I went 2-2 at FNM last night, then round 5 my opponent conceded so they could go get dinner. I beat Humans, the Jeskai mirror, and then lost to Living End and UR pryomancer/moon.
Game 1 (p, opponent mulled once); My opener was sacred foundry, flooded strand, island, secure the wastes, bolt, helix, lyze. I originally thought he was on Jeskai, so was kept to try and play a tempo game, but he ended up switching to humans which made my hand line up great. He was mana flooded, and I could just clean up whatever small creatures he threw out. I dropped a Jace on an empty board and started fatesealing, and he conceded shortly after.
Game 2 (draw): Openered was 2 colonnades, tarn, island, snap, jace, verdict. The hand had little starting interaction, but I usually keep hands with a sweaper + snap against a lot of aggro decks, because few can get under me fast enough. Bill played a lot more at tempo, some Freebooter's took some removal, sin collector hit my verdict, and dropped a meddling mage that took me off of two snapcaster mages. He vialed in a xathrid necromancer in response to a kill spell, but was otherwise out of cards when I still had 4 in hand, (2 snap, tarn, secure the wastes). He misplayed and attacked for lethal with everything including the meddling mage, but I secured the waste for a bunch, took out the mage and gave him a bunch of tokens. Then could use snapcaster to grind out a helix in my graveyard, and block the necromancer tokens. I dropped Elspeth and he had nothing left to fight with.
Side notes: I think it is better on the margin to bring out another jace and leave in another cryptic. My opponent thinks it is right to bring out all the jace as well to bring in clique, staticaster, and more counters for runed halo. I agree with clique and staticaster, but I don't think I'm a fan of halo.
Rd 2 vs Kyle on Jeskai. Tradiaionally Kyle was on UW control, but I guess had switched. When he told me I felt much more comfortable, since he was also running 3 geists and 2 clique's main, so was a bit more tempo oriented than I was.
Game 1 (draw): opening hand was colonnade, flooded strand, sulfur falls, snap, lyze, jace, helix. Again, this offers me an ability to trade off early resources, and I like lyze in these matchups a lot as card advantage. We both traded down resources a bunch, snap bolting each other, both resolving and eating each other's jaces. I was able to counter his early geist, and then gain more card advantage that carried me through to the end.
brought in d sphere, elspeth, 2 negate, 2 dispel, out 2 knot, 3 helix, 1 jace. I almost always side out 2 knot when I'm bringing in the 4 extra counter spells. In these matchups I feel like my graveyard can get heavily overworked between snap and counter wars, but keeping power cards in it is super useful. I also favor mana efficiency of bolt over the incremental life gain of helix, and it keeps my mana a little nicer.
game 2 (draw): I first draw a hand of 5 lands, snapcaster, verdict, and mull. I decide this is a matchup where I need to keep some form of interaction. Compared to the rest of the night, I apparently didn't write down what my keeping hand was. But it was something like 2 lands, 2 serum visions, a path, and a non-counterspell card. I misplay and both turns 1 and 2 serum visions, and Kyle turn 3 geist, turn 4 clique's me, and I have no responses.
I side out 2 path and bring in my own clique and a settle the wreckage.
game 3 (play): Both Kyle and I go to 6. My first hand was island, path, snap, verdict, secure, bolt, elspeth. My second one was 3 island, scalding tarn, bolt, negate. I know this doesn't protect me from a turn 3 geist, but I have a lot of live top decks, and has enough interaction I don't feel uncomfortable with. I play drop lands and pass. Kyle drops a snapcaster that gets in two beats before it eats a bolt. Eventually we both resolve jace's, and I fateseal him to get out of bolt range, and he jacestorms. We both end up killing each other's jaces before we can get too much advantage out of it, but as a result I'm left with search for azcanta and elspeth in hand. I bait the search to draw out cryptic command, resolve elsepth and despite top decking baneslayer angel, Kyle is dead on board.
Elspeth is a beat. I liked my sideboarding here. I still think there is a discussion on what parts of the removal suite to bring out though, and I'm interested in others opinions.
Rd 3 vs Alex on Living End.
