T2 with Lieutenant and Hierarch from Vial (both with a counter).
...While the Miracle trigger is on the stack, the card itself (Terminus, Entreat the Angels, etc.) is in opponent's hand. So with Vial set on 2, if opponent lets you resolve the ability, you can put Kitesail Freebooter, Meddling Mage or Gaddock Teeg and probably disrupt the spell.
Great play report!
Do I understand that you cast Lieutenant, then respond to her ETB trigger by Vialing in Hierarch, and that way both creatures get +1/+1 counters? Does Lieutenant trigger on an empty board? I did not know about this interaction, seems pretty relevant.
Didn't see the Miracle in-hand steal or block move either. Seems to me you've got a pretty firm grasp of the mechanics of this deck, my thanks for sharing your insight.
As far as I understand it, if you cast Lieutenant, then with the ETB trigger on the stack you vial in another creature and they see each other coming in. It's a trick I only learnt recently, but the more +1/+1 counters the merrier!
Didn't know about the Miracles tech either, that might come in handy if UW Miracles becomes a thing.
Do I understand that you cast Lieutenant, then respond to her ETB trigger by Vialing in Hierarch, and that way both creatures get +1/+1 counters? Does Lieutenant trigger on an empty board? I did not know about this interaction, seems pretty relevant.
Didn't see the Miracle in-hand steal or block move either. Seems to me you've got a pretty firm grasp of the mechanics of this deck, my thanks for sharing your insight.
It's as you say :
Cast Lieutenant. It resolves, then its triggered ability goes on the stack on an empty board. Hold priority*.
Activate Vial and put Hierarch (or any other Human) on the battlefield. This triggers Lieutenant's second ability.
The second trigger resolves first, and Lieutenant receives a counter.
Then the first trigger resolves, and Hierarch (or else) receives a counter.
* About priority : It's really important that you don't ask your opponent if he wants to do something while Lieutenant's first ability is on the stack. If you do, it's assumed that you give priority to the opponent. If he does nothing, you can't activate Vial before the ability resolves.
Because of the « hold priority » restriction, I think it's important you only do this trick while opponent is tapped out, empty handed, or otherwise you know he can't disrupt your play.
Take note also that this trick works well with Humans with Flash, like Izzet Staticaster and Heron's Grace Champion. At any time, you can use Vial to put Lieutenant on the battlefield, and then use your mana to cast a Human at instant speed while Lieutenant's ETB ability is on the stack. Works well too with two Vials.
I'm not 100% sure how to intercept a Miracle during the draw step. I'll ask the question in the appropriate forum, and come back with the answer.
Do I understand that you cast Lieutenant, then respond to her ETB trigger by Vialing in Hierarch, and that way both creatures get +1/+1 counters? Does Lieutenant trigger on an empty board? I did not know about this interaction, seems pretty relevant.
Didn't see the Miracle in-hand steal or block move either. Seems to me you've got a pretty firm grasp of the mechanics of this deck, my thanks for sharing your insight.
It's as you say :
Cast Lieutenant. It resolves, then its triggered ability goes on the stack on an empty board. Hold priority*.
Activate Vial and put Hierarch (or any other Human) on the battlefield. This triggers Lieutenant's second ability.
The second trigger resolves first, and Lieutenant receives a counter.
Then the first trigger resolves, and Hierarch (or else) receives a counter.
* About priority : It's really important that you don't ask your opponent if he wants to do something while Lieutenant's first ability is on the stack. If you do, it's assumed that you give priority to the opponent. If he does nothing, you can't activate Vial before the ability resolves.
I'm not 100% sure how to intercept a Miracle during the draw step. I'll ask the question in the appropriate forum, and come back with the answer.
Miracle thing is like this.
When the player draws a Miracle card as his first draw of the turn, he can reveal that card and then the Miracle trigger goes on the stack. When this trigger resolves, it allows that player to cast said spell for the Miracle cost.
You just have to respond to the Miracle trigger with Freebooter/Meddling Mage/Teeg to stop it before he can play the spell.
What I don't know is the interaction between this situation with Freebooter (getting the Miracle card out of their hand) and they killing Freebooter still before the Miracle trigger. Does the game see the Miracle card on their hand as the one that caused the trigger or it is a new card, since it changed zones?
