seems a little crowded at times.
i'm thinking i may just add 2 so I have 6 island walk effects. if i take the spreading seas concept serious then it will be a full 4 of him and 4 lord of atlantis.
I fully agree with this, silvergill adept is one of the key components to the stategy, replacing her/himself as we play him (by hopefullying drawing another merfolk).
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
I'd be prone to thinking Reejeery is the most expendable lord, after Merfolk Sovereign and those flex spot guys.
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Cursecatcher
2 Phantasmal Image
SPELLS 14
3 Aquitect’s Will
2 Temporal Mastery
2 Cryptic Command
3 Mana Leak
4 Deprive
4 Aether Vial
LANDS 20
4 Mutavault
16 Island
3 Hurkyl’s Recall
2 Echoing Truth
2 Vedalken Shackles
2 Dismember
3 Dispel
3 Remand
Why Temporal Mastery? That card is way too mana expensive, and with no thought magic, it cant be set up?
I should tell you, running 20 Land, And Shackles doesn't work out very well.