What do you guys think of the new primer? Is there anything I missed that you would like me to add?
Keep in mind it is a Competitive Tier 1 primer so I wont be adding mono-red, Jund or Mardu lists to the OP as they typically do not make high place finishes.
If Wild Nacatl was able to make it to the primer list, I think we should also include Vexing Devil. Same with Blackcleave Cliffs if you're running Mardu Burn. Sudden shock in the 2mana spells?
Also, how about Exquisite Firecraft in the sideboard? And maybe Flamebreak, Combust, Relic of Progenitus / Rest in Peace. Leylines are also used by some builds. Sanctity and Punishment.
I guess that doesn't really answer my question. I know revelry takes care of enchantments as well as artifacts. I was referring to ancient grudge and smash to smithereens when I asked if the extra artifact hate was necessary. I wouldn't touch the revelries, but I wondered how people felt about running that much hate even if affinity and lantern are to be expected. Are those match ups that tough for burn to leave out something like rending volley is what I meant to get across.
But you are probably right that the Chandra should be the first thing to go.
The artifact hate in the board just seemed excessive. I like the main deck, but was looking at tweaking the by board dropping the Chandra, Grudge, Smash, for a couple volleys and something else.
Wear/Tear is better than both of those cards you mentioned by a long shot.
On another note: Does anyone have good (recent) Modern Burn articles I could add to the Articles section? I think Nevel0 wrote one a while back but I couldn't find it.
What do you guys think of the new primer? Is there anything I missed that you would like me to add?
Keep in mind it is a Competitive Tier 1 primer so I wont be adding mono-red, Jund or Mardu lists to the OP as they typically do not make high place finishes.
In the sideboard section I would put in Exquisite Firecraft. It's won me games out of the board against U/W control and Grixis Control at SCG events as a one of. I don't know if you've had any results with but its a good card to keep in mind if you have a control heavy meta.
The artifact hate in the board just seemed excessive. I like the main deck, but was looking at tweaking the by board dropping the Chandra, Grudge, Smash, for a couple volleys and something else.
It's a little excessive. I think the Smash has no point here. Grudge could be useful against lantern or 8rack.
Chandra is just bad though. I mean - I understand the reasoning. Against a control matchup if the game goes long she gives you essentially 2 topdecks a turn instead of one.
But that's an iffy reason to run a one-of IMO.
How does everyone feel about stealing Grixis Delver's strategy and putting Spirit Link in our sideboard for the mirror instead of kor firewalker?
neutralizes a threat for 1 mana, turns firewalkers into Dragon's claws, but when it goes on an opposing Eidolon can win games?
I don't think it's a good idea. You can easily get 2 for 1'ed if they bolt the creature. Firewalker is much better because of the pro Red (it can only be path'ed) and the consistent lifegain when ANYONE casts a red spell.
It's never a 2-4-1 if you don't put it on your own creatures.
It makes sense for Firewalker to be better in some situations, but I think landing a link on their Eidolon forces them to kill it or lose.
Tested some games last night where the Vampiric Link on my Eidolon left me trying to top deck a removal for my own creature until I died from never drawing one.
What do you guys think of the new primer? Is there anything I missed that you would like me to add?
Keep in mind it is a Competitive Tier 1 primer so I wont be adding mono-red, Jund or Mardu lists to the OP as they typically do not make high place finishes.
If Wild Nacatl was able to make it to the primer list, I think we should also include Vexing Devil. Same with Blackcleave Cliffs if you're running Mardu Burn. Sudden shock in the 2mana spells?
Also, how about Exquisite Firecraft in the sideboard? And maybe Flamebreak, Combust, Relic of Progenitus / Rest in Peace. Leylines are also used by some builds. Sanctity and Punishment.
Thanks for the feedback!
Vexing devil is included in the alternate builds list for the mono-red deck. I don't think it should be included under 1 drops in the primer though because it's not a competitive choice. Vexing Devil is a subpar choice compared to our other creatures and should only be played in mono-red.
Blackleave cliffs I will add under the lands section. Sudden shock is not good enough for Burn, 2 mana for 2 damage is not where we want to be. I also think Flamebreak is too narrow and doesn't really help us against our bad matchups.
Grave hate like Relic/RiP is not needed as we are generally already well favoured against grave-based strategies or decks that make use of their graveyard. They would take up precious SB slots.
Leylines are also a bad choice in general but I will add Leyline of punishment under the SB section since I've seen it in a few decks.
How does everyone feel about stealing Grixis Delver's strategy and putting Spirit Link in our sideboard for the mirror instead of kor firewalker?
neutralizes a threat for 1 mana, turns firewalkers into Dragon's claws, but when it goes on an opposing Eidolon can win games?
I don't think it's a good idea. You can easily get 2 for 1'ed if they bolt the creature. Firewalker is much better because of the pro Red (it can only be path'ed) and the consistent lifegain when ANYONE casts a red spell.
It's never a 2-4-1 if you don't put it on your own creatures.