Well... I asked the question here, and got an answer.
So yes, while the Miracle trigger is still on the stack, you can use Vial to put Freebooter, Meddling Mage or Gaddock Teeg on the battlefield and intercept the card before it is ever played for its Miracle cost. Unless our creature is removed at instant speed before the Miracle ability resolves, there's nothing opponent can do to cast the card for its Miracle cost this turn. Removing it at sorcery speed later means we’ve changed phases, the stack is empty, and the Miracle ability is long past. If opponent makes the mistake of letting Freebooter fully resolves before removing it at instant speed, the card is not the same object and the Miracle won't operate (but this should not happen).
I think the choice of Thalia, Heretic Cathar is good for now. Maybe two would be better. Because of Bloodbraid Elf and Angel Tokens (and Field of Ruin, any other nonbasic land, any potential blocker, etc.).
For SB, I preferred to not include Grafdigger’s Cage. It seems to me that Gaddock Teeg and Anafenza, the Foremost can do the job against Collected Company and creatures from the graveyard. Gaddock Teeg is also very good against Jace, Miracles and Tron. Anafenza is good too against Living End, Burn and any Lightning Bolt or Anger of the Gods decks (including Hollow One, as it resists its removals and prevent Bloodghast from coming back). She can also be good against Shadow, to put Street Wraiths and the like in exile, and screw Delve a bit (Tasigur, Gurmag, etc.). I'll only miss Cage against Flashback and Snapcaster Mage, but then I have Dire Fleet Daredevil for that purpose.
I've watched some videos about 5c Humans, and was surprised by how many « bad » plays I noticed. Or were they only in my mind? What are the common plays for you in these situations?
Turn 1 : Champion or Hierarch?
I almost always see Hierarch played on turn 1, instead of Champion. Most of the time because the player wants to ramp into Mantis Rider on turn 2. To me, that's the wrong call. Playing Champion, then Hierarch on turn 2 (even with an unspent mana), will result in the same attack for 3 on turn 2. If opponent has a removal, I much prefer it be spent on an early threatening Champion than Hierarch or Rider. If it's Path to Exile, I'll ramp anyway. And the argument that Rider dodges Fatal Push is wrong. It's true in a sense, but Hierarch is not immune to it, and if Hierarch dies to Push, then Rider can't be cast on turn 2. Hierarch and Rider are more precious in the mid and long game. Playing Hierarch first, then Rider, then Champion on turn 3 means the Champion will be missing 2 counters, and more vulnerable to Electrolyze, Kolaghan's Command, Collective Brutality, etc. If I can get Champion to 3/3 by turn 3, it also means its only one counter away of being too fat for Lightning Bolt and Anger of the Gods. On turn 2, I can also opt to play a 2-drop instead of Hierarch if it matters. Lieutenant can pump Champion to 3/3, and Freebooter, Thalia or Meddling Mage are fine play. I will never want to ramp into a turn 2 Reflector Mage, because the good targets will come later. Conclusion : not Hierarch, if you have Champion.
Turn 1 : Hierarch or Vial?
Again, I often saw Hierarch being the common play on turn 1, instead of Vial. And this, for the sake of ramping into Rider on turn 2. I admit this play is quite seducing. But playing Vial first is more important in my opinion. The odds of Hierarch surviving to turn 2 are slim, as any good players will Bolt the Bird before you untap, if they have a removal. Now, with Vial on turn 1, you can play a 2-drop and activate Vial EOT to play Hierarch and hopefully dodge the removal that way. The rest of the game will anyway be far more easier with Vial already up and running, and Hierarch alive (because opponent will kill your 2-drop instead). If opponent plays an early Blood Moon or Chalice of the Void (because of Simian Spirit Guide), you're in better position with Vial than Hierarch anyway. And Vial with counters is a better protection from counterspells, sweepers and land destruction. Conclusion : Vial first, always, because stronger turns 3-4 are more important than an exciting turn 2.
Turn 2 : Freebooter, Meddling Mage or Thalia?
