So, just went 2-2. Hooting Mandrills over Monastery Swiftspear was relevant and cost me 2 games, so I'm going back to 3 Swiftspear main. I feel like Kiln Fiend is a sideboard card but where is he best? maybe he can help in the Affinity matchup and versus Spellskite, as he pumps anyway.
Fiend would work great if your opponent is going to drop an early wall of omens as well. Doesn't happen often though, great against skite. A single copy or even 2 is definitely fun to play with because he gets MASSIVE! Haven't worked out if he is 'gimicky' or not. I don't think he's good in a specific matchup though. Just something that's really easy to get big on turn 3 when you are going for the kill.
Man, I am really embarrassed about my rd 4 loss. The client had lag issues, so I restarted, and it proceeded me to my next phase. I had swiftspear in play and battle rage, become immense in hand with three mana and plenty of cards in grave. No problem, I thought, next turn, cause I had one left. Lag issues continued, and I got spooked. I did every thing sorcery speed, before attacks. He was at 17 with untapped memnite x2 and ornithopter in play. I attacked for 20, so he lived to kill me. It is sad because it is a mistake that I would never make in real life or even during remotely optimal online conditions, but I guess I can take heart knowing that he probably would not have blocked with everyone, and I would be 3-1.
Edit- vismal, the number of shoals, mandrills, and become immense can't be right
Drinkard - since you're testing much more than me, can you help!
I've got 4 become immense (obviously), and 1 mandrils main. Is the mandrills poor in the main? I have 2 more in the board, with 4 shoals. Are those numbers right? When you board in the 2 extra mandrils, do any number of become immense come out, or not?
I've gone up to 3 swiftspears and 1 mandrils at the minute, just to give extra reach (in place of 1 bolt). I've also added the 1-of boros charm in place of another bolt, with 2 bolts in the side.
What's you list look like at the minute drinkard?
I mean, I have played 5 dailies and some 8-mans, but I don't want to sound like this thread's authority. Other players are testing configurations and trying out new cards, and I'm not really. I play Nourishing Shoal with 8 6-cc green cards for what it's worth. I haven't crunched numbers or tried anything else. If you have 3 Swiftspears, 1 Mandrills, then you've cut something else from the list I'm playing.
I have three things I want to try. Here is the deck I've won dailies with:
After frustrations in 3 opening hands with Hooting Mandrills and no other creatures, I want to go back to the 3 Monastery Swiftspear main. I know that when I do, though, I'll get Swiftspear Inquisitioned by Abzan and get mad.
Blood Moon has been dropped on me a lot, and I may go to 12 fetches that get Forest and a basic Forest.
I also may drop 4 Lightning Bolt for 4 Boros Charm.
When I side in Nourishing Shoal, I play all 8 6cc green cards. If I am siding in Hooting Mandrills and no Shoals, I will probably bring out 1-2 Become Immense. When I do this, I think I will appreciate the Boros Charms because they are additional sources of damage. Plus all of their modes are so relevant.
Tried Vexing Devil in place of the Bolts last night... It was neat! Got two Devils in my opening hand, my opponent takes 4 on turn one and sends the Devil to the bin (he was probably reading Burn at this point). Takes 4 on turn two and then... I show him what's up Gonna proper test in an 8-man / Daily tonight.
Vexing Devil was in the original Super Crazy Zoo lists before Become Immense and Temur Battle Rage. He should be good. In some bizarre corner cases, you could get Wild Nacatl double strike and trample in response to the Vexing Devil trigger.
I am switching the manabase to accommodate 4 Boros Charm. We have to have sources that provide R and W separately, and we want 2 different combinations of all 4 colors. So the 4 shocks are now
Godless Shrine
Stomping Ground
Blood Crypt
Temple Garden
The priority is Blood Crypt and Temple Garden because I find that having G and B separated smooths out turn 2.
So the fetches need to get combinations of Black or Red (not both) with white or green (not both). No more Windswept Heath and Bloodstained Mire.
B+W - Marsh Flats
B+G - Verdant Catacombs
R+W - Arid Mesa
R+G - Wooded Foothills
are our four fetches to work with. Whatever 13 suit you and your budget work best.
Again, this is all to try Boros Charm. If I decide to run a basic forest, then my lands will change again.
I've seen The_Architect playing Suicide Zoo a lot in dailies that I was in. He got a 4-0 in the past week, and it was finally published.
Command fits better with the original mana-base than Boros Charm. The original deck aims to get R from one land and G from another to play Become Immense and Temur Battle Rage, so it doesn't include Stomping Ground.
