your position can never be so good that you couldn't gain from getting cheap draw ESPECIALLY in an aggro deck that runs out of card fast.
what happens if 5th turn they are at 9 and play final judgement followed by a 6th turn moloku? are you just going to roll over and die?
your position can never be so good that you couldn't gain from getting cheap draw ESPECIALLY in an aggro deck that runs out of card fast.
what happens if 5th turn they are at 9 and play final judgement followed by a 6th turn moloku? are you just going to roll over and die?
exactly what i have been trying to say.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Kijin »
It's funny because innocent people that were trying to pay the bills for their families were brutally murdered.
For my meta it works wonders. My meta is almost entirely Rock w/ U splash for Gifts and one guy uses Heartbeat + B/U Myojins. And a few random Samurais and Ogre/Demon.
Choice will own them horribly. The pick high: they lose life then get beat to death. They pick low: they lose permanents then get beat to death. It only works well against control though so hence only 2 and in the board.
your position can never be so good that you couldn't gain from getting cheap draw ESPECIALLY in an aggro deck that runs out of card fast.
what happens if 5th turn they are at 9 and play final judgement followed by a 6th turn moloku? are you just going to roll over and die?
Ok, cuz that will EVER happen...and even if it does, if you don't have any answers for that, you overcommitted and screwed yourself over. I almost never have more than 2 creatures on play with this deck, and I'm usually holding 2-3 more plus a Whisper/Shoal. The deck DOESN'T empty its hand fast, if you play the deck right. Look, I'm not talking blind here. I tested it. Thoroughly. And it sucked.
Spiritdeed: Interesting addition in Choice. I don't know the metagame well enough to build a SB yet, but if Control looks strong, it's definitely a worthy inclusion.
How does Plague clean your opponent's board? It kills one creature for an exorbitant amount of mana.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from The Missing Link »
ever looked on http://www.wizards.com it gives u lots of info on magic amd cards so if u havnt looked hav a look and it will tell u allmost anything about magic the gathering
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
Also, don't forget that you can start the bidding at zero.
Play it at 0:
Y: 0
O: 1
Y: 2
O: 3
Y: 4 <= usually ends there
This means one card for one life advantage. If you go higher, than it's not that bad either, usually with your opponent taking anywhere from 5 to 7+ life.
Play it at 1:
Y: 1
O: 2
Y: 3
O: 4
Y: 5
O: 6 <= usually ends there
This one gives your opponent a better deal in the card-for-life advantage, but if they're really low, you might be able to get away with a steal.
So then conclusion:
Starting the bid at a reasonable even number (0, 2, 4) nets you in a 1-card for 1-life position or your opponent losing 5+ points of life, which is 1/4 of their life total and pretty nice for a 3-cc card.
Starting the bid at a reasonable odd number (1,3,5) gives the opponent a better end of the deal, but if they refuse due to circumstances, you'll end up with a cheaper bargain.
Since black has all the discard, it shouldn't be too bad to take out his hand a bit. Heck, feels like a perfect combination with Struggle for Sanity or Sink into Takenuma. Plus, making your opponent lose 1/4 or more of their life is a large advantage in itself. Imagaine the fun with Choice of Damnantions.
Well, if you test Reward and like it, then run it. But I tested it, and I lost every game I played it, and won a few games where it sat in my hand because I didn't need it. So I'm not using it.
It works like a charm. The curve is smooth it has aggressive drops, discard, creature kill, the ability to sut an opponent off from a mana source (Gifts only runs 1-2 white sources), and amazing beats. I will be playing thsi deck myself.
Tomb of Urami is terrible, and Befoul costs too much for an aggro deck. Why is it there over Whisper?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from The Missing Link »
ever looked on http://www.wizards.com it gives u lots of info on magic amd cards so if u havnt looked hav a look and it will tell u allmost anything about magic the gathering
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
It hurts you to tap it, and the token is rarely good, because it's needlessly easy to kill.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from The Missing Link »
ever looked on http://www.wizards.com it gives u lots of info on magic amd cards so if u havnt looked hav a look and it will tell u allmost anything about magic the gathering
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
It hurts you to tap it, and the token is rarely good, because it's needlessly easy to kill.
