With four Yokura, the odds are smaller that it will happen.
Sickening Shoal has never been high on my list. Horobi's Whisper and/or Kiku's Shadow are better ideas.
After much testing, Urami's Tomb has become a favorite care of mine. Whenever I blow the world up with it, I always win soon afterward. I cannot recall a game I have lost with it set off.
Scourge of the Numai = Poop. Nezumi Cutthroat is smiley face happy. Bananas.
Lastly... DON'T use Razor Jaw Oni. It sets you into a race, and there are too many decks that will beat you.
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With four Yokura, the odds are smaller that it will happen.
Sickening Shoal has never been high on my list. Horobi's Whisper and/or Kiku's Shadow are better ideas.
After much testing, Urami's Tomb has become a favorite care of mine. Whenever I blow the world up with it, I always win soon afterward. I cannot recall a game I have lost with it set off.
Scourge of the Numai = Poop. Nezumi Cutthroat is smiley face happy. Bananas.
Lastly... DON'T use Razor Jaw Oni. It sets you into a race, and there are too many decks that will beat you.
In defense of Razorjaw, it will set off a race you'll always win in the mirror. I'm still not running it, but it's not the worst decision.
I don't see what people have against Shoal. It's a great card, especially in a format where most of the things you'll be worried about can be killed by pitching a Marauder. I still run 4 Shoal and 4 Horobi's Whisper and I'm quite happy with that. However, Kiku's Shadow IS a card I'm considering, since I can only think of one heavily played creature it doesn't kill (Meloku).
Hand of Honor poses a threat here, and for that reason I could justify Hideous Laughter in the SB. But not MD. It kills too many of your creatures.
I'm still pretty adamant about this maindeck, but the SB still needs work:
The 4th Jitte comes in against other decks with Jitte. Remember, some of the top decks like Gifts don't look twice at the card, and I don't even think all the Snake decks run it.
Kiku's Shadow is a straight replacement for Horobi's Whisper in the mirror.
Night of Souls' Betrayal comes in against Snakes and WW.
Nezumi Shortfang comes in against Gifts and maybe Reanimator though I don't like giving them an outlet.
Choice of Damnations is to break a stalemate against control.
Moreover, you can only think of one creature in pre-Saviours KBC that it doesn't kill. From Saviours alone it doesn't kill Hand of Honour, Razorjaw Oni, Descendant of Kiyomaro, Kashi-Tribe Elite, Kami of the Crescent Moon or Kuon, Ogre Ascendant. There will also be other creatures that have become playable now due to metagame shift.
I'm not sold on those Myojin decks ending up competitive. Nor do I expect to see Crescent Moon, Razorjaw, Ogre Ascendant or probably Descendant of Kiyomaro in any competitive decks. I did mention the problem the deck has with Hand of Honor, and Snakes already pose a problem so one more strike against it doesn't really matter at this point. Plus, like I said, I would board in the Shadows when Whisper doesn't get the job done, so in all those cases except Kuon and Razorjar, they wouldn't be in my deck anyway. I do have to look around Saviors some more though, I'll admit that. Any suggestions on my SB in terms of actual add/dropping?
Kagemaro is no good in this deck, he's purely a control card and this is purely an aggro deck. If you use him to wipe the board, he's taking all your creatures with him too.
Miren is bad too. You don't want to sac the only guys in here with high toughness (Oni-Slave and Yukora) and the rest aren't worth the mana.
I've been play testing a MBA block deck and it is amazingly resilient. Naginata as 1st turn, cutthroat, oni-slave, and akuba as 2nd turn, bleeder/marauder as 3rd turn, razorjaw/yukora as 4th turn. I run 4 whispers, 2 hero;s demise, and 2 rend flesh.
I wasn't playing with Jittes at first but they definitely need to be in there. The oni-slave is tricky, I often leave him in my hand until I have a razorjaw or yukora out versus blue, just because I'm scared of consuming vortex or eye of nowhere. Versus red he's pretty tight, often he'll die early to a block + burn, but with o-naginata you get good damage through and cost your oponent 2 cards.
The worst thing that happens is drawing 3 oni slaves. A bit too much pain. I'd probably only run 2 maindeck, although that turn 3 6/3 trampler is almost enough to make me want to keep 4.
@p.viola
I was trying to be funny stupid. I meant to say that the scourge of numai aint that great and that you'd get better results with the Cutthroat. Then I got hungry and wanted a banana.
