Your sideboard really needs some Smash to Smithereens. There are a lot of problematic artifacts that really stop Burn cold. I have been playing this deck online a bit, and the turn 4 Wurmcoil Engine from Twelvepost really puts you in a bad situation. Smash works wonders at getting rid of the giant 6 point life gainer.
If I was to play burn, this is what I would play. The MD you want to be as fast and streamlined as possible, and with so many viable decks, you have no guarantee that you'll be playing against a deck that Bloodmoon will be effective.
I must disagree with your view on Blood Moon, but only partially. I do think that Blood Moon, as an enchantment, can be too passive. It might be better to run maindecked Magus of the Moon because at least he can clock. That said, the number of decks in this format that get completely stalled by a turn 3 Magus/Moon is really high. Twelvepost is virtually unbeatable without it in game 1, because of the Glimmerposts and the Wurmcoils. All of the midrange decks are tri-colored, as are all of the best control decks. The only decks against which Magus/Moon might fail are the mono-colored aggro decks and tribal strategies like Goblins, Merfolk, D&T, Elves, etc. But these represent a tiny sliver of the metagame.
Overall, it is a metagame choice. I have encountered a lot of Zoo and a lot of Twelvepost in my metagames, which means Blood Moon is superior to Magus of the Moon; Zoo can just burn the Magus, and Twelvepost is so slow without its posts that you do not need the extra clock that a Magus gives you.
Burn has some serious stalling issues if the game gets drawn out, and Scrying Sheets has really helped me out past turn 5. And please, no one comment that "If Burn is at turn 5 then you are playing it wrong". Twelvepost in particular is a longer game, especially if you cannot get a Blood Moon down on turn 3. Sheets gives you that extra late game push, without harming your consistency; topdecking lands is about the worst thing you can do as Burn after turn 4. That said, if I were running Scrying Sheets, I might consider also using Char instead of Flame Javelin in the maindeck. The 2 points to yourself won't be noticable in any matchup except the mirror, and you can consistently cast it on turn 3 without problem. For the most part, the small hit you take with Sheets on consistency (with Flamebreak and Javelin) is worth the extra boost it gives you later.
Fun card. I love it. But it does not belong in a Burn deck. Let's do some math here.
Turn 1: Drop Figure. Opponent has taken 0 from FoD. You have spent 1 mana on it.
Turn 2: Attack with Figure. Level up before damage is dealt. Opponent has taken 2 from FoD. You have spent 2 mana on it. Get in with a bolt to use your other mana.
Turn 3: Attack with Figure. Level up again before damage is dealt. Opponent has taken 6 from FoD. You have spent 5 mana on it.
Now this is obviously all assuming that your opponent has no blockers or chooses not to block. 6 damage for 5 mana over 3 turns is bad. Hellspark does 6 for 4 over 2 unblocked. Marauders does 5 for 2 over 2 unblocked. And I shouldn't need to compare it to Goblin Guide.
Figure slows you down. A lot. In the above example, you have only done 9 damage over 3 turns using all 6 mana. If you were to, instead, T1 rift bolt, T2 marauders, T3 magma jet and bolt, you would do at minimum 10 damage over 3 turns using all 6 mana. And if they don't block marauders, that's 13 damage. Compared to the 9 at MAXIMUM that you could do with Figure. Now imagine they have blockers.
Is it safe to say the argument over Figure of Destiny in Burn is over? The card belongs in Sligh and RDW, end of story.
I was going to do a little blurb about Browbeat, because, well, it looks tempting. But as Admiral Ackbar famously said... It's a trap!
Sorry, had to. The thing is Browbeat will never get you the outcome you want/need. It can never be the topdeck that kills someone, and without access to Fireblast there's even less reason to consider it.
Here is a good article going through a long (very long) description of the processes involved in the card, and why it's less than it seems.
Next time you suggest a card for a deck, please read the entire Primer to see if it has already been mentioned.
I started testing Burn, and it seems like Glimmerpost out of 12Post just...steamrolls me. I don't think it matters what I do, when they drop Primeval Titan for double Glimmerpost the game just seems...over. And this regularly occurs on T3, T4 the latest.
So why do none of you guys run answers to a turn 0 Leyline of Sanctity? There's no way with your spell heavy decks you could beat someone down with only creatures that all die easily, and your keldon mauraders would do 2 damage to you!
Kitchen finks + turn 0 leyline of sanctity that they mulled into, what does your deck do?
These lists all seem like RDW. Care to explain how a RDW deck that's called Burn isn't RDW?
most of them are yeah. The two decks seem pretty similar for modern since you don't have some of the older broken cards like you do in legacy.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Here's a modified version of a RDW/Burn deck I used to play in Extended a couple years. I changed a few things around to fit Modern..and I've only tested online so far, but it feels pretty efficient.
I tried to create a sideboard that could still utilize Isochron Scepter, while remaining relevant against popular decks. I have yet to play in any Modern events, so I don't have any serious test results yet.. But I'll post when I do. I also included a couple Buried Ruin in the sb, because they will most likely sideboard in some hate against the scepters and bridges. And although Noxious Revival isn't burn, getting one on a scepter can be devastating.
