Wow, that was indeed a surprising announcement. I know a lot of you are hating us right now/saying we'll start appearing everywhere, but condolences from the BW Eldrazi thread! I never got to build Twin, but always loved the look of the deck and wanted to build it later on.
Well I have decided what to do with my twin cards. I will add them into R/U blue moon, but shave off a snappy and fetch into Grxis Delver.
I am pretty sure that there will be a tiny drop off in certain staples like snappy, but nothing drastic. Kiki will go up,not down, for those wishing to continue or play chord-kiki. R/U-x control and aggro shells will work forever, so no need to dump those Snappies.
I think the reason Twin got banned was the fact that most of Modern lacks cheap maindeckable cards to deal with Exarch, blue naturally can get perfect information, and R/U had reasonable methods for filtering meaning that few Twin players ended up punished for playing the combo, unlike most combo decks. Plan B was as good as plan A. If there was a card that if resolved ruined the whole red/blue shell the deck may not have hit the 10%-15% levels to get Wizard's ban-fingers itchy. Other top tier decks like Tron can be hurt a bit by their natural inconsistency and by the fact that you can maindeck Ghost Quarters in most decks. They also have some predator decks- hatebear matchups are not that nice for example. Affinity is still a game one deck- Stony Silence, Shatterstorm, Kataki etc. all exist to hurt it. No equivalent existed for Twin. I would have rather they print a 3 cc uncounterable boil than they banned the deck, but their instance on designing for a weak Standard means we get left with what we have in Modern. Nobody preyed on twin, and they were not going to print uncounterables or 1cc cards to hurt it, leaving us with discard, Skite, Abrupt Decay, Slaughter Pact and Rending Volley, plus some other board cards like Purge. I always thought Volley was a signal they were worried.
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Well I have decided what to do with my twin cards. I will add them into R/U blue moon, but shave off a snappy and fetch into Grxis Delver.
I am pretty sure that there will be a tiny drop off in certain staples like snappy, but nothing drastic. Kiki will go up,not down, for those wishing to continue or play chord-kiki. R/U-x control and aggro shells will work forever, so no need to dump those Snappies.
I think the reason Twin got banned was the fact that most of Modern lacks cheap maindeckable cards to deal with Exarch, blue naturally can get perfect information, and R/U had reasonable methods for filtering meaning that few Twin players ended up punished for playing the combo, unlike most combo decks. Plan B was as good as plan A. If there was a card that if resolved ruined the whole red/blue shell the deck may not have hit the 10%-15% levels to get Wizard's ban-fingers itchy. Other top tier decks like Tron can be hurt a bit by their natural inconsistency and by the fact that you can maindeck Ghost Quarters in most decks. They also have some predator decks- hatebear matchups are not that nice for example. Affinity is still a game one deck- Stony Silence, Shatterstorm, Kataki etc. all exist to hurt it. No equivalent existed for Twin. I would have rather they print a 3 cc uncounterable boil than they banned the deck, but their instance on designing for a weak Standard means we get left with what we have in Modern. Nobody preyed on twin, and they were not going to print uncounterables or 1cc cards to hurt it, leaving us with discard, Skite, Abrupt Decay, Slaughter Pact and Rending Volley, plus some other board cards like Purge. I always thought Volley was a signal they were worried.
Since when is Tron inconsistent? It's probably the most consistent deck, and with the best topdeck in the format. They can search lands to assemble tron, they can search for their threats with eye or stirrings and they draw a lot. By no means Tron is inconsistent lol
Regarding Twin ban, i guess it was a forced rotation in modern, and for me an huge error from wizards. I started playing modern because i could play with my deck for a long long time. What this ban showed us is, no matter if your deck fulfills all of the format requirements (turn 4 rule, etc), it can still be banned, just because they want to sell the new stuff. In this case, they ban the natural predator of eldrazi decks. There isn't a good reason to ban twin (the deck wasn't OP, the shell was the same since the beginning of modern, and the results were good, but not oppressive) but to force players to buy new stuff to get eldrazi decks.
The worst thing is, since innistrad, they don't give any good blue cards (they gave sphinx's revelation but it's not "completely blue", and DTT, that got banned after 3 months). So right now, Modern don't have a blue deck (the normal blue control decks, with counterspells, not talking about the aggro merfolks), nor the cards to create a good one. So, this is it for me, i'll play HS for a while, until they print something useful for a blue deck to arise. Until then, i won't spend any money in magic, i'm tired of this stupid decisions.