I love Boros Charm but I didn't like Stomping Ground, so I dropped Boros Charm because it requires Stomping Ground.
If I were to play anything other than the list I've cashed dailies in, I am currently experimenting with the cards Simian Spirit Guide, Assault Strobe, and more creatures maindeck over the 4 Lightning Bolt. In particular, I like dropping the 4 Bolt for 2 Hooting Mandrills and 2 Assault Strobe. I've increased turn 2 kills with Assault Strobe, but they are certainly high variance.
Well, choosing a deck is a function of percentages.
I really, really like my win % against Twin. I'm undefeated against it in ranked play.
I'm 50-50 against Burn (although I don't think this would be representative in a larger sample)
50-50 against Affinity
75-25 against Abzan
Undefeated against Delver variants
Totally defeated against Bloom Titan
Other decks I've beaten include Bogles, RG Tron, Blue Tron, etc.
I've lost to Death and Taxes, Skred Red, Makeshift, and I haven't played Zoo or Merfolk, strangely.
It's hard to shore up every match. You have a linear deck that can't afford to sacrifice consistency of an early win for consistency against the field.
This is basically the original list with no lightning bolts. Instead I went with the full 4 monastery swiftspear and two kiln fiend. I have had a lot of game 3 wins with the fiend but didn't draw him at all today so no real testing.
Infect 2-0 on the draw
He keeps a 1 lander and never gets a second despite two gitaxian probes. He scoops on his turn 4. I would have killed him my turn 4. I never saw an infect creature. I saw a vines of vastwood off a bauble and a forest and nothing else. I was thinking mono G because I've faced that a lot in tournament practice so I don't sideboard anything. Game two he sets up for a turn 4 kill, I win on turn 3 with 2 Monastery Swiftspears, one death's shadow, a mutagenic growth (putting me at 8 life) and a become immense.
Twin 2-1 on the draw
Game 1 he cannot find his combo. He ends up playing his deceiver exarch on my turn 3 to tap down my swiftspear and blocks my 3/3 wild nacatl. Temur battle rage and become immense on the cat FTW. I side in 4 toughtseize and side out 2 street wraith a swiftspear and the hooting mandrills. I keep a hand with probe, 2 baubles, death's shadow, become immense, and 2 lands. I draw mostly land. He has 3 cards in hand, roast, electrolyze, and the card he just drew. I drop my death's shadow knowing I can fetch and shock my way to safety from his removal. He plays cryptic command and counters me. He wins through beatdown from deciever and pestermite as I do not draw another creature. Game 3 he keeps a 1 land hand with no serum visions and I win turn 3 when he has nothing but an island on the board.
Ad Nauseam on the draw 1-2
Turn 3 I had a swiftspear, a become immense, and a temur battlerage. Unfortunately I only had 3 cards in the yard. I have 1 fetch land but also the two lands it can fetch for in my hand. So if I play the shock land, I can't become immense/temur battlerage and if I play the fetch, I cant find a 3rd land. He wins turn 4.
Game two I board in 4 thoughtseize, board out 2 wraith, 1 mandrill, 1 lynx. I thoughtseize him turn 2 and take his ad nauseam. I win turn 3.
Game 3 I thoughtseize him turn 2. He has 3 cards, 2 ad nauseam and an angel's grace so I take the grace. My turn 3 I have a death's shadow on the board, a become immense, and a battle rage in hand. I cannot find the 3rd land to go off. I get him down to 7 so next turn I don't need the combo, just one piece or the other. He has 2 lotus blooms resolve, plays 2 cantrips, then drops a phyrexian unlife and ad naseum. I lost both games 1 and 3 due to mana issues which is highly unusual for this deck.
Round 4 Grixis Delver (I think though I never saw a delver). On the play.
Not much to say here. Game 1 I combo off death's shadow and win turn 3. Game 2 he thinks he has me beat with a turn 3 blood moon and a young pyromancer on the board. I have a 2/2 wild nacatl and a swiftspear. I know the moment he tapped out to play the moon that I've won. I play two mutagenic growths on my swiftspear and tap my two mountains for temur battle rage. That was that.