Tomb shouldn't hurt you THAT bad if you're running about 12 ogres (Oni-Slave, Marauder, Bleeder), and what is bad with a 5/5 flying creature? There is no Shrapnel Blast around, and the only way it can really get killed is through Sickening Shoal. Plus you can bust it out if your opponent foolishly casted Final Judgment on the board.
WW - Good Match-Up. Hand of Cruelty makes them cry. Most Tallowisp builds aren't running Honor so tah tgives you a big oen up. Plus you got Befoul which after boarding becoems much cheaper creature kill.
Snakes - Even. We got faster beats than they do but they got a better late game. Often depends on better draw
Gifts - Good Match. Distress hurts them a lot. So does Nezumi graverobber as it can reanimate there own Kami. Plus Pithing Needle from board. Befoul destroys whats often there loan white mana source.
G/X/X Control - Good match-up. Once again Distress is great. Your beats are much faster and you can use Jitte better.
One question still wasn't answered: Why Befoul over Horobi's Whisper? You're almost never going to use it to kill a land, so why pay more for the same effect?
One question still wasn't answered: Why Befoul over Horobi's Whisper? You're almost never going to use it to kill a land, so why pay more for the same effect?
You can also use Befoul to kill Miren, which IMO will be HEAVILY played in reanimator due to the amazing sac outlet it is.
You can also use Befoul to kill Miren, which IMO will be HEAVILY played in reanimator due to the amazing sac outlet it is.
But I think the 4x Graverobber is enough hate against Reanimator. I could see running Befoul in the board for Gifts and Reanimator, but against Snakes (which I see as being this deck's biggest problem), WW and most other decks in the format, Whisper is going to be better.
Speaking of sideboard, has anyone come up with a working one for this deck yet? Here's the options I've seen.
Befoul - Gifts, Reanimator Dance of Shadows - Snakes, WW, other non-B creature-heavy decks Night of Souls' Betrayal - Snakes. It might seem counterproductive in an aggro deck, but more than 50% of the creatures in here survive it. Kinda iffy though. Cranial Extraction - Dampen Thought, control (if it only runs 1-2 win conditions), random combo decks. Pain's Reward - I'll concede it's good against some decks, but I don't think it's good enough to put in the main. Choice of Damnations - Control. It can be a win condition against decks that manage to keep our creatures in check. Boseiju, Who Shelters All - Control. It makes sure you can get that Extraction or Choice through. Entirely dependent on the rest of the sideboard though; I doubt you'll want to pay 2 life to keep your Horobi's Whisper from getting countered.
I seem unsure about Pain's Reward; still trying to find out some other things for it.
KPDaly: Vs. Snakes, I side in 4 NoSB and sometimes the Extractions so I can nuke the Hatcheries. That way, I won't have to worry about them churning out endless swarms of snakes.
Sink into Takenuma is a surprisingly a somewhat good card. I can curve out with turn 1 Naginata, turn 2 Oni-Slave or Hand, turn 3 Marauder or Bleeder, then usually turn 4 Sink sweeping all my swamps to really handicap the control decks.
Note to mods: I think this deck has proven itself to be viable. Perhaps this could get an [Official Thread]? And while you're at it, the name should probably get changed to mono-Black Aggro or something along those lines.
yes Befoul was to hate against Gifts. They can't get a Haze lock without Plains, and msot buidl only run one with Eiganjo which tehy can't search for. I never really thought about it against Reanimator as I don't consider Reanimator a threat. ALso a bt mroe testing ha show Snakes to be my only bad match-up.
Gifts decks usually use Ice Bridge as well, but they can only use those things once anyways...
They don't run Orchard usually, but they might go there to have a constant white source.
Then again, we have Graverobber.
@ SRDude: Try NoSB vs. Snakes in the board. That will stop them from generating proliferating Snakes from Summons and Hatchery. Then you can just kill Seshiro and Sachi and you should win the game at your own leisure.
Ok I am new to the format, like real new, and I heard about a tournament in my area that the prize for winning is a mint condition Mana Drain from Legends. So I built up a quick decklist and would love to have anyone help me out with it.
