I switched over to the Edge versions for the week, which I havent done since deathrite was first banned.
I forgot how many times I had to mulligan b/c of tec edge. With obliterator rock you almost never have to mulligan due to lands.
Having the tec edges and MD thrun is definitely a huge boon though against UWR. If your meta is infested with UWR Edge is the way to go.
Im a fan of garruk wildspeaker, I added him to the primer.
I gave the primer a bit of a facelift in general. I got the first post to the point where im happy with it. I still want to go back and edit sideboarding options. I ran thru matchups **very** quickly and hope to get back to refining them again soon.
NIN how did you feel about only having 2 Fulminator Mage in sideboard? Ive found in the games that I need them, I want them in multiples- if thats the case for you too- why not run 4 if not 3?
I think Edge is the way to go, period. It gives you a few extra percentage points in multiple matchups and is the reason I'm not wasting 1-2 extra SB slots on Fulminator Mages. I find with 6 ways to pop lands between the main and SB I'm happy. Perhaps if Tron was a more popular deck I would consider a third, but I will not stack my SB for a deck that represents such a small portion of the metagame.
The biggest strength of Garruk is his overrun allowing you to quickly end games which was not mentioned in the primer, Throst54.
Both decks have their strengths. I prefer the manabase on obliterator; you lose less games due to variance, and the card just crushes aggro strategies- which can be a problem for this deck in general. Edge is probably better in the mirror match (its hard to say) and control decks.
Darkblast is in the sideboarding section.
While an amazing card, there are a number of matchups its just bad against. Ill throw one MD next week and see how it fares me- but I usually play it in SB and am fine with it there.
Against the BGx deck i would have sided out the 2 darkblast. It literally only hits bob, siding in golgari charm as a way to regen your dudes is good, and it can still kill opposing bobs.
What are you bringing chalice of the void in against?
Arguing that tec edge and manlands are integral parts of the deck, couldnt you play another courser in the SB rather than phyrexian arena?
Ive seen both sides or the argument, whats yours?
EDIT i guess it was silly of me to not mention if you ultimate garruk you win
I placed Top 4 at a PTQ last week with this 75. List felt super tight, and I was very happy with Wildspeaker and Darkblast. Only changes I would make are cutting Obstinate Baloth for a Bow of Nylea and perhaps a Golgari Charm for a Grafdigger's Cage. I would play this list again in a heartbeat.
Why Bow of Nylea? What match up's is that strong against?
Also, what kind of Junk list was in the Top 8 with you?
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Bow is great against a lot of things.
Giving your dudes deathtouch means everything can trade and treetop (and oblit) only has to deal 1 dmg before the rest tramples over.
killing small flyers like fae or tokens is a huge boon, as is being able to kill blINKmoth nexuses.
+1/+1 counters gets treetop outta bolt range and makes courser a threat.
gaining 3 life a turn in a midrange deck is enough to stabilize against most decks in the format
I placed Top 4 at a PTQ last week with this 75. List felt super tight, and I was very happy with Wildspeaker and Darkblast. Only changes I would make are cutting Obstinate Baloth for a Bow of Nylea and perhaps a Golgari Charm for a Grafdigger's Cage. I would play this list again in a heartbeat.
Why Bow of Nylea? What match up's is that strong against?
Also, what kind of Junk list was in the Top 8 with you?
Well, it's something I'm only considering. I like that it's repeatable life gain I can put down on turn 3 that helps me in very aggressive matchups. I also like how it gives me even more game vs Affinity. I think it's good enough in the mirror if your plan is to cut all 7-8 of your discard spells, but if you plan to leave in Thoughtseize there are probably better cards.
Giving your dudes deathtouch means everything can trade and treetop (and oblit) only has to deal 1 dmg before the rest tramples over.
I'm really not a fan of Obliterator builds. Your mana is a mess if you try and jam 4 tec edge with a million urborgs to cast him, and if you cut tec edge you're severely nerfing the deck. He's a good clock, don't get me wrong but he's not worth what you lose. Play my list, give Garruk a go in the 4 slot and prepare to be impressed with what the guy can do. He doesn't look like much, but he always seems to give you what you need.
The big two decks are twin and pod, outside of hard casting kikijiki, Tec isn't relevant in these matchup.
there are literally decks that can't answer obliterator outside of an alpha strike, much like thrun against uwr.
what decks can't win against Tec edge? The manabase for obliterator is ridiculously smooth, I play the deck weekly and don't remember the last time I had to mulligan because of the lands in my opening hand. 4 Tec edge and 4 treetop are a lot less reliable than 4 mire and 4 treetop. The way you talk about it makes me wonder of you've even shuffled up the deck.