I got lucky a couple times that my opponents got mana screwed but I felt I had a strong chance to win those games anyways. I didn't miss the lightning bolts at all. Having the extra creatures feels better to me. I'm still not sold on Steppe Lynx. I don't know if it wants to be something else, or maybe reduced to a 2 or 3 of. If so, what to put in it's place? I tried out goblin guide but he doesn't interact well with the rest of the deck. A pair of Simian spirit guides, or maybe moving 2 thoughtseize to the mainboard. Not sure yet. I wish I'd have seen a kiln fiend but I'm pretty comfortable keeping them as a two of for now. I can't wait to play this deck on paper. It's built I just need the right day off to go to a tournament. I am eager to hear how people do with boros charm. I don't have enough Zendikar fetches to test it (on paper or mtgo) so I'll be sticking with the original land base until at least return to Zendikar.
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I like the extra creatures over Boros Charms after testing both.
Ad Nauseam is tough. The moment when you knew you had Twin beat never exists against Ad Nauseam because of pacts and Angel's Grace. Also post side they have a Fog effect or two (Darkness and Holy Light or whatever).
What's everyone's general consensus on Tasigur and Hooting Mandrills?
I think the general consensus was that the trample from mandrills was preferred to the 1 extra toughness you get with Tasigur as we'd almost never use Tasigur's other ability.
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We actually got a paper result stateside this weekend!
-4 Mishra's Bauble
+1 Monastery Swiftspear
+3 Titan's Strength http://www.mtggoldfish.com/tournament/17495
He keeps the land count the same with less cantrips, which may be right. I dunno. He's certainly pumping less opposing Tarmogoyfs with his list.
Meanwhile I've crossed into 60%+ of cashing dailies with _matsugan's list. Over the weekend I got a 3-1 beating Tarmotwin 2-0, Abzan 2-1, and Merfolk 2-0. The Abzan player drew FOUR Path to Exile game 3, which was ridiculous to fight through, but the strategy of bringing in all creatures, Thoughtseize, and Pact of Negation is working well.
I lost to Grixis Delver by one life point after playing Mishra's Bauble before Monastery Swiftspear turn one and missing the Prowess trigger. Additionally, he sided in Dragon's Claw game 2, so I laughed at him a lot. He was tapped out with 7 life, and I had 2 Monastery Swiftspear and an empty hand. I did the math and thought I would have had him exactly.....but for that Dragon's Claw. So I cursed myself for the stupid artifact misplay and won rds 3 and 4.
I am going to take _matsugan's list to my LGS tomorrow for modern. Not sure if I'll be running the bolts or exchanging them for extra dudes. I'm beginning to rethink the sideboard as well. I feel like the mandrils and the shoals are all basically for the burn matchup. Is anyone siding them in for anything else? I don't know that I want to dedicate 8 cards for 1 match. I'm not sure Phyrexian Unlife or Leyline of Sanctity is the right choice either. Of the two, I prefer unlife. If burn is fixed to kill you turn 3 or 4 and you unlife they are usually going to have to topdeck for a turn or two to get enough gas to win. This should buy us time for the win. Leyline just focuses their hate onto our dudes until they draw their answer to leyline (which if their list isn't terrible, they will be packing). Plus, if we don't have it turn zero, we will likely be dead by the time we play it. And that starts us with a 6 card hand. One other idea I considered is taking out all the mandrils and the shoals for some number or kor firewalker and pump/pertect spells like Vines of vastwood or Apostle's Blessing. We would side out 4 death's shadow and probably some number of probes/wrath for the firewalkers and pump spells. We'd be more like traditional zoo and would have to have some of our lands enter tapped. Haven't tested any of this and don't know if going this far out from our core strategy will work. Just spit balling really. On the plus side, only 4 of our sideboard cards would be specific for the burn match and the extra room would let us play cards relevant in many more matches. It would be nice to test multiple games against someone who owns burn. I'd be willing to be the shadow player or the burn player on modo if someone wants to test as I own both decks. I don't run into burn consistently enough to do a proper test.
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I bring Hooting Mandrills in almost every matchup. To be more specific, it's good against:
-Decks with Lightning Bolt or where Become Immense is a liability
-Lingering Souls/Young Pyromancer/lots of blockers
-Decks with near infinite removal, particularly ones with Inquisition of Kozilek
-Decks that may bring in Chalice of the Void
You can see here, it's a rather important card. The key ability in games 2 and 3 is trample. You'll find that enough games will be lost that would have otherwise been won with Temur Battle Rage because of trample. It almost makes me want to play things that give evasion like Apostle's Blessing or trample like Rancor or Colossal Might.
