There's always a way out of a situation, but the point remains that if you're caught up against a recurring Niko-Onna, dropping a fresh Genju every turn is likely your safest path to victory. Too bad we don't have Sterling Grove...
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
Actually htink more ont he lines of 1 with Trample. 1st and foremost card to go fetch vs. aggro is Meishan, making your Genju pretty much moot.
I would drop the Genjus all together, they just don't work as well as everybody seems to think they do.
But if they played Niko-Onna and killed your Meishin, then it really wouldn't mater. I was talking about how to beat a Niko-Onna loop.
And like the Spanish Chicken said, I don't think Infinite Rage is really a reliable or fast enough win condition by itself when you have very little ways of defending and reacting once you're on Ideal.
But if they played Niko-Onna and killed your Meishin, then it really wouldn't mater. I was talking about how to beat a Niko-Onna loop.
And like the Spanish Chicken said, I don't think Infinite Rage is really a reliable or fast enough win condition by itself when you have very little ways of defending and reacting once you're on Ideal.
And how would a Genju beat the lock? Last time i checked, it dies just the same.
At keast the Red Hondens have a chance, however small, to kill the Onna.
Plus, Meishan is just about th ebest thing to pull vs. WW. Thye may have KoAL or Nikko Onna, but, fi they don't, then you just pretty much stalled them out until you can win.
Infinite Rage is a fine win condition. Remember, once you are able to establish board control, there ability to come back is pretty much zip. I would rather have at least *some* way of taking care of Onna, rather then just having one of my main win conditons (Genju) shot down the moment it comes down.
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
Quote from WhammWhamme in reply to sneakyhomunculus »
I gotta say, your ability to judge how good a deck is at a glance is absolutely freakin' inspiring. I had no idea a player could be so good as to circumvent all need to test things out.
I myself am trying abuse the Ideal with Measure of Wickedness for the win condition. I use Soratami Mindsweeper for a constant means of putting cards into my yard with Heart of Light to protect him or neutralize an opponent's creature. It worked quite well in multiplayer but very poorly in duel. Of course, if you move outside of Block then you have access to Story Circle and Thought Courier that make my version a lot better. Just my 2 cents.
te problem with lantern is that if your are already on ideal by the time you draw the lantern, it would be a dead card. THe red channel is a solution but id go for the blue channel (the counter) becausse it can also deal with cleanfall, cranial and other harmfull stuff
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I personally think Cranial should be maindeck in some form. I am not real fond of lantern and if they can kill a honden of yours they can just as well kill your lantern via the previous wear away having been simply spliced onto another arcane spell. Simply having Cranial for Wear Away against the Gifts decks and against Terashi's Grasp game 1 is pretty good. Game 2 against WW, they would have Grasp and Cleanfall, but probably more Grasps, so Grasp is definitely always the first thing you Cranial, then Cleanfall. I still like the Black Honden maindeck also, though.
What is your sideboard strategy against the various decks, btw, Surging_Chaos?
What is your sideboard strategy against the various decks, btw, Surging_Chaos?
It goes like this:
Vs. Aggro
-3 Reito Lantern
-1 Kodama of the North Tree
-1 Kagemaro's Clutch
+1 Final Judgment
+4 Terashi's Grasp
Extra board control plus artifact/enchantment kill for Jitte.
Vs. Control
-1 Honden of Infinite Rage
-1 Hoinden of Cleansing Fire
-1 Honden of Life's Web
+3 Genju of the Realm
The idea here is to take out the slow Hondens for very fast Genjus. I just swing for eight a turn until they die. If they kill the Genju, fetch another one and continue the beats.
If the control deck has a hard time with Hondens, I go:
-1 Meishin
+1 Honden of Night's Reach
Vs. Combo
-3 Reito Lantern
-1 Kodama of the North Tree
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
The best way to deal with Nikko-Onna is the best way this deck deals with any creature: Kagemaro's Clutch.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Yeah and they never play Otherworld Journey, Shoal, or have Jitte counters.
Do you have a better plan? Any of those cards you named shut down the Honden plan just as badly. What does Jitte do to an 8/12? Oh no, they only take 6 damage from it. Even Shoal isn't that great an answer to it, they're not going to redirect more than 4 of the damage.
Do you have a better plan? Any of those cards you named shut down the Honden plan just as badly. What does Jitte do to an 8/12? Oh no, they only take 6 damage from it. Even Shoal isn't that great an answer to it, they're not going to redirect more than 4 of the damage.
Kagemaro's Clutch, and drop the Genju all together.
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
The fact is that Genju is a great win condition for this deck. So saying to cut it all together shows that you really haven't played with this deck at all.
