If you're not willing or able to buy the cards to build the best deck, you should not be discussing in the Competitive forum.
IMO, that's a really mean comment to say to a person. Not everyone will be swimming in cash. I don't have any Jittes myself, nor do many people-- do you think I shouldn't be discussing here?
Yes, I know, Yukora is pretty essential for a finisher. Razor-Jaw Oni is somewhat mediocre, but it can work as a finisher if on a budget.
Jitte is great too, but people are hating it out everywhere where KBC or Standard is being played. Pithing Needle is great, or there is Manriki-Gusari for those who can't shell out $100 to get a playset, which are hard to come by.
Manriki-Gusari: IMO, superior to Shuko. While Shuko provides no tempo loss, Gusari will add some points to toughness, and will rape WW by wiping out their Jittes, which seem to give the deck their muscle. Nezumi Graverobber can also go along his evil business without fear of getting shanked by the Jitte.
Aside from obviously killing the aforementioned piece of threatening equipment, you can kill Konda's Banner, Oathkeeper, Tatsumasa, O-Naginata, and other Gusaris. It is suspectible to getting nuked by the Needle, but most people won't go for this first unless they want to waste one of their precious Needles.
@ Surging Chaos
I don't think that was mean in the context he was speaking in. All he was saying is if you are playing a budget deck, your not going to have the same results as you would with the deck being discussed. Ya, you can ask for possible cards to switch out for budget, but don't say that you think we should optomize a build that uses Shuko and Razorjaw instead of Jitte and Yokura just because you don't have them. Discuss this deck on this forum as if you had all the cards in the set, not as a penny pincher.
@Jedit
Oh... Ya... Sideboard... Razorjaw helps us in the miror match pretty well enough... I don't like it main, but I actually may now look into putting two or three in side... However, I still will stand to my opinion that Razorjaw is inferior to many of the mainboarded cards.
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Vodka7up: Yukora has a pretty bad drawback, but that is why you should run lots of Ogres to compliment him. Raving Oni-Slave, Takenuma Bleeder, and Ogre Marauder are three great Ogres that you can run in the deck here. I only run eight non-Ogre creatures, Graverobber and Hand, and they are essential in my deck.
Another good thing to do is not to really overextend with Yukora, unless you're just playing Ogres.
Even then, I'll still take Yukora over Razor-Jaw Oni in the deck. Like Jedit said, Oni is a sideboard card for the mirror.
S_C
EDIT: Jedit is right on the things Yukora can die to. Actually, it CAN die to Sickening Shoal, but your opponent will have to waste a Kokusho or a Kagemaro to kill it, which is always good for us, or they tap 7, which is also not good due to tempo issues when playing against us.
Even if Yukora dies, no big deal. We still beat their face in with Ogres.
Now before you say you need more Jitte, you dont understand the hell I went through looking for them, calling card shops in my local area, looking in nearly all gamestops, targets and any other place that may have the rat nest deck available for about a week. Anyway the Scourge of Numai has to go, all its done for me is slow me down so I need a good replacement for him, I was considering something along the line's of either Distress or another creature, though I wouldnt know what to put in except maybe Bile Urchin as a chump blocker that can get damage through. If I can find the Jitte's I require before this thing I will replace the laughter with them, unfortunatley it dosnt look like that will be happening.
Gusari is quite good at blowing up other equipement. Since you could only get one Jitte, you're going to need something else to keep your opponent's Jittes off the table. Gusari does it; is quick, cheap, reusable destruction of Jitte. It can blow up other equipment you are probably bound to see, if people play Godo, or some other weird jank. MG can also help you if your creatures need to get equipped to O-Naginata somehow.
Hideous Laughter kills off your Hands, Cutthroats, Graverobbers and Mauradars. They are a great card but its a double edges sword in this deck.
I run 24 creatures and enjoy that number, though I also play with more equipment than you do with Jitte (im not really rich, im just the luckiest bastard in the world when it comes to drafting.) Distress works very well, and find it most useful to get rid of Gifts, Jitte, big creatures and combat tricks that may become a thorn in your side.
So, heres my suggestions:
-2 Hideous Laughter
-3 Scourge of Numai
+4 Distress
+1 Nezumi Graverobber (IMO, its just to easy to shut down Reanimator and hinder Gifts and Ire.dec. However, if they are playing Ire.dec, we really dont have a problem)
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Hideous Laughter kills off your Hands, Cutthroats, Graverobbers and Mauradars. They are a great card but its a double edges sword in this deck.
