well i did it purely based on the top 8 lists and finishes... and i wrote up the lists by "hand" on notepad, then uploaded them to my team's website so that post could bask in all its glory.
EDIT: didn't wanna double-post here. i just wanted to mention that StarCity has turned downright abusive, not to mention relatively absurd. i'm so glad that there's a site like this on the web. the Saviors of Salvation! thanks be to ye.
Since some of the people here can't get onto the WotC website, I'm going to post the PTQ results they listed on that page here. This is a complete listing of all reported PTQ's through July 10th, a total of 16 events.
Deck - Top 8 Finishes (First place finishes)
WW - 58 (8)
MBA - 30 (4)
3-color Control - 11 (2)
Gifts - 9
Snakes - 5 (1)
Mono-R Aggro - 5
Accelerated Bombs - 3 (1)
Reanimator - 3
Sway - 2
4-color Control - 2
Kite Control - 2 (one U/W, one B/W)
Hondens - 1
U/G Control - 1
U/W Ninjas - 1
Infinite Sachi - 1
Dampen Thought - 1
Mono-G Aggro - 1
Mono-U Control - 1
Ire - 1
Other - 6
So WW is about half the field, with MBA taking up the majority of the rest. Based entirely on this, I would make the tiers:
1: WW, MBA
1.5: 3CC, A-Bombs, Snakes
2: Gifts, Mono-R Aggro, Reanimator
3: Anything else with more than one T8 finish.
Seems to me that Snakes has taken the past couple of weeks off from PTQ T8s. Overall only 5 T8s and none this past week? I don't know if I would consider that even tier 1.5 anymore.
The results from this past week's worth of PTQs seem to have trimmed the field down to just MBA, WW, and some form of multicolor control, either with or without Gifts Ungiven (the three and four color control decks I've seen seem to follow the same basic principles, so I would consider them to be all the same kind of deck, although I'm sure some would disagree). There were only a few decks that weren't one of those three basic archetypes, of which I can remember a R/W deck, a samurai-based deck, and one based on Enduring Ideal.
Seems like no one has really figured out how to beat the metagame, and everyone is just following the crowd right now. There are almost no new deck archetypes, although there are minor variations between the established decks.
Looking at all that aggro making T8s this past week, why isn't MBC doing anything in this environment? With all the removal available to MBC (including cards that can kill black creatures like Hero's Demise, Sickening Shoal and Rend Flesh), along with discard/disruption like Distress and Cranial Extraction, one would think that MBC would have great chances against the Big Three in block. Anybody have thoughts on this?
Yea, MBC seems very powerful, but its main weakness is the extremely poor matchup against gifts. It may seems it has lots of control disruption, but sometimes it just doesnt
What does that mean exactly, Nemcon? MBC has access to Cranial Extraction, Distress, and possibly Nezumi Graverobber or Night of Souls' Betrayal to disrupt the Gifts engine, and that doesn't even include possibly running Pithing Needle set to any of the key Gifts cards like Sakura-Tribe Elder or Hana Kami. That seems like an awful lot of disruption for MBC to just not have any answers at all vs. Gifts. This, of course, assuming that MBA/WW isn't going to make up at least 2/3 of the metagame in most places, and you only face maybe one Gifts deck all day.
That's just what it seems like to me. WHY doesn't MBC have the answers against the Big Three?
on the Top 8 finishes, just wondering if G/R Spiritcraft was in other....
Personally, I see G/R Spiritcraft being Tier 2.5 or Tier 3. Yeah I know I'll get lots of heat for this. See against WW, if you get to Turn 4-5, Jiwari comes in handily, and Arashi can take out Flyers. Personally this deck is underestimated. I beat out 5 MBA, 8 WW, and about 3-4 Snakes with it. Snakes were really fun to play with, and luckily I was able to throw it out in the late game. WW cries on the arrival of Jiwari and Arashi, and I was surprised that Raving-Oni Slave made MBA lose, courtesy of Frostling and Glacial Ray. I won all games with at least 1 big boy out (South and North Tree, Jiwari, Arashi).
Seems to me that Jiwari vs. WW only works if you channel it, if that's what you're talking about. Its targeted ability once it's in play is useless vs. WW if they have Eight and a Half Tails, of course. Also, an active Jitte trumps any Jiwari (unless you're playing it for six or more).