@ KPDaly
I don't like shoal because in this deck, I would rather play a creature than ditch it to kill one. I can, however, see the potential in it and do think its a great card in the right circumstances. However, there are times where the card will not be useful at all, and I'm more worried about those times. I do not think you should take it out if it has been working, I just would rather have Distress. it gets rid of Gifts, Jitte and other painful cards before they come to be a nuisance.
@ Baal
Ya, kagemaro is controllish. In this deck, its gonna be a 2/2 by turn three or four, or obsolete if you are running shoal.
@ Vodka7up
I agree entirely with the NoSB qualm you are having. The best thing I can do is SB Onag out, but there is still the problem of having 12 creatures (N Cutthroat, N Graverobber, Ogre Murauder) dying to it as well. My deck:
Plz note, on a cell phone it is really dificult to card tag.
19 Swamps
1 Urami
1 Shizo
4 Yokura
4 Ogre Marauder
4 Nezumi Cutthroat
4 Nezumi Graverobber
4 Hand of Cruelty
4 Raving Oni Slave
4 Distress
4 Horobis Whisper
4 Jitte
3 O-naginata
SB
4 Eradicate
4 Night of Souls Betrayal
4 Nezumi Shortfang
3 Cranial Extraction
Yes, I know, SB is crap, but I have very little idea of where I'm going with it.
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In the main deck, I'd run almost anything over Razorjaw Oni - including Kami of Empty Graves. I suppose the Oni has some synergy with Raving Oni-Slave, but really it shouldn't matter.
You didn't mention Hand of Cruelty anywhere. You are running them, aren't you?
Razorjaw oni = disgustingly good. Why would you block with an aggro deck? What card do you see an opponent using to hold that oni back without killing it? a 4/5 swinging on turn 5 (could be 7/5 trample pretty easily usually too) either has to be killed or you lose. Either way the no blocking thing should never hurt you. Your creatures should all be bigger than his, and some of them should be trampling/jitting most of the time. The only thing you have to fear is like cage of hands, and even then the rest of your creatures are still fat enough to carry on their dark crusade.
He also stops life loss from takenuma bleeder and raving oni-slave, which is a nice add-on. And he's non-legend, so you can play multiple copies.
As for hand of cruelty, I wasn't playing them myself because I don't have any. I've got some on order though, when they get in later they will come in. I wouldn't use him except that with the bushido he's tough to block, and if he does get blocked it opens up the chance to equip o-naginata on him. The problem with cutthroat and akuba is there is no way to equip them, but the cutthroat is a nice evasive 2drop, and the akuba is a must-block 2 drop that will often let razorjaw or yukora slip through later in the game. A 5th turn Akuba has nice synnergy w the razorjaw you played a turn earlier. The following turn he's basically got to let the razor through, or be faced with 2 dmg of akuba and up to 5 point drain.
There's really nothing wrong with having a ton of 2-drops. Akuba was always terrible, not just for this deck but for any, but Cutthroat should stay in. I run 4 Oni-Slave and I've never had a problem with drawing too many. And even if you do, that's what mulligans are for. I think this deck could run just fine on a 6-card opening hand if it needed to. I really don't see why everyone wants to run Bleeder; he's a 3/3 for 3 with no evasion and a drawback. What's so good there?
I can understand Shoal, but Heros Demise is a card that is nothing but puke. Believe me, you will see instant results after taking it out. Also, Nezumi Graverobber completely destroys Reanimator and gives Ire.deck a big problem.
EDIT: @KPD, people like the Bleeder because that's what he is, a 3/3 for three. His drawback is very small and doesn't take giant bites out of your life total. I can see it being run over cards like Akuba and Razorjaw. People, I understand the Oni helps in the mirror, but Snakes and WW have much more speed than us. Its not a race when we can't get our 4/5 through when its blocked each turn by a 1/1 token or by Hand of Honor. There are other options, believe me. Bleeder is one, Akuta, Born from Ash is another (though I don't like him) and Infernal Kirin is another (which I am fond of, but I'm fonder of having a smaller mana base).
Show me a better black 3 CC creature in kamigawa block (besides marauder).
You've got villainous ogre and bloodthirsty ogre, both of which are pretty crappy in this deck. They're 2 and 1 toughness respectively, making them easy fodder for red. The benefits from having demons in play is pretty much irrelevant. Regenerate could help with o-naginata perhaps, but bloodthirsty's creature removal is just too damn slow for an aggro deck.
Also You should rethink akuba, it is a card which - esp in monoblack, must be blocked. There are plenty of decks that rely on turn 2 STE, turn 3 Kodama's reach. In a lot of cases that is an opening for 5-6 damage from akuba.