I run 24 creatures and enjoy that number, though I also play with more equipment than you do with Jitte (im not really rich, im just the luckiest bastard in the world when it comes to drafting.) Distress works very well, and find it most useful to get rid of Gifts, Jitte, big creatures and combat tricks that may become a thorn in your side.
So, heres my suggestions:
-2 Hideous Laughter
-3 Scourge of Numai
+4 Distress
+1 Nezumi Graverobber (IMO, its just to easy to shut down Reanimator and hinder Gifts and Ire.dec. However, if they are playing Ire.dec, we really dont have a problem)
The only reason I have the laughters in is because of the horrible snakes, I will only play it when I have enough creatures to survive the blast.
Night of Souls' Betrayal is probably a better option for you than Hideous Laughter. It doesn't kill as many of your creatures, and it still clears out their tokens as long as they don't have Sachi in play.
Very true. Marauder and both Nezumi die upon contact with NoSB. Perhaps there are SB options that can either avoid this (having other things to side in for these creatures) or use another card than NoSB
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Perhaps you would bring in other things to replace Marauder with. I've actually gone to putting Cutthroat in the SB to make room for more distruption (I run 4 Shoal, 4 Whisper, 4 Distress and I want to add Befoul). It's hard to tell how it will play out without knowing a whole SB. Maybe, for the Snake matchup, you board out some creatures and go with a more control build.
I played against WW. The sideboard wasn't finished because I simply ran out of time to get the deck built. MBA won 7 of 12 games before sideboarding. I was hoping Throat Slitter would be better than he was. I still think it might be good against a deck like Snakes, but I only actually ninja'ed him out once. Other times, I could have, but I didn't want to have to bounce my Hand of Cruelty to do it. Fear was a big factor in the games, with Shizo making Yukora and Nighteyes the Desecrator unblockable against WW. Waking Nightmare was quite good; Distress was kind of meh. Many of our games came down to who got Jitte first and kept it around. With the Knights getting in there a lot, a Jitte meant killing a guy you can't otherwise deal with. I won one game I had absolutely no business winning, simply because I got a Jitte and mowed down his team over the course of a couple turns.
The card I really wanted in my sideboard was Hideous Laughter. We only had time for 4 sideboard games, but MBA put up the big gooseegg. I know Hideous Laughter would have turned at least two of those games around had it been in my deck.
So, for the next build, I need to find somehting better for Throat Slitter (maybe Ogre Marauder?) and I need to get an actual sideboard.
Distress is MUCH better than Waking Nightmare in control matchups like Gifts. MBA tends to have a good matchup against other aggro decks because its creatures are naturally bigger. The control matchups are a little more tricky, so I think Distress is needed more. I was never once dissatisfied with Distress in my tests thus far.
Throat Slitter IMO costs too much for this deck. At 5 mana to hardcast or 3 and a bounce to Ninjutsu, it just takes up too many resources.
Takenuma Bleeder...blech. 3 power for 3 with a drawback isn't that great. Ogre Marauder is far better. Sure, you lose 2 toughness, but they won't be chump blocking Marauder very often, and there's not very much playable burn in this format.
O-Naginata has been my deck's all-star thus far. Adding Trample to Yukora or Oni-Slave is fun times. Speaking of which...no Oni-Slave? Where's the early hits? IMO, Oni-Slave outranks Cutthroat, since O-S is better vs. Gifts, which is a matchup I'm worried about a lot. I keep Cutthroat in the SB for Snakes and WW.
I don't see what people have against a single Tomb of Urami. It's not going to hurt you often with the number of Ogres in the deck, and it's won me a couple games I would have otherwise lost.
im not sold on the oni slave though, especially in other aggro matches like WW. they just sit back and cage of hands him them continue to smash your face, ohh and you just lightning bolted yourself.
O-naginata has been strong for me aswell, though I have run into more manriki-gusari even in the main then I would like.
Just for kicks I tried out toshiro in the board against ww, and once you get a jitte or marauder online you can aquire so devastating card advantage, however does deal with one problem; Hand of friggin Honor. I have lost more games to this guy alone and it is getting so annoying. Double NoSB just isnt worth it and hideous laughter is going to wipe out my team aswell. any suggestions?
are you still really worried about the gifts matchup with 4x graverobber md? I havent found that match to be very problematic, just have to be aware of hideous laughter in both versions and final judgement in heartbeat.dec.
