Is Shrapnel Blast not good in Modern or something? I'm not seeing it in any lists here.
Here's the rub: we actually don't want any artifacts. We would need more than just 4 to support shrapnel blast. With no chrome mox, and jinxed choker being straight-up suicidal, our remaining options to add are like... darksteel citadel and blinkmoth nexus. A deck with 4 shrapnel blast should have about 8 artifacts. This could actually hurt our ability to have enough red mana to cast all the stuff we want to cast. If we have even one darksteel citadel out on turn 3, we can't, say, use searing blaze and activate grim lavamancer that turn. We can't cast flamebreak that turn. In a format with zoo, goblins, and merfolk, our wins will be pretty close against them, so while jinxed choker sounds okay, it's likely to kill us. Not to mention that Leyline of Sanctity and True Believer make that card beyond terrible for us.
@Zelderex 20 lands is always a bit dicey. Of any deck, this can be run with 20 lands, but you probably need to be 1/2 1cc and 1/2 2cc with very few 3cc's at all (like two). You should also be careful about mana intensive cards as they are more likely to slow you up as you can't always invest in them and play out. In my experience, if you want ram-gang or figure of destiny, or even lavamancer, I'd support running more lands. Additionally, I agree that the CipT lands are more of a liability at 20 lands.
What manabase has worked for you so far?
This is the list I've been running. Understand that I actually don't think it is super-competitive, but it works OK. The souleater is better than I would have thought, but I don't know if I would recommend it. I also am aware that there are many who would not run blood knight, but there is quite a bit of white in my area. Finally, I run the Dragonlord as a concession for when I've run out of cards in hand. Unlike Figure, I don't ever have to have more than 1 mana to eventually pump him. Still, there are probably better things out there. I also cut teetering peaks as I really don't like keeping hands where that's my only mana. If I added two land, I'd add two peaks.
A note about the sideboard, it's kinda general, but it gives some answers to many problems. Honestly, though, I if I have to rely heavily on this SB, the whole thing isn't as likely to work. And man do I hate timely reinforcements.
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@Zelderex 20 lands is always a bit dicey. Of any deck, this can be run with 20 lands, but you probably need to be 1/2 1cc and 1/2 2cc with very few 3cc's at all (like two). You should also be careful about mana intensive cards as they are more likely to slow you up as you can't always invest in them and play out. In my experience, if you want ram-gang or figure of destiny, or even lavamancer, I'd support running more lands. Additionally, I agree that the CipT lands are more of a liability at 20 lands.
What manabase has worked for you so far?
This is the list I've been running. Understand that I actually don't think it is super-competitive, but it works OK. The souleater is better than I would have thought, but I don't know if I would recommend it. I also am aware that there are many who would not run blood knight, but there is quite a bit of white in my area. Finally, I run the Dragonlord as a concession for when I've run out of cards in hand. Unlike Figure, I don't ever have to have more than 1 mana to eventually pump him. Still, there are probably better things out there. I also cut teetering peaks as I really don't like keeping hands where that's my only mana. If I added two land, I'd add two peaks.
A note about the sideboard, it's kinda general, but it gives some answers to many problems. Honestly, though, I if I have to rely heavily on this SB, the whole thing isn't as likely to work. And man do I hate timely reinforcements.
To be completely honest? 17 mountains +4 Teetering Peaks has been more consistent than 16 Mountains +4 Teetering Peaks in my creature based version.
I'm definitely considering Kargan, would probably run it over Arc runner in my list- since it lowers my list, and gives reach.
Burst Lightning has been doing well in standard where it is very versatile, but I'm not sure whether it will be good in Modern, where 3 toughness seems to be more common. I might replace them with Needle Drop instead, cut the Teetering Peaks and add 2 Shard Volley or another creature, maybe Spikeshot Elder or Goblin Bushwacker. Or I could run 2 Burst Lightning, I think that might be the best option. Flame Javelin should be in the primer too, it's a viable option. And good old Incinerate also has not been obsoleted either, that should also be in the primer. I dislike Magma Jet, it lets you scry but doesn't do enough damage for me.