An interesting point is brought up with this deck though. Would Ink-Eyes be a better inclusion than Yukora? Considering our hefty removal and large number of mildly large creatures, I'm willing to bet something would get through every turn and there would be decent creatures in the grave to steal, making Ninjutsu-ing Ink-Eyes in a very good move.
what happens if 5th turn they are at 9 and play final judgement followed by a 6th turn moloku? are you just going to roll over and die?
exactly what i have been trying to say.
3 Nezumi Graverobber
4 Nezumi Cutthroat
4 Hand of Cruelty
4 Ogre Marauder
4 Raving Oni-Slave
3 Umezawas Jitte
4 Psychic Spear
4 Horobi's Whisper
4 Sickening Shoal
2 Genju of the Fens
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Tomb of Urami
3 Pithing Needle
3 Cranial Extraction
4 Rend Spirit
2 Choice of Damnations
3 Skull Collector
For my meta it works wonders. My meta is almost entirely Rock w/ U splash for Gifts and one guy uses Heartbeat + B/U Myojins. And a few random Samurais and Ogre/Demon.
Choice will own them horribly. The pick high: they lose life then get beat to death. They pick low: they lose permanents then get beat to death. It only works well against control though so hence only 2 and in the board.
*sig by Nan *avvy by Grimclaw
Ok, cuz that will EVER happen...and even if it does, if you don't have any answers for that, you overcommitted and screwed yourself over. I almost never have more than 2 creatures on play with this deck, and I'm usually holding 2-3 more plus a Whisper/Shoal. The deck DOESN'T empty its hand fast, if you play the deck right. Look, I'm not talking blind here. I tested it. Thoroughly. And it sucked.
Spiritdeed: Interesting addition in Choice. I don't know the metagame well enough to build a SB yet, but if Control looks strong, it's definitely a worthy inclusion.
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
Play it at 0:
Y: 0
O: 1
Y: 2
O: 3
Y: 4 <= usually ends there
This means one card for one life advantage. If you go higher, than it's not that bad either, usually with your opponent taking anywhere from 5 to 7+ life.
Play it at 1:
Y: 1
O: 2
Y: 3
O: 4
Y: 5
O: 6 <= usually ends there
This one gives your opponent a better deal in the card-for-life advantage, but if they're really low, you might be able to get away with a steal.
So then conclusion:
Starting the bid at a reasonable even number (0, 2, 4) nets you in a 1-card for 1-life position or your opponent losing 5+ points of life, which is 1/4 of their life total and pretty nice for a 3-cc card.
Starting the bid at a reasonable odd number (1,3,5) gives the opponent a better end of the deal, but if they refuse due to circumstances, you'll end up with a cheaper bargain.
Since black has all the discard, it shouldn't be too bad to take out his hand a bit. Heck, feels like a perfect combination with Struggle for Sanity or Sink into Takenuma. Plus, making your opponent lose 1/4 or more of their life is a large advantage in itself. Imagaine the fun with Choice of Damnantions.
- Natsume
Lands 22
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Tomb of Urami
20 Swamps
Creatures 23
4 Hand of Cruelty
4 Nezumi Graverobber
4 Raving Oni Slave
4 Ogre Marauder
4 Razor-Jaw Oni
3 Yokura, The Prisoner
Spells 15
3 Pain's Reward
4 Umezewa's Jitte
4 Distress
4 Befoul
It works like a charm. The curve is smooth it has aggressive drops, discard, creature kill, the ability to sut an opponent off from a mana source (Gifts only runs 1-2 white sources), and amazing beats. I will be playing thsi deck myself.
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
Tomb shouldn't hurt you THAT bad if you're running about 12 ogres (Oni-Slave, Marauder, Bleeder), and what is bad with a 5/5 flying creature? There is no Shrapnel Blast around, and the only way it can really get killed is through Sickening Shoal. Plus you can bust it out if your opponent foolishly casted Final Judgment on the board.
and also maybe tell us how the matchup goes.
WW - Good Match-Up. Hand of Cruelty makes them cry. Most Tallowisp builds aren't running Honor so tah tgives you a big oen up. Plus you got Befoul which after boarding becoems much cheaper creature kill.
