Any of you guys think it would be worth upping the Island count and trying to fit in Twincast to copy it? Seems like it would get you back faster from a losing board position vs. aggro, and can seal up the game fast enough vs. control so they don't kill before you stabilize.
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
I feel if you want twincast you can fit it in as I've been able to hardcast meishin with the tendo's. Maybe taking out the swamp to add another island so you can reach for it. The swamp only lets you cast black honden which is not something that "keeps you alive". Put a swamp in the board so you can run cranial.
why would you put twin cast? copy ur oppents spell? theres nothing good to copy in this deck, you cant copy enduring, it makes an exact copy and the one you play dosnet work.
well at least dont main them side them
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why would you put twin cast? copy ur oppents spell? theres nothing good to copy in this deck, you cant copy enduring, it makes an exact copy and the one you play dosnet work.
well at least dont main them side them
Wrong. This has been dabated many, many times, and yes, the copy still makes the Epic. So the Twincast woul dbe there to do that.
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
Do you really need twincast? A resolved Ideal should win the game, Twincast is really just a Win More.
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what are thoughts of adding gifts? help retive ideal?
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Do you really need twincast? A resolved Ideal should win the game, Twincast is really just a Win More.
I could see cases where you need to speed out the enchantments faster. Against MBA, you need to get multiple answers quick (i.e. Meishin/Reverence or 2 Hondens). It's possible to fall behind against some decks to the point that you'll want to catch up fast.
That said, I'm against Twincast in the deck, simply because I'm going to have enough trouble affording Final Judgment and Tendo Ice Bridge. But if you have more money than me, it might be worth a couple of them.
Heres where people are making the mistake with twincast and epic. I am no pro nore do i claim to be, but when you keep seeing the same thing over and over again you sometimes need to point it out. Epic spells are not ment to win you the game instantly. it is not a guarenteed win it gives you the chance to win. Twin cast is versatile i dont care what people say that its useless and is circumstantial give me a situation where i cant use twin cast then i might agree with you. Twin cast can be used as a counterspell or to get off extraction before the person casting it or do a double extraction. Sometimes for you "pros" out there you need to step off your high horse and really think about cards. I am one of those people who find a diamond in the rough and find ways of using them and all cards have playability.
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Do you really need twincast? A resolved Ideal should win the game, Twincast is really just a Win More.
In that case this deck should win almost 100% right?
The big problem for this deck is staying alive the few turns after the Epic resolves. I would rather control the game and get off 2 at a time then floundering after one is cast.
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
I think that when playing this deck you just need to be careful, an Ideal too early, before playing a Wrath Effect will lose you the game. If Meishin is not big enough to hold off their hordes, you WILL lose the game almost for sure. Just something to think about.
The big problem for this deck is staying alive the few turns after the Epic resolves. I would rather control the game and get off 2 at a time then floundering after one is cast.
And I'd rather not die waiting for 9 mana. To each their own.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
I think that when playing this deck you just need to be careful, an Ideal too early, before playing a Wrath Effect will lose you the game. If Meishin is not big enough to hold off their hordes, you WILL lose the game almost for sure. Just something to think about.
well usaly depending on your life and you oppents creatures, you would go for cage of hands or ghostly prison, and Fayul, usaly it can go off on turn 5, if ur lucky, heres how 1. dont miss land drop, 2. make sure u have a trip elder, 3. make sure you have a kodamas reach. 4. and finaly the ideal in hand, turn five epic is kinda sweet.
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And I'd rather not die waiting for 9 mana. To each their own.
Waiting for nine mana doesn't involve dying..especially if you nail one turn 5 with accel, given, that, you know, there ARE Reachs, Elder, and, in certain cases, Sustainers and Scouts.
Have you even played 3 color legends? That is the same principle, and they don't die before hitting 6-7 mana.