Game 1 (play): hand is colonnade, tarn, plains, field of ruins, sacred foundry, bolt, knot. Again, a land heavy start, but in the blind, it has bolt and knot which protect me a little bit, and hopefully I can draw into more interaction. In hindsight I might have mulled to a hand without 5 land, but my 2 nonland felt strong. He ends up cycling a bunch, then plays fulminator mage which eats my logic knot. I've still failed to draw blue sources to get the two cryptics in my hand online, and have been tight on lands, so I try to field of ruin end of turn to get me a third blue source. He violent outbursts in response, get backs his fulminator and blows up my colonnade so I can't verdict. I untap, drop a land and pass, play cryptic tap draw, Play another land, looking to snap cryptic, but he discards faerie macabre to remove my cryptic, I secure the wastes for a bit instead to buy a turn, but he plays fulminator and blows up one of my two white producing sources so I can't supreme verdict anyway.
In: 2 negate, 2 dispel, purge, ee (obvious mistake), d sphere, settle the wreckage. Out: 3 bolt, spel snare, helix, 2 jace.
Game 2 (play): Hand is hallowed fountain, sacred foundry, ee, cryptic, verdict, helix, purge. I realize I made a mistake by boarding in explosives, so evaluate the hand as a 6. I still have 2 live lands, a source of (permanent) removal, and two ways to kill time if I hit my land drops. I hit search for azcanta as my second draw, and, since I don't have any permission up, missing a land drop, and no way to bluff a knot, play search to hope and try to dig for a land. The hope is that he'll be able to cycle a few things, living end, and I'll be able to recover. In response he cycles a bunch, and ends up drawing, and cycling, 3 street wraith, one of his 4/4's that pumps, and one of the 5/4s, and then on his turn violent outbursts into living end. I draw a 3rd land and pass. He untaps, drops another land, attacks, I purge the 4/4 that pumps, take a casual 14, he plays fulminator mage and blows up my hallowed fountain and I have no outs.
Outside of bringing in EE which I shouldn't have, I liked my boarding plan here, and I think I got unlucky given the number of counters in my deck. Should I be more aggressively mulligan-ing to get to them?
Rd 4 vs Jacob on UR Pyromancer/Moon
Game 1 (play): Jacob mull's twice. I keep a hand of 2 hallowed fountain, 1 snap, 1 steam vents, 2 serum visions, 1 logic knot. Jacob gets heavily land screwed, and I get so far ahead I'm able to jace + protect it and just fateseal him out of the game. Never get to actually ult, but would have on my next turn. I see a blood moon and a pyromancer and a bunch of basics.
Game 2 (draw) I keep bolt, mountain, path, strand, search, colonnade, flooded strand. We trade off a bunch of resources, and eventually I'm up on lands but out of gas and haven't drawn a jace, or search in probably my top 25. I hold wear // tear and purge in my hand on an empty board, but I have only non-basic white sources. I decide to start clocking my opponent with colonnade, who then plays blood moon. I float from my second colonnade and wear // tear it (after a minor timing misplay on my part, but we sorted it out), and go to wear // tear it, but he has the dispel. I then brick on any action with a path and purge in my hand, and he drops a battleskull and I get vroom vroom'd.
Game 3 (play): I didn't write down my hand here (ugh, I was doing so good ComplexSystems!) but it was something like 2-3 lands and some interaction. But I end up bricking on land or serum visions for 3 draws in a row, he eventually drops a pyromancer and blood moon oh and did turn 1/3 suspend Ancestral Visions. Never showed up for the game.
I felt like I could have won game 2 if I drew any of my stronger card advantage engines, but was happy with the round overall.
Rd 5 vs Jim on 5c tribal zoo.
Jim concedes to me so he can go get dinner at 11:20 or whatever obnoxiously late time it is. Naturally I play versus the air and it is the most amazing interactive game of magic ever seen by no one.
Some general notes: I was hot on 3 jaces, but in a lot of matchups I just decided I would rather try 2. This might have cost me game 2 versus the UR moon deck, since I didn't have as many ways of gaining advantage/jace can win by himself, but against many control matchups I like digging in and trying to drag things out, and against aggro matchups he's not great. I never played versus any of the midrange decks that showed up that day, and I continue to expect the meta to be heavily control/aggro in my meta, I might drop to 2 and add in a fourth bolt/cryptic.
2-0 Tron, yay Ambush Viper!
2-0 Bogles, yay Runed Halo lol.
2-1 Storm, lost game 1, Runed Halo game 2, and masses of Counters + Burn game 3.