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Double NoSB? How do you pull that off? Its Legendary.
Raving OniSlave can be the target of early removal and that can mean the game. Takenuma Bleeder can take its place as far as I'm concerned, but it depends on your mana base.
Tomb of Urami is great, and Shizo is very good with a legend, but don't run more than one of each.
Hand of Honor can be dealt with Hand of Cruelty. In my experience with WW, its better as a wall, letting other creatures pound away.
Double NoSB? How do you pull that off? Its Legendary.
Indeed it is. However, because NoSB generates a continuous effect, the effects of both will apply, albeit very briefly, before the "legend rule" state-based effect causes you to get rid of both. Thus, all creatures will have -2/-2, if only briefly. I can't see this being a worthwhile play very often, but it's there.
Tomb of Urami is great, and Shizo is very good with a legend, but don't run more than one of each.
I tried 2 Shizo and had no problems. Fear is important in a lot of matchups, and getting Yukora or Nighteyes in there unblocked is a large swing of damage.
Waking Nightmare? No. Distress is better.
I found Waking Nightmare to be quite good. Distress was thoroughly mediocre. Of course, I've only had the chance to test one matchup so far, but I'm going to leave Waking Nightmare in for now. It gets rid of things like North Tree and Final Judgment which you might whiff on with Distress early in the game.
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Distress is MUCH better than Waking Nightmare in control matchups like Gifts.
Probably, but we haven't gotten to that matchup yet. We're just now shifting gears to Block after spending a lot of time on T2.
Throat Slitter IMO costs too much for this deck. At 5 mana to hardcast or 3 and a bounce to Ninjutsu, it just takes up too many resources.
You're preaching to the choir, d00d. :tongue2: I'm definitely taking him out, probably for Ogre Marauder (and I'll ditch 1 Bleeder to run 4 Marauder).
Speaking of which...no Oni-Slave?
Heavens no. That guy is awful. I don't want to Bolt myself 3 times just because my opponent is playing Otherworldly Journey. A 3/3 for 2 is nice, but I'm not really interested in playing suicide Black. Hand of Honor does enough damage to me without my own creature joining in on the fun.
I don't see what people have against a single Tomb of Urami.
Creaturewise, the best you have are going to be Hand, both Nezumi, Marauder and Yokura. That right there is 19-20 creatures, depending on whether you play 3 or 4 Yokura. Over the course of the forum, there have been numberous suggestions on other creatures to run, but most are either too mediocre or don't fit the deck entirely. Raving Oni Slave is quick, powerful, can be o-naged and is an ogre (a definite gain with Yolukura and to a lesser extent Urami), but its drawback is one of the largest in the deck. Many occasions I have lost more than half my life from them while dealing little or no damage to the opponent. Dropping it is being considered. Takenuma Bleeder is the same thing with a dealable drawback. I don't know why people dislike this card, but Infernal Kirin is already creeping its way back onto my list. Its 4 mana cost for 3 power and toughness is dwarfed by its equippability, evasion and its spiritcraft.
As far as spells are concerned, Distress is too good not to have. We cannot deal with Jitte, Gifts, enchantments or KotNT when played. If we play Waking Nightmare, the opponent can just ditch the spells he doesn't need, or land. Distress also lets us see what we can expect in the following turns. Playing Distress also has the added affect of lessening the need for Manriki-Gusari, or whatever that anti-equipment equipment is called.
Removal is tricky, but my rule of thumb is this: if you play Shoal, play 4 Yokura. If you are going to ditch something, let it be something you won't miss. Otherwise, Horobi's Whisper and Kiku's Shadow are suitable removal spells.
My List:
4 Yokura
4 Nezumi Cutthroat
4 Nezumi Graverobber
4 Ogre Marauder
4 Hand of Cruelty
4 Takenuma Bleeder/Raving Oni Slave/Infernal Kirin
4 Distress
4 Horobis Whisper
4 Jitte
3 O-Naginata
1 Shizo
1 Tomb of Urami
19 Swamps
SB under construction
3 NoSB
3 Cranial Extraction
3 Nezumi Shortfang
3 Razorjaw Oni
3 Eradicate/Kiku's Shadow/Befoul
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SCG must be run by ex YuGiOh players if they came up with that list.
