I've tried a lot of ways to get the long-forgotten gohei to act like a beefy glorious anthem and I think I've finally got the right mix of cards coming together.
From past experience: monogreen, green/red, red/black, monored cannot really make much use of the gohei.
But what does make good use of it, at least so far, is my black/white deck:
This deck competes with MBA, Red burn, and meloku/kagemaro reanimator so far from my early play online.
One of the best synnergies in this deck is akuba and thief of hope's soulshift. Another great synnergy is waxmane baku's blocker-tapping and akuba's life drain.
The gohei does a couple of things... it makes your evasive lantern kami's twice as effective, it makes your akuba, baku, and thief immune to hideous laughter and glacial ray, and it makes your sickening shoal have some extra punch when you hardcast it. Finally, it turns promise of bunrei into a powerhouse.
It would be nice to get more out of the gohei's arcane cost-reduction, but so far I've found the only arcane that really fits this deck is sickening shoal. I tossed one greed in there as an alternative win condition, if I find it works well I may up it to 2.
I find reciprocate is top notch, preventing yosei/kokusho graveyard effects as well as any soulshift/reanimating. It also only costs W which is hella nice. I can't imagine cage of hands or terashi's verdict working as well. I'd think about shining shoal but I don't want to get too carried away with high CC cards.
I hope to build this one up to a tournament quality deck.
Oh, and waxmane baku is freaking awesome. He pins down so many creatures both from attacking and blocking when played right!
IMO i would say drop 2 mana run the mana count to 22 and go ahead and add 2 more devouring greeds it can do one of two things well, kill a creature to activate your promise or turn your bunrei into a more effective searing wind for 4.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Making Play Mistakes since '98
Current Decks:
:symu:Rule of One:symw:
:symu:Faeries:symb:
:symr:Chili Cookoff:symw:
Decks Working On:
:symu:Relic Control:symb:
:symr:Team Proxy Build:symw:
:symb:Team Proxy Build:symr:
"Who keeps a Mother F*****G RPG in a Mother F****G Backpack?"
Even with tops, I would be afraid of going too low on mana, I like to be able to run about 6 lands consistently in a game, as it allows me the flexibility to top, switch jitte targets from attacker to blocker, sickening shoal for 4+, and drain more usefully with akuba.
I will probably try dropping it to 23 lands and running 2 greeds, since I like what you mentioned about it allowing me to activate bunrei, or abuse bunrei. Right now I only have 2 promises of bunrei though... should I ideally run 4? or is that just asking to get hosed by samurai of the pale curtain or hideous laughter?. It's a nice card when I toss it down, but I don't know that having 2 in play would be much more than a "win more" strategy.... hard to say.
I'd say get just one more an drun it. that way you almost always get at least one each game. and the only reason i suggested 22 was because of the mana curve, but i can see staying at 23, and i would think final judgement to be a better sideboard card, but then again i don't know exatly how well this deck works with it. although looking at what it keeps pace with i would guess you use judgement on a regular basis. i would say cut 1 akuba for the fact he is the only that you have in there so compared to everybody else he isn't especially strong. and thus when you get him out he should be more usable.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Making Play Mistakes since '98
Current Decks:
:symu:Rule of One:symw:
:symu:Faeries:symb:
:symr:Chili Cookoff:symw:
Decks Working On:
:symu:Relic Control:symb:
:symr:Team Proxy Build:symw:
:symb:Team Proxy Build:symr:
"Who keeps a Mother F*****G RPG in a Mother F****G Backpack?"
sicking shoal does not get help from that artifact
sickening shoal does get help from the long-forgotten gohei. it reduces the cost by 1. so if you wanted to cast a 5 point shoal, it would normally be 7 mana. but then we apply cost reducers and you pay 6.
now, in the case where you play the spell with its alternate casting cost then you are right. but in the basic case where you ignore the alternate casting cost then the gohei will help out the shoal a little bit.
I've found final judgement to be a godsend. There is no time when I have it and wish I had something else... if I'm losing, it brings me back into the game. If I'm winning, it makes sure things stay that way. Also people really do not expect it in what otherwise looks like a basic weenie deck. But when my opponent kagemaro's and then drops a kodama north, judgement resets things in my favour. Especially if i've got a gohei or two out, turning my critters into serious beat sticks.
It plays well but gets burned a bit too easily by kagemaro-reanimator and myojin-flare.
It's got a very solid game against WW and MBA, and regular gifts. Kodama of the North is usually handled with a gohei and some chump blockers. I keep thinking about charge across the araba even though its a 2 coloured deck, but just don't know what I would remove to add it and it would seem to just be a different devouring greed type finisher.
Another card I keep glancing at is death denied, as a way to recur all of my weenies that got knocked off... it would be great for producing waxmane baku counters, or drain over time from thief of hope to say nothing of either setting up a fat devouring greed, or recovering from a greed if it fails to completely finish off my opponent.
The jury is somewhat out on the divining tops... they pale in comparison to tops that are used with shuffle effects. I find they can save me a few turns, but eventually I wind up with 3 land on top, then 3 land again, and all I've done is put that off for a few turns. I have zero shuffling effects so these may be candidates to go out for the other cards I'm looking at.
