I've been playing a UR Twin variant with ONLY Kikis pre-ban (on purpose) which IMO is actually better than the normal one ever was (can't divulge it yet, more testing needed to perfect it)
I've been playing a UR Twin variant with ONLY Kikis pre-ban (on purpose) which IMO is actually better than the normal one ever was (can't divulge it yet, more testing needed to perfect it).
I've been playing a UR Twin variant with ONLY Kikis pre-ban (on purpose) which IMO is actually better than the normal one ever was (can't divulge it yet, more testing needed to perfect it)
You have our attention.
He does.
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Can't just say that and give everyone hope, then leave for the day.
That being said, I'm prepared to be surprised, but it feels like a gross over-exaggeration to me. If you told me "UR kiki combo is not a lot worse than playing with splinter twins" that's one thing, but saying this is better? Surprise me, I guess.
I cant figure out what to play anymore. Ive been trying a million different american decks but all it did was prove how dead control is in modern, theres way to many different things to answer in the format for american control to be good. Esper control has the same issue, you cant answer everything, and all those things your trying to answer are more efficient then what your using to answer them, that and theres no good counter. I even tried the rehshape blightsteel combo because the deck is UR and uses the twin shell, but its to easily answered and played around, and nobody falls for it twice. Im at a complete loss as to what to play right now. I might have to go back to affinity if I want to keep doing well in modern.
Any suggestions? Im looking for something good...
None of the other top decks interest me, I dont like tron because I dont like drool decks, Jund and junk are ok but are terrible right now, I have affinity built but that deck takes to much out of you to play, not a fan of burn ext. It seems theres really nothing for us twin players to convert over to that plays like twin but isnt some stricktly inferior version of the deck.
If you want to play a similar style blue-red tempo control, blue moon is always a deck.
If you dislike control, but like uwr, you can play jeskai delver (you can even play a bit more mid-rangey without delvers and do fine)
You could do similar things in grixis or temur.
Even just straight u-r value seems like it could be an ok deck, and if another card or two is printed for it, it could be good.
If you specifically liked the combo, you could play kiki-resto in r/w/u(kiki-control), r/w/b(mardu midrange/kiki), r/w/g(kiki chord)
Not in red, but u/b faeries plays somewhat similarly to twin (tempo-control style) and is possibly still strong in this meta.
I cant figure out what to play anymore. Ive been trying a million different american decks but all it did was prove how dead control is in modern, theres way to many different things to answer in the format for american control to be good. Esper control has the same issue, you cant answer everything, and all those things your trying to answer are more efficient then what your using to answer them, that and theres no good counter. I even tried the rehshape blightsteel combo because the deck is UR and uses the twin shell, but its to easily answered and played around, and nobody falls for it twice. Im at a complete loss as to what to play right now. I might have to go back to affinity if I want to keep doing well in modern.
Any suggestions? Im looking for something good...
None of the other top decks interest me, I dont like tron because I dont like drool decks, Jund and junk are ok but are terrible right now, I have affinity built but that deck takes to much out of you to play, not a fan of burn ext. It seems theres really nothing for us twin players to convert over to that plays like twin but isnt some stricktly inferior version of the deck.
I know exactly how you feel
I have a bunch of Jeskai pieces and tried it out, and while it's solid, it's very poor in this meta
RG Tron, I owned the deck for a short time in September, and I found it so boring to play. It's a goldfish deck that plays 8 boardwipes. There's rarely interesting lines of play, they're all super obvious and bland. Powerful deck
Burn is...well, I wouldn't call it brain-dead, the sequencing of it can be critical, but the lines of play aren't interesting
Jund and Junk are interactive enough that there's some interesting lines of play, even if they can be obvious
I own Affinity, and been playing it on MTGO. It really is mentally exhausting in how you have to interact to not interact. Great deck, but I'm reacting to the situation and what to sequence more than playing against my opponent.