Obviously the Mox Opals will be a lot slower than Chrome Mox..often times I'm not even able to activate it until turn 3. But it's a 0 cost card that will make mana, if not right away. Since I also lost Great Furnace, I elected to remove Shrapnel Blast, a staple in my original build.
The overall idea here is to utilize Seething Song to blow your hands as you draw them with Wheel of Fate. Ensnaring Bridge keeps aggro off you, so you don't need to worry about burning creatures unless absolutely necessary. There's also the obvious synergy between Pyromancer Ascension and the scepter, which keeps pressure on your opponent. Ideally you want a Lightning Helix or a Galvanic Blast on the scepter, but anything will do.
Isochron Scepter or Red Sun's Zenith will ultimately be the win conditions. The key to success is through Ensnaring Bridge and Seething Song (letting you blow your hand). Flamebreak helps keep early pressure off you, while also feeding them some damage. Ideally by the end of turn 3 you want a bridge on the table and your hand gone. The scepter also helps empty your hand quicker since you use 2 cards for the single effect.
I chose to run only 3x Wheel of Fate and Pyromancer Ascension because, realistically, I never need to draw more than one..and all of the other cards are mandatory 4-ofs. Except for the Zenith of course, which I often never need anyway. But if I do draw it, I've usually got an Ascension online by then and I can just dump any extra mana I have from copied Songs into it for the win.
If anyone's intersted in trying this style of creatureless RDW, here are some other options I considered that you might want to use to tweak your build:
Is it safe to say the argument over Figure of Destiny in Burn is over? The card belongs in Sligh and RDW, end of story.
Not over by a long shot. Not running him is just plain wrong. Pro players seem to think so as well. IF HE IS GOOD ENOUGH TO MAKE THE LIST IN A LEGACY BURN DECK, HE IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR MODERN. Did that in caps and bold in case people are skimming. It is a very important point.
I am always happy to see him in my openning hand (or even as a draw) in my legacy deck. He outdamages Goblin Guide by a long shot. I can win games with him and just 2 or 3 burn spells easy.
Drop the Hellsparks and Marauders for Figures and Lavamancers.
Lava Spike seems beyond bad in a format where decks are likely to have sideboard Leyline of Sanctity, because it literally does nothing when they've got it out and no list I've seen packs any semblance of enchantment hate.
This is actually another reason that Figure of Destiny is worth consideration, just because a burn deck without untargeted damage has no answers to Leyline of Sanctity. It reminds me a little bit of that manaless dredge deck that won an SCG open because nobody packed leyline of the void. Running a deck which literally just scoops to white leyline seems ill-advised. In the context of modern where people can actually afford to pack white leyline, burn may not even be worth playing, and a RDW plan of mixed burn and aggressive creatures seems more prudent.
The problem I'm having with RDW online is that a lot of the decks get established very quickly or combo very quickly. It's hard for RDW to compete with the speed of many of the decks. This is why I feel like Burn would be better. It is true that you would just scoop to white leyline, but a burn deck with some Ratchet Bomb's in the board seems like the best bet.
I think people have forgotten about this card: Pithing Needle
With Missteps banned, this is an auto-include on SB.
And as mentioned above, I don't think Burn or RDW Have enough power to handle all the combos decks in this format. This deck need more reprints, like Chain Lightning and Price of Progress.
This is what I have been playing on MTGO. I've been winning most of my games but it can be tricky against fast combo decks. With Thoughtseize, Probe, Fetchlands, and pain/shocklands, burn is very viable. (notice I said *burn* NOT RDW) I believe 4 Molten Rain is a must-include because it always slows your opponent while dealing damage. I've been thinking about turning the Sudden Shocks into either Magma Jets or Incinerates; Sudden Shock is probably strictly worse than these two. Another couple of cards that have been on my mind are: Rite of Flame, Shard Volley, Goblin Grenade, and Shrapnel Blast.
Not over by a long shot. Not running him is just plain wrong. Pro players seem to think so as well. IF HE IS GOOD ENOUGH TO MAKE THE LIST IN A LEGACY BURN DECK, HE IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR MODERN. Did that in caps and bold in case people are skimming. It is a very important point.
I am always happy to see him in my openning hand (or even as a draw) in my legacy deck. He outdamages Goblin Guide by a long shot. I can win games with him and just 2 or 3 burn spells easy.
Drop the Hellsparks and Marauders for Figures and Lavamancers.
You have no idea what you're talking about. This is probably because you were never taught the difference between Burn and RDW. Burn decks are very simply designed to completely ignore their opponent and end the game with burn to the dome, just like a combo deck made out of Lightning Bolts. RDW is a very aggressive deck, but one with a bunch of stable threats (see: 20-20-20 ratio) because often the gameplan involves using burn as removal and sitting on one stable threat to clock the opponent down into low enough life that about 2 burn spells will win the game.
