Definitely prefer MTGO. I play paper magic with my girlfriend (and have a ton of cards from when I had the eBay store open) and *could* play at a LGS if I didn't have to work nights, but with MTGO I can acquire the cards I want for a deck almost instantly, have a deck built in minutes, and be playing with it immediately thereafter. No muss, no fuss, just playing games now. Plus I don't need more than four of any one card. It's great!
it's funny though how boosters go for 4 bux online, making a box 144. in real life you can easily get boosters and boxes 30% or less compared to the online counterpart, and yet the paper cards are worth more.
booster pack comparison.
cheaper$booster means more value card. (paper)
more$booster means cheaper value card. (online)
the difference cash value wise from paper to online.
i will say if boxes were reduced in price to what i can get in real life, i would switch to mtgo in a heartbeat and so would tons of people. but i can't justify paying full retail price for a box when i can get it Completely cheaper box in a simple google search, not even trying for a good deal. (im not advertising, and i hope this won't flag me )
but yeah, it sucks cause id love to draft any second of the day and the availability of drafting older sets is also fun, as in person that's hardly going to happen.
as for which to play depends on your life style. us with needy wives or night jobs prevent fnm's, and if you enjoy magic, fnm's are something you don't wanna miss(usually).
i have my fnm's nights and pay full retail for my booster for the experience of going out an having a good time doing the draft, but when i buy my boxes i would die if i had to pay full booster price cause it gets really expensive. (buying a couple boxes per expansion adds up +fat packs and then fnm's.)
so thats why i stick to paper, if things were cheaper, id go online.
The reason is there is no need for retailers online since WOTC just sells them direct. If they sold boosters for less than MSRP that would only work if there was no redemption. Without redemption they would be free to sell boosters for any price those chose since it would not affect the paper market in any way or "devalue" the paper boosters.
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PureMTGO MTGOTraders - Coupon mtgsallypaypal for 8% off orders paid for with paypal. MTGO Hotlist! - Pays more than bots for singles. CapeFearGames - Coupon mtgsally for 5% off entire order. Orders ship same day if order placed before 3pm EST M-F. Do not stack with other coupons please.
Paying extra 20% on paper cards for MTGOTraders credits.
imo the client is quite poor, it's clunky and tedious, the setup is garbled, basically it is near the opposite of the intuitive and elegant way you play by hand, on a table. I think they could've done much better with how much money they rake in, the interface is like a 5$ demo program.
it's funny though how boosters go for 4 bux online, making a box 144. in real life you can easily get boosters and boxes 30% or less compared to the online counterpart, and yet the paper cards are worth more.
booster pack comparison.
cheaper$booster means more value card. (paper)
more$booster means cheaper value card. (online)
the difference cash value wise from paper to online.
i will say if boxes were reduced in price to what i can get in real life, i would switch to mtgo in a heartbeat and so would tons of people. but i can't justify paying full retail price for a box when i can get it Completely cheaper box in a simple google search, not even trying for a good deal. (im not advertising, and i hope this won't flag me )
but yeah, it sucks cause id love to draft any second of the day and the availability of drafting older sets is also fun, as in person that's hardly going to happen.
as for which to play depends on your life style. us with needy wives or night jobs prevent fnm's, and if you enjoy magic, fnm's are something you don't wanna miss(usually).
i have my fnm's nights and pay full retail for my booster for the experience of going out an having a good time doing the draft, but when i buy my boxes i would die if i had to pay full booster price cause it gets really expensive. (buying a couple boxes per expansion adds up +fat packs and then fnm's.)
so thats why i stick to paper, if things were cheaper, id go online.
Boosters aren't "really" $4 a piece online. Sure, that is the price at the store, but if you go to any of the bots, your going to probably pay somewhere between 3.40-3.70 per pack for current stuff (M11, scars) and obviously more for the out of print stuff.
A paper box is going to be $100. I just checked right now -- bots are selling scars packs @ 3.60, so that'll be about $130.
Ok - so I'm sure you'll say "that's still 30% more than paper" - and it is. However, you need to take into account that you can draft with the packs 24/7. Instead of just opening packs, you can actually apply the additional $30 as an entertainment cost and take whatever packs you can win as a bonus.
If you draft with your 36 packs, you have entry to roughly 11 drafts. If you can even do ok at all in drafting, you'll make your $30 back right there and if you can draft well, you'll actually make money on the deal. If you win ONE 8-4 in 11 tries, you've made the $30 back.