I found hero's demise to be a useful card in block myself. Most decks run legends as a feature. Although I imagine you could raise to 4 kiku's shadow and drop or sb the demise. Most legends have equal or higher Power to toughness, and those that don't are all non-black (ie whisper handles them fine). So I could probably agree that for monoblack demise is deftly inferior to kiku's shadow.
Ill say it again because I like to give props to cards I like: the best removal this deck has is as follows:
1. Horobis Whisper
2. Kiku's Shadow
3. Sickening Shoal (though personally I no like)
I've found it fine to have Eradicate in the SB, but I don't like my line up for game 2 so I'm up for SB changes. However, I have only four point removal in my deck (you can't say Jitte is point... But it is removal). Some people go Kikus Shadow, others go Distress. Both have their ups and downs. Personally, I think that because the only thing the deck can do to protect itself from a Jitte is to play a Jitte, I like the added protection of Distress.
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Show me a better black 3 CC creature in kamigawa block (besides marauder).
How about I show you a better black TWO CC creature: Nezumi Cutthroat.
Quote from Aitrus »
Also You should rethink akuba, it is a card which - esp in monoblack, must be blocked. There are plenty of decks that rely on turn 2 STE, turn 3 Kodama's reach. In a lot of cases that is an opening for 5-6 damage from akuba.
I've tried Akuba. It seldom gets through, and is nothing more than a burn target. It works well in a Spiritcraft deck, but not so much here, esp. when the metagame is shaping up to be Control vs. Weenie. Also, you won't have much mana open like you think, if you keep putting cards into play or playing spells to clear their blockers away.
Quote from Aitrus »
I found hero's demise to be a useful card in block myself. Most decks run legends as a feature. Although I imagine you could raise to 4 kiku's shadow and drop or sb the demise. Most legends have equal or higher Power to toughness, and those that don't are all non-black (ie whisper handles them fine). So I could probably agree that for monoblack demise is deftly inferior to kiku's shadow.
I can't believe I forgot Hero's Demise. It hits that pesky Meloku where Shadow doesn't and Shoal has a tough time, and it can also get rid of the Shadow-proof Seshiro the Annointed or his children. Demise is definitely a consideration. The only problem I have with it is that it's a dead card against WW usually (is it really worth running to kill Isamaru?).
Quote from p.viola »
Is it possible to Phithing Neddle a Raving Oni-Slave?
T1: Needle
T2: Raving Oni-Slave with no Draw back
T3: O-Naginata equip
No. Pithing Needle only stops ACTIVATED abilities, which are abilities that have the format "<cost>: <effect>". Oni-Slave's ability is triggered and there is nothing in the block that can help us with that.
Quote from p.viola »
Guys in another forum are considering Shuko over Jitte...
I really shouldn't even justify that with a response, but if that other forum is seriously considering that, you should probably stop going there.
Quote from p.viola »
Just had the idea of using Kusari-Gama what do you people think? It's expensive but it gives Hand of Honnor the +1 much wanted and with a O-Naginata who will block a 6/x that will deal 6 damage to all creatures if blocked?
Kusari-Gama is far too expensive and mana-intensive. The only deck I can see it being any good in is Snakes. Also, it wouldn't deal 6 damage to all defending creatures unless you don't WANT to trample over...
@ KPDaly
No no no no no no no no no!
Heros demise is baaad, not good. Meloku, Seshiro and family, all those troublesome legends get blasted by Whisper. If you are so worried about Meloku and Seshiro, use Rend Flesh. Not only will you kill the legends that have you sweating, you'll kill other cards. Worried about dragon legends? Rend Spirit and Kiku's Shadow get them. Seriously, Demise hits so few creatures that its sickening. Targetability should be the main priority.
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What??? Why on earth would you take out a card that can not only kill your projected target but then some? Taking out Horobis Whisper for Heros Demise would be like taking out Counterspell for Hisokas Defiance; they get the same job done and more.
As for Razorjaw, yes, there are faster decks. Not only that, but there are decks that can pump out weenies or tokens that they would care if they get chumped. I valued the Razorjaw much less than I do the Bleeder, and I don't even use him.