Since Needle Drop is a cheap cantrip it should allow me to play fewer lands, but if I am going to run 20 lands with Dragonlord, none of them can come into play tapped. Also, I think Everlasting Torment is a must have in the sideboard against 12-Post, along with a Moon effect, either Magus or the original Blood Moon.
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In my experience, burst lightning is just too slow for this kind of deck. Honestly, I am really unhappy if I've hit five mana to kick it, because either I drew too much land (and will lose) or the game has gone on too long (and will probably lose). It's not a bad card, but I don't like it here.
Magma jet, on the other hand, is pretty great. The damage is low, but you can't beat the scry for smoothing out your draws.
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Here is my list that I have been doing very well with. Fighting vs Zoo (RG and naya) and also 12post. 12post hasn't been as scary as everyone makes it out to be and I have been stomping them almost every game. Here is my list.
In my experience, burst lightning is just too slow for this kind of deck. Honestly, I am really unhappy if I've hit five mana to kick it, because either I drew too much land (and will lose) or the game has gone on too long (and will probably lose). It's not a bad card, but I don't like it here.
Magma jet, on the other hand, is pretty great. The damage is low, but you can't beat the scry for smoothing out your draws.
I agree for the most part on Burst Lightning, except that I think it is still useful as a 2-of. It's won me games in standard from kicking it for the 4 damage, and it can also be useful in the early game as well. It's not good enough to be a 4-of or even a 3-of because you don't want to see more than 1 in your opening seven, but it's a versatile card that can be decent at just about any point in the game. Sometimes you do draw that fifth land, and when you do it's nice to be able to make use of it. So for my list, -2 Burst Lighting, -2 Teetering Peaks, +4 Needle Drop.
Magma Jet...it's by no means a bad card, but personally I would still rather deal 3 damage instead of 2 and scrying. I guess if it works for you, though, keep using it. It's certainly a viable option. I did buy a playset online, so I might try them out in the place of Incinerate. It is a nice trick with Needle Drop to Magma Jet, Scry, and then Needle Drop and draw a card.
Why no love for Sowing Salt in sideboards (or even maindeck)?
Leyline of Punishment seems like an Autoinclude with so much 12post around.
Agreed on Leyline, it definitely needs to be in every RDW sideboard. Or at least there needs to be some method of preventing lifegain in the sideboard, be it Leyline, Stigma Lasher, or Everlasting Torment. I personally think Leyline is the best of the three, but there is justification for any of those. Leyline and Everlasting Torment also shut down the Grove and Punishing Fire combo, whereas Stigma Lasher does not. Overall I would say Leyline of Punishment>Everlasting Torment>Stigma Lasher, but that's all in my opinion.
Sowing Salt could be used, but I think Moon effects are generally superior, since they effectively nullify all of the lands on the board except your own. Sowing Salt is also much slower than Moon effects or lifegain prevention. Even Everlasting Torment costs three and has a static effect, whereas Sowing Salt is four and is a one shot effect, even if it does take out all potential copies of a land. Four mana is a very hefty cost to pay in this deck, and I don't know if Sowing Salt has a big enough effect to be worthwhile. It could be, though, it might be worth testing. I didn't even know the card existed until you suggested it.
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I highly recommend you redesign this primer based on the Legacy burn deck, at least in regards to a burn heavy deck. This gives you an idea of what complete decks used to look like, what functionality was found as necessary (Sulfuric Vortex answers lifegain, such as Batterskull as well as provided constant damage).
Worth noting, I like the R/G aggro deck Havoqx discussed. Though as it's two colors (like anything that will end up running the punishing fire/grove of the burnwillows combo) I'm not sure it is worth discussing under RDW.
I think this deck needs to take more of a sligh route then hyper-fast aggro.
More along the lines of get 4 dmg in fast, then use your burn as removal to keep getting your guys through, only tossing burn at the face if it will win the game.
Keeping this in mind, I think cards like shard volley are very out of place, that's a card you would only really want to play in straight up burn deck, which in my opinion is weaker then sligh right now.