They can still bounce the Niko in response to the Ideal trigger with an OWJ or some other Arcane instant. Then your Clutch isn't doing much, is it? And on their turn, they just rdrop Niko to kill whatever you put into play and beat face. At least with repeating Genjus, you can race them.
How in the world can you expect to race them with all the tricks they have? You can;t, and trying would ruin the point of the deck.
Running a 4 of Genju makes them dead draws and useless cards when you need to fish out Meishan (which you will most of the time have to do), and is terribly vulnerable, because, not only is it an enchanment, it becomes a creature too.
The white and red Hondens are enough, I have seen this deck play maybe one hunder times.
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
But will that really matter, if you're swinging for 8 with Trample 4 turns in a row?
Actually htink more ont he lines of 1 with Trample. 1st and foremost card to go fetch vs. aggro is Meishan, making your Genju pretty much moot.
I would drop the Genjus all together, they just don't work as well as everybody seems to think they do.
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While they are still as vulnerable, at least they do not become dead cards in your deck when you face anything aggro.
But if they played Niko-Onna and killed your Meishin, then it really wouldn't mater. I was talking about how to beat a Niko-Onna loop.
And like the Spanish Chicken said, I don't think Infinite Rage is really a reliable or fast enough win condition by itself when you have very little ways of defending and reacting once you're on Ideal.
And how would a Genju beat the lock? Last time i checked, it dies just the same.
At keast the Red Hondens have a chance, however small, to kill the Onna.
Plus, Meishan is just about th ebest thing to pull vs. WW. Thye may have KoAL or Nikko Onna, but, fi they don't, then you just pretty much stalled them out until you can win.
Infinite Rage is a fine win condition. Remember, once you are able to establish board control, there ability to come back is pretty much zip. I would rather have at least *some* way of taking care of Onna, rather then just having one of my main win conditons (Genju) shot down the moment it comes down.
Nice Kenji... yeah its a possible sideboard thingy you could go for. (heck its a lot more cheaper than getting Cranial Extraction for me :P)
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1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
2 Plains
3 Tranquil Garden
4 Tendo Ice Bridge
1 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Island
4 Sakura Tribe-Elder
2 Kodama of the North Tree
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Reito Lantern
4 Kodama's Reach
3 Final Judgment
4 Enduring Ideal
4 Ghostly Prison
1 Reverence
2 Kagemaro's Clutch
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Meishin, the Mind Cage
1 Honden of Cleansing Fire
1 Honden of Life's Web
1 Honden of Infinite Rage
3 Genju of the Realm
4 Terashi's Grasp
4 Cranial Extraction
1 Honden of Night's Reach
1 Final Judgment
2 Kagemaro's Clutch
Yes.. I know I said Reito Lantern was slow and clunky... but I'll try it out anyways and might move it to the sideboard.
S_C
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(no contiene colorantes ni saborizantes artificiales).
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What is your sideboard strategy against the various decks, btw, Surging_Chaos?
New to Commander? Read the Above article.
But it gets in for 8 before it dies. And 4x8 = more than dead.
It goes like this:
Vs. Aggro
-3 Reito Lantern
-1 Kodama of the North Tree
-1 Kagemaro's Clutch
+1 Final Judgment
+4 Terashi's Grasp
Extra board control plus artifact/enchantment kill for Jitte.
Vs. Control
-1 Honden of Infinite Rage
-1 Hoinden of Cleansing Fire
-1 Honden of Life's Web
+3 Genju of the Realm
The idea here is to take out the slow Hondens for very fast Genjus. I just swing for eight a turn until they die. If they kill the Genju, fetch another one and continue the beats.
If the control deck has a hard time with Hondens, I go:
-1 Meishin
+1 Honden of Night's Reach
Vs. Combo
-3 Reito Lantern
-1 Kodama of the North Tree
+4 Cranial Extraction
Obvious.
S_C
Yeah and they never play Otherworld Journey, Shoal, or have Jitte counters.
Do you have a better plan? Any of those cards you named shut down the Honden plan just as badly. What does Jitte do to an 8/12? Oh no, they only take 6 damage from it. Even Shoal isn't that great an answer to it, they're not going to redirect more than 4 of the damage.
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Kagemaro's Clutch, and drop the Genju all together.
Problem solved.
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They can still bounce the Niko in response to the Ideal trigger with an OWJ or some other Arcane instant. Then your Clutch isn't doing much, is it? And on their turn, they just rdrop Niko to kill whatever you put into play and beat face. At least with repeating Genjus, you can race them.
Running a 4 of Genju makes them dead draws and useless cards when you need to fish out Meishan (which you will most of the time have to do), and is terribly vulnerable, because, not only is it an enchanment, it becomes a creature too.
The white and red Hondens are enough, I have seen this deck play maybe one hunder times.
It's obvious you haven't.
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