I'll play your deck next week, garruks and darkblasts, if you play mine. Fair?
Both decks have their merits, there really isn't a point in arguing superiority when its just a meta call.
The big two decks are twin and pod, outside of hard casting kikijiki, Tec isn't relevant in these matchup.
there are literally decks that can't answer obliterator outside of an alpha strike, much like thrun against uwr.
what decks can't win against Tec edge? The manabase for obliterator is ridiculously smooth, I play the deck weekly and don't remember the last time I had to mulligan because of the lands in my opening hand. 4 Tec edge and 4 treetop are a lot less reliable than 4 mire and 4 treetop. The way you talk about it makes me wonder of you've even shuffled up the deck.
I'll play your deck next week, garruks and darkblasts, if you play mine. Fair?
Both decks have their merits, there really isn't a point in arguing superiority when its just a meta call.
Tectonic Edge is useful against Melira Pod. Answering Gavony Township is important.
I agree that the tec edge doesn't shine against the big 3, UR twin/affinity/pod. (Hitting a green source might relevant if they are tarmotwin, and I guess hitting township isn't irrelevant). But the rest of field is where the tec edge is great. (UWR, scapeshift, ad nauseum, the mirror, Tron). My meta is infested with UWR/scapeshift/etc where tec edge is amazing. So I honestly haven't had a huge incentive to try out Obliterator. When do you feel Obliterator really shines?
The big two decks are twin and pod, outside of hard casting kikijiki, Tec isn't relevant in these matchup.
there are literally decks that can't answer obliterator outside of an alpha strike, much like thrun against uwr.
what decks can't win against Tec edge? The manabase for obliterator is ridiculously smooth, I play the deck weekly and don't remember the last time I had to mulligan because of the lands in my opening hand. 4 Tec edge and 4 treetop are a lot less reliable than 4 mire and 4 treetop. The way you talk about it makes me wonder of you've even shuffled up the deck.
I'll play your deck next week, garruks and darkblasts, if you play mine. Fair?
Both decks have their merits, there really isn't a point in arguing superiority when its just a meta call.
I've played the Pod matchup extensively, and I speak from experience when I say that Gavony Township wins MANY games. The ability to kill it is crucial in that matchup. I'm also very happy to have a much better matchup vs Tron variants, Scapeshift and UWR.
The only deck that has no real answer to it is Pod, and they can still dunk you in the sky. I know the manabase for Obliterator is smooth WITHOUT Tec Edge, I'm saying I do not remotely think that card is worth losing so much utility.
I will not be sleeving up Obliterators as I do not own them and they would be a poor choice for my meta. I am of the opinion that there are enough ways to bounce it, tap it, path it, pulse it, or Lily it, fly over it or just take 5. Perhaps in a Zoo heavy meta where the deck first debuted the card was the perfect late game threat. By no means am I saying I am a governing force on this matter, I am just giving my opinion and stating my issues that I have with the card.
So I've been trying out the Garruk Wildspeaker... And he has been amazing! I don't have to worry about tapping out on turn 4 for Thrun against twin and then dying and looking stupid, and the overrun sometimes just kills your opponent out of nowhere. It has been really nice to have a way to feel explosive, when usually I feel like all I can do is grind out and very slowly win. (Which isn't bad, but it felt really nice to just slam the Garruk and then just f'in kill 'em). And even in the grindy games like the mirror, just making beasts is really annoying to deal with.
Has anyone else been trying it? What are your thoughts?
I've been testing with Garruk, Wildspeaker as a 1-of.
And I am impressed, it synergizes well with Treetop Village, especially when you are stuck with 4 lands.
It allows you to still attack with 2 Treetop Villages.
So I've been trying out the Garruk Wildspeaker... And he has been amazing! I don't have to worry about tapping out on turn 4 for Thrun against twin and then dying and looking stupid, and the overrun sometimes just kills your opponent out of nowhere. It has been really nice to have a way to feel explosive, when usually I feel like all I can do is grind out and very slowly win. (Which isn't bad, but it felt really nice to just slam the Garruk and then just f'in kill 'em). And even in the grindy games like the mirror, just making beasts is really annoying to deal with.
Has anyone else been trying it? What are your thoughts?
I've been testing with Garruk, Wildspeaker as a 1-of.
And I am impressed, it synergizes well with Treetop Village, especially when you are stuck with 4 lands.
It allows you to still attack with 2 Treetop Villages.