And I was thinking life was amazing.
Then 0-2 Emeria. The recursion got me. I just ran out of steam.
2-0 Esper Control. Burn + Snaps EOT applies the pressure that we play Red for while Keranos also came in and did his work.
0-2 Dredge....this one simply felt unwinnable with my current configuration of the deck. Seem like a fair statement?
All told, unless I swap out something to handle GW hate, I feel really good with how things are now.
Congrats on some good results in tough MU's (tron and bogles)!.
You're correct, your type of list can't expect to win against Dredge without some luck. It's not incorrect to ignore the dredge MU, as it doesn't really get much over 50% post-board even with RIP or Relic. But if your wider meta also has other GY decks, or you have Dredge every single week, then I can see wanting to include grave-hate.
I don't like running Grave Hate since the printing of Azcanta and the adoption of logic knot, here is how I used to board against dredge without GY hate; (from my pre-banlist list).
running a gearhulk isnt really worth it anymore. it was a nice beatstick to search up for lists playing a nahiri, and leverage the 4 cryptics most lists were rocking.
with nahiri sidelined and some number of cryptics being cut to make room for jace gearhulk is less appealing
right now im trying out the 2 jace 1 gideon (AoZ) split to see how that works out. though i am not averse to trying out a jace/nahiri split.
it may end up that just playing 3 jaces is the best route, but i like having a little spice in my lists. nahiri was nice for the main deck enchantment removal, and was a little incentive to play wonky value creatures (gearhulk, jace VP, inferno titan, thundermaw, etc).
as for the dredge matchup, im in favor of just leaning on exile effects. 0oSunnYo0 hit it on the head. we rely on our own GY more than we used to, so its really hard to justify GY hate.
anger of the gods, d-sphere, settle the wreckage are good options. celestial purge is particularly well positioned at the moment (im actually thinking of going up to 3)
i think there is an argument to be made for settle the wreckage main deck. possibly in place of a verdict. being able to hold up mana AND exile threats is a world of difference. though i admit i havent played with the card much so my assessment of its downside is suspect.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I dropped Gearhulk and Nahiri but kept Gideon. The previous post was a sideboard plan taken from my pre-banlist update list, which had Gearhulk.
I still think Gearhulk is a fine card, but I think if I play gearhulk again it will be with 2x main-deck copies, 2x Clique, 2x Resto, 4x Cryptic, 2x Glimmer, 3x FoR, and Spreading Seas. Like a "Big Flash style. I don't think he's the best finisher for a Jace deck.
I'm still finding Secure the Wastes amazing. Protect Jace, attack Jace, win the game. It does all 3.
The 4CMC slot has felt fine at 8, and I'm on 25 lands so I don't feel greedy.
well im not positive on what the best list will end up looking like. however we are attempting to adopt some number of jaces (greater than 1), into a deck that was usually only playing a single 4 cmc planeswalker.
jace is card advantage/selection, and a 4 mana play. so the reasonable approach is to cut similar, albeit less powerful, effects. namely sphinx's rev and cryptic commands.
torrential gearhulk is a pretty sweet value card. some lists were cutting a snapcaster for a gearhulk, and others weren't. lists were pretty unanimously playing the full 4 cryptics.
the best gearhulk plays involved either getting gearhulk with nahiri, or just end-stepping gearhulk, into cryptic command. this was largely due to the 6 cmc cost being the same as snap + cryptic but with the added benefit of a 5/6 body.
no nahiri, and less cryptics in the deck means the likelihood of achieving those high value plays is lower than it was before, and warrants going back up to the full 4 snaps (if you werent already)
in light of this i believe it is harder to justify a deck slot for gearhulk, which would otherwise be used for some other piece of cheaper interaction
thats my reasoning at the moment.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
yeah i agree about not going all in on jace. right now i run 2, but i think there are valid reasons for playing anywhere from 1 to 4 depending on the build.
i personally dont see a place for gearhulk at the moment, but ill keep an open mind.
ive entertained the idea of Entreat the Angels, but i dont think im ready to let go of secure the waste. i havent seen/heard of any successful attempts at building a miracle shell. mostly just gimmicky attempts, and there might just be too many moving parts to get it to work. you need a lot of jaces, ways to set up the top of your deck, and instant speed draw. so you need like 3-4 jaces, opt, and cards like Telling Time. not exactly the best place to be.