By many decks standards, 23 lands is a lot. I have 21 and really have no problem with my mana base. Keep in mind Yokura is the highest casting cost spell in the deck.
Shuko? Shuko??? I'm sorry, did these people just overlook the most powerful equipment card in block? If it were Manriki, I'd understand... A bit. But this is disgusting, don't use Shuko.
Sink into Takenuma is stupid on so many levels that I suddenly lost all hope in whoever wrote this article.
3 Marauder and 3 Cutthroat? Yes, I agree, lets take our best creatures and get rid of a few of them. Brilliant. And how many times will we need spot removal? Not enough to have a playset of S. Shoal or some Whispers or Shadows.
Well, since there is no other card thatcould be so obviously misplaced that I would expect the decklist running around the casual room, ill just end this OH WAIT, look at this! Razorjaw Oni, MAINBOARD. Great idea, lets give all other agro/suicide decks a head start. I mean, its not like WW and Snakes can generate a larger amount of threats than we can. Sideboard that right now and replace it with a playset of Nezumi Graverobber.
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I don't purport to be any expert on MBA yet, as my testing has been somewhat limited (only about 25 games total), but swapping out Umezawa's Jitte for Shuko seems like a very, very enticing move to make. This deck is *suicide* black, as the thread title suggests, so all cards we consider ought to be evaluated in terms of how much faster it gets us to deal 20 damage. The Jitte, in all practical terms, should be counted as a four-drop, since this deck ideally wants to drop a critter on turns two and three, and since when it does hit the table, you want to equip it as soon as possible. Given that we're already running Yokura, multiple three drops, and possibly Razorjaw Oni, Jitte seems to be making the high end of our mana curve seem very full; the goal of the deck as a pure aggro deck is becoming very distracted. Shuko is useful because it can get some of our little beaters large enough for O-Naginata without any loss in tempo, and it's another one-drop we can play.
Concerning other cards:
1) Sink Into Takenuma, as someone previously suggested, is a terrible choice. It is just too slow: By the time we can hardcast it, many opponents will have basically empty hands. If we do decide to sweep up everything on turn 4, what results is an often crushing loss of tempo.
2) Razorjaw Oni really isn't all that great. He's yet another four-drop and his 4/5 body isn't really great for his price. Yukora is better.
3) Infernal Kirin's evasion might make him a good fit for the deck, but I can't justify adding another four-drop unless I can convince myself that the card is a game winner. I have not playtested it very much, but on paper, he doesn't seem that great.
4) Tomb of Urami is very, very useful. When played around turn 5-6 (you should have dealt a significant amount of damage by now), it is a gamewinner. I run two, and considering running a third. In essence, it allows you to play the game as if your opponent starts out with 15 life. With cheap equip effects from Shuko and O-Naginata, and with the token's built in evasion, it's a wrecking ball.
I guess my general comment is: don't worry about finessing each match. The deck will win on turn 5-7 very consistently if you don't cram the deck with slow four-drops that can be replaced with cheaper alternatives.
This deck has evolved well past being Suicide Black into a more refined MBA build, and I have asked the mods to change this into an official MBA thread, with no response.
There is NO WAY you can say Shuko is better than Jitte in this or any deck. Jitte (1) helps prepare for a finishing blow with a quick +4-8 damage, (2) kills off problematic things like Hand of Honor, and (3) helps replace life lost to things like Bleeder or Oni-Slave depending on build.
Aggro and Suicide are two different things. However, I don't buy that you can say that because a deck is suicide, a terrible card can replace a great card. Really, I don't care if your playing Mono Black Pineapple, Jitte is better than Shuko 99% of the time.
Wait... *punches numbers into calculator*
Sorry, 100%
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IMO, that's a really mean comment to say to a person. Not everyone will be swimming in cash. I don't have any Jittes myself, nor do many people-- do you think I shouldn't be discussing here?
Yes, I know, Yukora is pretty essential for a finisher. Razor-Jaw Oni is somewhat mediocre, but it can work as a finisher if on a budget.
Jitte is great too, but people are hating it out everywhere where KBC or Standard is being played. Pithing Needle is great, or there is Manriki-Gusari for those who can't shell out $100 to get a playset, which are hard to come by.