It makes sense for Firewalker to be better in some situations, but I think landing a link on their Eidolon forces them to kill it or lose.
Tested some games last night where the Vampiric Link on my Eidolon left me trying to top deck a removal for my own creature until I died from never drawing one.
I still think playing Spirit Link is a mistake. There's too many "If's" when you're trying to cast it on an opposing Eidolon and most Burn players side out Eidolon in the play anyway. Kor Firewalker is much more consistent and versatile. You could even bring it in against Grixis control.
Not to mention I haven't seen any high level lists run Spirit Link.
Wear/Tear is better than both of those cards you mentioned by a long shot.
On another note: Does anyone have good (recent) Modern Burn articles I could add to the Articles section? I think Nevel0 wrote one a while back but I couldn't find it.
I'm currently working on putting burn together and this is the list I'm going off of for the most part because I think it's really solid. There are a few changes I plan on making though - namely cutting the Vexing Devil and changing the sideboard. I really don't like Electrickery and don't think Grafdigger's Cage is necessary. The third Skullcrack seems like a lot too.
I like the idea of playing Volcanic Fallout instead of some of these cards, but do you shave/sandbag your Goblin Guides when you board those in? Or just kind of not care about it hitting your Guides? Also, would you bring it in for the mirror if your opponent isn't playing Nacatls? Any other general sideboarding tips would be really helpful and much appreciated!
I would never side out Goblin guide. If playing Fallout and you need to cast it to survive, you wont care about killing your own Guides, especially since if they have a board presence they'll be blocking the Guide anyway. I wouldn't bring it in for the mirror we have stronger SB cards and you don't want to over-sideboard.
There's a pretty decent SB'ing guide in the Articles section titled: Modern Nexus Burn primer
@Arkaedrian I like Sudden Shock if there is a lot of infect. It kills in response to the first pump spell and keeps them from using spellskite to redirect or another pump/protection spell. Tips the scales in game 2 and 3 further in our favor as their dispel/spell pierce is useless.
It can also take a piece of Abzan company and they can't combo off in response. It has a lot of potential, I just don't think people have looked at it enough. It may not belong in the primer, but there should be a discussion and testing done with it.
@Arkaedrian I like Sudden Shock if there is a lot of infect. It kills in response to the first pump spell and keeps them from using spellskite to redirect or another pump/protection spell. Tips the scales in game 2 and 3 further in our favor as their dispel/spell pierce is useless.
It can also take a piece of Abzan company and they can't combo off in response. It has a lot of potential, I just don't think people have looked at it enough. It may not belong in the primer, but there should be a discussion and testing done with it.
I agree with the second part of your post. If people playtest with it and report that it does well for them, I will add it to the primer. For now I think it's slightly too narrow a SB card and there are better, more diverse and competitive choices.
Added KhaosSpawn's articles to the primer!
What do you guys think of Abbot of Keral keep? I know some lists, and Nevel0, have tested with it and reported that it performed pretty well. Do you guys think it's worth a 1-2-of in place of Lavaman? Anyone done a lot of testing with it?
The Tom Ferguson ones are great. Most of them are more Legacy oriented, but there's some play philosophy in them. The "Playing around counters" article I linked is good as well.
I feel like abbot is a 3rd turn creature (which we don't usually want) and even on the 3rd turn, half our spells are uncastable (22/41 if we look at the Seth Manfield's fate reforged list), not being able to suspend Rift Bolt is also really annoying
But then again, I never actually tested him in modern, so I might be completely wrong
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"What's your plan?" Gideon asked.
"Are you serious?" Chandra replied.
Lavaman is better in the long games vs control which is where we stall. Abbot is bad in the long game as we are still casting the card (non-land) and it can be dealt with. If we land the lavaman it needs to be removed or we get major card advantage. If Abbot had haste or flash instead of prowess I would love him. As he stands, we get a 3-4 drop that can whiff really hard. Against the fast decks we want to draw guaranteed gas and in long games lavaman is better.
Not sure if my question got answered before we got upgraded. in a Naya build with 19 lands, how many green sources would I need. 4x Atarkas commands and 3x destructive revelry in the side. 2x stomping and 1x copperline ?
I run 3 stomping grounds in my naya. The 2-1 split you have should be alright. We don't ever need double green so 2 fetchable sources should be good. I don't have copperline gorge so I just used what I had, but the idea of dropping a land that hurts me sounds like a good idea.
Not sure if my question got answered before we got upgraded. in a Naya build with 19 lands, how many green sources would I need. 4x Atarkas commands and 3x destructive revelry in the side. 2x stomping and 1x copperline ?
I'm running a 19-land Naya Burn deck as well, although I have 4x Destructive Revelry on the side. I run 2x Stomping Ground since we don't have double GG as mentioned. My complete manabase is:
I also have Bloodstained Mires that could replace those tarns. I just find it great that a t1 Tarn still sometimes tricks an opponent that we are not playing burn (unless they are your friends).