if you are just running a single entreat for value...i guess thats feasible. however it needs to provide value beyond whatever card its replacing. it would be pretty sweet if it worked out.
i dont see it so much as building around jace, but rather that it is just a super powerful effect that we want to include in our deck. the cost of that inclusion is addressing our spell base to make sure we have the highest chance of having a mana efficient play at each point in the curve.
it may end up that we can support playing the full set of cryptics and some number of jaces, but it is equally likely that it would make the deck too top heavy. i personally tend to lean towards less power but more consistent deck building choices.
check out the lists from the recent mtgo modern challenge:
look at 4th and 11th place. 4th place guy cut bolts entirely (crazy right?)
11th place is Ben Nikolich, a talented jeskai pilot on the scg tour. he streams on twitch as BenPatNik (thanks to 0oSunnYo0 for pointing that out). the video of him playing through the modern challenge is up if you want to see the deck in action.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I read a match report from the pilot of that 4th place (7-1) list. Grim Lavamanver came in Vs. Humans, and Vizier / CoCo decks.
His comment on no bolts was 'didn't really miss them' if things like humans, infect or vizier become more prevalent and you want bolts in the 60 he suggests cutting 1-2 lyze and 1 cryptic. I suspect the Grim Lavamancer SB plan is in place partly because of the decision to run no bolts.
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Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
So this is what I am currently experimenting with. After playing in a Super FNM the other day against a few different deck styles I was impressed with how well Geist lines up against rival Jace and BBE. Then in side boarding you would have the supreme verdicts and whatnot.. (Although possible to take out sphinx's rev and possibly something else to include 2 supreme verdict however I really want to stay away from too many 4 drops if I can help it
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
I'm just not a fan of Gearhulk anymore. Its just too slow
Okay so at first I would have totally agreed.. But I think what happens is that sitting on the amount of 4 drops now keeps the deck kind of at a plateau in the midrange portion of the game
.. Realistically we aren't going to ultimate jace for a win and if our card advantage is only bringing responses to their threats they will eventually overpower us.. (by this I mean, Jace 0 ability to brainstorm getting us Path to exiles and lands does nothing to close the game..)
So we need something hard hitting to finish things off; be it a torrential gear hulk/geist/vendilion/secure the wastes etc.. and I think that torrential is the best at doing so given that he is at instant speed, gets a resource from the graveyard, and is large enough to not die to a bolt or fatal push like vendilion clique does
that is what I have gotten over the past few weeks
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
i stand by my opinion that playing anything less than 4 snaps is just wrong.
secure has been a preferable finisher because it can be used in the early/mid game for blockers or pressure, while also being flashbacked if needed.
gearhulk is a fine beatstick, but doesnt have evasion or innate protection like hexproof. so your mileage may vary.
elspeth suns champ is a common finisher found in the sideboards, and is brought in for basically any matchup that isnt super fast.
if you are playing the more controlly versions of the list, just sitting around continously brainstorming is a pretty typical scenario. getting a full hand that has answers to their next 5+ potential plays while you apply savage 2/1 snapcaster beats is sorta what you sign up for with this deck.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I havent seen anyone post this list that won in holland
I have been of the mindset that 24 lands is not necessary like many belive and this list confirms that hypothesis. I play 22 in my list and it is just fine for me.
i think 3 colonnade is also perfect seems the pilot believed this as well.
Since youre still on the geist plan (as i am as well) try a 1 of steel of the god head. I mentioned it earlier but ppl were of the mind set that a combo card is just bad for the deck (while snapcaster imo is purely a combo card)
Take out the one of revelation and put in a steel of the god head. It has won me so many games on my geist and even queller.
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Modern RUAffinityUR GMono Green StompyG CEldrazi TronC URWJeskai GeistWRU WRBoros BurnRW BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
i think geist is a fine maindeck card at the moment if you wanna go that direction. though i cant be on board with playing spell queller. that card just opens you up to so many blowouts, especially with lightning bolt on the rise.
playing 24 lands is the cuttoff if you want to reliably reach 4 mana on turn 4. having access to cantrips like serum/opt alters the math somewhat, but just keep that in mind when deciding to shave lands.
ill be interested to see if anyone can crack some sort of midrangy flash build. resto angel seems well positioned.