If you draft with your 36 packs, you have entry to roughly 11 drafts. If you can even do ok at all in drafting, you'll make your $30 back right there and if you can draft well, you'll actually make money on the deal. If you win ONE 8-4 in 11 tries, you've made the $30 back.
The math is a little wrong since you also have to pay 2 tickets per draft. But the idea is spot-on. You will get a ton of entertainment value drafting (unless you have a lot of friends that you can share/bust open packs with).
The thread title and content are pretty misleading.
I've made a bit of money investing in mtgo, basically laying down cash on 500 tix at some point last year, and buying/sell singles at what I believe to be the high/low points. Before the next constructed season begins I'll probably be increasing my initial investment to 2000 tix.
Biggest winners being Jace TMS @ 35 tix, and Twilight Mire at 6 tix.
Actually playing though? Very little chance to make money. If you are breaking even you're doing well.
The thread title and content are pretty misleading.
I've made a bit of money investing in mtgo, basically laying down cash on 500 tix at some point last year, and buying/sell singles at what I believe to be the high/low points. Before the next constructed season begins I'll probably be increasing my initial investment to 2000 tix.
Biggest winners being Jace TMS @ 35 tix, and Twilight Mire at 6 tix.
Actually playing though? Very little chance to make money. If you are breaking even you're doing well.
Jace is not 35 tix. It's closer to 80-100 tix. Vengevine and Primeval Titan are in the upper 30's. However, most cards are valued at 10-40% of their paper equivalent.
Going infinite in limited formats is next to impossible. If you play a lot of constructed and are good, it is possible to go infinite.
Jace is not 35 tix. It's closer to 80-100 tix. Vengevine and Primeval Titan are in the upper 30's. However, most cards are valued at 10-40% of their paper equivalent.
Going infinite in limited formats is next to impossible. If you play a lot of constructed and are good, it is possible to go infinite.
I think he meant the price he bought them at.
Mtgo drafting is great for casual players getting more for their money. I have draft SOM 4322 about 10 times for a little under 20 bucks. I made playsets of everything I need and sold the rest. especially when som boosters were 3 tix a pack life was good.
It's hard to gather people to play paper (space/schedules are an issue)
It's easier for me to homebrew decks online. I can write a list up make the deck, spend probably a fraction of the time /effort it would take for me to make it in paper. And I get to play with it right away and throw it out if it wasn't very good.
About the booster thing
yeah you can get "in print" stuff a little cheaper from bots and such, but also a lot of the online retailers that cater to the online game also usually offer boosters of older/not in print sets that are pretty cheap.
It doesn't matter much though, you should just buy the cards you want (especially for online) there is no *point* in owning more than 4 of any given card.
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I just want people who redraft to admit this:
"I can't draft objectively unless I am able to guarantee that I receive at least 3 rares. I am also better than most average/new players so I want to make sure that I get the best rares and they end up with worse ones. I care more about the monetary value of cards than actually playing the game for decent prizes."
The thread title and content are pretty misleading.
I've made a bit of money investing in mtgo, basically laying down cash on 500 tix at some point last year, and buying/sell singles at what I believe to be the high/low points. Before the next constructed season begins I'll probably be increasing my initial investment to 2000 tix.
Biggest winners being Jace TMS @ 35 tix, and Twilight Mire at 6 tix.
Actually playing though? Very little chance to make money. If you are breaking even you're doing well.
A brag post from a speculator. The supply of SHM/EVE cards on MTGO is painfully thin. Anyone who wanted to play extended last season either needed to have thier cards or buy them from people who drove up the price. The prices were not reflective of the actual play demand (heck they rarely seem to be these days).
Back when extended was 7 blocks you could fill out an extended deck for $50-60. This season you would have paid that for a set of filters. I can appreciate you wanting to make money, but discouraging people to play via creating asset bubbles is bad for the game.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
I have a fully stocked Valakut, Eldrazi, Vamps deck in paper, and others...but playing once a week at FNM is not ideal. I'm selling my Eldrazi deck to build Vamps online and play every day that I can. FNM will be fine too, but there is much more added value to play anytime you want, especially drafts since I'm terrible at them but already placed in 2 out of 4.