Taking into account my preference for sligh, this deck was built in a more controlling fashion, first even splashing black for blightning.
I know right now its only 56 cards, I am in the process of trying to remove black from the deck (I find that there's just too many lands that come into play tapped for my liking) but there are some cards to consider that haven't been mentioned.
Flame Javelin and Char: Amazing cards, great finishers if you manage a turn 2 shrine of burning rage, letting you kill easily on turn 5 usually I like flame javelin more, but it is personal preference and if you want to splash a colour char may be better
Shrine of burning rageThis card is amazing in standard, and haphazard in legacy, I think it fits perfectly into modern giving your opponents a very quick clock if they cant remove it (I have had it get to 15 counters just using my burn as removal).
Demigod of revenge The best answer to UW control that red has at the moment (at least that I could find) for 5 mana you get a 5/4 flying haste, if it dies and you survive to find another, your guaranteed your 5/4 and possibly a second one. And of course, we all know the story about the guy who forgot to let the trigger resolve before playing his counter, countering demigod and putting it in the grave before the trigger resolved, I have mized more then a few wins that way
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
you should only play Fetches if you're playing Lavamancer
just FYI
(legacy RDW experience)
Legacy RDW also doesn't need Searing Blaze so that may be skewing your opinion a bit. I think you also want fetches for that so you can burn something on their turn for 3.
Burn seems pretty bad in this format, and as a corollary, Lava Spike also seems pretty bad. If you're running straight-up red, you have literally no answers to Leyline of Sanctity. I know I threw it in a burn-oriented list I posted earlier, but in retrospect that was a bad idea. It's just not worth it. After a little testing, here's the list I came up with. It's a bit more creature oriented, but that's because Leyline of Sanctitypresents the red player with a binary deck-building decision: either you get damage in without targeting, or you splash white for Demystify/Revoke Existence. I went with the former.
Against aggro, 3 needles and 1 shrine come out for slagstorm.
Against control, 2 needles and 2 searing blaze come out for 4 blood moon, and if they have lifegain, 1 needle, 1 keldon marauders, and 2 rift bolts come out for leyline.
Against combo, searing blaze comes out for blood moon.
Shattering spree is just for affinity.
Any suggestions?
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Here's the rub: we actually don't want any artifacts. We would need more than just 4 to support shrapnel blast. With no chrome mox, and jinxed choker being straight-up suicidal, our remaining options to add are like... darksteel citadel and blinkmoth nexus. A deck with 4 shrapnel blast should have about 8 artifacts. This could actually hurt our ability to have enough red mana to cast all the stuff we want to cast. If we have even one darksteel citadel out on turn 3, we can't, say, use searing blaze and activate grim lavamancer that turn. We can't cast flamebreak that turn. In a format with zoo, goblins, and merfolk, our wins will be pretty close against them, so while jinxed choker sounds okay, it's likely to kill us. Not to mention that Leyline of Sanctity and True Believer make that card beyond terrible for us.
@M34NGR33N Volcanic fallout is cool and all, but it's just not enough damage to matter. It doesn't kill Loam Lion, it doesn't Kill Kird Ape, it doesn't kill Wild Nacatl, it doesn't kill Tarmogoyf, it doesn't kill Knight of the Reliquary, it kills Kitchen Finks... but they come back and negate the life loss. It's either Flamebreak, Slagstorm, or nothing.
What manabase has worked for you so far?
This is the list I've been running. Understand that I actually don't think it is super-competitive, but it works OK. The souleater is better than I would have thought, but I don't know if I would recommend it. I also am aware that there are many who would not run blood knight, but there is quite a bit of white in my area. Finally, I run the Dragonlord as a concession for when I've run out of cards in hand. Unlike Figure, I don't ever have to have more than 1 mana to eventually pump him. Still, there are probably better things out there. I also cut teetering peaks as I really don't like keeping hands where that's my only mana. If I added two land, I'd add two peaks.