Honestly, you need to chose a color and stick with it. Either make Mono Black Spirits, or the much stronger Mono White Spirits. With Mono White you can run Charge to its fullest and you get the bomb known as Celestial Kirin.
The issue there is monowhite spirits have 2 good spirits, 4 at best. Waxmane and Lantern being the definite thumbs up spirits, Kami of Ancient Law and Celestial Kirin being the other possibles. The problem with Celestial in a spirit deck is how easy it is to blow your own things up if you haven't designed properly.
In Monoblack you've got thief of hope and wicked akuba. The rest are not that great (besides legends like kagemaro that require a specific deck design to work properly).
From past experience: monogreen, green/red, red/black, monored cannot really make much use of the gohei.
But what does make good use of it, at least so far, is my black/white deck:
4 Lantern Kami
4 Wicked Akuba
4 Thief of Hope
4 Waxmane Baku
3 Reciprocate
2 Final Judgement
2 Promise of Bunrei
2 Sickening Shoal
1 Devouring Greed
4 Long-Forgotten Gohei
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Umezawa's Jitte
Land (24)
12 Swamp
12 Plains
This deck competes with MBA, Red burn, and meloku/kagemaro reanimator so far from my early play online.
One of the best synnergies in this deck is akuba and thief of hope's soulshift. Another great synnergy is waxmane baku's blocker-tapping and akuba's life drain.
The gohei does a couple of things... it makes your evasive lantern kami's twice as effective, it makes your akuba, baku, and thief immune to hideous laughter and glacial ray, and it makes your sickening shoal have some extra punch when you hardcast it. Finally, it turns promise of bunrei into a powerhouse.
It would be nice to get more out of the gohei's arcane cost-reduction, but so far I've found the only arcane that really fits this deck is sickening shoal. I tossed one greed in there as an alternative win condition, if I find it works well I may up it to 2.
I find reciprocate is top notch, preventing yosei/kokusho graveyard effects as well as any soulshift/reanimating. It also only costs W which is hella nice. I can't imagine cage of hands or terashi's verdict working as well. I'd think about shining shoal but I don't want to get too carried away with high CC cards.
I hope to build this one up to a tournament quality deck.
Oh, and waxmane baku is freaking awesome. He pins down so many creatures both from attacking and blocking when played right!
Current Decks:
:symu:Rule of One:symw:
:symu:Faeries:symb:
:symr:Chili Cookoff:symw:
Decks Working On:
:symu:Relic Control:symb:
:symr:Team Proxy Build:symw:
:symb:Team Proxy Build:symr:
"Who keeps a Mother F*****G RPG in a Mother F****G Backpack?"
I will probably try dropping it to 23 lands and running 2 greeds, since I like what you mentioned about it allowing me to activate bunrei, or abuse bunrei. Right now I only have 2 promises of bunrei though... should I ideally run 4? or is that just asking to get hosed by samurai of the pale curtain or hideous laughter?. It's a nice card when I toss it down, but I don't know that having 2 in play would be much more than a "win more" strategy.... hard to say.
Current Decks:
:symu:Rule of One:symw:
:symu:Faeries:symb:
:symr:Chili Cookoff:symw:
Decks Working On:
:symu:Relic Control:symb:
:symr:Team Proxy Build:symw:
:symb:Team Proxy Build:symr:
"Who keeps a Mother F*****G RPG in a Mother F****G Backpack?"
Also, maybe you can throw in Koko as a late-game final effort to kill you thing?
sickening shoal does get help from the long-forgotten gohei. it reduces the cost by 1. so if you wanted to cast a 5 point shoal, it would normally be 7 mana. but then we apply cost reducers and you pay 6.
now, in the case where you play the spell with its alternate casting cost then you are right. but in the basic case where you ignore the alternate casting cost then the gohei will help out the shoal a little bit.
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
convert bulk into good cards? PucaTrade - https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/21195
Ebay - decks/Promos/DVDs
Trade thread (constantly updated)
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/337-pokerbob1s-casual-trading-emporium
I added 2x kami of ancient law and brought my devouring greed count up to 2. I removed 1 top, 1 plains, and 1 reciprocate.
It plays well but gets burned a bit too easily by kagemaro-reanimator and myojin-flare.
It's got a very solid game against WW and MBA, and regular gifts. Kodama of the North is usually handled with a gohei and some chump blockers. I keep thinking about charge across the araba even though its a 2 coloured deck, but just don't know what I would remove to add it and it would seem to just be a different devouring greed type finisher.
Another card I keep glancing at is death denied, as a way to recur all of my weenies that got knocked off... it would be great for producing waxmane baku counters, or drain over time from thief of hope to say nothing of either setting up a fat devouring greed, or recovering from a greed if it fails to completely finish off my opponent.
The jury is somewhat out on the divining tops... they pale in comparison to tops that are used with shuffle effects. I find they can save me a few turns, but eventually I wind up with 3 land on top, then 3 land again, and all I've done is put that off for a few turns. I have zero shuffling effects so these may be candidates to go out for the other cards I'm looking at.
The Real Best Legacy Poster of 2005 poll
In Monoblack you've got thief of hope and wicked akuba. The rest are not that great (besides legends like kagemaro that require a specific deck design to work properly).
And I'm not sure that in a spirit deck charge across the araba really has many advantages over devouring greed.
The Real Best Legacy Poster of 2005 poll