Also, a quick question, do you ever win "tix"? I have seen packs as prize payouts so far, so you if you want to play in a draft with your prize packs, you have to sell one of them for the tix?
I have a fully stocked Valakut, Eldrazi, Vamps deck in paper, and others...but playing once a week at FNM is not ideal. I'm selling my Eldrazi deck to build Vamps online and play every day that I can. FNM will be fine too, but there is much more added value to play anytime you want, especially drafts since I'm terrible at them but already placed in 2 out of 4.
Also, a quick question, do you ever win "tix"? I have seen packs as prize payouts so far, so you if you want to play in a draft with your prize packs, you have to sell one of them for the tix?
Yup. Tix are only used for entry, packs (and complete sets rarely) are payouts.
Tix are never given out, its the way Wotc keeps inflation down, the fact that every ticket in game has at some point come from the store means that they will not drop to far below 1$ (yes i know they where lower than that in early v3, but that was due to people cashing out and creating a surplus)
Tix are never given out, its the way Wotc keeps inflation down, the fact that every ticket in game has at some point come from the store means that they will not drop to far below 1$ (yes i know they where lower than that in early v3, but that was due to people cashing out and creating a surplus)
That was also before they put in pre-release events that took tix only. At 30 a pop they dried up the supply for people who didn't want to pay insane vat taxes on packs. This of course raised the overall cost of cards too. There have been a lot of disucssions about this on the mothership boards.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
A brag post from a speculator. The supply of SHM/EVE cards on MTGO is painfully thin. Anyone who wanted to play extended last season either needed to have thier cards or buy them from people who drove up the price. The prices were not reflective of the actual play demand (heck they rarely seem to be these days).
Back when extended was 7 blocks you could fill out an extended deck for $50-60. This season you would have paid that for a set of filters. I can appreciate you wanting to make money, but discouraging people to play via creating asset bubbles is bad for the game.
About Extended, that's not really true. Last extended season the Ravinica lands took a similar jump, from ~12-15 tix to ~20-25 tix. I think Hallowed Fountain and Watery Grave hit 30 at their peek. Certain key cards in tier 1 decks (Dark Depths especially) went from single digit tix to 20+. Whenever there is going to be a constructed ptq season, there is going to be something to spike.
About asset bubbles, I think speculation is probably a large second to price fixing in terms of price. While the absolutely primo cards are very elastic and expensive (think Primevals and Jaces) the second tier cards are extreemly inelastic, with almost all transactions occurring through bots, and their prices are artificially high.
If mtgo had a true market system, which I would welcome wholeheartedly, I think the price of decks would drop massively, and in a way that wouldn't effect drafters badly since most of the margin would come from the bot's side. This would probably require factional tickets (albeit a true automated have/want list with fractional values might be enough), which we already know we'll never get for legal reasons.
EDIT : Sorry, I completely misread your post. Pre and Post online ptqs are completely different worlds in terms of making money via speculation. If you could win a blue envelope online when old-extended was alive, I would be shocked if you could put together a deck that cheap.
After reading this entire thread, seeing posts about the prices of MTGO, I am astounded that no one has typed this:
The currency for MTGO is tickets, unless you are buying packs from the Wizards of the Coast store.
Tickets are NOT dollars. When you see a Jace listed at 75, that is 75 TICKETS. A ticket can be purchased for $0.90, and I've seen them as low as $0.79. Assuming it is $0.90 for the ease of understanding, that's already a 10% discount on any MTGO card, and that's before you take into account the value of MTGO versus physical.
After reading this entire thread, seeing posts about the prices of MTGO, I am astounded that no one has typed this:
The currency for MTGO is tickets, unless you are buying packs from the Wizards of the Coast store.
Tickets are NOT dollars. When you see a Jace listed at 75, that is 75 TICKETS. A ticket can be purchased for $0.90, and I've seen them as low as $0.79. Assuming it is $0.90 for the ease of understanding, that's already a 10% discount on any MTGO card, and that's before you take into account the value of MTGO versus physical.
I haven't seen them as low as .79 in 4 years now unless they were stolen tickets that a scammer was selling. .95-.98 is a more realistic figure currently.
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PureMTGO MTGOTraders - Coupon mtgsallypaypal for 8% off orders paid for with paypal. MTGO Hotlist! - Pays more than bots for singles. CapeFearGames - Coupon mtgsally for 5% off entire order. Orders ship same day if order placed before 3pm EST M-F. Do not stack with other coupons please.