That one is a bit more tricky. Playing Thalia first may be the best play in almost all matchups. If she dies, the next one you draw won't be a dead card, at least. I saw many players play Meddling Mage first, naming a card and guessing based on the lands in play. This seems very wrong to me. You'll look like a pro if you guessed right, but that's just pure luck, not skills IMHO. A well informed decision, based on Kitesail Freebooter (even if it is removed), is always better. Playing it on turn 2, particularly when opponent is tapped out, is the best play IMHO. At no point in the game will you see more cards in opponent’s hand than on turn 2. Depending on what you see then, you'll know if Meddling Mage or Thalia is the best spell for next turn, and what to name with Meddling Mage for maximum disruption. Conclusion : Freebooter on turn 2, to get intelligence on your enemy before deploying your army.
How do you pilot your Humans deck?
Another trick : Cavern of Souls protects you from Chalice of the Void. Maybe that was obvious for everybody, but I just recently discovered that (and wonder how many matchups I've lost in the past because of my ignorance).
Last week something interesting happened to me that can even be turned out on a trick for us.
I had Vial at 2, my opp was with 2 lands on my turn and I had only Meddling Mage on hand. I decided to wait to Vial it to not expose it to Detention Sphere, since only Veredit would make me lose the game and he would only get to 3 lands on his turn. He played the 3rd land and passed. His EOT, I used the Vial and, seeing I only had one card in hand, he flashed Clique on me. He took my Mage and, luckly, I drew a Lieutenant to still use the Vial trigger.
So, against a deck that has Clique, even if you don't have anything to vial in your hand, it should be good to keep activating the vial anyway to see if they take the bait and play Clique. Even more if your hand is all blanks, since he would have wasted a Clique that later on could get something useful. This won't always work, but if it pays off just one time, it already was worth it.
On another topic, I'll be playing 2 Notion Thiefs on my SB tomorrow. Yesterdey there were 4 Jace decks at my LGS and I'll try to steal some Brainstorms for the lulz
Notion Thief in a meta full of Jace, Faithless Looting and Bedlam Reveler seems quite good. I doubt you want it twice in your SB, however. We have so much things to cover with only 15 cards... what else do you play in your SB and main deck?
Notion Thief in a meta full of Jace, Faithless Looting and Bedlam Reveler seems quite good. I doubt you want it twice in your SB, however. We have so much things to cover with only 15 cards... what else do you play in your SB and main deck?
Maindeck is pretty stock, with only 3 Thalia and 1 Malcontents, 1 Kytheon.
No Izzet Staticaster or Vithian Renegades? I certainly wouldn’t want to have zero solution to Ensnaring Bridge, Affinity, Young Pyromancer and Lingering Souls. Big Thalia is probably worthy of a spot or two in the main deck, IMHO, because it kills haste (Bloodbraid Elf) and reduce the number of blockers to squeeze in more damage (Entreat the Angels, after drawing with Opt at instant speed, is particularly scary), not considering how much she can slow down Grixis Jace and Jund/Temur Bloodbraid Elf (tapping their lands). Flipping Kytheon is exciting, but I'm not sure we provide the right shell for him. We're not particularly a Weenie deck. I've bought 2 the other day, and I think it might have been a mistake....
There are no Affinity/Bridge decks on my LGS, so no need for Renegades. YP and LS are also low on my radar. I've had some weeks without boarding any of them in, so I decided to test some stuff on their slots.
I'd like to fit at least one of big Thalia in the main, but I like the 13th 1 drop. I don't even bother if I don't flip him, but since he has that ability, it's better than the other 1 drops we are not playing already. If we had a better 1 drop, I'd play in that slot.
I think he forgot to test Jace in the deck best suited for him : UW Miracle (because even if he dies right away, a single Brainstorm is enough to put a Miracle on top of the deck and win the game with it). But that's fine anyway for us. Because of Vial and Cavern of Souls, we already have a good matchup vs Control, and Humans also have the tools to fight a top deck Miracle (see above). Full playset of Field of Ruin and Path to Exile may be the only real problem for Humans in UW Miracle Jace, considering we only play a single basic land...
Bloodbraid Elf decks are a bit more worrying, however. According to the article, it's a very hard matchup. And because an Elf playset costs lot less to buy than a single Jace, it won't take much for all the Shadow decks to convert to Jund. I don't know what this means for us, but with Big Thalia to tap the Elf, Baby Thalia to tax Cascade, Meddling Mage to name Maelstrom Pulse or Kolaghan’s Command and Kitesail Freebooter to disrupt their removals, I'm far from desperate.
