My Ire deck doesn't have green in it, though NavyJoe's Ire deck looks good and he has results to show. If I've a card to add to it, it would be Reweave. I don't suppose it'll be over a buck, and hey it's removal.
I agree with what a couple of you have stated already, Mono Red Aggro, either jitte-less or running Jitte is a nice cheap competitive deck, with 4 or less rares, that can be played with some success against most of the decks currently seen in KBC constructed.
I've made up a little test version not to dissimilar from Mastab360's version just as another playtest deck against WW, MBA, Gifts, Hondens, Togit, three color legends, Fugita's X and it's always been great fun.
I find that MBC works very well for me. The tools are all there: You just need a solid win condition. Cursed Ronin will do if you REALLY have no money, but Ink-Eyes would be preferable.
with mbc in kami block you might want to have rend spirit at least in ur sb and of course every kami block deck needs, if you have the money pithing needle in the sb and jitte since ur goin black maybe even a extraction in the sb but only kinda
with mbc in kami block you might want to have rend spirit at least in ur sb and of course every kami block deck needs, if you have the money pithing needle in the sb and jitte since ur goin black maybe even a extraction in the sb but only kinda
On Rend Spirit- I disagree. When you're killing a spirit, there's a good chance that it's going to soulshift or have a spiffy ability like Kokusho. As such, you need to do it for cheap, with Kiku's Shadow, or get card advantage from it, like Hideous Laughter. Not ever KBC deck needs Pithing Needle- I find it, actually, to be very overrated, and very seldom is it useful when I cast it or my opponent casts it against me. I am running exactly 8 creatures, so I kinda doubt Jitte's effectiveness: maybe a Manriki-Gusari will do fine, although I'm not even sure how useful that is. And extraction is almost completely unnescessary unless Ire is huge in your area.
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also listen to yodafan he knows whats hes talking about
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Yeah, Yodafan's pretty much a EDH pro.
Yodafan: Official pro of one of Magic’s most casual formats.
On Rend Spirit- I disagree. When you're killing a spirit, there's a good chance that it's going to soulshift or have a spiffy ability like Kokusho. As such, you need to do it for cheap, with Kiku's Shadow, or get card advantage from it, like Hideous Laughter. Not ever KBC deck needs Pithing Needle- I find it, actually, to be very overrated, and very seldom is it useful when I cast it or my opponent casts it against me. I am running exactly 8 creatures, so I kinda doubt Jitte's effectiveness: maybe a Manriki-Gusari will do fine, although I'm not even sure how useful that is. And extraction is almost completely unnescessary unless Ire is huge in your area.
I agree with Yoda here, Kiku's shadow is apt at dealing with 99% of KBC threats, and it's a mana cheaper than Rend' to boot.
Cranial deserves a spot in the board only. we need more 'threats' main deck in this sort of build than 'threat answers' like Cranial. keep up the testing, and i'm sure the ratio's will sort themselves out.
We all know that there are plenty of Spirit bombs in KBC as of now, primarily popping up in Gifts and 3-color (Godo and not). Rend Spirit will hit most of those without much trouble to you. I really don't get where the whole Soulshift argument comes from though. Soulshift is so small and abstract in the format that it is not something to be bringing up. If control is really heavy in someones area, then it would actually pay to maybe run 2 or 3 (3 max) Rends in the main. If I were to make MBC right now, this is what the removal would look like:
4x Kagemaro
3x Shadow
3x Laughter
4x Whisper
and, if space permits, either Rend Spirit/Flesh, depending on the metagame in the area.
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
If you can afford Kagemaro, I do not think that you should run Rend Spirit... or Horobi's Whisper, for that matter. The main problem with Whisper is that against MBA, MBC, or most Gifts creatures, it is useless. Although the card advantage is undeniable, I think that there are several rares you should be running over whisper to deal with annoying black creatures, among them Sickening Shoal and Night of Soul's Betrayal(as a permenant answer to Hana lock, if you see it: also, lots of 2/1 or 3/1s running around). And for Budget, rarely does Extraction do much for you that a well played Nezumi Graverobber can't(although, admittedly, not as well).
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Quote from releasethedogs »
also listen to yodafan he knows whats hes talking about
Quote from Penumbra Leprechaun »
Yeah, Yodafan's pretty much a EDH pro.
Yodafan: Official pro of one of Magic’s most casual formats.
Yeah, I totally overlooked Sickening Shoal...Oh well, my bad.