Regarding Twin ban, i guess it was a forced rotation in modern, and for me an huge error from wizards. I started playing modern because i could play with my deck for a long long time. What this ban showed us is, no matter if your deck fulfills all of the format requirements (turn 4 rule, etc), it can still be banned, just because they want to sell the new stuff. In this case, they ban the natural predator of eldrazi decks. There isn't a good reason to ban twin (the deck wasn't OP, the shell was the same since the beginning of modern, and the results were good, but not oppressive) but to force players to buy new stuff to get eldrazi decks.
The worst thing is, since innistrad, they don't give any good blue cards (they gave sphinx's revelation but it's not "completely blue", and DTT, that got banned after 3 months). So right now, Modern don't have a blue deck (the normal blue control decks, with counterspells, not talking about the aggro merfolks), nor the cards to create a good one. So, this is it for me, i'll play HS for a while, until they print something useful for a blue deck to arise. Until then, i won't spend any money in magic, i'm tired of this stupid decisions.
well said
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Modern
Looking to buy into Death's Shadow for Modern
So I'm not really a twin player, but I've faced it many a time and I was wondering if maybe you could switch to something like a sultai combo type of thing with Birds to ramp, Kiki to combo,and blue for control until the combo. Maybe even Simian Spirit Guides to aid the combo. I'm not sure, but the core of the deck is so strong that I have no doubt that it will evolve into something great again.
I'm no Twin Player, but playing against it really improved my skills as a player. I'll miss those days when I'm fighting for that "one last turn I lose or I win" against Twin.
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Modern Decks:WRGThe Colors of FireGRW || CUBRAge of Ultron (Affinity - Under Construction)RBUC
So I'm not really a twin player, but I've faced it many a time and I was wondering if maybe you could switch to something like a sultai combo type of thing with Birds to ramp, Kiki to combo,and blue for control until the combo. Maybe even Simian Spirit Guides to aid the combo. I'm not sure, but the core of the deck is so strong that I have no doubt that it will evolve into something great again.
Aaaand... Splinter Twin is dead. For at least three months minimum anyways. Twin players break out those kiki-jikis!
Not a chance. Comes down a turn later and requires 3 red so you'd need to play more lands + red lands to actually hit 5 lands by turn 5. Also every removal spell under the sun hits him whereas at least exarch could get around bolt.
Also the mere fact that you were afraid to tap out on turn 3 to twin played a lot into the hands of twin players who could just keep mana open and go for the beatdown plan.
I wanted to stop by and offer my sympathies and condolences. I appreciate the difficulty of the position many of you are in - I was a Pod pilot when that was banned last year. Modern was destabilized by the pod banning, and will only become more unstable after this banning. It's not a good direction for the format to go.
In any case, I hope this banning isn't too big a financial loss for you folks. Good luck!
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Current Decks RUG Canadian Threshold RUG BRG Jund BRG GRW Marath, Will of the Wild GRW
I find it rather odd in that even though the major consensus on here from former twin players is that Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker will not cut it for the Splinter Twin replacement but the price spike of Kiki Jiki itself has more than doubles in price within the past couple of days since the announcement.
How many of Twin players on here are at least going to try Kiki Jiki to see if it is even worth playing still? Personally speaking I get that a turn late combo does hurt, more than I would like to admit but still being able to pull off the combo is still pretty good. If anything on turn 4, one could flash in Deceiver Exarch and potentially have mana available for a counter spell to make sure it sticks for turn 5 Kiki slam and win. I dunno that's just one idea I have. What are some ideas from fellow Twin players?
I find it rather odd in that even though the major consensus on here from former twin players is that Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker will not cut it for the Splinter Twin replacement but the price spike of Kiki Jiki itself has more than doubles in price within the past couple of days since the announcement.
How many of Twin players on here are at least going to try Kiki Jiki to see if it is even worth playing still? Personally speaking I get that a turn late combo does hurt, more than I would like to admit but still being able to pull off the combo is still pretty good. If anything on turn 4, one could flash in Deceiver Exarch and potentially have mana available for a counter spell to make sure it sticks for turn 5 Kiki slam and win. I dunno that's just one idea I have. What are some ideas from fellow Twin players?
It's not just the extra turn, it's one less mana to use for protection, it's one more red mana you need to get, and it dies to more creature removal (namely Bolt) that doesn't hit Exarch. It MIGHT be playable, but I can't imagine it would be nearly as good.
Why not play Spellskite by 2 or 3 to protect Kiki and add 4 copies of Simian Spirit to continue to cast the combo turn 4 ?
Or other mana accelerators like Desperate Ritual & co ?