4 Rift Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Lava Spike
2 Shard Volley
4 Goblin Guide
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Blood Knight
4 Kargan Dragonlord
2 Immolating Souleater
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Molten Rain
3 Rachet Bomb
3 Stigma Lasher
3 Phyrexian Revoker
A note about the sideboard, it's kinda general, but it gives some answers to many problems. Honestly, though, I if I have to rely heavily on this SB, the whole thing isn't as likely to work. And man do I hate timely reinforcements.
To be completely honest? 17 mountains +4 Teetering Peaks has been more consistent than 16 Mountains +4 Teetering Peaks in my creature based version.
I'm definitely considering Kargan, would probably run it over Arc runner in my list- since it lowers my list, and gives reach.
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I'm curious at the lack of moon effects in these list. It's not aggro I know, but still it helps a lot
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12 Mountain
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Teetering Peaks
Creatures: 20
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kargan Dragonlord
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Hell’s Thunder
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burst Lightning
4 Incinerate
3 Rift Bolt
3 Flame Javelin
3 Everlasting Torment
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Shattering Spree
3 Magus of the Moon
3 Slagstorm
Burst Lightning has been doing well in standard where it is very versatile, but I'm not sure whether it will be good in Modern, where 3 toughness seems to be more common. I might replace them with Needle Drop instead, cut the Teetering Peaks and add 2 Shard Volley or another creature, maybe Spikeshot Elder or Goblin Bushwacker. Or I could run 2 Burst Lightning, I think that might be the best option. Flame Javelin should be in the primer too, it's a viable option. And good old Incinerate also has not been obsoleted either, that should also be in the primer. I dislike Magma Jet, it lets you scry but doesn't do enough damage for me.
Since Needle Drop is a cheap cantrip it should allow me to play fewer lands, but if I am going to run 20 lands with Dragonlord, none of them can come into play tapped. Also, I think Everlasting Torment is a must have in the sideboard against 12-Post, along with a Moon effect, either Magus or the original Blood Moon.
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Magma jet, on the other hand, is pretty great. The damage is low, but you can't beat the scry for smoothing out your draws.
4 Arid Mesa
2 Teetering Peaks
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Guide
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
3 Searing Blaze
3 Magma Jet
2 Shard Volley
2 Incinerate
3 Flames of the Blood Hand
2 Vexing Shusher
3 Volcanic Fallout
3 Blood Moon
2 Stigma Lasher
2 Smash to Smithereens
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I agree for the most part on Burst Lightning, except that I think it is still useful as a 2-of. It's won me games in standard from kicking it for the 4 damage, and it can also be useful in the early game as well. It's not good enough to be a 4-of or even a 3-of because you don't want to see more than 1 in your opening seven, but it's a versatile card that can be decent at just about any point in the game. Sometimes you do draw that fifth land, and when you do it's nice to be able to make use of it. So for my list, -2 Burst Lighting, -2 Teetering Peaks, +4 Needle Drop.
Magma Jet...it's by no means a bad card, but personally I would still rather deal 3 damage instead of 2 and scrying. I guess if it works for you, though, keep using it. It's certainly a viable option. I did buy a playset online, so I might try them out in the place of Incinerate. It is a nice trick with Needle Drop to Magma Jet, Scry, and then Needle Drop and draw a card.
Oh, also, my sideboard is now:
3 Slagstorm
3 Magus of the Moon
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Searing Blaze
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Agreed on Leyline, it definitely needs to be in every RDW sideboard. Or at least there needs to be some method of preventing lifegain in the sideboard, be it Leyline, Stigma Lasher, or Everlasting Torment. I personally think Leyline is the best of the three, but there is justification for any of those. Leyline and Everlasting Torment also shut down the Grove and Punishing Fire combo, whereas Stigma Lasher does not. Overall I would say Leyline of Punishment>Everlasting Torment>Stigma Lasher, but that's all in my opinion.
Sowing Salt could be used, but I think Moon effects are generally superior, since they effectively nullify all of the lands on the board except your own. Sowing Salt is also much slower than Moon effects or lifegain prevention. Even Everlasting Torment costs three and has a static effect, whereas Sowing Salt is four and is a one shot effect, even if it does take out all potential copies of a land. Four mana is a very hefty cost to pay in this deck, and I don't know if Sowing Salt has a big enough effect to be worthwhile. It could be, though, it might be worth testing. I didn't even know the card existed until you suggested it.