That being said, I went 2-2 last night after losing my final two matches to Grixis Delver and Naya Burn. In game 2 of the burn matchup, I got 2 pair of Nourishing Shoals with Become Immense and Hooting Mandrills and was still crushed. I am taking these four cards out and the Pact of Negation out for six cards to work with. I liked Phyrexian Unlife and Leyline of Sanctity, and I like Apostle's Blessing and Faith's Shield as well.
Kor Firewalker is rather bad. He forces you to fetch Temple Garden and Sacred Foundry, taking 6, and barely does anything to negate the aggressive amount of life you lose playing the deck. I have found that taking cantrips like Street Wraith and Gitaxian Probe only lead to mana issues.
I bring Hooting Mandrills in almost every matchup. To be more specific, it's good against:
-Decks with Lightning Bolt or where Become Immense is a liability
-Lingering Souls/Young Pyromancer/lots of blockers
-Decks with near infinite removal, particularly ones with Inquisition of Kozilek
-Decks that may bring in Chalice of the Void
You can see here, it's a rather important card. The key ability in games 2 and 3 is trample. You'll find that enough games will be lost that would have otherwise been won with Temur Battle Rage because of trample. It almost makes me want to play things that give evasion like Apostle's Blessing or trample like Rancor or Colossal Might.
That being said, I went 2-2 last night after losing my final two matches to Grixis Delver and Naya Burn. In game 2 of the burn matchup, I got 2 pair of Nourishing Shoals with Become Immense and Hooting Mandrills and was still crushed. I am taking these four cards out and the Pact of Negation out for six cards to work with. I liked Phyrexian Unlife and Leyline of Sanctity, and I like Apostle's Blessing and Faith's Shield as well.
Kor Firewalker is rather bad. He forces you to fetch Temple Garden and Sacred Foundry, taking 6, and barely does anything to negate the aggressive amount of life you lose playing the deck. I have found that taking cantrips like Street Wraith and Gitaxian Probe only lead to mana issues.
I see what you are saying. I guess I was undervaluing the Mandrills but I completely agree that shoals aren't that great and don't even do much in for the one matchup we use them in. I guess I wasn't thinking of the WW it takes for the firewalker as well. When you side in the Mandrills what are you siding out? I'm liking shield over blessing because of the fateful hour. In certain combo matchups, if we can get to 5 life which is not unreasonable, we stop them dead in their tracks. Pact is great when everything happens "just right" but can many times be worthless. So for the sideboard then we have 4 Thoughtseize, 3 Hooting Mandrills 2 ancient grudge. I think for tonight I'm going to run 2 faith's shield, 2 vines of vastwood and perhaps 2 phyrexian unlife though that will depend on if I can get a hold of 2 before the tournament starts.
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Well I never have the full 7-8 Hooting Mandrills and Become Immense unless I am playing against Burn (and even then, I don't think I'm going to play Nourishing Shoal anymore). So some number of Become Immense are going to come out when Mandrills comes in. If I'm not playing against Bolt, then Mutagenic Growth is the easiest card to remove. Otherwise, Bolts may come out. When I bring in Mandrills, I rarely side out creatures, but sometimes I will let between 1-3 go of some number of Steppe Lynx and Monastery Swiftspear. My opponent has to be playing a lot of cards to make me do this though: Lightning Bolt (so I don't side out Mutagenic Growth) and individual blockers that I care about (so I don't side out Bolt).