Why not play Spellskite by 2 or 3 to protect Kiki and add 4 copies of Simian Spirit to continue to cast the combo turn 4 ?
Or other mana accelerators like Desperate Ritual & co ?
As a relatively new player for the UR twin deck, I still don't agree with this recent announcement. I've never been satisfied with the consistency of the deck to combo out whenever I played it, and sideboarding was really a chore when you're trying to go on the control (keranos) path.
I think they should have at least waited for another pro-tour before banning the card. The influx of Eldrazi cards coming from OGW is already sure to shake-up the format. This really wasn't necessary at all. All my UR cards went back to my binders, and I'm probably going back to Abzan, or Affinity.
I find it rather odd in that even though the major consensus on here from former twin players is that Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker will not cut it for the Splinter Twin replacement but the price spike of Kiki Jiki itself has more than doubles in price within the past couple of days since the announcement.
How many of Twin players on here are at least going to try Kiki Jiki to see if it is even worth playing still? Personally speaking I get that a turn late combo does hurt, more than I would like to admit but still being able to pull off the combo is still pretty good. If anything on turn 4, one could flash in Deceiver Exarch and potentially have mana available for a counter spell to make sure it sticks for turn 5 Kiki slam and win. I dunno that's just one idea I have. What are some ideas from fellow Twin players?
Red Ritual and Jikki, go off on turn 4. There ya go. Problem solved.
I find it rather odd in that even though the major consensus on here from former twin players is that Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker will not cut it for the Splinter Twin replacement but the price spike of Kiki Jiki itself has more than doubles in price within the past couple of days since the announcement.
How many of Twin players on here are at least going to try Kiki Jiki to see if it is even worth playing still? Personally speaking I get that a turn late combo does hurt, more than I would like to admit but still being able to pull off the combo is still pretty good. If anything on turn 4, one could flash in Deceiver Exarch and potentially have mana available for a counter spell to make sure it sticks for turn 5 Kiki slam and win. I dunno that's just one idea I have. What are some ideas from fellow Twin players?
Red Ritual and Jikki, go off on turn 4. There ya go. Problem solved.
The price jump is based all on speculation. It doesn't mean everyone is just going to replace their Twins with Kiki's. It means people jumped early just incase b/c they knew the price would increase. There are also other decks like Kiki Control, which is what I'm looking into at the moment, that are a viable option.
That means removing other key cards from the deck. Its basically closer to an all in combo deck at that point. UR Twin was great b/c it was a control deck with a combo finish. Adding Rituals, Mizzium Skin etc doesn't seem appealing to me. The 3R cost will also hinder the utility lands you can run. E.g. you could get away with up to 3 utility lands in UR. Kiki would probably reduce that to 1 or 2. The ritual isn't a horrible idea, but its still not the same deck. Kiki is also susceptible to Kommand and random cards like Disfigure. If one were to add rituals it could look like this.
WB Eldrazi Processors BW
Legacy:
WUBRGLandless DredgeGRBUW
EDH:
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothGB
WUBrago, King Eternal (Budget!)UW
I am pretty sure that there will be a tiny drop off in certain staples like snappy, but nothing drastic. Kiki will go up,not down, for those wishing to continue or play chord-kiki. R/U-x control and aggro shells will work forever, so no need to dump those Snappies.
I think the reason Twin got banned was the fact that most of Modern lacks cheap maindeckable cards to deal with Exarch, blue naturally can get perfect information, and R/U had reasonable methods for filtering meaning that few Twin players ended up punished for playing the combo, unlike most combo decks. Plan B was as good as plan A. If there was a card that if resolved ruined the whole red/blue shell the deck may not have hit the 10%-15% levels to get Wizard's ban-fingers itchy. Other top tier decks like Tron can be hurt a bit by their natural inconsistency and by the fact that you can maindeck Ghost Quarters in most decks. They also have some predator decks- hatebear matchups are not that nice for example. Affinity is still a game one deck- Stony Silence, Shatterstorm, Kataki etc. all exist to hurt it. No equivalent existed for Twin. I would have rather they print a 3 cc uncounterable boil than they banned the deck, but their instance on designing for a weak Standard means we get left with what we have in Modern. Nobody preyed on twin, and they were not going to print uncounterables or 1cc cards to hurt it, leaving us with discard, Skite, Abrupt Decay, Slaughter Pact and Rending Volley, plus some other board cards like Purge. I always thought Volley was a signal they were worried.