Please, don't forget to look at my questions above. I got my cards for Humans quite late, and played the deck for real just 2 days ago for the first time. I think I have a pretty good understanding of the deck, and how to pilot it, but I'm not so sure after seeing so many players play differently than I would have.
I've watched some videos about 5c Humans, and was surprised by how many « bad » plays I noticed. Or were they only in my mind? What are the common plays for you in these situations?
Turn 1 : Champion or Hierarch?
Turn 1 : Hierarch or Vial?
Turn 2 : Freebooter, Meddling Mage or Thalia?
Another trick : Cavern of Souls protects you from Chalice of the Void. Maybe that was obvious for everybody, but I just recently discovered that (and wonder how many matchups I've lost in the past because of my ignorance).
I mostly agree but not 100%. When on the play, against almost all opponents it is probably best to lead with Hierarch on T1, if you also have a Thalia, Heretic Cathar in hand--T2 Big Thalia is an amazing disruption play for us. I also think T2 Rider-->swing for 4 with vigilance is a pretty good play in some matches, like say against Affinity maybe.
Last week something interesting happened to me that can even be turned out on a trick for us... even if you don't have anything to vial in your hand, it should be good to keep activating the vial anyway to see if they take the bait and play Clique.
Faking opponents out with dummy Vial activations is just good play, and should always be a part of any Vial player's repertoire. You don't want your opponent to know he should always respond to a Vial activation--keep him guessing!
FWIW, both Cavern and Vial activations get around counterspells, including Chalice of the Void. Spell Queller is pretty good, but other forms of permission are terrible against our deck.
I also tend to play Champ first when I can. But there's always a thought process (Turn 1 sometimes takes more time to decide than Turn 2). Really depends on the rest of the hand and the MU (if known or guessed). VS UW control I'd rather play Champ first so he may deal 2-3 extra damage over the course of the game, while Noble does absolutely nothing in a game where I don't wanna overextend. That's just an example.
I tend to agree many players blindly play Hierarch and it's often suboptimal.
Turn 1 : Hierarch or Vial?
If I can Vial I do so. I don't see where Noble can be a better play here. Never seen anyone run Noble first (game 1 at least).
Turn 2 : Freebooter, Meddling Mage or Thalia?
Thalia can be a way better play than FreeB in many MUs. It can be key VS Living End in order to survive a goldfish, key VS Bogles to screw them asap, and it's a removal magnet VS midrange & control decks, which lets FreeB survive on the board longer afterwards. Thalia is also a better clock (& blocker) than FreeB most of the time.
It also depends on the mana I have access to. I like to have FreeB into Med Mage (or sthg else) within the same turn.
Obviously Med Mage is rarely the right play, never actually seen anyone run it before Thalia. But it can be played before FreeB VS Affinity in order to stop Plating we can't race if the opp's board has several flyers already. Again, just an example.
I believe this Turn 2 play is hard because we miss our last piece of the puzzle in the deck. I consider your plays will change according to the last flex slots you have in your maindeck, or what you bring in post-SB. I remember Noble becomes the right play on Turn 1 when you want to Staticaster on Turn 2 VS a Turn 1 Steel Overseer or Elvish Mystic. Crusader on T2 is also almost game over in the right MU.
Going forward, if Jace and BbElf decks are the new norm, it means more Control and Midrange. Thus more attrition. Kessig Malcontents may not be very good in this new environment, where having more than two Humans on the battlefield will be a challenge. I can see Big Thalia doing a come back on the stock list.
A Thalia duo (Baby and Big) can delay BbElf for 2+ turns, as land #4 and #5 will ETB tapped and land #5 is required to pay the tax. This means we can delay the Elf to turn 6, if opponent manages to not miss a land drop in the first 5 turns (which is not an easy task. Even then, if one of the two Thalia is removed with the Cascade, the other one can block the Elf without dying.
And whether Jace decks go 3 colors or 2 colors + 4 Field of Ruin, it means many nonbasic lands to ETB tapped because of Big Thalia. Many of these decks will rely on tokens to stop Aggro (Timely Reinforcement, Young Pyromancer, Monastery Mentor, Entreat the Angels, Lingering Souls, Secure the Wastes), and Big Thalia will solve that problem for us.