So I went to the tournament at my LGS and it was kind of disappointing as far as testing was concerned. I ran this list: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/285191#paper but took out two pact of negation and the 4 nourishing shoal from the sideboard. I added 2 phyrexian unlife, 2 faith's shield, and 2 undying evil. Only 9 people showed up for the tournament which sucks because there are usually at least 12 or more. Round 1 I got the bye. Normally I'm happy to get the free win but I would honestly have rather done testing. I drew burn round 2. Game 1 he had back to back searing blaze turn 2 and 3 which was impossible to recover from. I boarded in faith's shields and unlifes. Game 2 was more interesting. On turn 3 I probe him to reveal a deflecting palm and I cast a death's shadow at 11 life with a fetch land on the table in case he tries to burn my creature. He gets my life total to 6. On my turn I swing in with shadow. He declares no blocks then before damage casts palm. I crack my fetch and go to 3, play faith's shield naming R. He almost immediately says that deflecting palm does not target therefore giving my creature pro red doesn't stop palm. I tell him I agree that palm doesn't target my creature, but since my life total is 3, fateful hour is live and that I have pro-red and therefor cannot take damage from a red source. So after the dust settles he takes no damage because his prevention effect still happens but I have a clear path to hit him next turn. He isn't worried because he can kill me on his turn until I drop unlife and pass. He lacks the gas to deal 13 more damage and cannot find a G source to play his destructive revelry. Moral of the story here is that if a burn player knows what you are doing, and is letting you attack in with RW open, BE CAREFUL. They use this against infect as well. Game three my opener has 5 lands and 2 faith's shield. I mull 6 to no lands no cantrips, mull 5 to no lands 3 cantrips and a death's shadow. I decide I can't win if I mull to 4 and try it. I take too much damage off the cantrips and he burns me out 1 turn before I'd kill him with shadow. Unfortunately I think we'll always be a dog against burn but I liked having faith's shield and phyrexian unlife MUCH more than shoals. Round 3 I played against a black white tokens deck. He ran both thoughtseize and inquisition of kozilek. Game 1 I was on the draw, he inquisitioned me and didn't know what to make of my hand. He took a probe because it was otherwise a 1 lander. He should have taken my death's shadow. I win with an immense shadow turn 4. I side in 3 mandrills 2 faith's shield for protection against path to exile and dismember and board out bolts and a become immense. Again he plays inquisition and this time takes a death's shadow. I play a nacatl turn 1. He can't find removal so he starts making a token army. Turn three is become immense + battle rage on an unblocked nacatl for the win. I ended up taking 3rd and getting my entry fee back but again, not a lot of quality testing. In two weeks they are running a tournament for a box of MM2015 so there will certainly be more people! I didn't miss dropping pact or shaols at all! Not sure what number of unlife and protection spells I want yet, but all in all I feel like they are an upgrade.
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Vismal - nice report, I like the detail. Just a quick couple of questions...
Is undying evil > postmortum lunge? I like the lunge, because it is live off the top. But, obviously the threat doesn't last as long. Any thoughts?
I love the faith's shield play you made, really nice. It does seem a pretty decent card in the deck, when I tested it, I did like it. I just didn't like that it cost mana lol. I'm not sure if I just prefer vines of vastwood. I did try both, but not for long enough. Vines is hard to kick!
Drinkard - can you just explain how you work out your mix of fetches? Which shocks do you prioritise in most games? I found Sacred Foundry + Overgrown Tomb to be slightly preferable, but I'm not sure - what order do you do if you've just 1 creature in hand (so therefore don't know which lands you'll need and when). Currently the fetches don't feel perfect for me!
I don't know that I like necessarily prefer undying evil to lunge. I chose undying evil because I have previously tested lunge. Unfortunately I never drew an undying evil. Lunge, as you mentioned, is good off the top and but the threat doesn't stick or get the small pump undying evil adds. I'll be able to play this deck on paper more regularly now that grad school is out for the summer so more testing to come.
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Drinkard - can you just explain how you work out your mix of fetches? Which shocks do you prioritise in most games? I found Sacred Foundry + Overgrown Tomb to be slightly preferable, but I'm not sure - what order do you do if you've just 1 creature in hand (so therefore don't know which lands you'll need and when). Currently the fetches don't feel perfect for me!
I wish I had an enumerated list for you because there are a good number of factors to consider. Generally I prefer Temple Garden, Blood Crypt game one, but there are exceptions.
Steppe Lynx outlives his usefulness quickly, so he is often the turn one play. Therefore, we need white. Usually we aren't able to play Death's Shadow on turn 1, or perhaps he isn't worth the investment or out of Lightning Bolt range if we do. So next turn, we will need black. Often, though, we need Green as well, for Wild Nacatl. So I never liked Overgrown Tomb very much.
The very best turn 1-2 sequence, that leads to the most victories, is turn one Temple Garden, Wild Nacatl with Mutagenic Growth backup. The cat is often bolted, and Mutagenic Growth would not save her with Overgrown Tomb in play. Turn 2, after paying 8 life for fetches and growth, we can play Death's Shadow with Blood Crypt.
While I prefer to have Temple Garden, Blood Crypt, I still play Windswept Heath and Bloodstained Mires because sometimes your opening hand gives you Overgrown Tomb or Sacred Foundry. I don't want to be totally hopeless in these situations and not be able to fetch for the third and fourth colors.
As far as the exceptions go, well, just look at your opening hand and determine the optimal lands to get you to play one creature on turn one and two on turn 2.