My updated decklist from sometime:
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Tomb of Urami
4 Nezumi Graverobber
4 Raving Oni-Slave
4 Hand of Cruelty
4 Takenuma Bleeder
4 Ogre Marauder
3 Yukora, the Prisoner
4 O-Naginata
4 Manriki-Gusari
4 Sickening Shoal
3 Horobi's Whisper
4 Hero's Demise
4 Crainial Extraction
3 Sink into Takenuma
4 Night of Soul's Betrayal
Manriki-Gusari: IMO, superior to Shuko. While Shuko provides no tempo loss, Gusari will add some points to toughness, and will rape WW by wiping out their Jittes, which seem to give the deck their muscle. Nezumi Graverobber can also go along his evil business without fear of getting shanked by the Jitte.
Aside from obviously killing the aforementioned piece of threatening equipment, you can kill Konda's Banner, Oathkeeper, Tatsumasa, O-Naginata, and other Gusaris. It is suspectible to getting nuked by the Needle, but most people won't go for this first unless they want to waste one of their precious Needles.
S_C
I don't think that was mean in the context he was speaking in. All he was saying is if you are playing a budget deck, your not going to have the same results as you would with the deck being discussed. Ya, you can ask for possible cards to switch out for budget, but don't say that you think we should optomize a build that uses Shuko and Razorjaw instead of Jitte and Yokura just because you don't have them. Discuss this deck on this forum as if you had all the cards in the set, not as a penny pincher.
@Jedit
Oh... Ya... Sideboard... Razorjaw helps us in the miror match pretty well enough... I don't like it main, but I actually may now look into putting two or three in side... However, I still will stand to my opinion that Razorjaw is inferior to many of the mainboarded cards.
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That aside:
Vodka7up: Yukora has a pretty bad drawback, but that is why you should run lots of Ogres to compliment him. Raving Oni-Slave, Takenuma Bleeder, and Ogre Marauder are three great Ogres that you can run in the deck here. I only run eight non-Ogre creatures, Graverobber and Hand, and they are essential in my deck.
Another good thing to do is not to really overextend with Yukora, unless you're just playing Ogres.
Even then, I'll still take Yukora over Razor-Jaw Oni in the deck. Like Jedit said, Oni is a sideboard card for the mirror.
S_C
EDIT: Jedit is right on the things Yukora can die to. Actually, it CAN die to Sickening Shoal, but your opponent will have to waste a Kokusho or a Kagemaro to kill it, which is always good for us, or they tap 7, which is also not good due to tempo issues when playing against us.
Even if Yukora dies, no big deal. We still beat their face in with Ogres.
1 x Tomb of Urami
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
3x Nezumi Graverobber
4x Hand of Cruelty
4x Raving Oni Slave
4x Nezumi Cutthroat
4x Ogre Marauder
4x Takenuma Bleeder
3x Yukora, the Prisoner
3x Scourge of Numai
4x Horobi's Whisper
4x O-Naginata
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Now before you say you need more Jitte, you dont understand the hell I went through looking for them, calling card shops in my local area, looking in nearly all gamestops, targets and any other place that may have the rat nest deck available for about a week. Anyway the Scourge of Numai has to go, all its done for me is slow me down so I need a good replacement for him, I was considering something along the line's of either Distress or another creature, though I wouldnt know what to put in except maybe Bile Urchin as a chump blocker that can get damage through. If I can find the Jitte's I require before this thing I will replace the laughter with them, unfortunatley it dosnt look like that will be happening.
-3 Scourge +3 Manriki-Gusari
Gusari is quite good at blowing up other equipement. Since you could only get one Jitte, you're going to need something else to keep your opponent's Jittes off the table. Gusari does it; is quick, cheap, reusable destruction of Jitte. It can blow up other equipment you are probably bound to see, if people play Godo, or some other weird jank. MG can also help you if your creatures need to get equipped to O-Naginata somehow.
S_C
I run 24 creatures and enjoy that number, though I also play with more equipment than you do with Jitte (im not really rich, im just the luckiest bastard in the world when it comes to drafting.) Distress works very well, and find it most useful to get rid of Gifts, Jitte, big creatures and combat tricks that may become a thorn in your side.
So, heres my suggestions:
-2 Hideous Laughter
-3 Scourge of Numai
+4 Distress
+1 Nezumi Graverobber (IMO, its just to easy to shut down Reanimator and hinder Gifts and Ire.dec. However, if they are playing Ire.dec, we really dont have a problem)
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The only reason I have the laughters in is because of the horrible snakes, I will only play it when I have enough creatures to survive the blast.