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4 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Spells
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
1 Secure the Wastes
4 Serum Visions
1 Spell Snare
3 Lightning Helix
3 Logic Knot
1 Negate
2 Electrolyze
3 Cryptic Command
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Search for Azcanta
Lands
3 Celestial Colonnade
1 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Dispel
1 Celestial Purge
2 Negate
1 Wear // Tear
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Runed Halo
1 Detention Sphere
Rd 1 vs Bill on Humans.
Game 1 (p, opponent mulled once); My opener was sacred foundry, flooded strand, island, secure the wastes, bolt, helix, lyze. I originally thought he was on Jeskai, so was kept to try and play a tempo game, but he ended up switching to humans which made my hand line up great. He was mana flooded, and I could just clean up whatever small creatures he threw out. I dropped a Jace on an empty board and started fatesealing, and he conceded shortly after.
Out: 3 cryptic commands, 1 negate, 1 knot, 1 jace. In: Settle the wreckage, engineered explosives, d sphere, wear // tear, purge, elspeth.
Game 2 (draw): Openered was 2 colonnades, tarn, island, snap, jace, verdict. The hand had little starting interaction, but I usually keep hands with a sweaper + snap against a lot of aggro decks, because few can get under me fast enough. Bill played a lot more at tempo, some Freebooter's took some removal, sin collector hit my verdict, and dropped a meddling mage that took me off of two snapcaster mages. He vialed in a xathrid necromancer in response to a kill spell, but was otherwise out of cards when I still had 4 in hand, (2 snap, tarn, secure the wastes). He misplayed and attacked for lethal with everything including the meddling mage, but I secured the waste for a bunch, took out the mage and gave him a bunch of tokens. Then could use snapcaster to grind out a helix in my graveyard, and block the necromancer tokens. I dropped Elspeth and he had nothing left to fight with.
Side notes: I think it is better on the margin to bring out another jace and leave in another cryptic. My opponent thinks it is right to bring out all the jace as well to bring in clique, staticaster, and more counters for runed halo. I agree with clique and staticaster, but I don't think I'm a fan of halo.
Rd 2 vs Kyle on Jeskai. Tradiaionally Kyle was on UW control, but I guess had switched. When he told me I felt much more comfortable, since he was also running 3 geists and 2 clique's main, so was a bit more tempo oriented than I was.
Game 1 (draw): opening hand was colonnade, flooded strand, sulfur falls, snap, lyze, jace, helix. Again, this offers me an ability to trade off early resources, and I like lyze in these matchups a lot as card advantage. We both traded down resources a bunch, snap bolting each other, both resolving and eating each other's jaces. I was able to counter his early geist, and then gain more card advantage that carried me through to the end.
brought in d sphere, elspeth, 2 negate, 2 dispel, out 2 knot, 3 helix, 1 jace. I almost always side out 2 knot when I'm bringing in the 4 extra counter spells. In these matchups I feel like my graveyard can get heavily overworked between snap and counter wars, but keeping power cards in it is super useful. I also favor mana efficiency of bolt over the incremental life gain of helix, and it keeps my mana a little nicer.
game 2 (draw): I first draw a hand of 5 lands, snapcaster, verdict, and mull. I decide this is a matchup where I need to keep some form of interaction. Compared to the rest of the night, I apparently didn't write down what my keeping hand was. But it was something like 2 lands, 2 serum visions, a path, and a non-counterspell card. I misplay and both turns 1 and 2 serum visions, and Kyle turn 3 geist, turn 4 clique's me, and I have no responses.
I side out 2 path and bring in my own clique and a settle the wreckage.
game 3 (play): Both Kyle and I go to 6. My first hand was island, path, snap, verdict, secure, bolt, elspeth. My second one was 3 island, scalding tarn, bolt, negate. I know this doesn't protect me from a turn 3 geist, but I have a lot of live top decks, and has enough interaction I don't feel uncomfortable with. I play drop lands and pass. Kyle drops a snapcaster that gets in two beats before it eats a bolt. Eventually we both resolve jace's, and I fateseal him to get out of bolt range, and he jacestorms. We both end up killing each other's jaces before we can get too much advantage out of it, but as a result I'm left with search for azcanta and elspeth in hand. I bait the search to draw out cryptic command, resolve elsepth and despite top decking baneslayer angel, Kyle is dead on board.