As for your question: Do you mean I have one fetchland and one creature in hand? If you have multiple lands and one creature, it doesn't matter so much, but if you have a bunch of cyclers, Wild Nacatl, and a fetch, things are tricky. Overgrown Tomb so you can play Death's Shadow after cycling, or Temple Garden for a more durable kitty? I think the answer is Temple Garden, but it's come back to haunt me before.
I'm 7-2 in the past two days in ranked play: 3-1 in a daily, 1-1 in an 8-man, and 3-0 in another. Happy to beat burn twice with Nourishing Shoals after the last experiences I had left me a bit miserable. I let lands come into play tapped and played a slower game these two matches, and it paid off for me.
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Fiend would work great if your opponent is going to drop an early wall of omens as well. Doesn't happen often though, great against skite. A single copy or even 2 is definitely fun to play with because he gets MASSIVE! Haven't worked out if he is 'gimicky' or not. I don't think he's good in a specific matchup though. Just something that's really easy to get big on turn 3 when you are going for the kill.
Edit- vismal, the number of shoals, mandrills, and become immense can't be right
I have three things I want to try. Here is the deck I've won dailies with:
4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
1 Blood Crypt
Creature
4 Death's Shadow
1 Hooting Mandrills
2 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Street Wraith
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Temur Battle Rage
4 Become Immense
4 Nourishing Shoal
3 Hooting Mandrills
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Pact of Negation
4 Thoughtseize
After frustrations in 3 opening hands with Hooting Mandrills and no other creatures, I want to go back to the 3 Monastery Swiftspear main. I know that when I do, though, I'll get Swiftspear Inquisitioned by Abzan and get mad.
Blood Moon has been dropped on me a lot, and I may go to 12 fetches that get Forest and a basic Forest.
I also may drop 4 Lightning Bolt for 4 Boros Charm.
When I side in Nourishing Shoal, I play all 8 6cc green cards. If I am siding in Hooting Mandrills and no Shoals, I will probably bring out 1-2 Become Immense. When I do this, I think I will appreciate the Boros Charms because they are additional sources of damage. Plus all of their modes are so relevant.
I am switching the manabase to accommodate 4 Boros Charm. We have to have sources that provide R and W separately, and we want 2 different combinations of all 4 colors. So the 4 shocks are now
Godless Shrine
Stomping Ground
Blood Crypt
Temple Garden
The priority is Blood Crypt and Temple Garden because I find that having G and B separated smooths out turn 2.
So the fetches need to get combinations of Black or Red (not both) with white or green (not both). No more Windswept Heath and Bloodstained Mire.
B+W - Marsh Flats
B+G - Verdant Catacombs
R+W - Arid Mesa
R+G - Wooded Foothills
are our four fetches to work with. Whatever 13 suit you and your budget work best.
Again, this is all to try Boros Charm. If I decide to run a basic forest, then my lands will change again.
I've seen The_Architect playing Suicide Zoo a lot in dailies that I was in. He got a 4-0 in the past week, and it was finally published.
I love Boros Charm but I didn't like Stomping Ground, so I dropped Boros Charm because it requires Stomping Ground.
If I were to play anything other than the list I've cashed dailies in, I am currently experimenting with the cards Simian Spirit Guide, Assault Strobe, and more creatures maindeck over the 4 Lightning Bolt. In particular, I like dropping the 4 Bolt for 2 Hooting Mandrills and 2 Assault Strobe. I've increased turn 2 kills with Assault Strobe, but they are certainly high variance.
I really, really like my win % against Twin. I'm undefeated against it in ranked play.
I'm 50-50 against Burn (although I don't think this would be representative in a larger sample)
50-50 against Affinity
75-25 against Abzan
Undefeated against Delver variants
Totally defeated against Bloom Titan
Other decks I've beaten include Bogles, RG Tron, Blue Tron, etc.
I've lost to Death and Taxes, Skred Red, Makeshift, and I haven't played Zoo or Merfolk, strangely.
It's hard to shore up every match. You have a linear deck that can't afford to sacrifice consistency of an early win for consistency against the field.
I played this list:
2 Kiln Fiend
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Death's Shadow
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Monastery Swiftspear
1 Hooting Mandrills
Pump 12
4 Become Immense
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Temur Battle Rage
Card Draw 12
4 Street Wraith
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
1 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
3 Hooting Mandrills
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Thoughtseize
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Pact of Negation
This is basically the original list with no lightning bolts. Instead I went with the full 4 monastery swiftspear and two kiln fiend. I have had a lot of game 3 wins with the fiend but didn't draw him at all today so no real testing.