Am I the only one foreseeing this future?
Edit : Big Thalia will also kill any emergence of haste, that will certainly fill the meta because of Jace (Reality Smasher, Mantis Rider, Through the Breach, etc.). The pros can say what they want, I don't see Humans as a dead deck, far from it. We just have to adapt!
Hey guys, Jund player here, this deck didn't exist the last time I was into magic/modern. Can you give me a quick rundown on your matchup vs Jund, and any advice for me as the Jund player on how you approach the matchup, the key cards, and mistakes many Jund players make against you?
I have no experience againt Jund featuring Bloodbraid Elf. But I imagine the matchup to go like this :
Aether Vial will overload your spot removals in the first 3-5 turns. Then, because we play 37 threats, our top deck will continue to push this advantage in our favor. And thanks to Horizon Canopy, we will even translate some of our lands into more Humans.
That’s on the draw. If Jund is on the play, Humans may be one turn too late for everything. Or maybe not...
Edit: So now you know what to target with Thoughseize and Inquisition ok Kozilek, in the hope that the above mentioned nightmare scenario doesn’t happen.
2-0 against a standard deck
sided out my Meddling Mages because I didn't know what to name, lol
2-1 against Skred Red
Got lucky on G2 with a highly aggro hand and G3 had 3 Meddling Mages blocking cards in his hand (I knew from a Freebooter) and his Bridge couldn't stop me from attacking
2-0 against Counters Company
G1 won with 2 Reflector Mages, G2 won with 1 Reflector Mage + aggro beats
ID with Jund. Friend of mine, wanted to leave early and offered the ID. I knew he was on Jund and that it's a really hard matchup, so I agreed.
It's strange, I never experienced Jund as a hard MU. They run no wrath so it's already better than Gx Tron, GR Valakut or UWx control. I keep on testing against it (even versions with Lingering Souls in order to stop Mantis) and I keep winning most of the time.
Post-SB I cut Vials cause they're not as good (it's already painful to draw Champ, Noble and lands in the midgame). Ref Mage isn't very good as well. Humans can grind in MUs where the opp mostly does 1-for-1s. To me we're slightly favored.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
It's strange, I never experienced Jund as a hard MU. They run no wrath so it's already better than Gx Tron, GR Valakut or UWx control. I keep on testing against it (even versions with Lingering Souls in order to stop Mantis) and I keep winning most of the time.
Post-SB I cut Vials cause they're not as good (it's already painful to draw Champ, Noble and lands in the midgame). Ref Mage isn't very good as well. Humans can grind in MUs where the opp mostly does 1-for-1s. To me we're slightly favored.
I agree with you. Biggest problem vs Jund is when they play Liliana on an empty board, or with just one Human, and we don't have a Mantis Rider ready to deal with her next turn. Two activations of Liliana is very painful.
As far as I understand it, if you cast Lieutenant, then with the ETB trigger on the stack you vial in another creature and they see each other coming in. It's a trick I only learnt recently, but the more +1/+1 counters the merrier!
Didn't know about the Miracles tech either, that might come in handy if UW Miracles becomes a thing.
It's as you say :
Because of the « hold priority » restriction, I think it's important you only do this trick while opponent is tapped out, empty handed, or otherwise you know he can't disrupt your play.
Take note also that this trick works well with Humans with Flash, like Izzet Staticaster and Heron's Grace Champion. At any time, you can use Vial to put Lieutenant on the battlefield, and then use your mana to cast a Human at instant speed while Lieutenant's ETB ability is on the stack. Works well too with two Vials.
I'm not 100% sure how to intercept a Miracle during the draw step. I'll ask the question in the appropriate forum, and come back with the answer.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
Miracle thing is like this.
When the player draws a Miracle card as his first draw of the turn, he can reveal that card and then the Miracle trigger goes on the stack. When this trigger resolves, it allows that player to cast said spell for the Miracle cost.
You just have to respond to the Miracle trigger with Freebooter/Meddling Mage/Teeg to stop it before he can play the spell.
What I don't know is the interaction between this situation with Freebooter (getting the Miracle card out of their hand) and they killing Freebooter still before the Miracle trigger. Does the game see the Miracle card on their hand as the one that caused the trigger or it is a new card, since it changed zones?
