Trust me, it is MUCH easier to get a 10+ storm count than 15+ mana in your pool.
You shouldn't be killing creatures with your wincons except as a last resort (i.e. you think you stand a good chance of fizzling). Killing Goyf sounds nice, less so when you realize you have to throw away 2+ rituals to do it.
Anyway, IF it comes down to wiping your opponent's board, Grapeshot is still better because you get to spread the damage as you like (so you can kill 2+ creatures).
Has anyone tested a singleBanefire ? if you put more than 5 mana into it it is uncounterable, and doesnt rely on a heavy storm count.
It'd only be good if you had an active Ascension, and even still, Grapeshot is more or less "uncounterable" to begin with. Grapeshot is also very good at pseduo Wrathing against creature decks while Banefire cannot do this.
I'm curious how many people have been testing Act on Impulse? Card draw in red is very good and helps a lot with turn 3 kills, clearly this card could just be jammed in instead of Faithless Looting or Desperate Ravings but the main criticism is that it's only really good when you're going off. The big seller for me is that with an active Ascension or Goblin Electromancer out it tend to eliminate any chance of fizzling, it also makes multiple Goblin Electromancers a little more useful. I've been goldfishing a lot of games and it feels like a more explosive deck with its addition.
We already had a conversation about this a couple pages ago. The conclusion was that it's really bad because costing 3 and not being able to dig until the turn you go off outweighs all the benefits.
Been a Legacy player mostly up until about a year ago, when i started getting into Modern as well. I'v been a huge fan of Storm in
Legacy and immediately got into Modern UR Storm as soon as i started playing Modern. My list has gone through a lot of changes since i first started playing the deck, and i have actually settled on some somewhat different choices than a lot of what i see here.
As far as Faithless looting, i'm not 100% sure it's correct, and i flop around around between Looting and Thought Scour every once in a while, but i have been leaning towards Looting for a bit now. What i like about it, is first off, it's red so you can play it without worrying about choking on blue(this also lets me get away with playing Peer), also it actually draws 2 cards, so t1 it provides another card that can actually dig for a land or engine. What i also like about it, is this deck can sometimes clump up on engine pieces, and win conditions, both before and during the combo. Looting lets you cycle those dead cards, lands, extra Past in Flames, etc, for something more useful. Obviously it's downside comes from it's lack of real card advantage and it can sometimes make mulligans annoying. So it really is a toss up, but right now at least i'm on Looting.
With Peer through Depths what i like is that it can find whatever you need. This card is so good in this deck, i'm actually surprised i don't see more people playing it. This is probably one of the most important cards in the deck for me, and what wins me the game most actually. This is what finds that Past in Flames so you can continue the combo, or that Ritual you need to start the combo, or that Grapeshot, or Empty the Warrens you need to actually finish the game. And with an Active Ascension this card is just absurd(but then again what card isn't with an active Ascension) Peer is also really good with Electromancer and makes solo Electromancer wins way easier to come by. It actually has me considering adding a second Empty the Warrens maindeck because of how easy it easy to shoot off quick Emptys with Electromancer.
Anyway the deck feels really consistent and fast, and i have been having a blast playing it.
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As far as the Banefire idea, i'm not really sold on it. As others have said, Grapeshot and Empty are basically uncounterable anyway. And they are both easier to pull off and actually win with.
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Peer through depths won't find a land, goblin electromancer or PA. Having lands or combo engines is more important than sweet option to dig deep for Past in Flames or ritual.
Blood Moon, Defense Grid, and Echoing Truth are all (potentially) solid. If it's not maindeck maybe bring in a singleton empty the warrens so you can ritual into 6-8 goblins and just beat them to death (if you think they might be running Anger of the Gods or Supreme Verdict post-sideboard you might want to cut empty). They have pretty low pressure so you can probably just wait until you have a fistful of spells, juice in your yard, and decent mana and force your way past their hate.