Arashi, on the other hand, might be better, as it's a 5/5 for 5, but it's still better used as a channel ability, although WW doesn't really have many fliers to speak of (Lantern Kami is the only one that comes to mind). As a matter of fact, it seems to me that Arashi doesn't really do much against most aggro decks (if it only kills one creature, is it really worth it, except as a 5/5 for 5?).
Against MBA, Raving Oni-Slave has always been the weak point, as without Demons in play, its drawback is severe if your opponent is playing removal (and with the prevalence of MBA and WW in the environment, it's hard to imagine a deck without creature removal). If your opponent is dumb enough to keep playing out Raving Oni-Slaves without Demon backup after you show creature removal, or even worse, after you drop a Mountain, you should be happy and enjoy your bye round.
Still, without disruption, doesn't G/R spiritcraft still lose to Gifts or any other form of multicolor control? It can't stop Ethereal Haze-lock, and most multicolor control decks will run Kokusho in order to gain back life, so burn is probably not going to be the answer. Gifts can also run Yosei and lock you down that way, if necessary, and again, there isn't really much in the way of disruption in G/R spiritcraft.
Remember, while MBA/WW/Snakes might still be strong in the format (not so sure about Snakes, but stay with me here), there are still multicolor control decks out there (either Gifts or Time of Need/Heartbeat), and those demand at least a little bit of disruption, or a fast enough deck to win before those decks lock you out.
on the Top 8 finishes, just wondering if G/R Spiritcraft was in other....
Personally, I see G/R Spiritcraft being Tier 2.5 or Tier 3. Yeah I know I'll get lots of heat for this. See against WW, if you get to Turn 4-5, Jiwari comes in handily, and Arashi can take out Flyers. Personally this deck is underestimated. I beat out 5 MBA, 8 WW, and about 3-4 Snakes with it. Snakes were really fun to play with, and luckily I was able to throw it out in the late game. WW cries on the arrival of Jiwari and Arashi, and I was surprised that Raving-Oni Slave made MBA lose, courtesy of Frostling and Glacial Ray. I won all games with at least 1 big boy out (South and North Tree, Jiwari, Arashi).
I'll give credit where credit is due; yes, one of those "Other" decks was G/R Spiritcraft. I just think that was a fluke, a very small PTQ, or both.
@Unorthodox: For WW fliers, don't forget Celestial Kirin in most builds.
WW - 77 (11)
MBA - 51 (7)
3-color Control - 13 (2)
Gifts - 17 (1)
Snakes - 6 (1)
Mono-R Aggro - 5
Accelerated Bombs - 5 (2)
Reanimator - 4
Sway - 2
4-color Control - 3
Kite Control - 2 (one U/W, one B/W)
Hondens - 3
U/G Control - 1
U/W Ninjas - 1
Infinite Sachi - 1
Dampen Thought - 1
Mono-G Aggro - 1
Mono-U Control - 1
Ire - 1
Mono-B Control - 1
Rock - 1
Enduring Ideal - 1
Other - 9 (wtf is Paddle?)
Analysis: The tiers don't change drastically here, though Gifts shows it can compete and should be considered for tier 1.5. MBA's numbers are slowly approaching WW's, indicating that the deck is (1) gaining popularity or (2) just plain better. My money is on a mix of the 2. MBA had 2 more T8 finishes than WW (21-19) with an equal amount of wins (3) this past weekend.
Tier 1:
MBA
WW
1.5:
Gifts
TOGIT/3CC
Accelerated Bombs
2:
Snakes
Mono-R Aggro
Enduring Ideal (I just think this will gain popularity fast)
Wht the heck's a Paddle deck? Never hear of it. Can anyone show us a decklist of the dekc which KP mentioned?NOTE: Of course Jiwari works best when Channeled! It's called "mass removal".
I dunno. The closest thing I can think of is when my freind totally killed us in playtesting with a deck that utlilizes Honor-Worn Shaku (looks like a paddle) and the green legends guy that lets you draw when you play legends, and then procedes to make a sickeningly mass amount of mana and drop big things.