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
Waiting for nine mana doesn't involve dying..especially if you nail one turn 5 with accel, given, that, you know, there ARE Reachs, Elder, and, in certain cases, Sustainers and Scouts.
Have you even played 3 color legends? That is the same principle, and they don't die before hitting 6-7 mana.
She said 9 mana, not 6-7 mana. In a format dominated by 2 lightning-fast aggro decks, that can be a HUGE difference.
then why not add paddle as an extra mana producer?, seeing how the deck is almost legends? ex. turn three paddle, turn four honden, turn five ideal?-
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She said 9 mana, not 6-7 mana. In a format dominated by 2 lightning-fast aggro decks, that can be a HUGE difference.
This is not true at all. 5-Color legends can easily stall until it gets 9 mana, and actually does so often when it has nothing better to do (ie. randomly dropping Final Judgements and such). In a deck that is based around gettin that much mana fast, going from 6-7 mana to nine is an easy option. Plus, if you are really going to die that turn, then just drop the whole Twincast route and Ideal then for a Meishan, and pray they don't have KoAL for it.
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
Re: Paddle: Because it's too slow. Kodama's reach is almost infinitely batter, considering you're ALWAYS getting 2 out of it, and you get colored mana.
And, kids, always remember to get backups for your Important Things. Meishin and Red Honden (and Genju, if you run it) should at -LEAST- 2-ofs.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
so lets say you cast enduring ideal... fetch a White Honden...
next upkeep you fetch lets say... red honden... now ofcourse the upkeep of the red honden wont work yet... but the white one will... will you gain 2 life or 4?
This is quite important if you ask me... (when looking at the other hondens for example....)
Anyway, I'm working also on a version, which is slight cheaper to make (but of course also easier to kill due to prolly no protection VS Cranial Extraction, since that is our biggest threat I think...) I'll post it after some testing this week.
// Nr|Five
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Quote from WhammWhamme in reply to sneakyhomunculus »
I gotta say, your ability to judge how good a deck is at a glance is absolutely freakin' inspiring. I had no idea a player could be so good as to circumvent all need to test things out.
Im playing this deck in the local block tourneys with good results. Im running a very basic version with one of all the ideal targets but ghostly prison x4, cage of hands x4 and meishi x2. Also i have some troule against cleanfall and cranial but thats it. Heres my list:
I seem to have major problems with WW and Gifts because the former uses Nikko-Onna or Cleanfall , and Gifts will calmly infinite Wear Away the enchantments the second I tutor them out.
Does anybody know any good tech vs. these matchups? I can only think of Reito Lantern to recycle the destroyed enchantments, but it seems really slow and clunky...
Quote from WhammWhamme in reply to sneakyhomunculus »
I gotta say, your ability to judge how good a deck is at a glance is absolutely freakin' inspiring. I had no idea a player could be so good as to circumvent all need to test things out.
The won't work unless you run some Channel guys. What will happen is that when you enter the end of turn step, the Measure triggers and resolves. To exit the end of turn step you have to discard down to seven, long after the MEasure resolves. If only there was Trade Routes...
As for how to deal with Wear Away, the solution is very simple. One Cranial Extraction naming Hana Kami or Wear Away if you are sure that they aren't running Rending Vines in the deck.
Niko Onna is a little trickier, but I found boarding in up to 4 Genju is quite strong. Just keep on swinging.
well at least dont main them side them
Kane to Randy Orton
"Death waits for no one" Undertaker to Randy orton
Wrong. This has been dabated many, many times, and yes, the copy still makes the Epic. So the Twincast woul dbe there to do that.
Kane to Randy Orton
"Death waits for no one" Undertaker to Randy orton
I could see cases where you need to speed out the enchantments faster. Against MBA, you need to get multiple answers quick (i.e. Meishin/Reverence or 2 Hondens). It's possible to fall behind against some decks to the point that you'll want to catch up fast.