If you're playing Figure of Destiny, you're not playing Burn. Whatever Legacy list you found isn't a Burn deck either. Figure is a sideboard card for match-ups where you might want a stable threat (like against someone gaining a lot of life) or for times when you think your opponent might have taken out his removal and is leaning too heavily on countermagic. Otherwise, it's terrible for this archetype. Your goal is to kill your opponent, not to produce a favorable board position by using 5 total mana to make a 4/4 creature that can be blocked or killed very easily. Every mana you sink into that guy is mana that should be spent on a Lightning Bolt.
Goblin Guide does 6 damage by turn 3 for one mana. Figure does 6 damage by turn 3 for 5 mana. Guide requires a minimal investment for maximum damage. Figure requires that you dump mana into your creature instead of using your precious mana to throw more burn at your opponent. It doesn't matter that you have a higher ceiling for damage with your Figure because Burn is purely about winning through tempo, and Figure of Destiny is the anti-tempo.
Lava Spike seems beyond bad in a format where decks are likely to have sideboard Leyline of Sanctity, because it literally does nothing when they've got it out and no list I've seen packs any semblance of enchantment hate.
Either you're playing 4 Lava Spike or you're not playing a Burn deck. There is a difference between RDW and Burn. You've found yourself on the RDW side of the line.
Burn decks are designed to lose to Leyline of Sanctity. The whole point of playing Burn in a tournament is that you're taking a Hail Mary and expecting to hit a bunch of decks which are fetching and shocking themselves, so you can kill them quickly. You aren't expecting to fight through a bunch of Martyr of Sands and CoP: Reds. If you think that people are going to be running more than a minimal amount of hate, then you don't play Burn in the tournament. It's a calculated gamble, just like with any other deck and specifically with any other combo deck. Most of the time, the calculations predict it to be wrong, but people ignore that and still play the deck in tournaments anyways. Then they don't win the tournament because they made a bad decision when they sleeved up that deck on that particular day.
So I registered just so I can hopefully clear things up, reading the thread made me rage.
Burn is a deck where you have 18 mountains and 42 lightning bolts. Too bad you cant have 42 lightning bolts, so you find lightning bolt like spells, too bad there's still not 42 lightning bolt like spells, so you find sorta like lightning bolt spells, too bad again there's still some space left, so you fill the rest with goblin guides, too bad you have too many space of goblin guides, so you put in keldon mauraders.
The point is this, burn decks burn... the end, they dont do anything else but burn. They're actually kinda bad, cus they arent consistantly fast like creature aggro, and they lose to many effect cards. Basically, they may be faster than zoo, but not all the time, and certainly you cant keep up putting out damage like creature aggro.
so it's like this, you draw 7 cards to start with right? and you're allowed 4 more cards, okay, what number do you have to multiply 3 with to be greater than 20? 7..., so if you draw 3 lands, and keep drawing lightning bolts, you win... i guess. Turn one you can shoot them once, turn 2 twice, turn 3 thrice. Notice that is only 6, so at best situations under standard conditions, you get to win turn 4, maybe. If they shocked themselves or something, you win turn 3, but again, you dont have just lightning bolts.
As I was saying, burn's pretty bad, cus of various effects. For example, if your opponent summoned a rhox ********, you lose. If they play kitchen gay, you lose. If they have Layline of I get to not get hit by spells opening hand, you lose. Turn 1 Elixir of healing yourself, you lose. Basically they get off 1 healing spell, you lose. They play any type control, and its to be their advantage, you lose.
So why play burn? cus it's gimmicks, it's simple, it requires not much brain power, if you just wanna have fun, the cards also arent that expansive. (make a modern burn deck for like maybe 50 bucks, the entire deck.) And guess what? it wins.
It wins cus if you play against any creature aggro that's slower than the fastest creature aggro, you win. (turn three aoe all their creatures, you win) If you play against any combo deck that can not win in 5 turns, you win. If you play against control deck that can not stop you from killing them in 5 turns, you win. So really, burn's trolling, it's setting the bar, it's saying "if you want to ride on this trollercoaster, you gotta be at least this tall, aka you gotta have spent money in your cards to maximize your deck."
Burn kills almost all casual decks, and even some not so up to par tourney decks, for very little amount of money. Now obviously, healing is not uncommon, and if they get one off, you lose. Various effects and spells are not uncommon. It's just, people dont have them in their sideboard, they're much more worried about having to face zoo, or control, or combo decks, and let me tell you something, healing doesnt help them against any of those decks. But some healing cards are in the side boards of tourney decks, because they also have other functions; sometimes they're mainboard cus they're so good. Why have Rhox war monk? cus it's so good, 3/4 for 3 with life link, thank you... Why have kitchen finks? cus it's so good, 3/2 for 3 with 4 points of healing and 2 blocks or attacks. Did you know that Elixir of immorality wins over a the ****ty little sister of burn decks, the mill decks? Now mill decks dont have to worry about healing... sorta, it's just a good idea to run those cards. If they do, and they draw them, you lose.
So people get a bit butthurt and try to make burn into a serious deck by having flame break, sulfuric vortex, anti healing, etc etc. It's still not enough... most of the time, because while sulfuric vortex is so good, you get to play it turn 3, which translates into 2 damage each turn, and no healing, but by that time, you've ran out of juice. Zoo will kill you in 2 turns, and in the mean time, you're killing yourself with the 2 damage. Now I didnt know those 3 for 4 damage spells exist, would be good to deal with rhox in legacy, but then again, in legacy you gotta deal with turn 2 storm decks, 5 color control, legacy zoo, etc.
I mean i guess it's fun to go to a tourney, maybe even a casual tourney with a good burn deck and see how far you can go, but as soon as you meet people that have put enough quality thought and money into their decks, you're probably not going to win... I mean it's fun that your casual friends say things like, "I worked really hard on this deck, and it's pretty good." and you beat him with legacy burn, hands down. It's honest more the par, but the par is never the best.
Oh I almost forgot, if you play against black, first turn, swamp, dark rit, hymn, you lose. Any healing, any discard, any damage redirection, you cant cast spell on player, you lose. Thanks spellskite... Also forgot to include, if you had to mulligan, you'll probably lose.
Exactly as you said in the opening post, due to the inability to play fireblast, chain lightning, sulfuric vortex and the price of progress (and to some degree flame rift), modern burn may not be as good in modern as legacy burn is in legacy. Legacy burn is already not too good... Then again, we dont know the max of modern above the bar set by modern burn, (we know the max of legacy above the bar of legacy burn, and it's a pretty big gap).
Traditionally, you got 18 mountains, no more no less, no fetch lands, you need 3 mountains, 1 each turn for the first 3 turns, then you want to stop drawing mountains (which is a very low chance, but you never know, burn decks games should last shorter than 5 turns, with some rare 3 turn wins, average 4 turn wins.)
Lightning bolt, lava spike, goblin guide and rift bolt are not up for discussion. Thats 16 cards. You have 26 cards left. Here are some good cards and what i think about them. If I didnt include certain cards, that means those cards are bad. I dont feel like explaining why they're bad.
shard volley: only use as finisher, you need 3 lands.
everlasting torment: no damage, anti healing, used to replace sulfuric vortex, probably not worth it, but I mean no anti healing is not the answer to healing just because the options are bad.
Flame break: good aoe, but cost three. You need this vs creature aggro, cus you cant afford to use your direct damage spells on creatures, but again, it's 3 mana for 3 damage.. not the best ratio.
volcanic fallout: see flame break, maybe sideboard, if they have no life link creatures, you might be able to aoe enough to out last creature aggro decks. This is even worse ratio than flame break.
magma jet: I see you're already doing your hail mary if you draw this card, 2 for 2 damage, you might get to draw a better card next turn, that is if your luck is good, and your opponent is letting you live for another turn. I dont like it.
manamorphose: this is a blank card, as in you want a lightning bolt, and maybe this card will turn into a lightning bolt if you say beetle juice 3 times really fast. If you draw a land, lol sucks to be you. You better still have spells to use in hand.
Hellspark elemental: it's really 2 cards, the ratio isnt good, it's 2 for 3 damage, at most, assuming there's no blocker, you get to play it twice. It's better than the other choices in my opinion.
Keldon Marauder: it's 2 damage, no matter what for 2 mana, that kinda sucks, but it's also a blocker for one turn, and maybe it can kill a creature next turn, maybe it gets to block again next turn, or best situation, it deals 3 damage to your opponent, so at best the ratio is 5 damage for 2 mana, kinda close to lightning bolt.
Flame of the blood hand: I actually dont know how this works, like if your opponent already gain life, would those life get taken away if this spell resolve? If that's true, then it's pretty damn good. It may be a counter to kitchen finks, I like it, may test it. It's still no sulfuric vortex
Flame Javelin: Use to kill rhox war monk, I really hate that creature. ratio is pretty bad. 3 for 4 damage... ummmm... the reason to even include this card is to kill the 4 life creatures.
Searing blaze: i dont like it, you need the opponent to have a creature out, generally, you dont want your opponent to have a creature out. also land fall restriction makes it so that you can play this turn 2 or 3, for a 2 for 3 damage ratio, thats not going to kill rhox war monk...
Browbeat: well you guys already know why and why not.
Dismember: take 4 damage to kill a 5 life creature, cost 1, may be better than flame javelin to take care of rhox war monk, again i really hate that creature. You may say, it can take care of other creatures, well see, burn doesnt need to do that unless that creature has life link, burn just tough it out like a man, it also doesnt counter kitchen finks... Dismember doesnt do damage... sideboard at best.
Smash to smithereens: side board only, it's good for killing certain artifacts and artifact creatures and doing damage at the same time.
Mudbrawler Cohort: you wish this was a goblin guide, you better have another creature on the field or it's 1/1 for 1, lol. You play this turn 2, assuming you started with turn 1 goblin guide, which you cant count on. Maybe if you had another creature turn 2 and you play this turn 3... a bit meh.
goblin grenade: if you have enough goblins in your deck, its okay, but you may not want to count on that. Otherwise, it's a damn good spell.
blood moon: sideboard, used to kill combo decks.
Boggart Ram-Gang: only going to see combat 2 turns at most, also, you dont get to do anything else third turn if you play this.
Leyline of Punishment: you hail mary that this is in your opening hand, you cant afford to play this turn 4, you dont have the land, lol. I think if you use flame of the blood hand, it's good enough.
ratch bomb: only to get rid of Leylines, but you pretty much gonna lose if they turn 0 leyline of san, i suggest you just go for broke and hope they dont have that in their sideboard and draw it in opening hand.
Pithing Needle: sideboard, you know why.
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Your sideboard really needs some Smash to Smithereens. There are a lot of problematic artifacts that really stop Burn cold. I have been playing this deck online a bit, and the turn 4 Wurmcoil Engine from Twelvepost really puts you in a bad situation. Smash works wonders at getting rid of the giant 6 point life gainer.
I must disagree with your view on Blood Moon, but only partially. I do think that Blood Moon, as an enchantment, can be too passive. It might be better to run maindecked Magus of the Moon because at least he can clock. That said, the number of decks in this format that get completely stalled by a turn 3 Magus/Moon is really high. Twelvepost is virtually unbeatable without it in game 1, because of the Glimmerposts and the Wurmcoils. All of the midrange decks are tri-colored, as are all of the best control decks. The only decks against which Magus/Moon might fail are the mono-colored aggro decks and tribal strategies like Goblins, Merfolk, D&T, Elves, etc. But these represent a tiny sliver of the metagame.
Overall, it is a metagame choice. I have encountered a lot of Zoo and a lot of Twelvepost in my metagames, which means Blood Moon is superior to Magus of the Moon; Zoo can just burn the Magus, and Twelvepost is so slow without its posts that you do not need the extra clock that a Magus gives you.
Also, there is absolutely no reason not to run a mana package that consists of the following:
19-20 Snow-Covered Mountains
2-3 Scrying Sheets
Burn has some serious stalling issues if the game gets drawn out, and Scrying Sheets has really helped me out past turn 5. And please, no one comment that "If Burn is at turn 5 then you are playing it wrong". Twelvepost in particular is a longer game, especially if you cannot get a Blood Moon down on turn 3. Sheets gives you that extra late game push, without harming your consistency; topdecking lands is about the worst thing you can do as Burn after turn 4. That said, if I were running Scrying Sheets, I might consider also using Char instead of Flame Javelin in the maindeck. The 2 points to yourself won't be noticable in any matchup except the mirror, and you can consistently cast it on turn 3 without problem. For the most part, the small hit you take with Sheets on consistency (with Flamebreak and Javelin) is worth the extra boost it gives you later.
-ktkenshinx-
Fun card. I love it. But it does not belong in a Burn deck. Let's do some math here.
Turn 1: Drop Figure. Opponent has taken 0 from FoD. You have spent 1 mana on it.
Turn 2: Attack with Figure. Level up before damage is dealt. Opponent has taken 2 from FoD. You have spent 2 mana on it. Get in with a bolt to use your other mana.
Turn 3: Attack with Figure. Level up again before damage is dealt. Opponent has taken 6 from FoD. You have spent 5 mana on it.
Now this is obviously all assuming that your opponent has no blockers or chooses not to block. 6 damage for 5 mana over 3 turns is bad. Hellspark does 6 for 4 over 2 unblocked. Marauders does 5 for 2 over 2 unblocked. And I shouldn't need to compare it to Goblin Guide.
Figure slows you down. A lot. In the above example, you have only done 9 damage over 3 turns using all 6 mana. If you were to, instead, T1 rift bolt, T2 marauders, T3 magma jet and bolt, you would do at minimum 10 damage over 3 turns using all 6 mana. And if they don't block marauders, that's 13 damage. Compared to the 9 at MAXIMUM that you could do with Figure. Now imagine they have blockers.
Is it safe to say the argument over Figure of Destiny in Burn is over? The card belongs in Sligh and RDW, end of story.
LEGACY:
BURGAd Nauseum TendrilsGRUB
MODERN:
RWGBurnGWR
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR
UWBrago, King EternalUW
Insert witty phrase here
Another burn list - mine, although they're mostly all the same:
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Teetering Peaks
4 Keldon Mauraders
4 Goblin Guide
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Ball Lightning
3 Shard Volley
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Magma Jet
4 Flame Javelin
3 Flames of the Bloodhand
4 Bloodmoon
4 Stigma Lasher
4 Volcanic Fallout
Next time you suggest a card for a deck, please read the entire Primer to see if it has already been mentioned.
LEGACY:
BURGAd Nauseum TendrilsGRUB
MODERN:
RWGBurnGWR
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR
UWBrago, King EternalUW
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=341469
Kitchen finks + turn 0 leyline of sanctity that they mulled into, what does your deck do?
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most of them are yeah. The two decks seem pretty similar for modern since you don't have some of the older broken cards like you do in legacy.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Lightning Helix
4 Flamebreak
1 Red Sun's Zenith
Utility (19):
4 Mox Opal
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Manamorphose
3 Wheel of Fate
4 Seething Song
3 Pyromancer Ascension
4 Isochron Scepter
Lands (17):
4 Arid Mesa
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Smash to Smithereens
2 Buried Ruin
3 Ghostfire
3 Path to Exile
3 Noxious Revival
I tried to create a sideboard that could still utilize Isochron Scepter, while remaining relevant against popular decks. I have yet to play in any Modern events, so I don't have any serious test results yet.. But I'll post when I do. I also included a couple Buried Ruin in the sb, because they will most likely sideboard in some hate against the scepters and bridges. And although Noxious Revival isn't burn, getting one on a scepter can be devastating.
Obviously the Mox Opals will be a lot slower than Chrome Mox..often times I'm not even able to activate it until turn 3. But it's a 0 cost card that will make mana, if not right away. Since I also lost Great Furnace, I elected to remove Shrapnel Blast, a staple in my original build.
The overall idea here is to utilize Seething Song to blow your hands as you draw them with Wheel of Fate. Ensnaring Bridge keeps aggro off you, so you don't need to worry about burning creatures unless absolutely necessary. There's also the obvious synergy between Pyromancer Ascension and the scepter, which keeps pressure on your opponent. Ideally you want a Lightning Helix or a Galvanic Blast on the scepter, but anything will do.
Isochron Scepter or Red Sun's Zenith will ultimately be the win conditions. The key to success is through Ensnaring Bridge and Seething Song (letting you blow your hand). Flamebreak helps keep early pressure off you, while also feeding them some damage. Ideally by the end of turn 3 you want a bridge on the table and your hand gone. The scepter also helps empty your hand quicker since you use 2 cards for the single effect.
I chose to run only 3x Wheel of Fate and Pyromancer Ascension because, realistically, I never need to draw more than one..and all of the other cards are mandatory 4-ofs. Except for the Zenith of course, which I often never need anyway. But if I do draw it, I've usually got an Ascension online by then and I can just dump any extra mana I have from copied Songs into it for the win.
If anyone's intersted in trying this style of creatureless RDW, here are some other options I considered that you might want to use to tweak your build:
Other Artifacts:
Welding Jar
Feldon's Cane
Locket of Yesterdays
Pyrite Spellbomb - if you're scared of pro red
Shrine of Burning Rage - I really wanted to include this, but just couldn't make it fit.
Other Burn:
Burst Lightning
Shrapnel Blast - only if you run more artifacts
Punishing Fire - I'm really liking this + Grove of the Burnwillows.. might try to work that in
Incinerate
If anyone can think of any other relevant burn or artifacts I didn't list in the options section, please let me know!
Draft My Cube!
Not over by a long shot. Not running him is just plain wrong. Pro players seem to think so as well. IF HE IS GOOD ENOUGH TO MAKE THE LIST IN A LEGACY BURN DECK, HE IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR MODERN. Did that in caps and bold in case people are skimming. It is a very important point.
I am always happy to see him in my openning hand (or even as a draw) in my legacy deck. He outdamages Goblin Guide by a long shot. I can win games with him and just 2 or 3 burn spells easy.
Drop the Hellsparks and Marauders for Figures and Lavamancers.
This is actually another reason that Figure of Destiny is worth consideration, just because a burn deck without untargeted damage has no answers to Leyline of Sanctity. It reminds me a little bit of that manaless dredge deck that won an SCG open because nobody packed leyline of the void. Running a deck which literally just scoops to white leyline seems ill-advised. In the context of modern where people can actually afford to pack white leyline, burn may not even be worth playing, and a RDW plan of mixed burn and aggressive creatures seems more prudent.
EDH:
RG Xenagos, God of Revels
BUG Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
With Missteps banned, this is an auto-include on SB.
And as mentioned above, I don't think Burn or RDW Have enough power to handle all the combos decks in this format. This deck need more reprints, like Chain Lightning and Price of Progress.
16 Mountain
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Guide
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Sudden Shock
4 Molten Rain
4 Flame Javelin
4 Flames of the Blood Hand
This is what I have been playing on MTGO. I've been winning most of my games but it can be tricky against fast combo decks. With Thoughtseize, Probe, Fetchlands, and pain/shocklands, burn is very viable. (notice I said *burn* NOT RDW) I believe 4 Molten Rain is a must-include because it always slows your opponent while dealing damage. I've been thinking about turning the Sudden Shocks into either Magma Jets or Incinerates; Sudden Shock is probably strictly worse than these two. Another couple of cards that have been on my mind are: Rite of Flame, Shard Volley, Goblin Grenade, and Shrapnel Blast.
Burn= More burn spells
RBW Mardu Pyro
X Eldrazi
Pauper:
X Affinity
G Stompy
You have no idea what you're talking about. This is probably because you were never taught the difference between Burn and RDW. Burn decks are very simply designed to completely ignore their opponent and end the game with burn to the dome, just like a combo deck made out of Lightning Bolts. RDW is a very aggressive deck, but one with a bunch of stable threats (see: 20-20-20 ratio) because often the gameplan involves using burn as removal and sitting on one stable threat to clock the opponent down into low enough life that about 2 burn spells will win the game.