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
WW - 107 (13)
MBA - 66 (8)
Gifts - 45 (6)
3-color Control - 15 (2)
Accelerated Bombs - 10 (2)
Snakes - 9 (1)
Mono-R Aggro - 9
4-color Control - 6
U/G Control - 4 (2)
Mono-U Control - 4 (1)
Reanimator - 4
Sway - 3 (1)
Hondens - 3
Kite Control - 2 (one U/W, one B/W)
Rock - 2
Enduring Ideal - 2
Paddle - 2
Ninjas - 1
Infinite Sachi - 1
Dampen Thought - 1
Mono-G Aggro - 1
Ire - 1
Mono-B Control - 1
Other - 12
Tier report: Clearly, Gifts is tier 1, picking up 5 victories in 12 tournaments. Nothing else really changes.
Notes: Blue-Green Control got 3 top 8's this past weekend. 2 of them won it all. Sway got 1 top 8 and won it. The least efficient use of T8 space goes to Heartbeat/Accelerated Bombs, which went 0-for-5. Paddle got one 8th-place finish for the second weekend in a row.
Why has no one added mono blue control to the top tiers, it rapes gifts and when teched, it can beat white weenie. However the ww matchup is unfavorable preboard.
EDIT: didn't wanna double-post here. i just wanted to mention that StarCity has turned downright abusive, not to mention relatively absurd. i'm so glad that there's a site like this on the web. the Saviors of Salvation! thanks be to ye.
Deck - Top 8 Finishes (First place finishes)
WW - 58 (8)
MBA - 30 (4)
3-color Control - 11 (2)
Gifts - 9
Snakes - 5 (1)
Mono-R Aggro - 5
Accelerated Bombs - 3 (1)
Reanimator - 3
Sway - 2
4-color Control - 2
Kite Control - 2 (one U/W, one B/W)
Hondens - 1
U/G Control - 1
U/W Ninjas - 1
Infinite Sachi - 1
Dampen Thought - 1
Mono-G Aggro - 1
Mono-U Control - 1
Ire - 1
Other - 6
So WW is about half the field, with MBA taking up the majority of the rest. Based entirely on this, I would make the tiers:
1: WW, MBA
1.5: 3CC, A-Bombs, Snakes
2: Gifts, Mono-R Aggro, Reanimator
3: Anything else with more than one T8 finish.
The results from this past week's worth of PTQs seem to have trimmed the field down to just MBA, WW, and some form of multicolor control, either with or without Gifts Ungiven (the three and four color control decks I've seen seem to follow the same basic principles, so I would consider them to be all the same kind of deck, although I'm sure some would disagree). There were only a few decks that weren't one of those three basic archetypes, of which I can remember a R/W deck, a samurai-based deck, and one based on Enduring Ideal.
Seems like no one has really figured out how to beat the metagame, and everyone is just following the crowd right now. There are almost no new deck archetypes, although there are minor variations between the established decks.
Looking at all that aggro making T8s this past week, why isn't MBC doing anything in this environment? With all the removal available to MBC (including cards that can kill black creatures like Hero's Demise, Sickening Shoal and Rend Flesh), along with discard/disruption like Distress and Cranial Extraction, one would think that MBC would have great chances against the Big Three in block. Anybody have thoughts on this?
That's just what it seems like to me. WHY doesn't MBC have the answers against the Big Three?
Personally, I see G/R Spiritcraft being Tier 2.5 or Tier 3. Yeah I know I'll get lots of heat for this. See against WW, if you get to Turn 4-5, Jiwari comes in handily, and Arashi can take out Flyers. Personally this deck is underestimated. I beat out 5 MBA, 8 WW, and about 3-4 Snakes with it. Snakes were really fun to play with, and luckily I was able to throw it out in the late game. WW cries on the arrival of Jiwari and Arashi, and I was surprised that Raving-Oni Slave made MBA lose, courtesy of Frostling and Glacial Ray. I won all games with at least 1 big boy out (South and North Tree, Jiwari, Arashi).
Arashi, on the other hand, might be better, as it's a 5/5 for 5, but it's still better used as a channel ability, although WW doesn't really have many fliers to speak of (Lantern Kami is the only one that comes to mind). As a matter of fact, it seems to me that Arashi doesn't really do much against most aggro decks (if it only kills one creature, is it really worth it, except as a 5/5 for 5?).