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Now for the card choices
------------------------
shuko over jitte: Yes I know that jitte is a far stronger card than shuko, but in testing this deck I found jitte to be too slow. Odd, I know, but I didnt want to cast it turn two as I should be playing a hand, rat or oni-slave. Come turn three I still did not want to cast it. This pushed it out to the later-game stage. Shuko comes down first turn (along with o-naginata), gets some points of damage in early and helps the 2-power creatures use the o-naginata if necessary. If you prefer the power of jitte, use it, but don't disregard the shuko until trying it.
sickening shoal over horobi's whisper: Both are great removal, but I prefer the ability to keep casting my threats while still remove a creature if necessary. If you hold mana for the whisper then you are slowing up your procession of creatures and equipment. Shoal is card-disadvantage, but this deck can and should sacrifice card advantage for speed. That is what shoal provides: the ability to cast a threat while still having removal available.
sink into takenuma: Normally I don't condone the sweep cards, as they will slow up your development too much. In this case, Sink shines. A fourth-fifth turn sink for 4 cards while you have board advantage is enough to push a win through. I've found in testing that this results in a win almost every time, and really punishes control decks (like gifts)
graverobber maindeck: this one is an easy choice. The ability to combat gifts maindeck is very important and graverobber provides that while still being a 2-power creature.
takenuma bleeder over 2-power 2-drops: While cards like the nezumi cutthroat are very strong, I prefer the bleeder for two reasons. The first is that it is easier to give him an o-naginata. The second is that it is a better remove-from-game option for the shoal than a cutthroat.
Some sideboarding ideas
-----------------------
versus gifts-hana-kami: side in pithing needle and a fourth sink into takenuma. With graverobber, sink and needle you should have enough to disrupt any haze lock, while an equipped creature or two goes the distance
versus reanimator: side in the cranials and the sink. Extracting goryo's vengeance is the first step, while keeping their graveyard clean of big creatures with the graverobber.
versus black aggro/control: siding in razorjaws is a great way to fight the mirror match or against MBC. Eliminating their ability to block should lead to a quick win with your naginata-ed threats.
versus white weenie: Im having some trouble with white weenie as they have a few creatures that pose probles. 8.5 Tails is one, and the hond of honor is the other. Getting down a hand of cruelty with the o-naginata is a quick route to a win, but other suggestions would be nice. Pithing needle would work well on 8.5 Tails.
versus snakes: many people feel this is the worst matchup, but Im not fully in agreement. I will admit it is a tough fight, but you have to be fast, you have to get a trampler going quickly and you have to kill seshiro quickly. I think that this is all pretty obvious, though. Other suggestions for fighting snakes?
To people saying cutthroat > bleeder here, and razorjaw no blocking = a problem...
Do you understand the concept of o-naginata?
Cutthroat is 1 toughness, easy for red burn. He can never be equipped with o-naginata, and the deck already has oodles of 2-drops (oni slave, jitte, distress). Bleeder can't easily be burned, and can be hooked up with a o-nagi. Not saying you should run 4, but he's def. > cutthroat in most designs of Kami block MBA I think.
If you play a razorjaw and slap an o-nagi on him, or have a jitte on him, your opponent basically either kills the razor or loses the game. He's not going to be attacking you unless you've already lost the game anyways. 7/5 trample, and you think he will chump block? Or toss a jitte out for 2 kills on any 1/1 chump blockers.
Razorjaw's drawback should almost never hurt you. If it does, as I said, you were probably screwed regardless. When an aggro deck turns defensive, usually means you're screwed.
Except how is Razorjaw that much better than Yukora? Yukora is pretty much the same thing with an extra point of power that can block.
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ever looked on http://www.wizards.com it gives u lots of info on magic amd cards so if u havnt looked hav a look and it will tell u allmost anything about magic the gathering
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
Jedit, your point is the first intelligent one in a while.
Razorjaw Oni and the Bleeder's ability to be O-naged is much less feared than a turn three Cutthroat swinging for 2 while weilding a Jitte. It means counters, it means unblockable, it means game. They better have an answer for the little guy, and if they do, that's fine. They kill him, jitte goes onto another. They blast the jitte, I still got my rat doin damage. They get both, that's two pieces of removal I won't mind being out of the way and two cards they don't have compared to me. This deck is about having more threats than they have answers. You put down a Razorjaw, you give them an answer to beating you. You rely soully on Shoal and ditch a card, you take away a threat. I'm not saying shoal shouldn't be played, I'm saying its more of a dead draw and less usefull in difficult situations than Shadow or Whisper.
Shuko stinks, but if you don't have the Jitte, it does allow the majority of your creatures to be o-nag'd. If you dohave jitte, there is no arguement you can make outside of pure inability to understand the environment and the power of the card that would make me believe shuko is better in this deck.
EDIT: after reading the post, I can see I'm being pretty harsh for me. I apologies, I was set off from an entirely different reason. Apologies if I offended you.
Like a Jitte on a cutthroat is any different from a Jitte on anything else?