Elspeth is a beat. I liked my sideboarding here. I still think there is a discussion on what parts of the removal suite to bring out though, and I'm interested in others opinions.
Rd 3 vs Alex on Living End.
Game 1 (play): hand is colonnade, tarn, plains, field of ruins, sacred foundry, bolt, knot. Again, a land heavy start, but in the blind, it has bolt and knot which protect me a little bit, and hopefully I can draw into more interaction. In hindsight I might have mulled to a hand without 5 land, but my 2 nonland felt strong. He ends up cycling a bunch, then plays fulminator mage which eats my logic knot. I've still failed to draw blue sources to get the two cryptics in my hand online, and have been tight on lands, so I try to field of ruin end of turn to get me a third blue source. He violent outbursts in response, get backs his fulminator and blows up my colonnade so I can't verdict. I untap, drop a land and pass, play cryptic tap draw, Play another land, looking to snap cryptic, but he discards faerie macabre to remove my cryptic, I secure the wastes for a bit instead to buy a turn, but he plays fulminator and blows up one of my two white producing sources so I can't supreme verdict anyway.
In: 2 negate, 2 dispel, purge, ee (obvious mistake), d sphere, settle the wreckage. Out: 3 bolt, spel snare, helix, 2 jace.
Game 2 (play): Hand is hallowed fountain, sacred foundry, ee, cryptic, verdict, helix, purge. I realize I made a mistake by boarding in explosives, so evaluate the hand as a 6. I still have 2 live lands, a source of (permanent) removal, and two ways to kill time if I hit my land drops. I hit search for azcanta as my second draw, and, since I don't have any permission up, missing a land drop, and no way to bluff a knot, play search to hope and try to dig for a land. The hope is that he'll be able to cycle a few things, living end, and I'll be able to recover. In response he cycles a bunch, and ends up drawing, and cycling, 3 street wraith, one of his 4/4's that pumps, and one of the 5/4s, and then on his turn violent outbursts into living end. I draw a 3rd land and pass. He untaps, drops another land, attacks, I purge the 4/4 that pumps, take a casual 14, he plays fulminator mage and blows up my hallowed fountain and I have no outs.
Outside of bringing in EE which I shouldn't have, I liked my boarding plan here, and I think I got unlucky given the number of counters in my deck. Should I be more aggressively mulligan-ing to get to them?
Rd 4 vs Jacob on UR Pyromancer/Moon
Game 1 (play): Jacob mull's twice. I keep a hand of 2 hallowed fountain, 1 snap, 1 steam vents, 2 serum visions, 1 logic knot. Jacob gets heavily land screwed, and I get so far ahead I'm able to jace + protect it and just fateseal him out of the game. Never get to actually ult, but would have on my next turn. I see a blood moon and a pyromancer and a bunch of basics.
Out: 3 helix, 2 knot, 1 bolt, 1 path, 1 jace. In: 1 staticaster, 1 ee, 2 dispel, 2 negate, 1 purge, 1 wear // tear.
Game 2 (draw) I keep bolt, mountain, path, strand, search, colonnade, flooded strand. We trade off a bunch of resources, and eventually I'm up on lands but out of gas and haven't drawn a jace, or search in probably my top 25. I hold wear // tear and purge in my hand on an empty board, but I have only non-basic white sources. I decide to start clocking my opponent with colonnade, who then plays blood moon. I float from my second colonnade and wear // tear it (after a minor timing misplay on my part, but we sorted it out), and go to wear // tear it, but he has the dispel. I then brick on any action with a path and purge in my hand, and he drops a battleskull and I get vroom vroom'd.
Game 3 (play): I didn't write down my hand here (ugh, I was doing so good ComplexSystems!) but it was something like 2-3 lands and some interaction. But I end up bricking on land or serum visions for 3 draws in a row, he eventually drops a pyromancer and blood moon oh and did turn 1/3 suspend Ancestral Visions. Never showed up for the game.
I felt like I could have won game 2 if I drew any of my stronger card advantage engines, but was happy with the round overall.
Rd 5 vs Jim on 5c tribal zoo.
Jim concedes to me so he can go get dinner at 11:20 or whatever obnoxiously late time it is. Naturally I play versus the air and it is the most amazing interactive game of magic ever seen by no one.