Peer through depths won't find a land, goblin electromancer or PA. Having lands or combo engines is more important than sweet option to dig deep for Past in Flames or ritual.
Ok, here's the thing though. Lets take a took at what cards are in the standard list that can dig for a land, or an engine.
Here we have 19 cards to dig which is pretty good. And a combined 36 cards deep worth of digging.
So really we are only losing 4 cards deep worth of digging. Now you also have to take into account the fact that Scour mills 2 cards when you cast it, and really only just cycles itself- If you draw an engine or land off Scour, because it only cycles itself, you would have had that card in hand anyway, if you weren't playing Scour. But now, what you doing is adding a chance of milling an out. That's a chance you don't even have to take. I'm not sure on the math, but my intuition tells me Thought Scour may actually have a negative impact on finding an engine rather than helping you.
Now i fully admit Scour has benefits elsewhere, can sometimes speed up the deck, and help set up Ascension, and Past in Flames. However the point i'm trying to make is that, running Looting and Peer really doesn't have a negative impact on your ability to find an engine at all.
There is another point to consider as well, on t1 Looting digs 2 for a land or engine, while Scour cycles itself into a card you would have had anyway, and mills 2.
So what this means, is that we essentially have the same chance to find a land or engine, but i also now have the ability to find exactly what i need to set up the combo, and not fizzle.
When it comes down to it though, it's really hard to measure because there are so many variables. The search package of Ravings and Scour has completely different pros and cons than running Peer and Looting.
I very well could be wrong, but at least for now, i think my search package feels extremely tight and consistent. I feel like the benefits of Looting and Peer, outway the benefits of Scour and Ravings, and at the same time is safer, and more consistent.
Thought Scour increases your chances of hitting an engine in exactly the same way as any cantrip increases your chances of hitting an engine. While the milling out technically does decrease the odds of you not drawing an engine, it only does so in the sense that if you were to draw your entire deck you could theoretically mill away all of your engines. On the scale of drawing 30-40 cards out of your 60 the mill does not affect your chances of drawing an engine, while it does provide a significant increase in the odds of you being able to successfully online an ascension or kill with pif.
Also, a mod needs to delete/lock one of the storm threads, it's confusing.
You shouldn't be killing creatures with your wincons except as a last resort (i.e. you think you stand a good chance of fizzling). Killing Goyf sounds nice, less so when you realize you have to throw away 2+ rituals to do it.
Anyway, IF it comes down to wiping your opponent's board, Grapeshot is still better because you get to spread the damage as you like (so you can kill 2+ creatures).
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Big Johnny.
It'd only be good if you had an active Ascension, and even still, Grapeshot is more or less "uncounterable" to begin with. Grapeshot is also very good at pseduo Wrathing against creature decks while Banefire cannot do this.
I'm curious how many people have been testing Act on Impulse? Card draw in red is very good and helps a lot with turn 3 kills, clearly this card could just be jammed in instead of Faithless Looting or Desperate Ravings but the main criticism is that it's only really good when you're going off. The big seller for me is that with an active Ascension or Goblin Electromancer out it tend to eliminate any chance of fizzling, it also makes multiple Goblin Electromancers a little more useful. I've been goldfishing a lot of games and it feels like a more explosive deck with its addition.
Legacy and immediately got into Modern UR Storm as soon as i started playing Modern. My list has gone through a lot of changes since i first started playing the deck, and i have actually settled on some somewhat different choices than a lot of what i see here.
Here's what i have been playing
4 Pyromancer Ascension
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
3 Faithless Looting
3 Peer Through Depths
4 Manamorphose
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Desperate Ritual
2 Grapeshot
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Scalding tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Steam Vents
2 Shivan Reef
2 Island
1 Mountain
3 Blood Moon
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Defense Grid
2 Swan Song
2 Echoing Truth
2 Shatterstorm
1 Empty the Warrens
So i guess the 3 things that stick out are Faithless Looting, Peer Through Depths, and maindeck Empty the Warrens.