Draw 2 yukora's and you get to play 1. Draw 2 razorjaws and you get to play 2. Plus razorjaw = $0.29, Yukora = $6.00 for those who don't have endless pockets. I'm not saying razorjaw is better than yukora, it isn't. But you can't play with just 1 4 drop, esp not if he's a legend. Razorjaw is a damn good 4 drop and I still say his drawback is nothing in this deck.
20 life. Razorjaw w O-nagi attacking 7/5 trample. 3 turns to kill opponent unless he does something about the razorjaw. Either he blocks - in which case he isn't attacking and your inability to block doesn't matter. Or he dies. In which case your inability to block doesn't matter. Or he kills the razorjaw, in which case you no longer suffer from the inability to block.
This deck isn't meant to win on turn 52. It wins on turn 7-8. If your in a position where you need to block, you're basically in a position where you've lost the game.
Razorjaw Oni and the Bleeder's ability to be O-naged is much less feared than a turn three Cutthroat swinging for 2 while weilding a Jitte.
The earliest you can have a cuttrhoat w jitte on him is turn 4. Coincidentally the same turn you could have a bleeder swinging with a jitte equipped.
Raving Oni slave can swing turn 3 with o-naginata. Nezumi Cutthroat will be 2 dmg, nothing more. He's 1 toughness so he's also easily killed, and considering the size of your creatures, the unblockable bit really does not matter.
But you can't play with just 1 4 drop, esp not if he's a legend.
Yes, you can. Playing another one, if it wasn't a legend, would be overextending.
Of course, I'd also prefer Shuko over O-Nagi. I just don't like O-Nagi.
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Sickening Shoal has never been high on my list. Horobi's Whisper and/or Kiku's Shadow are better ideas.
After much testing, Urami's Tomb has become a favorite care of mine. Whenever I blow the world up with it, I always win soon afterward. I cannot recall a game I have lost with it set off.
Scourge of the Numai = Poop. Nezumi Cutthroat is smiley face happy. Bananas.
Lastly... DON'T use Razor Jaw Oni. It sets you into a race, and there are too many decks that will beat you.
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In defense of Razorjaw, it will set off a race you'll always win in the mirror. I'm still not running it, but it's not the worst decision.
I don't see what people have against Shoal. It's a great card, especially in a format where most of the things you'll be worried about can be killed by pitching a Marauder. I still run 4 Shoal and 4 Horobi's Whisper and I'm quite happy with that. However, Kiku's Shadow IS a card I'm considering, since I can only think of one heavily played creature it doesn't kill (Meloku).
Hand of Honor poses a threat here, and for that reason I could justify Hideous Laughter in the SB. But not MD. It kills too many of your creatures.
I'm still pretty adamant about this maindeck, but the SB still needs work:
20 Swamp
1 Tomb of Urami
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
Creatures
4 Raving Oni-Slave
4 Nezumi Graverobber
4 Nezumi Cutthroat
4 Ogre Marauder
4 Hand of Cruelty
3 Yukora, the Prisoner
4 Sickening Shoal
4 Horobi's Whisper
4 O-Naginata
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Kiku's Shadow
4 Night of Souls' Betrayal
4 Nezumi Shortfang
2 Choice of Damnations
The 4th Jitte comes in against other decks with Jitte. Remember, some of the top decks like Gifts don't look twice at the card, and I don't even think all the Snake decks run it.
Kiku's Shadow is a straight replacement for Horobi's Whisper in the mirror.
Night of Souls' Betrayal comes in against Snakes and WW.
Nezumi Shortfang comes in against Gifts and maybe Reanimator though I don't like giving them an outlet.
Choice of Damnations is to break a stalemate against control.
This deck wants Death Wish. Badly.
I'm not sold on those Myojin decks ending up competitive. Nor do I expect to see Crescent Moon, Razorjaw, Ogre Ascendant or probably Descendant of Kiyomaro in any competitive decks. I did mention the problem the deck has with Hand of Honor, and Snakes already pose a problem so one more strike against it doesn't really matter at this point. Plus, like I said, I would board in the Shadows when Whisper doesn't get the job done, so in all those cases except Kuon and Razorjar, they wouldn't be in my deck anyway. I do have to look around Saviors some more though, I'll admit that. Any suggestions on my SB in terms of actual add/dropping?
Miren is bad too. You don't want to sac the only guys in here with high toughness (Oni-Slave and Yukora) and the rest aren't worth the mana.
I wasn't playing with Jittes at first but they definitely need to be in there. The oni-slave is tricky, I often leave him in my hand until I have a razorjaw or yukora out versus blue, just because I'm scared of consuming vortex or eye of nowhere. Versus red he's pretty tight, often he'll die early to a block + burn, but with o-naginata you get good damage through and cost your oponent 2 cards.