Some general notes: I was hot on 3 jaces, but in a lot of matchups I just decided I would rather try 2. This might have cost me game 2 versus the UR moon deck, since I didn't have as many ways of gaining advantage/jace can win by himself, but against many control matchups I like digging in and trying to drag things out, and against aggro matchups he's not great. I never played versus any of the midrange decks that showed up that day, and I continue to expect the meta to be heavily control/aggro in my meta, I might drop to 2 and add in a fourth bolt/cryptic.
Spirits
2-0 Tron, yay Ambush Viper!
2-0 Bogles, yay Runed Halo lol.
2-1 Storm, lost game 1, Runed Halo game 2, and masses of Counters + Burn game 3.
And I was thinking life was amazing.
Then 0-2 Emeria. The recursion got me. I just ran out of steam.
2-0 Esper Control. Burn + Snaps EOT applies the pressure that we play Red for while Keranos also came in and did his work.
0-2 Dredge....this one simply felt unwinnable with my current configuration of the deck. Seem like a fair statement?
All told, unless I swap out something to handle GW hate, I feel really good with how things are now.
Spirits
Congrats on some good results in tough MU's (tron and bogles)!.
You're correct, your type of list can't expect to win against Dredge without some luck. It's not incorrect to ignore the dredge MU, as it doesn't really get much over 50% post-board even with RIP or Relic. But if your wider meta also has other GY decks, or you have Dredge every single week, then I can see wanting to include grave-hate.
I don't like running Grave Hate since the printing of Azcanta and the adoption of logic knot, here is how I used to board against dredge without GY hate; (from my pre-banlist list).
+1 Detention Sphere
+2 Runed Halo
+1 Staticaster
+1 Celestial Purge
+1 Settle the Wreckage
+1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
-3 Bolt
-1 logic knot
-1 negate
-1 gearhulk
-1 Cryptic
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
with nahiri sidelined and some number of cryptics being cut to make room for jace gearhulk is less appealing
right now im trying out the 2 jace 1 gideon (AoZ) split to see how that works out. though i am not averse to trying out a jace/nahiri split.
it may end up that just playing 3 jaces is the best route, but i like having a little spice in my lists. nahiri was nice for the main deck enchantment removal, and was a little incentive to play wonky value creatures (gearhulk, jace VP, inferno titan, thundermaw, etc).
as for the dredge matchup, im in favor of just leaning on exile effects. 0oSunnYo0 hit it on the head. we rely on our own GY more than we used to, so its really hard to justify GY hate.
anger of the gods, d-sphere, settle the wreckage are good options. celestial purge is particularly well positioned at the moment (im actually thinking of going up to 3)
i think there is an argument to be made for settle the wreckage main deck. possibly in place of a verdict. being able to hold up mana AND exile threats is a world of difference. though i admit i havent played with the card much so my assessment of its downside is suspect.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I still think Gearhulk is a fine card, but I think if I play gearhulk again it will be with 2x main-deck copies, 2x Clique, 2x Resto, 4x Cryptic, 2x Glimmer, 3x FoR, and Spreading Seas. Like a "Big Flash style. I don't think he's the best finisher for a Jace deck.
I'm still finding Secure the Wastes amazing. Protect Jace, attack Jace, win the game. It does all 3.
The 4CMC slot has felt fine at 8, and I'm on 25 lands so I don't feel greedy.
My current list is here;
https://www.topdecked.me/decks/35abff77-5284-4040-90aa-949063092097
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URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
jace is card advantage/selection, and a 4 mana play. so the reasonable approach is to cut similar, albeit less powerful, effects. namely sphinx's rev and cryptic commands.
torrential gearhulk is a pretty sweet value card. some lists were cutting a snapcaster for a gearhulk, and others weren't. lists were pretty unanimously playing the full 4 cryptics.
the best gearhulk plays involved either getting gearhulk with nahiri, or just end-stepping gearhulk, into cryptic command. this was largely due to the 6 cmc cost being the same as snap + cryptic but with the added benefit of a 5/6 body.
no nahiri, and less cryptics in the deck means the likelihood of achieving those high value plays is lower than it was before, and warrants going back up to the full 4 snaps (if you werent already)
in light of this i believe it is harder to justify a deck slot for gearhulk, which would otherwise be used for some other piece of cheaper interaction
thats my reasoning at the moment.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)i personally dont see a place for gearhulk at the moment, but ill keep an open mind.