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
So yes, while the Miracle trigger is still on the stack, you can use Vial to put Freebooter, Meddling Mage or Gaddock Teeg on the battlefield and intercept the card before it is ever played for its Miracle cost. Unless our creature is removed at instant speed before the Miracle ability resolves, there's nothing opponent can do to cast the card for its Miracle cost this turn. Removing it at sorcery speed later means we’ve changed phases, the stack is empty, and the Miracle ability is long past. If opponent makes the mistake of letting Freebooter fully resolves before removing it at instant speed, the card is not the same object and the Miracle won't operate (but this should not happen).
I think the choice of Thalia, Heretic Cathar is good for now. Maybe two would be better. Because of Bloodbraid Elf and Angel Tokens (and Field of Ruin, any other nonbasic land, any potential blocker, etc.).
For SB, I preferred to not include Grafdigger’s Cage. It seems to me that Gaddock Teeg and Anafenza, the Foremost can do the job against Collected Company and creatures from the graveyard. Gaddock Teeg is also very good against Jace, Miracles and Tron. Anafenza is good too against Living End, Burn and any Lightning Bolt or Anger of the Gods decks (including Hollow One, as it resists its removals and prevent Bloodghast from coming back). She can also be good against Shadow, to put Street Wraiths and the like in exile, and screw Delve a bit (Tasigur, Gurmag, etc.). I'll only miss Cage against Flashback and Snapcaster Mage, but then I have Dire Fleet Daredevil for that purpose.
What do you think?
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
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and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
Turn 1 : Champion or Hierarch?
I almost always see Hierarch played on turn 1, instead of Champion. Most of the time because the player wants to ramp into Mantis Rider on turn 2. To me, that's the wrong call. Playing Champion, then Hierarch on turn 2 (even with an unspent mana), will result in the same attack for 3 on turn 2. If opponent has a removal, I much prefer it be spent on an early threatening Champion than Hierarch or Rider. If it's Path to Exile, I'll ramp anyway. And the argument that Rider dodges Fatal Push is wrong. It's true in a sense, but Hierarch is not immune to it, and if Hierarch dies to Push, then Rider can't be cast on turn 2. Hierarch and Rider are more precious in the mid and long game. Playing Hierarch first, then Rider, then Champion on turn 3 means the Champion will be missing 2 counters, and more vulnerable to Electrolyze, Kolaghan's Command, Collective Brutality, etc. If I can get Champion to 3/3 by turn 3, it also means its only one counter away of being too fat for Lightning Bolt and Anger of the Gods. On turn 2, I can also opt to play a 2-drop instead of Hierarch if it matters. Lieutenant can pump Champion to 3/3, and Freebooter, Thalia or Meddling Mage are fine play. I will never want to ramp into a turn 2 Reflector Mage, because the good targets will come later. Conclusion : not Hierarch, if you have Champion.
Turn 1 : Hierarch or Vial?
Again, I often saw Hierarch being the common play on turn 1, instead of Vial. And this, for the sake of ramping into Rider on turn 2. I admit this play is quite seducing. But playing Vial first is more important in my opinion. The odds of Hierarch surviving to turn 2 are slim, as any good players will Bolt the Bird before you untap, if they have a removal. Now, with Vial on turn 1, you can play a 2-drop and activate Vial EOT to play Hierarch and hopefully dodge the removal that way. The rest of the game will anyway be far more easier with Vial already up and running, and Hierarch alive (because opponent will kill your 2-drop instead). If opponent plays an early Blood Moon or Chalice of the Void (because of Simian Spirit Guide), you're in better position with Vial than Hierarch anyway. And Vial with counters is a better protection from counterspells, sweepers and land destruction. Conclusion : Vial first, always, because stronger turns 3-4 are more important than an exciting turn 2.
Turn 2 : Freebooter, Meddling Mage or Thalia?
That one is a bit more tricky. Playing Thalia first may be the best play in almost all matchups. If she dies, the next one you draw won't be a dead card, at least. I saw many players play Meddling Mage first, naming a card and guessing based on the lands in play. This seems very wrong to me. You'll look like a pro if you guessed right, but that's just pure luck, not skills IMHO. A well informed decision, based on Kitesail Freebooter (even if it is removed), is always better. Playing it on turn 2, particularly when opponent is tapped out, is the best play IMHO. At no point in the game will you see more cards in opponent’s hand than on turn 2. Depending on what you see then, you'll know if Meddling Mage or Thalia is the best spell for next turn, and what to name with Meddling Mage for maximum disruption. Conclusion : Freebooter on turn 2, to get intelligence on your enemy before deploying your army.