Snakes - Even. We got faster beats than they do but they got a better late game. Often depends on better draw
Gifts - Good Match. Distress hurts them a lot. So does Nezumi graverobber as it can reanimate there own Kami. Plus Pithing Needle from board. Befoul destroys whats often there loan white mana source.
G/X/X Control - Good match-up. Once again Distress is great. Your beats are much faster and you can use Jitte better.
Well tahts pretty much it.
You can also use Befoul to kill Miren, which IMO will be HEAVILY played in reanimator due to the amazing sac outlet it is.
But I think the 4x Graverobber is enough hate against Reanimator. I could see running Befoul in the board for Gifts and Reanimator, but against Snakes (which I see as being this deck's biggest problem), WW and most other decks in the format, Whisper is going to be better.
Speaking of sideboard, has anyone come up with a working one for this deck yet? Here's the options I've seen.
Befoul - Gifts, Reanimator
Dance of Shadows - Snakes, WW, other non-B creature-heavy decks
Night of Souls' Betrayal - Snakes. It might seem counterproductive in an aggro deck, but more than 50% of the creatures in here survive it. Kinda iffy though.
Cranial Extraction - Dampen Thought, control (if it only runs 1-2 win conditions), random combo decks.
Pain's Reward - I'll concede it's good against some decks, but I don't think it's good enough to put in the main.
Choice of Damnations - Control. It can be a win condition against decks that manage to keep our creatures in check.
Boseiju, Who Shelters All - Control. It makes sure you can get that Extraction or Choice through. Entirely dependent on the rest of the sideboard though; I doubt you'll want to pay 2 life to keep your Horobi's Whisper from getting countered.
3 Tomb of Urami
4 Nezumi Graverobber
4 Hand of Cruelty
4 Raving Oni Slave
4 Ogre Marauder
4 Takenuma Bleeder
3 Yukora, the Prisoner
4 O-Naginata
4 Sickening Shoal
3 Horobi's Whisper
3 Sink into Takenuma
4 Pithing Needle
4 Pain's Reward
4 Night of Soul's Betrayal
3 Crainial Extraction
I seem unsure about Pain's Reward; still trying to find out some other things for it.
KPDaly: Vs. Snakes, I side in 4 NoSB and sometimes the Extractions so I can nuke the Hatcheries. That way, I won't have to worry about them churning out endless swarms of snakes.
Sink into Takenuma is a surprisingly a somewhat good card. I can curve out with turn 1 Naginata, turn 2 Oni-Slave or Hand, turn 3 Marauder or Bleeder, then usually turn 4 Sink sweeping all my swamps to really handicap the control decks.
S_C
They don't run Orchard usually, but they might go there to have a constant white source.
Then again, we have Graverobber.
@ SRDude: Try NoSB vs. Snakes in the board. That will stop them from generating proliferating Snakes from Summons and Hatchery. Then you can just kill Seshiro and Sachi and you should win the game at your own leisure.
S_C
4x Hand of Cruelty
4x Nezumi Cutthroat
4x Nezumi Graverobber
4x Ogre Marauder
4x Raving Oni-Slave
4x Takenuma Bleeder
3x Razorjaw Oni
2x Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
4x Horobi's Whisper
2x Umezawa's Jitte
3x O-Naginata
2x Hideous Laughter
18x Swamps
2x Tomb of Urami
Sideboard
3x Night of Souls Betrayal
3x Mark of the Oni
4x Distress
2x Nezumi Shortfang
3x Yukora the Prisoner
I was thinking about Manriki-Gusari for sideboard for its ability to destroy other equipments for like white weenie and such.
-1 Tomb of Urami
-2 Hideous Laughter (want to lose all your creatures?)
+1 O-Naginata
+1 Umezawa's Jitte
+3 Sickening Shoal (you should find room for a 4th too)
+1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
An interesting point is brought up with this deck though. Would Ink-Eyes be a better inclusion than Yukora? Considering our hefty removal and large number of mildly large creatures, I'm willing to bet something would get through every turn and there would be decent creatures in the grave to steal, making Ninjutsu-ing Ink-Eyes in a very good move.