It is pretty close to what we have been running, just -2 twilight mire, -3 courser, +2 marsh flats and +3 lingering souls (and the really good white sideboard cards, of course). He also mentions the Wildspeaker (wombo combo with the souls lol)
He also touches on pack rat and lifebane zombie. I haven't tried either. I imagine that if you want to do well agains pod, but still don't want to run red, then those are what you should look towards
Played 2 Chalice cause I was worried about random burn crap and Living End. Also played a Drown in Sorrow. Bow was good, brought it in a lot. Would cut second Chalice for Baloth I guess - I don't love the card personally but I don't really want a second Night of Souls' Betrayal either. By the way, that card is insane.
I cut Courser for 2 Fulminators in the main and I'm running a third Fulminator in the board. I might try the Mutavault version soon, but I'm not overly excited to lose Tec Edge - We'll see! Have to keep brewing and pushing the confines of the archetype. Mainboard Darkblasts and Garruks have continued to be MVPs in my meta, hope everyone is giving those two cards a shot!
R1 vs Infect - Win - 2-1
R2 vs Merfolk - Win - 2-0
R3 vs Geist Twin - Loss 1-2
R4 vs Living End - Win - 2-1
R5 vs UWR Control - Draw
R6 vs Junk - Win - 2-0
R7 vs Affinity - Loss - 1-2
I lost my win and in to top8 against affinity. It went to 3 games but I did not correctly assess the situation and played around too much on what could he "topdeck".
This caused me to play very defensively and I ended up prioritizing gaining life via Scooze instead of playing more goyfs. Well... Lesson Learned.
Notes:
- Should probably fit in the 4th Scooze somewhere in the 75.
- Coming from Jund, I didn't miss the Lightning Bolts that much but Treetop Village is a slow finisher. Compared to Raging Ravine obviously.
Tron is a hard Matchup for any rock deck. Our removals are outclassed by their threats.
Even for Jund who has access to Sowing Salt.
As a Tron player you should look to drop Karn/Wurmcoil as early as possible as Rock really has no 1 for 1 answer for that (except for Maelstrom Pulse for Karn, but he would have exiled a card anyway).
I forgot how many times I had to mulligan b/c of tec edge. With obliterator rock you almost never have to mulligan due to lands.
Having the tec edges and MD thrun is definitely a huge boon though against UWR. If your meta is infested with UWR Edge is the way to go.
Im a fan of garruk wildspeaker, I added him to the primer.
I gave the primer a bit of a facelift in general. I got the first post to the point where im happy with it. I still want to go back and edit sideboarding options. I ran thru matchups **very** quickly and hope to get back to refining them again soon.
NIN how did you feel about only having 2 Fulminator Mage in sideboard? Ive found in the games that I need them, I want them in multiples- if thats the case for you too- why not run 4 if not 3?
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The biggest strength of Garruk is his overrun allowing you to quickly end games which was not mentioned in the primer, Throst54.
Where's the addition for Darkblast?
Darkblast is in the sideboarding section.
While an amazing card, there are a number of matchups its just bad against. Ill throw one MD next week and see how it fares me- but I usually play it in SB and am fine with it there.
Against the BGx deck i would have sided out the 2 darkblast. It literally only hits bob, siding in golgari charm as a way to regen your dudes is good, and it can still kill opposing bobs.
What are you bringing chalice of the void in against?
Arguing that tec edge and manlands are integral parts of the deck, couldnt you play another courser in the SB rather than phyrexian arena?
Ive seen both sides or the argument, whats yours?
EDIT i guess it was silly of me to not mention if you ultimate garruk you win
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
Why Bow of Nylea? What match up's is that strong against?
Also, what kind of Junk list was in the Top 8 with you?
Giving your dudes deathtouch means everything can trade and treetop (and oblit) only has to deal 1 dmg before the rest tramples over.
killing small flyers like fae or tokens is a huge boon, as is being able to kill blINKmoth nexuses.
+1/+1 counters gets treetop outta bolt range and makes courser a threat.
gaining 3 life a turn in a midrange deck is enough to stabilize against most decks in the format
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
Well, it's something I'm only considering. I like that it's repeatable life gain I can put down on turn 3 that helps me in very aggressive matchups. I also like how it gives me even more game vs Affinity. I think it's good enough in the mirror if your plan is to cut all 7-8 of your discard spells, but if you plan to leave in Thoughtseize there are probably better cards.
I'm really not a fan of Obliterator builds. Your mana is a mess if you try and jam 4 tec edge with a million urborgs to cast him, and if you cut tec edge you're severely nerfing the deck. He's a good clock, don't get me wrong but he's not worth what you lose. Play my list, give Garruk a go in the 4 slot and prepare to be impressed with what the guy can do. He doesn't look like much, but he always seems to give you what you need.
there are literally decks that can't answer obliterator outside of an alpha strike, much like thrun against uwr.
what decks can't win against Tec edge? The manabase for obliterator is ridiculously smooth, I play the deck weekly and don't remember the last time I had to mulligan because of the lands in my opening hand. 4 Tec edge and 4 treetop are a lot less reliable than 4 mire and 4 treetop. The way you talk about it makes me wonder of you've even shuffled up the deck.