I was really finding Twin a blast, my game-plan changed against every deck and every opponent, I sculpted my game plan depending on the opponent
I almost panic bought Scapeshift, but I honestly think it's a trap
I really hope the pro's come up with something for us ex Twin players
I really hope the pro's come up with something for us ex Twin players
Why the pros? Come up with it yourself man
Pros play for a living, or as a part-time job at least. They get a lot more reps with a deck than us common folk and get to the results much quicker than we would. Plus, they're pros for a reason.
I cant figure out what to play anymore. Ive been trying a million different american decks but all it did was prove how dead control is in modern, theres way to many different things to answer in the format for american control to be good. Esper control has the same issue, you cant answer everything, and all those things your trying to answer are more efficient then what your using to answer them, that and theres no good counter. I even tried the rehshape blightsteel combo because the deck is UR and uses the twin shell, but its to easily answered and played around, and nobody falls for it twice. Im at a complete loss as to what to play right now. I might have to go back to affinity if I want to keep doing well in modern.
Any suggestions? Im looking for something good...
None of the other top decks interest me, I dont like tron because I dont like drool decks, Jund and junk are ok but are terrible right now, I have affinity built but that deck takes to much out of you to play, not a fan of burn ext. It seems theres really nothing for us twin players to convert over to that plays like twin but isnt some stricktly inferior version of the deck.
The closest thing to what you are asking for is uwr with kiki. Instead of a fair tempo game you play a fair control game while the kiki jiki combo can help you close out games against the big mana decks before emrakul and eye of ugin become a problem. Uwr kiki is probably stronger against zoo than twin was if you pack some helix
For all that think control is dead, they're wrong. Did any counterspells get banned? Last I checked only Splinter Twin got banned. We still have all the components to what makes control good like Snapcaster Mage, Cryptic Command, Remand, Spell Snare, Blood Moon, Vendilion Clique, etc. What we have to do now is actually think for ourselves what is good. Yeah the pros are gonna come up with something possibly at the Pro Tour but it doesn't mean we can't experiment and find our own groove in the mean time. We're control players for the reason, so it's our divine right to stop others from playing their janky cards and combos but at the same time make sure we control the board to slam down our win condition. So for all that are worried control is dead, it is not, it just means now we have to get out of our comfort zone of what Splinter Twin did to us to where we didn't deviate and now allows us to brew some awesome new stuff.
If we accept the premiss "we can adapt our UR control deck to Kiki-Jikki", doesn't the white splash plan become immediatly superior to the straight UR tempo plan?
Thoughts: Exarch contributes so little to the game plan (combo piece that's pretty much it) compared to Restorstion Angel which can surprise block (and actually KILL STUFF), beatdown, value flicker snappies and stuff (and Wall of Omens and Blade Splicers if thats your cup of tea), while still being a flash combo piece.
Kiki also works better with these value dudes (wall, splicers, Pia and Kiran, etc) ...
TD;LR - Isnt UWR a strictly better option at this point?
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Three colors is worse against Burn and any Blood Moon decks. That's more of a local/PT meta call than anything so it's up to you. The W splash is quite powerful, though. Can't argue with that. Resto being bolt proof is a big win. Resto worse against Remand, though.
If someone were to add a 3rd color, white is definitely the strongest in comparison of adding black or green. It honestly depends on the play style. White give the deck a more tempo play style while U/R has access to run mainboard Blood Moon and got punished as badly while splashing a third color to the flow. Same goes for adding black in that regard. At this point it is definitely preference of the matter. I know if I was to splash a color it would be white since it gives the best answers to threats and utility.
Also, let's face it. You can't beat White's sideboarding power. White may be one of the weakest colors in Modern by itself, but as a support color used for utility, it can cripple a ton of other top decks in the format.
If we accept the premiss "we can adapt our UR control deck to Kiki-Jikki", doesn't the white splash plan become immediatly superior to the straight UR tempo plan?