Paying extra 20% on paper cards for MTGOTraders credits.
Once they start running online Pro-Tours I'll make the switch.
I hate the fact that you can win a PTQ online, and then you'd have to go and drop $700 on the deck you won with. Not to mention the delay in putting out new sets. It's far from perfect the way it is. You also lose the option of buying cards in exc. condition, for a fraction of the NM price, which, in my case got me 4 Omens for 20 instead of 60 euro's. They will be absolutely worthless in a couple of months anyway so 20 is overpriced as it is imo, but this can't really happen online.
Hang on, you honestly would sit on a PT invite and fuss about having to buy cards? Forget the air fare, hotel, food/beverage et et. If you care that much about costs, I don't think you have to worry about going pro.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
I play both and find they both have advantages. Though if you want the best deals on MTGO cards I would HIGHLY suggest Marlon Bot's. If you buy credits from them you can get cards for 8% off ($92 for $100 in credits), which can be a lot of saving on Jace's and high end cards. On top of that, every-time you buy credits and/or cards fro Marlon, you get entered into a drawing for up to $500 in credits. I've only won $20 so far, but better than nothing.
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Check out my music at J-Xile.com | Me on the sig My Decks, Haves & Wants, Buy/Wish List, and Worksheets:
booster pack comparison.
cheaper$booster means more value card. (paper)
more$booster means cheaper value card. (online)
the difference cash value wise from paper to online.
i will say if boxes were reduced in price to what i can get in real life, i would switch to mtgo in a heartbeat and so would tons of people. but i can't justify paying full retail price for a box when i can get it Completely cheaper box in a simple google search, not even trying for a good deal. (im not advertising, and i hope this won't flag me )
but yeah, it sucks cause id love to draft any second of the day and the availability of drafting older sets is also fun, as in person that's hardly going to happen.
as for which to play depends on your life style. us with needy wives or night jobs prevent fnm's, and if you enjoy magic, fnm's are something you don't wanna miss(usually).
i have my fnm's nights and pay full retail for my booster for the experience of going out an having a good time doing the draft, but when i buy my boxes i would die if i had to pay full booster price cause it gets really expensive. (buying a couple boxes per expansion adds up +fat packs and then fnm's.)
so thats why i stick to paper, if things were cheaper, id go online.
MTGOTraders - Coupon mtgsallypaypal for 8% off orders paid for with paypal.
MTGO Hotlist! - Pays more than bots for singles.
CapeFearGames - Coupon mtgsally for 5% off entire order. Orders ship same day if order placed before 3pm EST M-F. Do not stack with other coupons please.
Paying extra 20% on paper cards for MTGOTraders credits.
Boosters aren't "really" $4 a piece online. Sure, that is the price at the store, but if you go to any of the bots, your going to probably pay somewhere between 3.40-3.70 per pack for current stuff (M11, scars) and obviously more for the out of print stuff.
A paper box is going to be $100. I just checked right now -- bots are selling scars packs @ 3.60, so that'll be about $130.
Ok - so I'm sure you'll say "that's still 30% more than paper" - and it is. However, you need to take into account that you can draft with the packs 24/7. Instead of just opening packs, you can actually apply the additional $30 as an entertainment cost and take whatever packs you can win as a bonus.
If you draft with your 36 packs, you have entry to roughly 11 drafts. If you can even do ok at all in drafting, you'll make your $30 back right there and if you can draft well, you'll actually make money on the deal. If you win ONE 8-4 in 11 tries, you've made the $30 back.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
The math is a little wrong since you also have to pay 2 tickets per draft. But the idea is spot-on. You will get a ton of entertainment value drafting (unless you have a lot of friends that you can share/bust open packs with).
I've made a bit of money investing in mtgo, basically laying down cash on 500 tix at some point last year, and buying/sell singles at what I believe to be the high/low points. Before the next constructed season begins I'll probably be increasing my initial investment to 2000 tix.
Biggest winners being Jace TMS @ 35 tix, and Twilight Mire at 6 tix.
Actually playing though? Very little chance to make money. If you are breaking even you're doing well.
Jace is not 35 tix. It's closer to 80-100 tix. Vengevine and Primeval Titan are in the upper 30's. However, most cards are valued at 10-40% of their paper equivalent.