How do you pilot your Humans deck?
Another trick : Cavern of Souls protects you from Chalice of the Void. Maybe that was obvious for everybody, but I just recently discovered that (and wonder how many matchups I've lost in the past because of my ignorance).
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
I had Vial at 2, my opp was with 2 lands on my turn and I had only Meddling Mage on hand. I decided to wait to Vial it to not expose it to Detention Sphere, since only Veredit would make me lose the game and he would only get to 3 lands on his turn. He played the 3rd land and passed. His EOT, I used the Vial and, seeing I only had one card in hand, he flashed Clique on me. He took my Mage and, luckly, I drew a Lieutenant to still use the Vial trigger.
So, against a deck that has Clique, even if you don't have anything to vial in your hand, it should be good to keep activating the vial anyway to see if they take the bait and play Clique. Even more if your hand is all blanks, since he would have wasted a Clique that later on could get something useful. This won't always work, but if it pays off just one time, it already was worth it.
On another topic, I'll be playing 2 Notion Thiefs on my SB tomorrow. Yesterdey there were 4 Jace decks at my LGS and I'll try to steal some Brainstorms for the lulz
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
Maindeck is pretty stock, with only 3 Thalia and 1 Malcontents, 1 Kytheon.
SB I have:
2 Cannonist
2 Teeg
2 Notion Thiefs
3 Dire Fleet Daredevil
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Heron's Grace Champion
1 Dismember
1 Hostage Taker
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Probably 2 Notion Thiefs is excessive, but I'm just going for the lulz. I'm expecting blue decks to be the majority tomorrow
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
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I'd like to fit at least one of big Thalia in the main, but I like the 13th 1 drop. I don't even bother if I don't flip him, but since he has that ability, it's better than the other 1 drops we are not playing already. If we had a better 1 drop, I'd play in that slot.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
I think he forgot to test Jace in the deck best suited for him : UW Miracle (because even if he dies right away, a single Brainstorm is enough to put a Miracle on top of the deck and win the game with it). But that's fine anyway for us. Because of Vial and Cavern of Souls, we already have a good matchup vs Control, and Humans also have the tools to fight a top deck Miracle (see above). Full playset of Field of Ruin and Path to Exile may be the only real problem for Humans in UW Miracle Jace, considering we only play a single basic land...
Bloodbraid Elf decks are a bit more worrying, however. According to the article, it's a very hard matchup. And because an Elf playset costs lot less to buy than a single Jace, it won't take much for all the Shadow decks to convert to Jund. I don't know what this means for us, but with Big Thalia to tap the Elf, Baby Thalia to tax Cascade, Meddling Mage to name Maelstrom Pulse or Kolaghan’s Command and Kitesail Freebooter to disrupt their removals, I'm far from desperate.
Please, don't forget to look at my questions above. I got my cards for Humans quite late, and played the deck for real just 2 days ago for the first time. I think I have a pretty good understanding of the deck, and how to pilot it, but I'm not so sure after seeing so many players play differently than I would have.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
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Faking opponents out with dummy Vial activations is just good play, and should always be a part of any Vial player's repertoire. You don't want your opponent to know he should always respond to a Vial activation--keep him guessing!
FWIW, both Cavern and Vial activations get around counterspells, including Chalice of the Void. Spell Queller is pretty good, but other forms of permission are terrible against our deck.
I also tend to play Champ first when I can. But there's always a thought process (Turn 1 sometimes takes more time to decide than Turn 2). Really depends on the rest of the hand and the MU (if known or guessed). VS UW control I'd rather play Champ first so he may deal 2-3 extra damage over the course of the game, while Noble does absolutely nothing in a game where I don't wanna overextend. That's just an example.
I tend to agree many players blindly play Hierarch and it's often suboptimal.
If I can Vial I do so. I don't see where Noble can be a better play here. Never seen anyone run Noble first (game 1 at least).