ive entertained the idea of Entreat the Angels, but i dont think im ready to let go of secure the waste. i havent seen/heard of any successful attempts at building a miracle shell. mostly just gimmicky attempts, and there might just be too many moving parts to get it to work. you need a lot of jaces, ways to set up the top of your deck, and instant speed draw. so you need like 3-4 jaces, opt, and cards like Telling Time. not exactly the best place to be.
if you are just running a single entreat for value...i guess thats feasible. however it needs to provide value beyond whatever card its replacing. it would be pretty sweet if it worked out.
i dont see it so much as building around jace, but rather that it is just a super powerful effect that we want to include in our deck. the cost of that inclusion is addressing our spell base to make sure we have the highest chance of having a mana efficient play at each point in the curve.
it may end up that we can support playing the full set of cryptics and some number of jaces, but it is equally likely that it would make the deck too top heavy. i personally tend to lean towards less power but more consistent deck building choices.
check out the lists from the recent mtgo modern challenge:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-challenge-2018-02-25
look at 4th and 11th place. 4th place guy cut bolts entirely (crazy right?)
11th place is Ben Nikolich, a talented jeskai pilot on the scg tour. he streams on twitch as BenPatNik (thanks to 0oSunnYo0 for pointing that out). the video of him playing through the modern challenge is up if you want to see the deck in action.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Was wondering what the Grim Lavamancer is used for?
His comment on no bolts was 'didn't really miss them' if things like humans, infect or vizier become more prevalent and you want bolts in the 60 he suggests cutting 1-2 lyze and 1 cryptic. I suspect the Grim Lavamancer SB plan is in place partly because of the decision to run no bolts.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Search for Azcanta
2 Sulfur Falls
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Steam Vents
3 Hallowed Fountain
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Plains
3 Island
2 Spell Snare
3 Lightning Helix
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
4 Path to Exile
1 Negate
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
So this is what I am currently experimenting with. After playing in a Super FNM the other day against a few different deck styles I was impressed with how well Geist lines up against rival Jace and BBE. Then in side boarding you would have the supreme verdicts and whatnot.. (Although possible to take out sphinx's rev and possibly something else to include 2 supreme verdict however I really want to stay away from too many 4 drops if I can help it
Okay so at first I would have totally agreed.. But I think what happens is that sitting on the amount of 4 drops now keeps the deck kind of at a plateau in the midrange portion of the game
.. Realistically we aren't going to ultimate jace for a win and if our card advantage is only bringing responses to their threats they will eventually overpower us.. (by this I mean, Jace 0 ability to brainstorm getting us Path to exiles and lands does nothing to close the game..)
So we need something hard hitting to finish things off; be it a torrential gear hulk/geist/vendilion/secure the wastes etc.. and I think that torrential is the best at doing so given that he is at instant speed, gets a resource from the graveyard, and is large enough to not die to a bolt or fatal push like vendilion clique does
that is what I have gotten over the past few weeks
Is Gearhulk the answer? I don't know, but I do get what you are saying.
Spirits
secure has been a preferable finisher because it can be used in the early/mid game for blockers or pressure, while also being flashbacked if needed.
gearhulk is a fine beatstick, but doesnt have evasion or innate protection like hexproof. so your mileage may vary.
elspeth suns champ is a common finisher found in the sideboards, and is brought in for basically any matchup that isnt super fast.
if you are playing the more controlly versions of the list, just sitting around continously brainstorming is a pretty typical scenario. getting a full hand that has answers to their next 5+ potential plays while you apply savage 2/1 snapcaster beats is sorta what you sign up for with this deck.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Thats so perfect lol.
Spirits
I have been of the mindset that 24 lands is not necessary like many belive and this list confirms that hypothesis. I play 22 in my list and it is just fine for me.
i think 3 colonnade is also perfect seems the pilot believed this as well.
Anyways interesting list with 3 mind sculptors
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/962371#paper
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
Take out the one of revelation and put in a steel of the god head. It has won me so many games on my geist and even queller.
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
playing 24 lands is the cuttoff if you want to reliably reach 4 mana on turn 4. having access to cantrips like serum/opt alters the math somewhat, but just keep that in mind when deciding to shave lands.
ill be interested to see if anyone can crack some sort of midrangy flash build. resto angel seems well positioned.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)