The worst thing that happens is drawing 3 oni slaves. A bit too much pain. I'd probably only run 2 maindeck, although that turn 3 6/3 trampler is almost enough to make me want to keep 4.
I was trying to be funny stupid. I meant to say that the scourge of numai aint that great and that you'd get better results with the Cutthroat. Then I got hungry and wanted a banana.
@ KPDaly
I don't like shoal because in this deck, I would rather play a creature than ditch it to kill one. I can, however, see the potential in it and do think its a great card in the right circumstances. However, there are times where the card will not be useful at all, and I'm more worried about those times. I do not think you should take it out if it has been working, I just would rather have Distress. it gets rid of Gifts, Jitte and other painful cards before they come to be a nuisance.
@ Baal
Ya, kagemaro is controllish. In this deck, its gonna be a 2/2 by turn three or four, or obsolete if you are running shoal.
@ Vodka7up
I agree entirely with the NoSB qualm you are having. The best thing I can do is SB Onag out, but there is still the problem of having 12 creatures (N Cutthroat, N Graverobber, Ogre Murauder) dying to it as well. My deck:
Plz note, on a cell phone it is really dificult to card tag.
19 Swamps
1 Urami
1 Shizo
4 Yokura
4 Ogre Marauder
4 Nezumi Cutthroat
4 Nezumi Graverobber
4 Hand of Cruelty
4 Raving Oni Slave
4 Distress
4 Horobis Whisper
4 Jitte
3 O-naginata
SB
4 Eradicate
4 Night of Souls Betrayal
4 Nezumi Shortfang
3 Cranial Extraction
Yes, I know, SB is crap, but I have very little idea of where I'm going with it.
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Razorjaw oni = disgustingly good. Why would you block with an aggro deck? What card do you see an opponent using to hold that oni back without killing it? a 4/5 swinging on turn 5 (could be 7/5 trample pretty easily usually too) either has to be killed or you lose. Either way the no blocking thing should never hurt you. Your creatures should all be bigger than his, and some of them should be trampling/jitting most of the time. The only thing you have to fear is like cage of hands, and even then the rest of your creatures are still fat enough to carry on their dark crusade.
He also stops life loss from takenuma bleeder and raving oni-slave, which is a nice add-on. And he's non-legend, so you can play multiple copies.
As for hand of cruelty, I wasn't playing them myself because I don't have any. I've got some on order though, when they get in later they will come in. I wouldn't use him except that with the bushido he's tough to block, and if he does get blocked it opens up the chance to equip o-naginata on him. The problem with cutthroat and akuba is there is no way to equip them, but the cutthroat is a nice evasive 2drop, and the akuba is a must-block 2 drop that will often let razorjaw or yukora slip through later in the game. A 5th turn Akuba has nice synnergy w the razorjaw you played a turn earlier. The following turn he's basically got to let the razor through, or be faced with 2 dmg of akuba and up to 5 point drain.
2 Yukora the prisoner
4 razorjaw oni
4 ogre marauder
4 takenuma bleeder
4 hand of cruelty
2 Raving oni-slave
4 Horobi's whisper
3 Distress
2 Kiku's Shadow
2 Hero's Demise
4 O-Naginata
3 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands (22)
22 swamp
That is the version I run. (once I get the hand of cruelty's, and sub in my Jittes that I was not using earlier).
EDIT: @KPD, people like the Bleeder because that's what he is, a 3/3 for three. His drawback is very small and doesn't take giant bites out of your life total. I can see it being run over cards like Akuba and Razorjaw. People, I understand the Oni helps in the mirror, but Snakes and WW have much more speed than us. Its not a race when we can't get our 4/5 through when its blocked each turn by a 1/1 token or by Hand of Honor. There are other options, believe me. Bleeder is one, Akuta, Born from Ash is another (though I don't like him) and Infernal Kirin is another (which I am fond of, but I'm fonder of having a smaller mana base).
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You've got villainous ogre and bloodthirsty ogre, both of which are pretty crappy in this deck. They're 2 and 1 toughness respectively, making them easy fodder for red. The benefits from having demons in play is pretty much irrelevant. Regenerate could help with o-naginata perhaps, but bloodthirsty's creature removal is just too damn slow for an aggro deck.
Also You should rethink akuba, it is a card which - esp in monoblack, must be blocked. There are plenty of decks that rely on turn 2 STE, turn 3 Kodama's reach. In a lot of cases that is an opening for 5-6 damage from akuba.