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Modern Decks:WRGThe Colors of FireGRW || CUBRAge of Ultron (Affinity - Under Construction)RBUC
If Wild Nacatl was able to make it to the primer list, I think we should also include Vexing Devil. Same with Blackcleave Cliffs if you're running Mardu Burn. Sudden shock in the 2mana spells?
Also, how about Exquisite Firecraft in the sideboard? And maybe Flamebreak, Combust, Relic of Progenitus / Rest in Peace. Leylines are also used by some builds. Sanctity and Punishment.
Sorry, the deck list got lost in the primer transition. I was asking about this deck. http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=95760
The artifact hate in the board just seemed excessive. I like the main deck, but was looking at tweaking the by board dropping the Chandra, Grudge, Smash, for a couple volleys and something else.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
I have several from 2014 and 2015.
Jasper Johnson-Epstein 2014
Seth Manfield 2015
Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa 2015
Patrick Sullivan 2014
Tom Ferguson Series 2014
In the sideboard section I would put in Exquisite Firecraft. It's won me games out of the board against U/W control and Grixis Control at SCG events as a one of. I don't know if you've had any results with but its a good card to keep in mind if you have a control heavy meta.
It's a little excessive. I think the Smash has no point here. Grudge could be useful against lantern or 8rack.
Chandra is just bad though. I mean - I understand the reasoning. Against a control matchup if the game goes long she gives you essentially 2 topdecks a turn instead of one.
But that's an iffy reason to run a one-of IMO.
It makes sense for Firewalker to be better in some situations, but I think landing a link on their Eidolon forces them to kill it or lose.
Tested some games last night where the Vampiric Link on my Eidolon left me trying to top deck a removal for my own creature until I died from never drawing one.
Thanks for the feedback!
Vexing devil is included in the alternate builds list for the mono-red deck. I don't think it should be included under 1 drops in the primer though because it's not a competitive choice. Vexing Devil is a subpar choice compared to our other creatures and should only be played in mono-red.
Blackleave cliffs I will add under the lands section. Sudden shock is not good enough for Burn, 2 mana for 2 damage is not where we want to be. I also think Flamebreak is too narrow and doesn't really help us against our bad matchups.
Grave hate like Relic/RiP is not needed as we are generally already well favoured against grave-based strategies or decks that make use of their graveyard. They would take up precious SB slots.
Leylines are also a bad choice in general but I will add Leyline of punishment under the SB section since I've seen it in a few decks.
I will add Firecraft in the SB section.
I still think playing Spirit Link is a mistake. There's too many "If's" when you're trying to cast it on an opposing Eidolon and most Burn players side out Eidolon in the play anyway. Kor Firewalker is much more consistent and versatile. You could even bring it in against Grixis control.
Not to mention I haven't seen any high level lists run Spirit Link.
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
Jasper Johnson-Epstein actually has a more recent decklist that he Top 8ed GP Oklahoma City with not too long ago. http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1249106
I'm currently working on putting burn together and this is the list I'm going off of for the most part because I think it's really solid. There are a few changes I plan on making though - namely cutting the Vexing Devil and changing the sideboard. I really don't like Electrickery and don't think Grafdigger's Cage is necessary. The third Skullcrack seems like a lot too.
I like the idea of playing Volcanic Fallout instead of some of these cards, but do you shave/sandbag your Goblin Guides when you board those in? Or just kind of not care about it hitting your Guides? Also, would you bring it in for the mirror if your opponent isn't playing Nacatls? Any other general sideboarding tips would be really helpful and much appreciated!
There's a pretty decent SB'ing guide in the Articles section titled: Modern Nexus Burn primer
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
It can also take a piece of Abzan company and they can't combo off in response. It has a lot of potential, I just don't think people have looked at it enough. It may not belong in the primer, but there should be a discussion and testing done with it.
I agree with the second part of your post. If people playtest with it and report that it does well for them, I will add it to the primer. For now I think it's slightly too narrow a SB card and there are better, more diverse and competitive choices.
Added KhaosSpawn's articles to the primer!
What do you guys think of Abbot of Keral keep? I know some lists, and Nevel0, have tested with it and reported that it performed pretty well. Do you guys think it's worth a 1-2-of in place of Lavaman? Anyone done a lot of testing with it?
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
But then again, I never actually tested him in modern, so I might be completely wrong
"Are you serious?" Chandra replied.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
I'm sure we all have asked wondered about this at one point or the other when going up against those pesky blue mages...
I'm running a 19-land Naya Burn deck as well, although I have 4x Destructive Revelry on the side. I run 2x Stomping Ground since we don't have double GG as mentioned. My complete manabase is:
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Scalding Tarn
3x Sacred Foundry
2x Stomping Ground
4x Mountain
I also have Bloodstained Mires that could replace those tarns. I just find it great that a t1 Tarn still sometimes tricks an opponent that we are not playing burn (unless they are your friends).
Absolutely. I linked this one in another post, along with several other articles. I don't know why Arkaedrian ignored them.