Thoughts: Exarch contributes so little to the game plan (combo piece that's pretty much it) compared to Restorstion Angel which can surprise block (and actually KILL STUFF), beatdown, value flicker snappies and stuff (and Wall of Omens and Blade Splicers if thats your cup of tea), while still being a flash combo piece.
Kiki also works better with these value dudes (wall, splicers, Pia and Kiran, etc) ...
TD;LR - Isnt UWR a strictly better option at this point?
First of all I do believe a 3 color deck is better at this point if you want to play an interactive combo deck that is slower than twin. Since games last longer you need more power. Second blood moon is not all that good of a plan since with more power you can actually grind with midrange decks and blood moon is not that great against the 2 ramp decks that are left. The combo in kiki decks is mostly to end games against ramp decks before eye of ugin takes over so you do necessarily have to be that fast and just play uwr control while is actually pretty good against aggro if you run enough removal.
Rough draft of how I think a kiki control list shoild look going forward. You basically go hardcore bomb sgainst other fair decks with walkers plus boardwipes. Boardwipes are also decent against the eldrazi deck I know due to playing esper against them. Boardwipes are aldo good against midrange in genersl. You have 10 removal spells to ward off aggro along with 2 spell snares. 3 didpel in the board to give you tools to beat griselshoal and also cheap interaction for burn and infect matchups.
UR Blood Moon Kiki is for 100% better than UWR Kiki against Tron. Blood Moon can single handedly win the game against Tron, and if not, give you a few turns to get you closer to the combo without worrying about Ulamog.
I also think it is a personal preference or a meta call to play UR vs UWR. I like Blue Moon deck but it is lacking a good win-con and Blood Moon against certain decks, while good in G1, is a liability in G2 (players can just fetch basics and not care). On the other hand, I've played for a long time with UWR Control and I know how sad of a deck it is when you draw counters against aggro and removal against Tron. I don't want to go back to those frustrating time so I am sure that if one wants to play UR, he needs to play a really good win-con (hopefully winning on the spot).
The question is against what type of deck you want to have a better game. UR gives you a better game against Tron and possibly Eldrazi, but UWR gives you better game against the rest of field.
You are better off playing actual land destruction like crumble to dust than blood against tron with the only situation that makes moon better is the turn 4 ulamog. That situation demands a turn 3 moon. Otherwise direct just land destruction is better agsinst tron. As for Eldrazi decks land destruction of all forms are just mediocre against them. The thing that would give uwr the edge there are the paths and the board wipes which from my experiences playing pure control are actually really good against them. Eldrazi decks run a lot of removal and act like a jund deck with tron like threats so outgrinding to a degree is something good to do which path, snap, cryptic, rev, and boardeipes go a long way in foing.
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You have our attention.
Imperial Recruiter isn't legal in Modern. /troll
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OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
That being said, I'm prepared to be surprised, but it feels like a gross over-exaggeration to me. If you told me "UR kiki combo is not a lot worse than playing with splinter twins" that's one thing, but saying this is better? Surprise me, I guess.
Any suggestions? Im looking for something good...
None of the other top decks interest me, I dont like tron because I dont like drool decks, Jund and junk are ok but are terrible right now, I have affinity built but that deck takes to much out of you to play, not a fan of burn ext. It seems theres really nothing for us twin players to convert over to that plays like twin but isnt some stricktly inferior version of the deck.
We will rebuild.
If you dislike control, but like uwr, you can play jeskai delver (you can even play a bit more mid-rangey without delvers and do fine)
You could do similar things in grixis or temur.
Even just straight u-r value seems like it could be an ok deck, and if another card or two is printed for it, it could be good.
If you specifically liked the combo, you could play kiki-resto in r/w/u(kiki-control), r/w/b(mardu midrange/kiki), r/w/g(kiki chord)
Not in red, but u/b faeries plays somewhat similarly to twin (tempo-control style) and is possibly still strong in this meta.