Infect 2-0 on the draw
He keeps a 1 lander and never gets a second despite two gitaxian probes. He scoops on his turn 4. I would have killed him my turn 4. I never saw an infect creature. I saw a vines of vastwood off a bauble and a forest and nothing else. I was thinking mono G because I've faced that a lot in tournament practice so I don't sideboard anything. Game two he sets up for a turn 4 kill, I win on turn 3 with 2 Monastery Swiftspears, one death's shadow, a mutagenic growth (putting me at 8 life) and a become immense.
Twin 2-1 on the draw
Game 1 he cannot find his combo. He ends up playing his deceiver exarch on my turn 3 to tap down my swiftspear and blocks my 3/3 wild nacatl. Temur battle rage and become immense on the cat FTW. I side in 4 toughtseize and side out 2 street wraith a swiftspear and the hooting mandrills. I keep a hand with probe, 2 baubles, death's shadow, become immense, and 2 lands. I draw mostly land. He has 3 cards in hand, roast, electrolyze, and the card he just drew. I drop my death's shadow knowing I can fetch and shock my way to safety from his removal. He plays cryptic command and counters me. He wins through beatdown from deciever and pestermite as I do not draw another creature. Game 3 he keeps a 1 land hand with no serum visions and I win turn 3 when he has nothing but an island on the board.
Ad Nauseam on the draw 1-2
Turn 3 I had a swiftspear, a become immense, and a temur battlerage. Unfortunately I only had 3 cards in the yard. I have 1 fetch land but also the two lands it can fetch for in my hand. So if I play the shock land, I can't become immense/temur battlerage and if I play the fetch, I cant find a 3rd land. He wins turn 4.
Game two I board in 4 thoughtseize, board out 2 wraith, 1 mandrill, 1 lynx. I thoughtseize him turn 2 and take his ad nauseam. I win turn 3.
Game 3 I thoughtseize him turn 2. He has 3 cards, 2 ad nauseam and an angel's grace so I take the grace. My turn 3 I have a death's shadow on the board, a become immense, and a battle rage in hand. I cannot find the 3rd land to go off. I get him down to 7 so next turn I don't need the combo, just one piece or the other. He has 2 lotus blooms resolve, plays 2 cantrips, then drops a phyrexian unlife and ad naseum. I lost both games 1 and 3 due to mana issues which is highly unusual for this deck.
Round 4 Grixis Delver (I think though I never saw a delver). On the play.
Not much to say here. Game 1 I combo off death's shadow and win turn 3. Game 2 he thinks he has me beat with a turn 3 blood moon and a young pyromancer on the board. I have a 2/2 wild nacatl and a swiftspear. I know the moment he tapped out to play the moon that I've won. I play two mutagenic growths on my swiftspear and tap my two mountains for temur battle rage. That was that.
I got lucky a couple times that my opponents got mana screwed but I felt I had a strong chance to win those games anyways. I didn't miss the lightning bolts at all. Having the extra creatures feels better to me. I'm still not sold on Steppe Lynx. I don't know if it wants to be something else, or maybe reduced to a 2 or 3 of. If so, what to put in it's place? I tried out goblin guide but he doesn't interact well with the rest of the deck. A pair of Simian spirit guides, or maybe moving 2 thoughtseize to the mainboard. Not sure yet. I wish I'd have seen a kiln fiend but I'm pretty comfortable keeping them as a two of for now. I can't wait to play this deck on paper. It's built I just need the right day off to go to a tournament. I am eager to hear how people do with boros charm. I don't have enough Zendikar fetches to test it (on paper or mtgo) so I'll be sticking with the original land base until at least return to Zendikar.
UBWAd NauseamWBU
URStormRU
EDH:
BMikaeus the UnhallowedB
RWAurelia, the WarleaderWR
Ad Nauseam is tough. The moment when you knew you had Twin beat never exists against Ad Nauseam because of pacts and Angel's Grace. Also post side they have a Fog effect or two (Darkness and Holy Light or whatever).
Congrats on the daily result!
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
UBWAd NauseamWBU
URStormRU
EDH:
BMikaeus the UnhallowedB
RWAurelia, the WarleaderWR
PTPaul has another fascinating pay-to-play list on the mothership. Goyfs and Confidants, no street wraith or delve cards.
-4 Mishra's Bauble
+1 Monastery Swiftspear
+3 Titan's Strength
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/tournament/17495
He keeps the land count the same with less cantrips, which may be right. I dunno. He's certainly pumping less opposing Tarmogoyfs with his list.