1. Horobis Whisper
2. Kiku's Shadow
3. Sickening Shoal (though personally I no like)
I've found it fine to have Eradicate in the SB, but I don't like my line up for game 2 so I'm up for SB changes. However, I have only four point removal in my deck (you can't say Jitte is point... But it is removal). Some people go Kikus Shadow, others go Distress. Both have their ups and downs. Personally, I think that because the only thing the deck can do to protect itself from a Jitte is to play a Jitte, I like the added protection of Distress.
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How about I show you a better black TWO CC creature: Nezumi Cutthroat.
I've tried Akuba. It seldom gets through, and is nothing more than a burn target. It works well in a Spiritcraft deck, but not so much here, esp. when the metagame is shaping up to be Control vs. Weenie. Also, you won't have much mana open like you think, if you keep putting cards into play or playing spells to clear their blockers away.
I can't believe I forgot Hero's Demise. It hits that pesky Meloku where Shadow doesn't and Shoal has a tough time, and it can also get rid of the Shadow-proof Seshiro the Annointed or his children. Demise is definitely a consideration. The only problem I have with it is that it's a dead card against WW usually (is it really worth running to kill Isamaru?).
No. Pithing Needle only stops ACTIVATED abilities, which are abilities that have the format "<cost>: <effect>". Oni-Slave's ability is triggered and there is nothing in the block that can help us with that.
I really shouldn't even justify that with a response, but if that other forum is seriously considering that, you should probably stop going there.
Kusari-Gama is far too expensive and mana-intensive. The only deck I can see it being any good in is Snakes. Also, it wouldn't deal 6 damage to all defending creatures unless you don't WANT to trample over...
No no no no no no no no no!
Heros demise is baaad, not good. Meloku, Seshiro and family, all those troublesome legends get blasted by Whisper. If you are so worried about Meloku and Seshiro, use Rend Flesh. Not only will you kill the legends that have you sweating, you'll kill other cards. Worried about dragon legends? Rend Spirit and Kiku's Shadow get them. Seriously, Demise hits so few creatures that its sickening. Targetability should be the main priority.
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Hero's Demise is good. I don't knwo why I didn't think of it originally. Maybe 2 Demise and 2 Whisper. It will help our match vs Snakes.
Bleeder is meh. I would run it but I'm not thrilled too
O-Ningata has plenty of creatures to equip. Hand after Bushido, Raving, Bleeder (if ran), Marauder who is a beats with it it, Yokura and Rzorjaw
Razor-Jaw Oni must be ran. it is very good. Decks in Block really aren't that fast. let them tap, you'll be doing a lot more damage the next turn.
As for Razorjaw, yes, there are faster decks. Not only that, but there are decks that can pump out weenies or tokens that they would care if they get chumped. I valued the Razorjaw much less than I do the Bleeder, and I don't even use him.
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4x nezumi graverobber
4x raving oni-slave
4x takenuma bleeder
4x ogre marauder
4x yukora the prisoner
4x shuko
4x sickening shoal
3x sink into takenuma
2x tomb of urami
19x swamp
4x pithing needle
3x cranial extraction
3x night of souls' betrayal
4x razorjaw oni
1x sink into takenuma
Now for the card choices
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shuko over jitte: Yes I know that jitte is a far stronger card than shuko, but in testing this deck I found jitte to be too slow. Odd, I know, but I didnt want to cast it turn two as I should be playing a hand, rat or oni-slave. Come turn three I still did not want to cast it. This pushed it out to the later-game stage. Shuko comes down first turn (along with o-naginata), gets some points of damage in early and helps the 2-power creatures use the o-naginata if necessary. If you prefer the power of jitte, use it, but don't disregard the shuko until trying it.
sickening shoal over horobi's whisper: Both are great removal, but I prefer the ability to keep casting my threats while still remove a creature if necessary. If you hold mana for the whisper then you are slowing up your procession of creatures and equipment. Shoal is card-disadvantage, but this deck can and should sacrifice card advantage for speed. That is what shoal provides: the ability to cast a threat while still having removal available.
sink into takenuma: Normally I don't condone the sweep cards, as they will slow up your development too much. In this case, Sink shines. A fourth-fifth turn sink for 4 cards while you have board advantage is enough to push a win through. I've found in testing that this results in a win almost every time, and really punishes control decks (like gifts)
graverobber maindeck: this one is an easy choice. The ability to combat gifts maindeck is very important and graverobber provides that while still being a 2-power creature.
takenuma bleeder over 2-power 2-drops: While cards like the nezumi cutthroat are very strong, I prefer the bleeder for two reasons. The first is that it is easier to give him an o-naginata. The second is that it is a better remove-from-game option for the shoal than a cutthroat.