Against MBA, Raving Oni-Slave has always been the weak point, as without Demons in play, its drawback is severe if your opponent is playing removal (and with the prevalence of MBA and WW in the environment, it's hard to imagine a deck without creature removal). If your opponent is dumb enough to keep playing out Raving Oni-Slaves without Demon backup after you show creature removal, or even worse, after you drop a Mountain, you should be happy and enjoy your bye round.
Still, without disruption, doesn't G/R spiritcraft still lose to Gifts or any other form of multicolor control? It can't stop Ethereal Haze-lock, and most multicolor control decks will run Kokusho in order to gain back life, so burn is probably not going to be the answer. Gifts can also run Yosei and lock you down that way, if necessary, and again, there isn't really much in the way of disruption in G/R spiritcraft.
Remember, while MBA/WW/Snakes might still be strong in the format (not so sure about Snakes, but stay with me here), there are still multicolor control decks out there (either Gifts or Time of Need/Heartbeat), and those demand at least a little bit of disruption, or a fast enough deck to win before those decks lock you out.
I'll give credit where credit is due; yes, one of those "Other" decks was G/R Spiritcraft. I just think that was a fluke, a very small PTQ, or both.
@Unorthodox: For WW fliers, don't forget Celestial Kirin in most builds.
Deck - Top 8 Finishes (First place finishes)
WW - 77 (11)
MBA - 51 (7)
3-color Control - 13 (2)
Gifts - 17 (1)
Snakes - 6 (1)
Mono-R Aggro - 5
Accelerated Bombs - 5 (2)
Reanimator - 4
Sway - 2
4-color Control - 3
Kite Control - 2 (one U/W, one B/W)
Hondens - 3
U/G Control - 1
U/W Ninjas - 1
Infinite Sachi - 1
Dampen Thought - 1
Mono-G Aggro - 1
Mono-U Control - 1
Ire - 1
Mono-B Control - 1
Rock - 1
Enduring Ideal - 1
Other - 9 (wtf is Paddle?)
Analysis: The tiers don't change drastically here, though Gifts shows it can compete and should be considered for tier 1.5. MBA's numbers are slowly approaching WW's, indicating that the deck is (1) gaining popularity or (2) just plain better. My money is on a mix of the 2. MBA had 2 more T8 finishes than WW (21-19) with an equal amount of wins (3) this past weekend.
Tier 1:
MBA
WW
1.5:
Gifts
TOGIT/3CC
Accelerated Bombs
2:
Snakes
Mono-R Aggro
Enduring Ideal (I just think this will gain popularity fast)
3: Pretty much anything else listed here
EDIT: Mind fart, sorry about the double post.
Mmm, I think I've read it somewhere before ...
Ah, find it Here
And there's another relevant articles that can be find in starcitygames and (ex-)Brainburst
9 Forest
3 Island
3 Mountain
4 Tendo Ice Bridge
1 Minamo, Schhol at Water's Edge
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
Creatures
2 Orochi Sustainer
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Godo, Bandit Warlord
4 Keiga, the Tide Star
4 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
3 Jugan, the Rising Star
4 Kodama's Reach
4 Honor-worn Shaku
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Konda's Banner
1 Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang
4 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Glacial Ray
3 Hisoka's Defiance
4 Kodama of the north tree
4 Mindblaze
This is Pre-Saviors.
Deck - Top 8 Finishes (First place finishes)
WW - 107 (13)
MBA - 66 (8)
Gifts - 45 (6)
3-color Control - 15 (2)
Accelerated Bombs - 10 (2)
Snakes - 9 (1)
Mono-R Aggro - 9
4-color Control - 6
U/G Control - 4 (2)
Mono-U Control - 4 (1)
Reanimator - 4
Sway - 3 (1)
Hondens - 3
Kite Control - 2 (one U/W, one B/W)
Rock - 2
Enduring Ideal - 2
Paddle - 2
Ninjas - 1
Infinite Sachi - 1
Dampen Thought - 1
Mono-G Aggro - 1
Ire - 1
Mono-B Control - 1
Other - 12
Tier report: Clearly, Gifts is tier 1, picking up 5 victories in 12 tournaments. Nothing else really changes.
Notes: Blue-Green Control got 3 top 8's this past weekend. 2 of them won it all. Sway got 1 top 8 and won it. The least efficient use of T8 space goes to Heartbeat/Accelerated Bombs, which went 0-for-5. Paddle got one 8th-place finish for the second weekend in a row.