As far as Faithless looting, i'm not 100% sure it's correct, and i flop around around between Looting and Thought Scour every once in a while, but i have been leaning towards Looting for a bit now. What i like about it, is first off, it's red so you can play it without worrying about choking on blue(this also lets me get away with playing Peer), also it actually draws 2 cards, so t1 it provides another card that can actually dig for a land or engine. What i also like about it, is this deck can sometimes clump up on engine pieces, and win conditions, both before and during the combo. Looting lets you cycle those dead cards, lands, extra Past in Flames, etc, for something more useful. Obviously it's downside comes from it's lack of real card advantage and it can sometimes make mulligans annoying. So it really is a toss up, but right now at least i'm on Looting.
With Peer through Depths what i like is that it can find whatever you need. This card is so good in this deck, i'm actually surprised i don't see more people playing it. This is probably one of the most important cards in the deck for me, and what wins me the game most actually. This is what finds that Past in Flames so you can continue the combo, or that Ritual you need to start the combo, or that Grapeshot, or Empty the Warrens you need to actually finish the game. And with an Active Ascension this card is just absurd(but then again what card isn't with an active Ascension) Peer is also really good with Electromancer and makes solo Electromancer wins way easier to come by. It actually has me considering adding a second Empty the Warrens maindeck because of how easy it easy to shoot off quick Emptys with Electromancer.
Anyway the deck feels really consistent and fast, and i have been having a blast playing it.
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As far as the Banefire idea, i'm not really sold on it. As others have said, Grapeshot and Empty are basically uncounterable anyway. And they are both easier to pull off and actually win with.
4 Pyromancer Ascension
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Thought Scour
3 Desperate Ravings
2 Grapeshot
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Shivan Reef
2 Steam Vents
3 Island
1 Mountain
Ok, here's the thing though. Lets take a took at what cards are in the standard list that can dig for a land, or an engine.
4 Manamorphose - 1 deep
4 Gitaxian Probe - 1 deep
4 Serum Visions - 3 deep
4 Sleight of Hand - 2 deep
4 Thought Scour - 1 deep
3 Desperate Ravings - 2 deep
we got 23 cards here, which is great. And a combined 40 cards deep worth of digging.
Here's the cards in my list that can dig for an engine, or land.
4 Manamorphose - 1 deep
4 Gitaxian Probe - 1 deep
4 Serum Visions - 3 deep
4 Sleight of Hand - 2 deep
3 Faithless Looting - 2 deep
Here we have 19 cards to dig which is pretty good. And a combined 36 cards deep worth of digging.
So really we are only losing 4 cards deep worth of digging. Now you also have to take into account the fact that Scour mills 2 cards when you cast it, and really only just cycles itself- If you draw an engine or land off Scour, because it only cycles itself, you would have had that card in hand anyway, if you weren't playing Scour. But now, what you doing is adding a chance of milling an out. That's a chance you don't even have to take. I'm not sure on the math, but my intuition tells me Thought Scour may actually have a negative impact on finding an engine rather than helping you.
Now i fully admit Scour has benefits elsewhere, can sometimes speed up the deck, and help set up Ascension, and Past in Flames. However the point i'm trying to make is that, running Looting and Peer really doesn't have a negative impact on your ability to find an engine at all.
There is another point to consider as well, on t1 Looting digs 2 for a land or engine, while Scour cycles itself into a card you would have had anyway, and mills 2.
So what this means, is that we essentially have the same chance to find a land or engine, but i also now have the ability to find exactly what i need to set up the combo, and not fizzle.
When it comes down to it though, it's really hard to measure because there are so many variables. The search package of Ravings and Scour has completely different pros and cons than running Peer and Looting.
I very well could be wrong, but at least for now, i think my search package feels extremely tight and consistent. I feel like the benefits of Looting and Peer, outway the benefits of Scour and Ravings, and at the same time is safer, and more consistent.
Also, a mod needs to delete/lock one of the storm threads, it's confusing.
Please continue the UR Storm discussion in the new thread here