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Worth noting, I like the R/G aggro deck Havoqx discussed. Though as it's two colors (like anything that will end up running the punishing fire/grove of the burnwillows combo) I'm not sure it is worth discussing under RDW.
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More along the lines of get 4 dmg in fast, then use your burn as removal to keep getting your guys through, only tossing burn at the face if it will win the game.
Keeping this in mind, I think cards like shard volley are very out of place, that's a card you would only really want to play in straight up burn deck, which in my opinion is weaker then sligh right now.
Taking into account my preference for sligh, this deck was built in a more controlling fashion, first even splashing black for blightning.
3 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Swamp
5 Mountain
4 Arid Mesa
4 Blood Crypt
3 Ghitu Encampment
4 Marsh Flats
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Guide
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Plated Geopede
4 Keldon Marauders
Spells
4 Shrine of Burning Rage
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Flame Javelin
2 Martyr of Ashes
3 Dragon's Claw
4 Demigod of Revenge
I know right now its only 56 cards, I am in the process of trying to remove black from the deck (I find that there's just too many lands that come into play tapped for my liking) but there are some cards to consider that haven't been mentioned.
Flame Javelin and Char: Amazing cards, great finishers if you manage a turn 2 shrine of burning rage, letting you kill easily on turn 5 usually I like flame javelin more, but it is personal preference and if you want to splash a colour char may be better
Shrine of burning rageThis card is amazing in standard, and haphazard in legacy, I think it fits perfectly into modern giving your opponents a very quick clock if they cant remove it (I have had it get to 15 counters just using my burn as removal).
Demigod of revenge The best answer to UW control that red has at the moment (at least that I could find) for 5 mana you get a 5/4 flying haste, if it dies and you survive to find another, your guaranteed your 5/4 and possibly a second one. And of course, we all know the story about the guy who forgot to let the trigger resolve before playing his counter, countering demigod and putting it in the grave before the trigger resolved, I have mized more then a few wins that way
just FYI
(legacy RDW experience)
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4 Teetering Peaks
12 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
Creatures:
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Hell's Thunder
1 Ball Lightning
1 Ball Lightning
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Goblin Guide
4 Porcelain Legionnaire
4 Burst Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Flame Javelin
Enchantment:
3 Blood Moon
3 Shattering Spree
3 Dismember
3 Volcanic Fallout
2 Combust
2 Leyline of Punishment
2 Act of Aggression
These two know what they are talking about.
Legacy RDW also doesn't need Searing Blaze so that may be skewing your opinion a bit. I think you also want fetches for that so you can burn something on their turn for 3.
Burn seems pretty bad in this format, and as a corollary, Lava Spike also seems pretty bad. If you're running straight-up red, you have literally no answers to Leyline of Sanctity. I know I threw it in a burn-oriented list I posted earlier, but in retrospect that was a bad idea. It's just not worth it. After a little testing, here's the list I came up with. It's a bit more creature oriented, but that's because Leyline of Sanctitypresents the red player with a binary deck-building decision: either you get damage in without targeting, or you splash white for Demystify/Revoke Existence. I went with the former.
4x Grim Lavamancer
4x Hellspark Elemental
4x Hell's Thunder
4x Keldon Marauders
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Searing Blaze
4x Magma Jet
4x Rift Bolt
3x Needle Drop
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Arid Mesa
18x Snow-Covered Mountain
4x Blood Moon
4x Slagstorm
4x Leyline of Punishment
3x Shattering Spree
Against aggro, 3 needles and 1 shrine come out for slagstorm.
Against control, 2 needles and 2 searing blaze come out for 4 blood moon, and if they have lifegain, 1 needle, 1 keldon marauders, and 2 rift bolts come out for leyline.
Against combo, searing blaze comes out for blood moon.
Shattering spree is just for affinity.
Any suggestions?