Going infinite in limited formats is next to impossible. If you play a lot of constructed and are good, it is possible to go infinite.
woosh
spam
I think he meant the price he bought them at.
Mtgo drafting is great for casual players getting more for their money. I have draft SOM 4322 about 10 times for a little under 20 bucks. I made playsets of everything I need and sold the rest. especially when som boosters were 3 tix a pack life was good.
UBR Mishra Artifacts UBR
It's easier for me to homebrew decks online. I can write a list up make the deck, spend probably a fraction of the time /effort it would take for me to make it in paper. And I get to play with it right away and throw it out if it wasn't very good.
About the booster thing
yeah you can get "in print" stuff a little cheaper from bots and such, but also a lot of the online retailers that cater to the online game also usually offer boosters of older/not in print sets that are pretty cheap.
It doesn't matter much though, you should just buy the cards you want (especially for online) there is no *point* in owning more than 4 of any given card.
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I still can not convince myself to spend so much money on a virtual product. I know, IRL it's just cardbord, but at least it's something physical.
A brag post from a speculator. The supply of SHM/EVE cards on MTGO is painfully thin. Anyone who wanted to play extended last season either needed to have thier cards or buy them from people who drove up the price. The prices were not reflective of the actual play demand (heck they rarely seem to be these days).
Back when extended was 7 blocks you could fill out an extended deck for $50-60. This season you would have paid that for a set of filters. I can appreciate you wanting to make money, but discouraging people to play via creating asset bubbles is bad for the game.
Also, a quick question, do you ever win "tix"? I have seen packs as prize payouts so far, so you if you want to play in a draft with your prize packs, you have to sell one of them for the tix?
Yup. Tix are only used for entry, packs (and complete sets rarely) are payouts.
That was also before they put in pre-release events that took tix only. At 30 a pop they dried up the supply for people who didn't want to pay insane vat taxes on packs. This of course raised the overall cost of cards too. There have been a lot of disucssions about this on the mothership boards.
About Extended, that's not really true. Last extended season the Ravinica lands took a similar jump, from ~12-15 tix to ~20-25 tix. I think Hallowed Fountain and Watery Grave hit 30 at their peek. Certain key cards in tier 1 decks (Dark Depths especially) went from single digit tix to 20+. Whenever there is going to be a constructed ptq season, there is going to be something to spike.
About asset bubbles, I think speculation is probably a large second to price fixing in terms of price. While the absolutely primo cards are very elastic and expensive (think Primevals and Jaces) the second tier cards are extreemly inelastic, with almost all transactions occurring through bots, and their prices are artificially high.
If mtgo had a true market system, which I would welcome wholeheartedly, I think the price of decks would drop massively, and in a way that wouldn't effect drafters badly since most of the margin would come from the bot's side. This would probably require factional tickets (albeit a true automated have/want list with fractional values might be enough), which we already know we'll never get for legal reasons.
EDIT : Sorry, I completely misread your post. Pre and Post online ptqs are completely different worlds in terms of making money via speculation. If you could win a blue envelope online when old-extended was alive, I would be shocked if you could put together a deck that cheap.
its just so much more liquid- its a joke to buy and sell cards and entire collections.
as for cashing out- dont do it via redeeming sets, just ebay your collection.
The currency for MTGO is tickets, unless you are buying packs from the Wizards of the Coast store.
Tickets are NOT dollars. When you see a Jace listed at 75, that is 75 TICKETS. A ticket can be purchased for $0.90, and I've seen them as low as $0.79. Assuming it is $0.90 for the ease of understanding, that's already a 10% discount on any MTGO card, and that's before you take into account the value of MTGO versus physical.
^ Courtesy of Sgt. Chubbz from Damnation Studios.
I haven't seen them as low as .79 in 4 years now unless they were stolen tickets that a scammer was selling. .95-.98 is a more realistic figure currently.
MTGOTraders - Coupon mtgsallypaypal for 8% off orders paid for with paypal.
MTGO Hotlist! - Pays more than bots for singles.
CapeFearGames - Coupon mtgsally for 5% off entire order. Orders ship same day if order placed before 3pm EST M-F. Do not stack with other coupons please.
Paying extra 20% on paper cards for MTGOTraders credits.
Hang on, you honestly would sit on a PT invite and fuss about having to buy cards? Forget the air fare, hotel, food/beverage et et. If you care that much about costs, I don't think you have to worry about going pro.
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