I'll play your deck next week, garruks and darkblasts, if you play mine. Fair?
Both decks have their merits, there really isn't a point in arguing superiority when its just a meta call.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
Tectonic Edge is useful against Melira Pod. Answering Gavony Township is important.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I've played the Pod matchup extensively, and I speak from experience when I say that Gavony Township wins MANY games. The ability to kill it is crucial in that matchup. I'm also very happy to have a much better matchup vs Tron variants, Scapeshift and UWR.
The only deck that has no real answer to it is Pod, and they can still dunk you in the sky. I know the manabase for Obliterator is smooth WITHOUT Tec Edge, I'm saying I do not remotely think that card is worth losing so much utility.
I will not be sleeving up Obliterators as I do not own them and they would be a poor choice for my meta. I am of the opinion that there are enough ways to bounce it, tap it, path it, pulse it, or Lily it, fly over it or just take 5. Perhaps in a Zoo heavy meta where the deck first debuted the card was the perfect late game threat. By no means am I saying I am a governing force on this matter, I am just giving my opinion and stating my issues that I have with the card.
Hope you guys are having a great day
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/budget/547849-budget-bg-obliterator-rock?page=2
sometimes they miss basics
thanks for the catch, ill edit it, assuming 2 swamp 1 forest
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
Has anyone else been trying it? What are your thoughts?
And I am impressed, it synergizes well with Treetop Village, especially when you are stuck with 4 lands.
It allows you to still attack with 2 Treetop Villages.
Sword of feast and famine FAIL responses
"How can we make a future if we don't try our hardest?"
-Monkey D. Luffy
Playing:
Modern:
BGR JUND RGB
Legacy:
URU/R Delver RU
You're welcome.
It is pretty close to what we have been running, just -2 twilight mire, -3 courser, +2 marsh flats and +3 lingering souls (and the really good white sideboard cards, of course). He also mentions the Wildspeaker (wombo combo with the souls lol)
He also touches on pack rat and lifebane zombie. I haven't tried either. I imagine that if you want to do well agains pod, but still don't want to run red, then those are what you should look towards
Played 2 Chalice cause I was worried about random burn crap and Living End. Also played a Drown in Sorrow. Bow was good, brought it in a lot. Would cut second Chalice for Baloth I guess - I don't love the card personally but I don't really want a second Night of Souls' Betrayal either. By the way, that card is insane.
I cut Courser for 2 Fulminators in the main and I'm running a third Fulminator in the board. I might try the Mutavault version soon, but I'm not overly excited to lose Tec Edge - We'll see! Have to keep brewing and pushing the confines of the archetype. Mainboard Darkblasts and Garruks have continued to be MVPs in my meta, hope everyone is giving those two cards a shot!
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Lingering Souls
2 Slaughter Pact
2 Dismember
1 Disfigure
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Twilight Mire
3 Tectonic Edge
1 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Obstinate Baloth
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Stony Silence
1 Damnation
1 Drown in Sorrow
1 Batterskull
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Golgari Charm
Matchups:
R1 vs Infect - Win - 2-1
R2 vs Merfolk - Win - 2-0
R3 vs Geist Twin - Loss 1-2
R4 vs Living End - Win - 2-1
R5 vs UWR Control - Draw
R6 vs Junk - Win - 2-0
R7 vs Affinity - Loss - 1-2
I lost my win and in to top8 against affinity. It went to 3 games but I did not correctly assess the situation and played around too much on what could he "topdeck".
This caused me to play very defensively and I ended up prioritizing gaining life via Scooze instead of playing more goyfs. Well... Lesson Learned.
Notes:
- Should probably fit in the 4th Scooze somewhere in the 75.
- Coming from Jund, I didn't miss the Lightning Bolts that much but Treetop Village is a slow finisher. Compared to Raging Ravine obviously.
Sword of feast and famine FAIL responses
"How can we make a future if we don't try our hardest?"
-Monkey D. Luffy
Playing:
Modern:
BGR JUND RGB
Legacy:
URU/R Delver RU
Even for Jund who has access to Sowing Salt.
As a Tron player you should look to drop Karn/Wurmcoil as early as possible as Rock really has no 1 for 1 answer for that (except for Maelstrom Pulse for Karn, but he would have exiled a card anyway).
Sword of feast and famine FAIL responses
"How can we make a future if we don't try our hardest?"
-Monkey D. Luffy
Playing:
Modern:
BGR JUND RGB
Legacy:
URU/R Delver RU