Meanwhile I've crossed into 60%+ of cashing dailies with _matsugan's list. Over the weekend I got a 3-1 beating Tarmotwin 2-0, Abzan 2-1, and Merfolk 2-0. The Abzan player drew FOUR Path to Exile game 3, which was ridiculous to fight through, but the strategy of bringing in all creatures, Thoughtseize, and Pact of Negation is working well.
I lost to Grixis Delver by one life point after playing Mishra's Bauble before Monastery Swiftspear turn one and missing the Prowess trigger. Additionally, he sided in Dragon's Claw game 2, so I laughed at him a lot. He was tapped out with 7 life, and I had 2 Monastery Swiftspear and an empty hand. I did the math and thought I would have had him exactly.....but for that Dragon's Claw. So I cursed myself for the stupid artifact misplay and won rds 3 and 4.
UBWAd NauseamWBU
URStormRU
EDH:
BMikaeus the UnhallowedB
RWAurelia, the WarleaderWR
-Decks with Lightning Bolt or where Become Immense is a liability
-Lingering Souls/Young Pyromancer/lots of blockers
-Decks with near infinite removal, particularly ones with Inquisition of Kozilek
-Decks that may bring in Chalice of the Void
You can see here, it's a rather important card. The key ability in games 2 and 3 is trample. You'll find that enough games will be lost that would have otherwise been won with Temur Battle Rage because of trample. It almost makes me want to play things that give evasion like Apostle's Blessing or trample like Rancor or Colossal Might.
That being said, I went 2-2 last night after losing my final two matches to Grixis Delver and Naya Burn. In game 2 of the burn matchup, I got 2 pair of Nourishing Shoals with Become Immense and Hooting Mandrills and was still crushed. I am taking these four cards out and the Pact of Negation out for six cards to work with. I liked Phyrexian Unlife and Leyline of Sanctity, and I like Apostle's Blessing and Faith's Shield as well.
Kor Firewalker is rather bad. He forces you to fetch Temple Garden and Sacred Foundry, taking 6, and barely does anything to negate the aggressive amount of life you lose playing the deck. I have found that taking cantrips like Street Wraith and Gitaxian Probe only lead to mana issues.
UBWAd NauseamWBU
URStormRU
EDH:
BMikaeus the UnhallowedB
RWAurelia, the WarleaderWR
UBWAd NauseamWBU
URStormRU
EDH:
BMikaeus the UnhallowedB
RWAurelia, the WarleaderWR
UBWAd NauseamWBU
URStormRU
EDH:
BMikaeus the UnhallowedB
RWAurelia, the WarleaderWR
I wish I had an enumerated list for you because there are a good number of factors to consider.
Generally I prefer Temple Garden, Blood Crypt game one, but there are exceptions.
Steppe Lynx outlives his usefulness quickly, so he is often the turn one play. Therefore, we need white. Usually we aren't able to play Death's Shadow on turn 1, or perhaps he isn't worth the investment or out of Lightning Bolt range if we do. So next turn, we will need black. Often, though, we need Green as well, for Wild Nacatl. So I never liked Overgrown Tomb very much.
The very best turn 1-2 sequence, that leads to the most victories, is turn one Temple Garden, Wild Nacatl with Mutagenic Growth backup. The cat is often bolted, and Mutagenic Growth would not save her with Overgrown Tomb in play. Turn 2, after paying 8 life for fetches and growth, we can play Death's Shadow with Blood Crypt.
While I prefer to have Temple Garden, Blood Crypt, I still play Windswept Heath and Bloodstained Mires because sometimes your opening hand gives you Overgrown Tomb or Sacred Foundry. I don't want to be totally hopeless in these situations and not be able to fetch for the third and fourth colors.
As far as the exceptions go, well, just look at your opening hand and determine the optimal lands to get you to play one creature on turn one and two on turn 2.
As for your question: Do you mean I have one fetchland and one creature in hand? If you have multiple lands and one creature, it doesn't matter so much, but if you have a bunch of cyclers, Wild Nacatl, and a fetch, things are tricky. Overgrown Tomb so you can play Death's Shadow after cycling, or Temple Garden for a more durable kitty? I think the answer is Temple Garden, but it's come back to haunt me before.
I'm 7-2 in the past two days in ranked play: 3-1 in a daily, 1-1 in an 8-man, and 3-0 in another. Happy to beat burn twice with Nourishing Shoals after the last experiences I had left me a bit miserable. I let lands come into play tapped and played a slower game these two matches, and it paid off for me.