On another note, I picked up my first Jitte at Regionals, for only $10 from the vendor. Happy days.
Anywho, NoSB might be quite good against Snakews. I'll certainly stay open to that idea.
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4 Nezumi Graverobber
4 Nezumi Cutthroat
4 Takenuma Bleeder
3 Yukora, the Prisoner
3 Throat Slitter
4 Sickening Shoal
3 Distress
4 Waking Nightmare
21 Swamp
2 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
3 Befoul
3 Nezumi Shortfang
3 Horobi's Whisper
3 Skullsnatcher
I played against WW. The sideboard wasn't finished because I simply ran out of time to get the deck built. MBA won 7 of 12 games before sideboarding. I was hoping Throat Slitter would be better than he was. I still think it might be good against a deck like Snakes, but I only actually ninja'ed him out once. Other times, I could have, but I didn't want to have to bounce my Hand of Cruelty to do it. Fear was a big factor in the games, with Shizo making Yukora and Nighteyes the Desecrator unblockable against WW. Waking Nightmare was quite good; Distress was kind of meh. Many of our games came down to who got Jitte first and kept it around. With the Knights getting in there a lot, a Jitte meant killing a guy you can't otherwise deal with. I won one game I had absolutely no business winning, simply because I got a Jitte and mowed down his team over the course of a couple turns.
The card I really wanted in my sideboard was Hideous Laughter. We only had time for 4 sideboard games, but MBA put up the big gooseegg. I know Hideous Laughter would have turned at least two of those games around had it been in my deck.
So, for the next build, I need to find somehting better for Throat Slitter (maybe Ogre Marauder?) and I need to get an actual sideboard.
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Throat Slitter IMO costs too much for this deck. At 5 mana to hardcast or 3 and a bounce to Ninjutsu, it just takes up too many resources.
Takenuma Bleeder...blech. 3 power for 3 with a drawback isn't that great. Ogre Marauder is far better. Sure, you lose 2 toughness, but they won't be chump blocking Marauder very often, and there's not very much playable burn in this format.
O-Naginata has been my deck's all-star thus far. Adding Trample to Yukora or Oni-Slave is fun times. Speaking of which...no Oni-Slave? Where's the early hits? IMO, Oni-Slave outranks Cutthroat, since O-S is better vs. Gifts, which is a matchup I'm worried about a lot. I keep Cutthroat in the SB for Snakes and WW.
I don't see what people have against a single Tomb of Urami. It's not going to hurt you often with the number of Ogres in the deck, and it's won me a couple games I would have otherwise lost.
O-naginata has been strong for me aswell, though I have run into more manriki-gusari even in the main then I would like.
Just for kicks I tried out toshiro in the board against ww, and once you get a jitte or marauder online you can aquire so devastating card advantage, however does deal with one problem; Hand of friggin Honor. I have lost more games to this guy alone and it is getting so annoying. Double NoSB just isnt worth it and hideous laughter is going to wipe out my team aswell. any suggestions?
are you still really worried about the gifts matchup with 4x graverobber md? I havent found that match to be very problematic, just have to be aware of hideous laughter in both versions and final judgement in heartbeat.dec.
Anon - control RGW
Raving OniSlave can be the target of early removal and that can mean the game. Takenuma Bleeder can take its place as far as I'm concerned, but it depends on your mana base.
Tomb of Urami is great, and Shizo is very good with a legend, but don't run more than one of each.
Hand of Honor can be dealt with Hand of Cruelty. In my experience with WW, its better as a wall, letting other creatures pound away.
Waking Nightmare? No. Distress is better.
Ogre Marauder + Jitte/Onag = Happy Times. Definetly worth a playset.
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Indeed it is. However, because NoSB generates a continuous effect, the effects of both will apply, albeit very briefly, before the "legend rule" state-based effect causes you to get rid of both. Thus, all creatures will have -2/-2, if only briefly. I can't see this being a worthwhile play very often, but it's there.
I tried 2 Shizo and had no problems. Fear is important in a lot of matchups, and getting Yukora or Nighteyes in there unblocked is a large swing of damage.
I found Waking Nightmare to be quite good. Distress was thoroughly mediocre. