The main decks that I have been playing against have been Affinity, Merfolk, Tron, and Pod.
Any suggestions for cards to change or swap would be appreciated. I am still working on getting Tarmogoyf. Still not sure about running 4 Tectonic Edge, and 4 Treetop Village.
I am still struggling a bit with the sideboard, and when to swap in what as well.
Nothing wrong about your list it looks pretty staple. Personally I dont like too much come into play tapped lands. With 4 Treetops chances are high you end up with 2 on your starting hand and that just feels very clunky. If you are unfortunate you get a treetop and 2 tec edges or something like that.
I have been thinking about going down to 2 Treetops, and 2 tec edges. If I go that route what would you put back in it place? or would you do a different number? Do you think going down to 23 lands would hurt the deck much?
I dont know about the decay, probably against Affinity and Tempo Delver decks? Maybe switch it with a 3rd Stony Silence to shore up Affinity and Tron in your Meta.
Infest can be used against Affinity, Tokens and Meerfolk. Swarm decks in general. You migh try out Engineered Explosives here as it doesnt kill most of your own creatures (souls, Bob, DRS) which is relevant. EE can also be used in a lot of matchups. Sometimes its slower though.
Set EE
- on 0 or 2 against Tokens to sweep either the board or all anthems
- on 2 against Meerfolk to sweep all their lords and Spreadings Seas
- on 2 against Affinity to kill pesky Vault Skirges, Overeer, Ravager and Plating. or on 0 against Inkmoth. Huge card here
- on 1 against Bogles to sweep every enchantment (coronet has no target after every other 1 mana enchantment is gone; the bogle will still life though)
- on 0/1/2 against Infect to sweep their dude. Cant be proteced against this with Vines of Vastwood or Apostles Blessing or Spellskite.
I like this idea i will try to work this in i think.
Pulse is a catch-all but I dont know if you want to sideboard it. I would rather add more specific hate for matchups in your meta (Linvala against Pod and Affinity). Still a fine card though.
Thinking about what you said here, still not sure which way to go.
I run 3 treetops and rarely have a problem with them entering tapped. I also run 3 tec-edge, which just have won me so many games that I really don't want to go down on them, even though they probably have caused me an equal amount of mulligans as they've won me games. Luckily the deck mulligans quite well and I win quite frequently with 5 cards and occasionally with 4.
I strongly recommend Zealous Persecution in side instead of the 3rd pulse. That card has just won me so many games. People just really dont see it coming and it is just such a blowout against a lot of decks, this one included. The synergy with LS is just really sweet too.
Also Torpor Orb I only run as a one-of these days, although might be two are justified if that devotion to genesis deck starts becoming popular. Against splinter removal is king, and the matchup is soo good you don't really need it. Against melira-pod you will usually be able to keep them from going off with ooze, deathrite and path to exile, so they most likely win through beatdown if they win. The newest kiki-pod deck hardly runs any enter battlefield cards at all. They run cards like Falkenrath Aristocrat, in which case the torpor orb just feels embarrassing.
I'm personally most afraid of UWR at the moment as the only 0-2 losses I have had during the last two weeks (around 60 matches on cockatrice and 5 in real life) with this deck has been to two UWR-decks (and two decks I hadn't played against before). So I run two Thrun in sideboard now, but I guess 1 of them should probably be Linvala as I think the UWR matchup should be favorable really (especially my list as I run 3 Voices), but really need to know how to play the matchup. On the draw it's sometimes impossible without IOK or seize, as they always counter your turn 2 and turn 3 plays(they electrolyze instead if you cast LS), then they usually suffer a bit of dmg from an ooze or goyf before they start chaining cryptics and get me down to burn-range with manlands or just cliques or snapcasters.
I think it can be played around if you know how. In the UWR games that I won I used IOK or seize turn 1 and managed to play around his stuff quite ok, which would mean that it's probably possible to do so even if you don't know his/her hand if you have played the matchup enough. After side, the Thruns+fulminators might sometimes give you easy wins also.
Nice tournament report! I also went 3-1 last friday. Burn is hard eh. Thanks for the tip against UWR, really nice line of play which I probably wouldnt have seen. Since I'm so scared of manaleak I usually always end up taking it, especially if I sit on a voice. Really need to think through the first turn IoK or TS against them.
I wonder if anyone has considered any good sideboard against Genesis Wave yet. The first three times I played against it I won, but now the last three I have lost, seems like it's evolving fast and the latest version seemed rediculously powerful when on the play. My thoughts so far is that pathing the arbor elf in his upkeep is actually good here as that arbor elf can end up generating like 4-5 mana a turn by untapping a forest enchanted with loads of ground sprawls and fertile grounds, which often allows him to use Nykthos after playing something that gives a lot devotion. If he untaps that land+Nykthos again with Garruk he suddenly gets like 12 mana and plays genesis wave already turn 4.. In the beginning I thought pathing the primeval titan would be ok, but he fetches a red land and kessig wolf run, so he kills me with a mana dork that swings for 15 trample damage the next turn.. The only answer I can think of is ghost quarter, but that isn't exactly something I want. Tectonic edge and fulminator are useless as they enchant a basic that I can't touch.
The deck is so incredibly resilient also. This last game just now I killed his garruk 3 times (with Elspeth), but he got them back with 2 Eternal Witness and then played a second Garruk and then he genesis waved. I killed the garruk and survived a turn with voices and goyfs, but he found 2 Kessigs with his titans, so could only path one of his guys the following turn and died.
Hopefully the matchup will become better once I start respecting his early land enchantments and manadorks. I could have abrupt decayed an enchantment, but you always figure that it's better to take the creature that follows, but then he plays garruk or harmonize(or both) and you end up playing something else and then it's too late. To me the deck just feels like Tron on speed or something. Really scary stuff.
I'm considering trying out a version with Voice of Resurgence rather than Tarmogoyf because Tarmogoyf costs way too much. I won't be able to get any more until Mid-summer. Is this a good idea, or should I keep the Goyf I have (Rather than trade it for Goyfs), and just buy them this Summer? Is the deck only competitively viable with Goyfs?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Collecting Maw of the Mire! Feel free to send me any you have, so long as they're in reasonable condition.
One problem I encountered was the interaction between Scavenging Ooze, Tarmogoyf, and Deathrite Shaman. In the greenish mirror, graveyards become somewhat empty, and I was concerned with Tarmogoyf becoming too small, playing out like Kitchen Finks in long games. Sooo... I cut them.
I cut Tarmogoyf.
It’s okay if you want to stop reading now. I get it. I’m crazy, delusional, and just plain bad.
Playing with both Tarmogoyf and Scavenging Ooze was also an option, but at that point there wouldn’t be enough room for the desired number of utility removal and discard spells—although adjusting the numbers was an option. For example, I could have gone down to two Birds, four discard, and so on to make room for everyone’s favorite Lhurgoyf, but that was a lot of creatures, and cutting the other cards seemed like it would hurt other matchups where Tarmogoyf wasn’t amazing. I decided that Scavenging Ooze and Voice of Resurgence were going to be better against the field.
Voice of Resurgence changes the way decks have to play against you—the game dynamic is completely different. Playing spells in response to a Liliana activation, a discard spell, Snapcaster Mage in response to a Deathrite activation, or a draw step Vendilion Clique become less than optimal. Elemental tokens from Voice of Resurgence also get rather big in conjunction with Lingering Souls; it was the Tarmogoyf slot.
I too am looking into going Voice over Goyf because of cost, but tbh I think unfortunately Goyf outclasses it. Voice of Resurgence is best when coming up against UWR or such decks and best when you have Lingering Souls online. As Ochoa said, changing your opponent's dynamic is awesome but I've found typically they can easily get around it. Don't ever expect to be fortunate enough to get 2 elemental tokens. Otherwise you're just better off having the big fat fatty for 2 cmc. That being said, I think the deck is still totally viable without Goyf and still very powerful and a ton of fun to play.
In my build I run 3 voice and 2 goyfs and the goyf is usually better when I draw it late, while the voice is very good turn 2. I think it depends on your build a bit. If you run more than average removal, than goyf is probably better. Voice can be a bit underwhelming in some matchups though, and just end up as a 2/2 for two. In the beginning I ran 3 Lingering Souls, but went over to 4 after seeing just how powerful that card is combined with he voice token. It's not rare that they use pyroclasm/damnation/wrath of god/you name it on two voices and a lot of other jank, and then next turn I play LS+flashback and hit for 12, which usually is game. The syngery in the deck just goes to a new level when you add the voices and a nice bonus is that it can give you free wins against noobs/tired people/people having a bad day. Most players are used to respond to voice, but just yesterday I play voice and ask him ok? And he says sure and shows a lightning bolt. I start putting my life total down by 3, but he says no and points at the voice...I make my two tokens, which were followed by LS on turn 3 and he scoopes when I flashback and play an scavenging ooze on turn 4. If they make the mistake to kill your voice without getting rid of token immediately, it quickly ends up getting bigger than the goyf in many cases.
I'm really not sure which card is better. Even against UWR goyf is often a winner as he is 3/4 on turn two most of the time and thus out of bolt range, but a resolved voice is also winning. They will for sure try to tap out to deal with both voice and token on turn 2 if they don't counter it, which makes Lilaiana come down without opposition turn 3. Both are just really good, and most games will probably not be decided by which one you run, but just by how well you play. Anyway I really recommend voice, but it's fun running all three. Get to see some interesting faces when you have bob, goyf and voice on the table and your opponent just can't figure out which one it should use path to exile on.
Your list seems to be too heavy on the 3-drop to me and you only run 22 lands. I would both go for 23 lands and then make at least 2 of the smiters into Tarmogoyfs or voices. You're not always going to have turn 1 DRS+fetch, so having enough 2-drops is really important. Both goyf and voice are very good in those matchups. Hatebears on the play can do some really nasty stuff, but usually it's fairly inconsistent and mulligans badly so should not worry too much about it.
Now you didn't post your sideboard, but against both those deck a resolved Blood Baron of Vizkopa, Batterskull or Sigarda, Host of Herons usually wins you the game if they don't already have a Sigarda or Baneslayer Angel out already. Against Hatebears it's important to side out the Liliana's as they have voices, kitchen finks, smiters and, Wilt-Leaf Liege and sometimes Sigarda, who all laugh in her face.
Against Jund it's a bit of a mind-game. If you know they have lots of Obstinate Baloth in side somehow then side her out, and if you play against Ajundi lists that run Lingering Souls I would also side her out at least most of them. Personally I also run Zealous Conscripts in side and like to bring that in. Against Hatebears it can be insane, outright killing Aven Mindcensors, Thalias, Noble Hierachs, Birds of Paradise, persited finks, but there usually will be blocking in those games anyway, which means you can often get a 3-1+tempo from the card just by taking them off guard.
While I don't run Linvala, Keeper of Silence myself, she's a good option for sideboard against Jund as well. I used to run Damnation in sideboard as well and would probably bring that in against Jund, but this can sometimes become a dead card, so I personally don't use it anymore.
Thats weird... i just counted my lands and I play 23 in fact. Must have miscounted while posting.
I was planning on getting a playset of voice to fix this, but goyf are off the chart for me, wayyy too expensive. I was thinking of removing one smiter, one Elspeth and a ooze and see how it goes. Probably go 2 ooze, 3 voice and 3 smiter.
Thank you for the advices, they are very appreciated. I'll adjust my SB and see how it goes.
*Yea i forgot one temple garden. Silly me in the morning.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing modern: all BGx, storm, burn, green eldrazi, dredge.
The last land would be better as a godless Shrine in that list I believe. With 2 Elspeth you actually will have to find 2 godless shrine if you start of with a Treetop on turn 1 and only have let's sec Tectonic Edge of or vault apart from two fetches. Having two godless has at least made Liliana into Elspeth quite painless for me a lot of games.
The last land would be better as a godless Shrine in that list I believe. With 2 Elspeth you actually will have to find 2 godless shrine if you start of with a Treetop on turn 1 and only have let's sec Tectonic Edge of or vault apart from two fetches. Having two godless has at least made Liliana into Elspeth quite painless for me a lot of games.
Oh! I'll do that right away. I always have trouble when it comes to tune the mana base.
I was considering of adding one gavony township to the lands instead instead of a godless shrines. Thoughts?
If you plan to run so many utility lands I would definetly go Knight of the Reliquary over Loxodon Smiter. Personally I just run 3 tectonic edge, but that's mostly because of loads of Tron in my meta and also want to be able to deal with opposing man-lands. Never tested with them so don't really know what I'm missing out on.
I'm looking at fleecemane lion and I must say, he's one sexy kitty. I'm planning on using him as a cheap substitute to goyf/voice along my ozzes. What do you guys think of him? Maybe 2 of him in the main?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing modern: all BGx, storm, burn, green eldrazi, dredge.
Well you can always substitute stuff, but it's a reason it's a substitute. It's obviously a lot worse than Voice/goyf. Fleecemane dies to pretty much every removal spell that is being played in modern and leaves nothing behind, so as a substitute for voice he will just be a lot worse in every aspect. The point with goyf is to be a 4-5 turn clock on its own, so you can always look for slower clocks to do the work but it will obviously cause you to lose some games, especially mirrors. If you're looking for a cheap modern deck I don't really think this is the right deck to be honest.
Well you can always substitute stuff, but it's a reason it's a substitute. It's obviously a lot worse than Voice/goyf. Fleecemane dies to pretty much every removal spell that is being played in modern and leaves nothing behind, so as a substitute for voice he will just be a lot worse in every aspect. The point with goyf is to be a 4-5 turn clock on its own, so you can always look for slower clocks to do the work but it will obviously cause you to lose some games, especially mirrors. If you're looking for a cheap modern deck I don't really think this is the right deck to be honest.
Yes I know that goyf is pretty, goyf is good, goyf do the dishes. We all know that.
I'm planning on buying a set of voice later in january. But for now, ALL I'm missing is some two drop to play with. Not to replace totaly goyf, but to play instead. Not to do the same job, not to be as cool or efficient, just to play an ''ok'' card. The lion is obviously better than, lets say, squire or grizzly bears, but worst than the goyf. I'm VERY aware of that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing modern: all BGx, storm, burn, green eldrazi, dredge.
Playing 4 voices instead of 4 goys is completely viable and could even be better, I have seen lists with it recently. Goyf has bad synergy with deathrite and scavenging ooze, though good with IoK,thoughtseize and Lilly. Personally I run 3 bob, 3 voice, 2 ooze and 2 goyf. From my experience so far I believe 2 voice and 3 goyf might be slightly better, but it's not an easy call for sure, especially post board.
I dream of the day my Bob will enter the battlefield and survive long enough to draw me a card. So far, I'm still waiting The poor guy always get bolted, thorned appart, exiled or somekind of gruesome fate.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing modern: all BGx, storm, burn, green eldrazi, dredge.
I dream of the day my Bob will enter the battlefield and survive long enough to draw me a card. So far, I'm still waiting The poor guy always get bolted, thorned appart, exiled or somekind of gruesome fate.
I know the feeling from when I used to play this deck. I always wanted to have an artist alter him to be a red shirt from Star Trek, Kenny from South Park, or something along those lines.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Overall I am fairly happy with it.
The main decks that I have been playing against have been Affinity, Merfolk, Tron, and Pod.
Any suggestions for cards to change or swap would be appreciated. I am still working on getting Tarmogoyf. Still not sure about running 4 Tectonic Edge, and 4 Treetop Village.
I am still struggling a bit with the sideboard, and when to swap in what as well.
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Fulminator Mage
4 Loxodon Smiter
Spells:20
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Path to Exile
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple Garden
4 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Thoughtseize
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Stony Silence
2 Torpor Orb
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Infest
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Thanks again
Thanks for the feedback.
I have been thinking about going down to 2 Treetops, and 2 tec edges. If I go that route what would you put back in it place? or would you do a different number? Do you think going down to 23 lands would hurt the deck much?
I think I like this idea.
I like this idea i will try to work this in i think.
Thinking about what you said here, still not sure which way to go.
I will keep Thrun, but may remove Corrosion.
Thanks again for the input.
I strongly recommend Zealous Persecution in side instead of the 3rd pulse. That card has just won me so many games. People just really dont see it coming and it is just such a blowout against a lot of decks, this one included. The synergy with LS is just really sweet too.
Also Torpor Orb I only run as a one-of these days, although might be two are justified if that devotion to genesis deck starts becoming popular. Against splinter removal is king, and the matchup is soo good you don't really need it. Against melira-pod you will usually be able to keep them from going off with ooze, deathrite and path to exile, so they most likely win through beatdown if they win. The newest kiki-pod deck hardly runs any enter battlefield cards at all. They run cards like Falkenrath Aristocrat, in which case the torpor orb just feels embarrassing.
I'm personally most afraid of UWR at the moment as the only 0-2 losses I have had during the last two weeks (around 60 matches on cockatrice and 5 in real life) with this deck has been to two UWR-decks (and two decks I hadn't played against before). So I run two Thrun in sideboard now, but I guess 1 of them should probably be Linvala as I think the UWR matchup should be favorable really (especially my list as I run 3 Voices), but really need to know how to play the matchup. On the draw it's sometimes impossible without IOK or seize, as they always counter your turn 2 and turn 3 plays(they electrolyze instead if you cast LS), then they usually suffer a bit of dmg from an ooze or goyf before they start chaining cryptics and get me down to burn-range with manlands or just cliques or snapcasters.
I think it can be played around if you know how. In the UWR games that I won I used IOK or seize turn 1 and managed to play around his stuff quite ok, which would mean that it's probably possible to do so even if you don't know his/her hand if you have played the matchup enough. After side, the Thruns+fulminators might sometimes give you easy wins also.
I wonder if anyone has considered any good sideboard against Genesis Wave yet. The first three times I played against it I won, but now the last three I have lost, seems like it's evolving fast and the latest version seemed rediculously powerful when on the play. My thoughts so far is that pathing the arbor elf in his upkeep is actually good here as that arbor elf can end up generating like 4-5 mana a turn by untapping a forest enchanted with loads of ground sprawls and fertile grounds, which often allows him to use Nykthos after playing something that gives a lot devotion. If he untaps that land+Nykthos again with Garruk he suddenly gets like 12 mana and plays genesis wave already turn 4.. In the beginning I thought pathing the primeval titan would be ok, but he fetches a red land and kessig wolf run, so he kills me with a mana dork that swings for 15 trample damage the next turn.. The only answer I can think of is ghost quarter, but that isn't exactly something I want. Tectonic edge and fulminator are useless as they enchant a basic that I can't touch.
The deck is so incredibly resilient also. This last game just now I killed his garruk 3 times (with Elspeth), but he got them back with 2 Eternal Witness and then played a second Garruk and then he genesis waved. I killed the garruk and survived a turn with voices and goyfs, but he found 2 Kessigs with his titans, so could only path one of his guys the following turn and died.
Hopefully the matchup will become better once I start respecting his early land enchantments and manadorks. I could have abrupt decayed an enchantment, but you always figure that it's better to take the creature that follows, but then he plays garruk or harmonize(or both) and you end up playing something else and then it's too late. To me the deck just feels like Tron on speed or something. Really scary stuff.
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/according-to-webster-developing-junk-in-modern/
BWGJunkBWG
BRGJundBRG
B1Eldrazi ShopsB1
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothBG
BUWJenara, Asura of WarBUW
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR
I'm really not sure which card is better. Even against UWR goyf is often a winner as he is 3/4 on turn two most of the time and thus out of bolt range, but a resolved voice is also winning. They will for sure try to tap out to deal with both voice and token on turn 2 if they don't counter it, which makes Lilaiana come down without opposition turn 3. Both are just really good, and most games will probably not be decided by which one you run, but just by how well you play. Anyway I really recommend voice, but it's fun running all three. Get to see some interesting faces when you have bob, goyf and voice on the table and your opponent just can't figure out which one it should use path to exile on.
I just had my first little tournament yesterday night (9 players). I went 2-2 and learned a lot so It was a very good night for me.
But I had a pretty bad time against 2 match up: w/g hate bears and jund.
Any good side board option to suggest me?
My list:
3 scavenging ooze
4 deathrite shaman
4 dark confidant
3 abrupt decay
3 thoughseize
4 inquisition of kozilek
3 path to exile
4 linguering souls
2 elspet knight errand
4 verdant catacomb
4 marsh flats
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 tectonic edge
1 plain
2 temple garden
1 godless shrine
1 vault of the archangel
1 swamp
1 fetid heat
2 treetop village
2 forest
2 overgrown tomb
Your list seems to be too heavy on the 3-drop to me and you only run 22 lands. I would both go for 23 lands and then make at least 2 of the smiters into Tarmogoyfs or voices. You're not always going to have turn 1 DRS+fetch, so having enough 2-drops is really important. Both goyf and voice are very good in those matchups. Hatebears on the play can do some really nasty stuff, but usually it's fairly inconsistent and mulligans badly so should not worry too much about it.
Now you didn't post your sideboard, but against both those deck a resolved Blood Baron of Vizkopa, Batterskull or Sigarda, Host of Herons usually wins you the game if they don't already have a Sigarda or Baneslayer Angel out already. Against Hatebears it's important to side out the Liliana's as they have voices, kitchen finks, smiters and, Wilt-Leaf Liege and sometimes Sigarda, who all laugh in her face.
Against Jund it's a bit of a mind-game. If you know they have lots of Obstinate Baloth in side somehow then side her out, and if you play against Ajundi lists that run Lingering Souls I would also side her out at least most of them. Personally I also run Zealous Conscripts in side and like to bring that in. Against Hatebears it can be insane, outright killing Aven Mindcensors, Thalias, Noble Hierachs, Birds of Paradise, persited finks, but there usually will be blocking in those games anyway, which means you can often get a 3-1+tempo from the card just by taking them off guard.
While I don't run Linvala, Keeper of Silence myself, she's a good option for sideboard against Jund as well. I used to run Damnation in sideboard as well and would probably bring that in against Jund, but this can sometimes become a dead card, so I personally don't use it anymore.
I was planning on getting a playset of voice to fix this, but goyf are off the chart for me, wayyy too expensive. I was thinking of removing one smiter, one Elspeth and a ooze and see how it goes. Probably go 2 ooze, 3 voice and 3 smiter.
Thank you for the advices, they are very appreciated. I'll adjust my SB and see how it goes.
*Yea i forgot one temple garden. Silly me in the morning.
Oh! I'll do that right away. I always have trouble when it comes to tune the mana base.
I was considering of adding one gavony township to the lands instead instead of a godless shrines. Thoughts?
3 scavenging ooze
4 deathrite shaman
4 dark confidant
3 abrupt decay
3 thoughseize
4 inquisition of kozilek
3 path to exile
4 linguering souls
4 liliana of the veil
2 elspet knight errand
4 marsh flats1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 tectonic edge
1 plain
1 temple garden
1 godless shrine
1 vault of the archangel
1 swamp
1 fetid heat
2 treetop village
2 forest
2 overgrown tomb
1 gavony township
Yes I know that goyf is pretty, goyf is good, goyf do the dishes. We all know that.
I'm planning on buying a set of voice later in january. But for now, ALL I'm missing is some two drop to play with. Not to replace totaly goyf, but to play instead. Not to do the same job, not to be as cool or efficient, just to play an ''ok'' card. The lion is obviously better than, lets say, squire or grizzly bears, but worst than the goyf. I'm VERY aware of that.
I know the feeling from when I used to play this deck. I always wanted to have an artist alter him to be a red shirt from Star Trek, Kenny from South Park, or something along those lines.