Anyway, Whipser is not as useless as you think vs Gifts...It can kill Godos (Huge, huge threat for MBC), Meloku (something which Shadow can't pop), and other random fat legends that the metagame makes them play. I like it because its the nut high in the WW matchup, because in mid-game you are going to be striving to get as much card advantage as you need.
Plus, you should have a good game vs. Black Hand anyway (they have a very low threat count), and MBC as a whole is very, very rare in the scene.
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
It seems to me that if you kill Meloku, you'd want Hideous Laughter involved in some way... those tokens can be annoying buggers. And, to be honest, I've never seen Godo in any Gifts decks, but I don't generally look at that thread. Probably a bad idea. Horobi's Whisper, however, is probably a good idea... especially if on a budget, which the focus of the thread is on. I still don't support Rend Spirit, but I do think you've convinced me to try Horobi's Whisper in a more expensive build again.
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Quote from releasethedogs »
also listen to yodafan he knows whats hes talking about
Quote from Penumbra Leprechaun »
Yeah, Yodafan's pretty much a EDH pro.
Yodafan: Official pro of one of Magic’s most casual formats.
If you want a discussion thread please make one.. the usefulness of the original point of this thread is at an end and as such it will be closed.
If you have a problem with this.. feel free to pm - Raia
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land:
16 Mountain
4 Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai
4 Akki Blizzard-Herder
4 Glitterfang
4 Frostling
3 Cunning Bandit
4 First Volley
3 Barrel Down Sokenzan
4 Lava Spike
4 Crack the Earth
4 Long-Forgotten Gohei
Level 2 Judge
Token and Playmat Store
Beyond the Guildpact
I've made up a little test version not to dissimilar from Mastab360's version just as another playtest deck against WW, MBA, Gifts, Hondens, Togit, three color legends, Fugita's X and it's always been great fun.
4x Cursed Ronin
4x Hand of Cruelty
4x Kiku's Shadow
4x Rend Flesh
4x Horobi's Whisper
4x Distress
4x Psychic Spear
3x Hideous Laughter
3x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Waking Nightmare
That's just a rough draft, but it looks decent to me: Nice curve, good assortment of Creature Kill and discard, some solid critters... I don't know.
Yodafan: Official pro of one of Magic’s most casual formats.
On Rend Spirit- I disagree. When you're killing a spirit, there's a good chance that it's going to soulshift or have a spiffy ability like Kokusho. As such, you need to do it for cheap, with Kiku's Shadow, or get card advantage from it, like Hideous Laughter. Not ever KBC deck needs Pithing Needle- I find it, actually, to be very overrated, and very seldom is it useful when I cast it or my opponent casts it against me. I am running exactly 8 creatures, so I kinda doubt Jitte's effectiveness: maybe a Manriki-Gusari will do fine, although I'm not even sure how useful that is. And extraction is almost completely unnescessary unless Ire is huge in your area.
Yodafan: Official pro of one of Magic’s most casual formats.
I agree with Yoda here, Kiku's shadow is apt at dealing with 99% of KBC threats, and it's a mana cheaper than Rend' to boot.
Cranial deserves a spot in the board only. we need more 'threats' main deck in this sort of build than 'threat answers' like Cranial. keep up the testing, and i'm sure the ratio's will sort themselves out.
We all know that there are plenty of Spirit bombs in KBC as of now, primarily popping up in Gifts and 3-color (Godo and not). Rend Spirit will hit most of those without much trouble to you. I really don't get where the whole Soulshift argument comes from though. Soulshift is so small and abstract in the format that it is not something to be bringing up. If control is really heavy in someones area, then it would actually pay to maybe run 2 or 3 (3 max) Rends in the main. If I were to make MBC right now, this is what the removal would look like:
4x Kagemaro
3x Shadow
3x Laughter
4x Whisper
and, if space permits, either Rend Spirit/Flesh, depending on the metagame in the area.
Yodafan: Official pro of one of Magic’s most casual formats.
Anyway, Whipser is not as useless as you think vs Gifts...It can kill Godos (Huge, huge threat for MBC), Meloku (something which Shadow can't pop), and other random fat legends that the metagame makes them play. I like it because its the nut high in the WW matchup, because in mid-game you are going to be striving to get as much card advantage as you need.
Plus, you should have a good game vs. Black Hand anyway (they have a very low threat count), and MBC as a whole is very, very rare in the scene.
Yodafan: Official pro of one of Magic’s most casual formats.
If you have a problem with this.. feel free to pm - Raia