Since when is Tron inconsistent? It's probably the most consistent deck, and with the best topdeck in the format. They can search lands to assemble tron, they can search for their threats with eye or stirrings and they draw a lot. By no means Tron is inconsistent lol
Regarding Twin ban, i guess it was a forced rotation in modern, and for me an huge error from wizards. I started playing modern because i could play with my deck for a long long time. What this ban showed us is, no matter if your deck fulfills all of the format requirements (turn 4 rule, etc), it can still be banned, just because they want to sell the new stuff. In this case, they ban the natural predator of eldrazi decks. There isn't a good reason to ban twin (the deck wasn't OP, the shell was the same since the beginning of modern, and the results were good, but not oppressive) but to force players to buy new stuff to get eldrazi decks.
The worst thing is, since innistrad, they don't give any good blue cards (they gave sphinx's revelation but it's not "completely blue", and DTT, that got banned after 3 months). So right now, Modern don't have a blue deck (the normal blue control decks, with counterspells, not talking about the aggro merfolks), nor the cards to create a good one. So, this is it for me, i'll play HS for a while, until they print something useful for a blue deck to arise. Until then, i won't spend any money in magic, i'm tired of this stupid decisions.
UR TwinLegacy
UWR Miracleswell said
Looking to buy into Death's Shadow for Modern
Legacy
Looking to buy into Lands for Legacy
BRG Living End
G Elves
UB Zombie Hunt
BRG Living End
G Elves
UB Zombie Hunt
At that point you might as well play scapeshift.
Not a chance. Comes down a turn later and requires 3 red so you'd need to play more lands + red lands to actually hit 5 lands by turn 5. Also every removal spell under the sun hits him whereas at least exarch could get around bolt.
Also the mere fact that you were afraid to tap out on turn 3 to twin played a lot into the hands of twin players who could just keep mana open and go for the beatdown plan.
I wanted to stop by and offer my sympathies and condolences. I appreciate the difficulty of the position many of you are in - I was a Pod pilot when that was banned last year. Modern was destabilized by the pod banning, and will only become more unstable after this banning. It's not a good direction for the format to go.
In any case, I hope this banning isn't too big a financial loss for you folks. Good luck!
RUG Canadian Threshold RUG
BRG Jund BRG
GRW Marath, Will of the Wild GRW
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StaffHow many of Twin players on here are at least going to try Kiki Jiki to see if it is even worth playing still? Personally speaking I get that a turn late combo does hurt, more than I would like to admit but still being able to pull off the combo is still pretty good. If anything on turn 4, one could flash in Deceiver Exarch and potentially have mana available for a counter spell to make sure it sticks for turn 5 Kiki slam and win. I dunno that's just one idea I have. What are some ideas from fellow Twin players?
It's not just the extra turn, it's one less mana to use for protection, it's one more red mana you need to get, and it dies to more creature removal (namely Bolt) that doesn't hit Exarch. It MIGHT be playable, but I can't imagine it would be nearly as good.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Or other mana accelerators like Desperate Ritual & co ?
It's just an idea to find some solutions.
Gus
Or other mana accelerators like Desperate Ritual & co ?
It's just an idea to find some solutions.
Gus
I think they should have at least waited for another pro-tour before banning the card. The influx of Eldrazi cards coming from OGW is already sure to shake-up the format. This really wasn't necessary at all. All my UR cards went back to my binders, and I'm probably going back to Abzan, or Affinity.
Red Ritual and Jikki, go off on turn 4. There ya go. Problem solved.
The price jump is based all on speculation. It doesn't mean everyone is just going to replace their Twins with Kiki's. It means people jumped early just incase b/c they knew the price would increase. There are also other decks like Kiki Control, which is what I'm looking into at the moment, that are a viable option.
That means removing other key cards from the deck. Its basically closer to an all in combo deck at that point. UR Twin was great b/c it was a control deck with a combo finish. Adding Rituals, Mizzium Skin etc doesn't seem appealing to me. The 3R cost will also hinder the utility lands you can run. E.g. you could get away with up to 3 utility lands in UR. Kiki would probably reduce that to 1 or 2. The ritual isn't a horrible idea, but its still not the same deck. Kiki is also susceptible to Kommand and random cards like Disfigure. If one were to add rituals it could look like this.
4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2 Pestermite
Combo enablers/protectors
2 Pyretic Ritual
2 Dispel
2 Spell Snare
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
1 Harvest Pyre
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
4 Serum Visions
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Ghost Quarter
5 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
DnT! I'm a power-load
DnT! Watch me Explode
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
I think that UR has BLOOD MOON + combo ( kiki + deceiver ) + control ( jace, keranos ), it is very powerful