I know exactly how you feel
I have a bunch of Jeskai pieces and tried it out, and while it's solid, it's very poor in this meta
RG Tron, I owned the deck for a short time in September, and I found it so boring to play. It's a goldfish deck that plays 8 boardwipes. There's rarely interesting lines of play, they're all super obvious and bland. Powerful deck
Burn is...well, I wouldn't call it brain-dead, the sequencing of it can be critical, but the lines of play aren't interesting
Jund and Junk are interactive enough that there's some interesting lines of play, even if they can be obvious
I own Affinity, and been playing it on MTGO. It really is mentally exhausting in how you have to interact to not interact. Great deck, but I'm reacting to the situation and what to sequence more than playing against my opponent.
I was really finding Twin a blast, my game-plan changed against every deck and every opponent, I sculpted my game plan depending on the opponent
I almost panic bought Scapeshift, but I honestly think it's a trap
I really hope the pro's come up with something for us ex Twin players
Why the pros? Come up with it yourself man
Pros play for a living, or as a part-time job at least. They get a lot more reps with a deck than us common folk and get to the results much quicker than we would. Plus, they're pros for a reason.
The closest thing to what you are asking for is uwr with kiki. Instead of a fair tempo game you play a fair control game while the kiki jiki combo can help you close out games against the big mana decks before emrakul and eye of ugin become a problem. Uwr kiki is probably stronger against zoo than twin was if you pack some helix
UR Kiki Moon vs RG Tron ( 2-1 )
UR Kiki Moon vs Affinity ( 2-0 )
UR Kiki Moon vs Jund ( 1-2 )
UR Kiki Moon vs Infect ( 2-0 )
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StaffThoughts: Exarch contributes so little to the game plan (combo piece that's pretty much it) compared to Restorstion Angel which can surprise block (and actually KILL STUFF), beatdown, value flicker snappies and stuff (and Wall of Omens and Blade Splicers if thats your cup of tea), while still being a flash combo piece.
Kiki also works better with these value dudes (wall, splicers, Pia and Kiran, etc) ...
TD;LR - Isnt UWR a strictly better option at this point?
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
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StaffFirst of all I do believe a 3 color deck is better at this point if you want to play an interactive combo deck that is slower than twin. Since games last longer you need more power. Second blood moon is not all that good of a plan since with more power you can actually grind with midrange decks and blood moon is not that great against the 2 ramp decks that are left. The combo in kiki decks is mostly to end games against ramp decks before eye of ugin takes over so you do necessarily have to be that fast and just play uwr control while is actually pretty good against aggro if you run enough removal.
3 Wall of Omens
3 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Restoration Angel
2 Snapcaster Mage
Spells:
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
2 Remand
2 Logic Knot
2 Spell Snare
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Lightning Helix
2 Wrath of God
2 Stony Silence
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Negate
1 Celestial Purge
2 Crumble to Dudt
3 Dispel
Rough draft of how I think a kiki control list shoild look going forward. You basically go hardcore bomb sgainst other fair decks with walkers plus boardwipes. Boardwipes are also decent against the eldrazi deck I know due to playing esper against them. Boardwipes are aldo good against midrange in genersl. You have 10 removal spells to ward off aggro along with 2 spell snares. 3 didpel in the board to give you tools to beat griselshoal and also cheap interaction for burn and infect matchups.
You are better off playing actual land destruction like crumble to dust than blood against tron with the only situation that makes moon better is the turn 4 ulamog. That situation demands a turn 3 moon. Otherwise direct just land destruction is better agsinst tron. As for Eldrazi decks land destruction of all forms are just mediocre against them. The thing that would give uwr the edge there are the paths and the board wipes which from my experiences playing pure control are actually really good against them. Eldrazi decks run a lot of removal and act like a jund deck with tron like threats so outgrinding to a degree is something good to do which path, snap, cryptic, rev, and boardeipes go a long way in foing.