Thalia can be a way better play than FreeB in many MUs. It can be key VS Living End in order to survive a goldfish, key VS Bogles to screw them asap, and it's a removal magnet VS midrange & control decks, which lets FreeB survive on the board longer afterwards. Thalia is also a better clock (& blocker) than FreeB most of the time.
It also depends on the mana I have access to. I like to have FreeB into Med Mage (or sthg else) within the same turn.
Obviously Med Mage is rarely the right play, never actually seen anyone run it before Thalia. But it can be played before FreeB VS Affinity in order to stop Plating we can't race if the opp's board has several flyers already. Again, just an example.
I believe this Turn 2 play is hard because we miss our last piece of the puzzle in the deck. I consider your plays will change according to the last flex slots you have in your maindeck, or what you bring in post-SB. I remember Noble becomes the right play on Turn 1 when you want to Staticaster on Turn 2 VS a Turn 1 Steel Overseer or Elvish Mystic. Crusader on T2 is also almost game over in the right MU.
A Thalia duo (Baby and Big) can delay BbElf for 2+ turns, as land #4 and #5 will ETB tapped and land #5 is required to pay the tax. This means we can delay the Elf to turn 6, if opponent manages to not miss a land drop in the first 5 turns (which is not an easy task. Even then, if one of the two Thalia is removed with the Cascade, the other one can block the Elf without dying.
And whether Jace decks go 3 colors or 2 colors + 4 Field of Ruin, it means many nonbasic lands to ETB tapped because of Big Thalia. Many of these decks will rely on tokens to stop Aggro (Timely Reinforcement, Young Pyromancer, Monastery Mentor, Entreat the Angels, Lingering Souls, Secure the Wastes), and Big Thalia will solve that problem for us.
Am I the only one foreseeing this future?
Edit : Big Thalia will also kill any emergence of haste, that will certainly fill the meta because of Jace (Reality Smasher, Mantis Rider, Through the Breach, etc.). The pros can say what they want, I don't see Humans as a dead deck, far from it. We just have to adapt!
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
I have no experience againt Jund featuring Bloodbraid Elf. But I imagine the matchup to go like this :
Aether Vial will overload your spot removals in the first 3-5 turns. Then, because we play 37 threats, our top deck will continue to push this advantage in our favor. And thanks to Horizon Canopy, we will even translate some of our lands into more Humans.
Jund will spend its early removals (Fatal Push, Lightning Bolt) on Champion of the Parish for good reasons. Kitesail Freebooter will take away the next one and Meddling Mage will name Kolaghan’s Command or Maelstrom Pulse to make things worse.
Thalia, Heretic Cathar will dramatically slow your progression. And when you’ll finally untap with 4 lands to cast Bloodbraid Elf, we’ll activate Vial to tax/deny your Cascade with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben... and prevent the Elf from attacking.
You’ll try to stabilize with Tarmogoyf, but by this time Champion of the Parish or Thalia's Lieutenant will outsize it and/or we’ll bounce your blocker with Reflector Mage, or fly above it and continue to attack your life or Lilianna.
That’s on the draw. If Jund is on the play, Humans may be one turn too late for everything. Or maybe not...
Edit: So now you know what to target with Thoughseize and Inquisition ok Kozilek, in the hope that the above mentioned nightmare scenario doesn’t happen.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
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and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
2-0 against a standard deck
sided out my Meddling Mages because I didn't know what to name, lol
2-1 against Skred Red
Got lucky on G2 with a highly aggro hand and G3 had 3 Meddling Mages blocking cards in his hand (I knew from a Freebooter) and his Bridge couldn't stop me from attacking
2-0 against Counters Company
G1 won with 2 Reflector Mages, G2 won with 1 Reflector Mage + aggro beats
ID with Jund. Friend of mine, wanted to leave early and offered the ID. I knew he was on Jund and that it's a really hard matchup, so I agreed.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
Post-SB I cut Vials cause they're not as good (it's already painful to draw Champ, Noble and lands in the midgame). Ref Mage isn't very good as well. Humans can grind in MUs where the opp mostly does 1-for-1s. To me we're slightly favored.
I agree with you. Biggest problem vs Jund is when they play Liliana on an empty board, or with just one Human, and we don't have a Mantis Rider ready to deal with her next turn. Two activations of Liliana is very painful.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.