If you're playing Figure of Destiny, you're not playing Burn. Whatever Legacy list you found isn't a Burn deck either. Figure is a sideboard card for match-ups where you might want a stable threat (like against someone gaining a lot of life) or for times when you think your opponent might have taken out his removal and is leaning too heavily on countermagic. Otherwise, it's terrible for this archetype. Your goal is to kill your opponent, not to produce a favorable board position by using 5 total mana to make a 4/4 creature that can be blocked or killed very easily. Every mana you sink into that guy is mana that should be spent on a Lightning Bolt.
Goblin Guide does 6 damage by turn 3 for one mana. Figure does 6 damage by turn 3 for 5 mana. Guide requires a minimal investment for maximum damage. Figure requires that you dump mana into your creature instead of using your precious mana to throw more burn at your opponent. It doesn't matter that you have a higher ceiling for damage with your Figure because Burn is purely about winning through tempo, and Figure of Destiny is the anti-tempo.
Either you're playing 4 Lava Spike or you're not playing a Burn deck. There is a difference between RDW and Burn. You've found yourself on the RDW side of the line.
Burn decks are designed to lose to Leyline of Sanctity. The whole point of playing Burn in a tournament is that you're taking a Hail Mary and expecting to hit a bunch of decks which are fetching and shocking themselves, so you can kill them quickly. You aren't expecting to fight through a bunch of Martyr of Sands and CoP: Reds. If you think that people are going to be running more than a minimal amount of hate, then you don't play Burn in the tournament. It's a calculated gamble, just like with any other deck and specifically with any other combo deck. Most of the time, the calculations predict it to be wrong, but people ignore that and still play the deck in tournaments anyways. Then they don't win the tournament because they made a bad decision when they sleeved up that deck on that particular day.
Burn is a deck where you have 18 mountains and 42 lightning bolts. Too bad you cant have 42 lightning bolts, so you find lightning bolt like spells, too bad there's still not 42 lightning bolt like spells, so you find sorta like lightning bolt spells, too bad again there's still some space left, so you fill the rest with goblin guides, too bad you have too many space of goblin guides, so you put in keldon mauraders.
The point is this, burn decks burn... the end, they dont do anything else but burn. They're actually kinda bad, cus they arent consistantly fast like creature aggro, and they lose to many effect cards. Basically, they may be faster than zoo, but not all the time, and certainly you cant keep up putting out damage like creature aggro.
so it's like this, you draw 7 cards to start with right? and you're allowed 4 more cards, okay, what number do you have to multiply 3 with to be greater than 20? 7..., so if you draw 3 lands, and keep drawing lightning bolts, you win... i guess. Turn one you can shoot them once, turn 2 twice, turn 3 thrice. Notice that is only 6, so at best situations under standard conditions, you get to win turn 4, maybe. If they shocked themselves or something, you win turn 3, but again, you dont have just lightning bolts.
As I was saying, burn's pretty bad, cus of various effects. For example, if your opponent summoned a rhox ********, you lose. If they play kitchen gay, you lose. If they have Layline of I get to not get hit by spells opening hand, you lose. Turn 1 Elixir of healing yourself, you lose. Basically they get off 1 healing spell, you lose. They play any type control, and its to be their advantage, you lose.
So why play burn? cus it's gimmicks, it's simple, it requires not much brain power, if you just wanna have fun, the cards also arent that expansive. (make a modern burn deck for like maybe 50 bucks, the entire deck.) And guess what? it wins.
It wins cus if you play against any creature aggro that's slower than the fastest creature aggro, you win. (turn three aoe all their creatures, you win) If you play against any combo deck that can not win in 5 turns, you win. If you play against control deck that can not stop you from killing them in 5 turns, you win. So really, burn's trolling, it's setting the bar, it's saying "if you want to ride on this trollercoaster, you gotta be at least this tall, aka you gotta have spent money in your cards to maximize your deck."
Burn kills almost all casual decks, and even some not so up to par tourney decks, for very little amount of money. Now obviously, healing is not uncommon, and if they get one off, you lose. Various effects and spells are not uncommon. It's just, people dont have them in their sideboard, they're much more worried about having to face zoo, or control, or combo decks, and let me tell you something, healing doesnt help them against any of those decks. But some healing cards are in the side boards of tourney decks, because they also have other functions; sometimes they're mainboard cus they're so good. Why have Rhox war monk? cus it's so good, 3/4 for 3 with life link, thank you... Why have kitchen finks? cus it's so good, 3/2 for 3 with 4 points of healing and 2 blocks or attacks. Did you know that Elixir of immorality wins over a the ****ty little sister of burn decks, the mill decks? Now mill decks dont have to worry about healing... sorta, it's just a good idea to run those cards. If they do, and they draw them, you lose.
So people get a bit butthurt and try to make burn into a serious deck by having flame break, sulfuric vortex, anti healing, etc etc. It's still not enough... most of the time, because while sulfuric vortex is so good, you get to play it turn 3, which translates into 2 damage each turn, and no healing, but by that time, you've ran out of juice. Zoo will kill you in 2 turns, and in the mean time, you're killing yourself with the 2 damage. Now I didnt know those 3 for 4 damage spells exist, would be good to deal with rhox in legacy, but then again, in legacy you gotta deal with turn 2 storm decks, 5 color control, legacy zoo, etc.