That said, I'm against Twincast in the deck, simply because I'm going to have enough trouble affording Final Judgment and Tendo Ice Bridge. But if you have more money than me, it might be worth a couple of them.
19/ M : Very good. Comments: I AM NOT DEAF!
44/M: Too vague a question. Loud "good" music would make me feel pumped. Loud "bad" music irritates me. Comments: This material and these questions made me give the "hearing thing" a bit of thought.
In that case this deck should win almost 100% right?
The big problem for this deck is staying alive the few turns after the Epic resolves. I would rather control the game and get off 2 at a time then floundering after one is cast.
And I'd rather not die waiting for 9 mana. To each their own.
well usaly depending on your life and you oppents creatures, you would go for cage of hands or ghostly prison, and Fayul, usaly it can go off on turn 5, if ur lucky, heres how 1. dont miss land drop, 2. make sure u have a trip elder, 3. make sure you have a kodamas reach. 4. and finaly the ideal in hand, turn five epic is kinda sweet.
Kane to Randy Orton
"Death waits for no one" Undertaker to Randy orton
Waiting for nine mana doesn't involve dying..especially if you nail one turn 5 with accel, given, that, you know, there ARE Reachs, Elder, and, in certain cases, Sustainers and Scouts.
Have you even played 3 color legends? That is the same principle, and they don't die before hitting 6-7 mana.
She said 9 mana, not 6-7 mana. In a format dominated by 2 lightning-fast aggro decks, that can be a HUGE difference.
Kane to Randy Orton
"Death waits for no one" Undertaker to Randy orton
This is not true at all. 5-Color legends can easily stall until it gets 9 mana, and actually does so often when it has nothing better to do (ie. randomly dropping Final Judgements and such). In a deck that is based around gettin that much mana fast, going from 6-7 mana to nine is an easy option. Plus, if you are really going to die that turn, then just drop the whole Twincast route and Ideal then for a Meishan, and pray they don't have KoAL for it.
And, kids, always remember to get backups for your Important Things. Meishin and Red Honden (and Genju, if you run it) should at -LEAST- 2-ofs.
Shadowmoor's Infinite combos
so lets say you cast enduring ideal... fetch a White Honden...
next upkeep you fetch lets say... red honden... now ofcourse the upkeep of the red honden wont work yet... but the white one will... will you gain 2 life or 4?
This is quite important if you ask me... (when looking at the other hondens for example....)
Anyway, I'm working also on a version, which is slight cheaper to make (but of course also easier to kill due to prolly no protection VS Cranial Extraction, since that is our biggest threat I think...) I'll post it after some testing this week.
// Nr|Five
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2 swamp
9 forest
1 mountain
6 plains
1 island
4 enduring ideal
4 final judgment
4 ghostly prison
4 cranial extraction
3 cage of hands
3 kodamas reach
3 sensei divining top
1 reverence
2 meishin, the mind cage
1 red honden
1 green honden
1 white honden
1 genju of the realm
Leche de cabra, azucar, glucosa, carbonato.
(no contiene colorantes ni saborizantes artificiales).
:spirit2:
Does anybody know any good tech vs. these matchups? I can only think of Reito Lantern to recycle the destroyed enchantments, but it seems really slow and clunky...
S_C
Measure of Wickedness
Correct me if I'm wrong, but once you start discarding your hand at end of turn. Your opponent will keep getting this
And no worries when he destroys other things you search out and put in play. They still will get some nice 8 damage to boot
// Nr|Five
Edit:
Of course you need something like some hondons (the white one) to make up for the life loss.
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As for how to deal with Wear Away, the solution is very simple. One Cranial Extraction naming Hana Kami or Wear Away if you are sure that they aren't running Rending Vines in the deck.
Niko Onna is a little trickier, but I found boarding in up to 4 Genju is quite strong. Just keep on swinging.
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Umm I'm sorry to say this but none of the Genju's are particularily effective against Nikko-Onna. It will just proceed to kill the genju.