Some sideboarding ideas
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versus gifts-hana-kami: side in pithing needle and a fourth sink into takenuma. With graverobber, sink and needle you should have enough to disrupt any haze lock, while an equipped creature or two goes the distance
versus reanimator: side in the cranials and the sink. Extracting goryo's vengeance is the first step, while keeping their graveyard clean of big creatures with the graverobber.
versus black aggro/control: siding in razorjaws is a great way to fight the mirror match or against MBC. Eliminating their ability to block should lead to a quick win with your naginata-ed threats.
versus white weenie: Im having some trouble with white weenie as they have a few creatures that pose probles. 8.5 Tails is one, and the hond of honor is the other. Getting down a hand of cruelty with the o-naginata is a quick route to a win, but other suggestions would be nice. Pithing needle would work well on 8.5 Tails.
versus snakes: many people feel this is the worst matchup, but Im not fully in agreement. I will admit it is a tough fight, but you have to be fast, you have to get a trampler going quickly and you have to kill seshiro quickly. I think that this is all pretty obvious, though. Other suggestions for fighting snakes?
Do you understand the concept of o-naginata?
Cutthroat is 1 toughness, easy for red burn. He can never be equipped with o-naginata, and the deck already has oodles of 2-drops (oni slave, jitte, distress). Bleeder can't easily be burned, and can be hooked up with a o-nagi. Not saying you should run 4, but he's def. > cutthroat in most designs of Kami block MBA I think.
If you play a razorjaw and slap an o-nagi on him, or have a jitte on him, your opponent basically either kills the razor or loses the game. He's not going to be attacking you unless you've already lost the game anyways. 7/5 trample, and you think he will chump block? Or toss a jitte out for 2 kills on any 1/1 chump blockers.
Razorjaw's drawback should almost never hurt you. If it does, as I said, you were probably screwed regardless. When an aggro deck turns defensive, usually means you're screwed.
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Razorjaw Oni and the Bleeder's ability to be O-naged is much less feared than a turn three Cutthroat swinging for 2 while weilding a Jitte. It means counters, it means unblockable, it means game. They better have an answer for the little guy, and if they do, that's fine. They kill him, jitte goes onto another. They blast the jitte, I still got my rat doin damage. They get both, that's two pieces of removal I won't mind being out of the way and two cards they don't have compared to me. This deck is about having more threats than they have answers. You put down a Razorjaw, you give them an answer to beating you. You rely soully on Shoal and ditch a card, you take away a threat. I'm not saying shoal shouldn't be played, I'm saying its more of a dead draw and less usefull in difficult situations than Shadow or Whisper.
Shuko stinks, but if you don't have the Jitte, it does allow the majority of your creatures to be o-nag'd. If you dohave jitte, there is no arguement you can make outside of pure inability to understand the environment and the power of the card that would make me believe shuko is better in this deck.
EDIT: after reading the post, I can see I'm being pretty harsh for me. I apologies, I was set off from an entirely different reason. Apologies if I offended you.
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Draw 2 yukora's and you get to play 1. Draw 2 razorjaws and you get to play 2. Plus razorjaw = $0.29, Yukora = $6.00 for those who don't have endless pockets. I'm not saying razorjaw is better than yukora, it isn't. But you can't play with just 1 4 drop, esp not if he's a legend. Razorjaw is a damn good 4 drop and I still say his drawback is nothing in this deck.
20 life. Razorjaw w O-nagi attacking 7/5 trample. 3 turns to kill opponent unless he does something about the razorjaw. Either he blocks - in which case he isn't attacking and your inability to block doesn't matter. Or he dies. In which case your inability to block doesn't matter. Or he kills the razorjaw, in which case you no longer suffer from the inability to block.
This deck isn't meant to win on turn 52. It wins on turn 7-8. If your in a position where you need to block, you're basically in a position where you've lost the game.
The earliest you can have a cuttrhoat w jitte on him is turn 4. Coincidentally the same turn you could have a bleeder swinging with a jitte equipped.
Raving Oni slave can swing turn 3 with o-naginata. Nezumi Cutthroat will be 2 dmg, nothing more. He's 1 toughness so he's also easily killed, and considering the size of your creatures, the unblockable bit really does not matter.
Yes, you can. Playing another one, if it wasn't a legend, would be overextending.
Of course, I'd also prefer Shuko over O-Nagi. I just don't like O-Nagi.
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.