I mean i guess it's fun to go to a tourney, maybe even a casual tourney with a good burn deck and see how far you can go, but as soon as you meet people that have put enough quality thought and money into their decks, you're probably not going to win... I mean it's fun that your casual friends say things like, "I worked really hard on this deck, and it's pretty good." and you beat him with legacy burn, hands down. It's honest more the par, but the par is never the best.
Oh I almost forgot, if you play against black, first turn, swamp, dark rit, hymn, you lose. Any healing, any discard, any damage redirection, you cant cast spell on player, you lose. Thanks spellskite... Also forgot to include, if you had to mulligan, you'll probably lose.
Traditionally, you got 18 mountains, no more no less, no fetch lands, you need 3 mountains, 1 each turn for the first 3 turns, then you want to stop drawing mountains (which is a very low chance, but you never know, burn decks games should last shorter than 5 turns, with some rare 3 turn wins, average 4 turn wins.)
Lightning bolt, lava spike, goblin guide and rift bolt are not up for discussion. Thats 16 cards. You have 26 cards left. Here are some good cards and what i think about them. If I didnt include certain cards, that means those cards are bad. I dont feel like explaining why they're bad.
shard volley: only use as finisher, you need 3 lands.
everlasting torment: no damage, anti healing, used to replace sulfuric vortex, probably not worth it, but I mean no anti healing is not the answer to healing just because the options are bad.
Flame break: good aoe, but cost three. You need this vs creature aggro, cus you cant afford to use your direct damage spells on creatures, but again, it's 3 mana for 3 damage.. not the best ratio.
volcanic fallout: see flame break, maybe sideboard, if they have no life link creatures, you might be able to aoe enough to out last creature aggro decks. This is even worse ratio than flame break.
magma jet: I see you're already doing your hail mary if you draw this card, 2 for 2 damage, you might get to draw a better card next turn, that is if your luck is good, and your opponent is letting you live for another turn. I dont like it.
manamorphose: this is a blank card, as in you want a lightning bolt, and maybe this card will turn into a lightning bolt if you say beetle juice 3 times really fast. If you draw a land, lol sucks to be you. You better still have spells to use in hand.
Hellspark elemental: it's really 2 cards, the ratio isnt good, it's 2 for 3 damage, at most, assuming there's no blocker, you get to play it twice. It's better than the other choices in my opinion.
Keldon Marauder: it's 2 damage, no matter what for 2 mana, that kinda sucks, but it's also a blocker for one turn, and maybe it can kill a creature next turn, maybe it gets to block again next turn, or best situation, it deals 3 damage to your opponent, so at best the ratio is 5 damage for 2 mana, kinda close to lightning bolt.
Flame of the blood hand: I actually dont know how this works, like if your opponent already gain life, would those life get taken away if this spell resolve? If that's true, then it's pretty damn good. It may be a counter to kitchen finks, I like it, may test it. It's still no sulfuric vortex
Flame Javelin: Use to kill rhox war monk, I really hate that creature. ratio is pretty bad. 3 for 4 damage... ummmm... the reason to even include this card is to kill the 4 life creatures.
Searing blaze: i dont like it, you need the opponent to have a creature out, generally, you dont want your opponent to have a creature out. also land fall restriction makes it so that you can play this turn 2 or 3, for a 2 for 3 damage ratio, thats not going to kill rhox war monk...
Browbeat: well you guys already know why and why not.
Dismember: take 4 damage to kill a 5 life creature, cost 1, may be better than flame javelin to take care of rhox war monk, again i really hate that creature. You may say, it can take care of other creatures, well see, burn doesnt need to do that unless that creature has life link, burn just tough it out like a man, it also doesnt counter kitchen finks... Dismember doesnt do damage... sideboard at best.
Smash to smithereens: side board only, it's good for killing certain artifacts and artifact creatures and doing damage at the same time.
Mudbrawler Cohort: you wish this was a goblin guide, you better have another creature on the field or it's 1/1 for 1, lol. You play this turn 2, assuming you started with turn 1 goblin guide, which you cant count on. Maybe if you had another creature turn 2 and you play this turn 3... a bit meh.
goblin grenade: if you have enough goblins in your deck, its okay, but you may not want to count on that. Otherwise, it's a damn good spell.
blood moon: sideboard, used to kill combo decks.
Boggart Ram-Gang: only going to see combat 2 turns at most, also, you dont get to do anything else third turn if you play this.
Leyline of Punishment: you hail mary that this is in your opening hand, you cant afford to play this turn 4, you dont have the land, lol. I think if you use flame of the blood hand, it's good enough.
ratch bomb: only to get rid of Leylines, but you pretty much gonna lose if they turn 0 leyline of san, i suggest you just go for broke and hope they dont have that in their sideboard and draw it in opening hand.
Pithing Needle: sideboard, you know why.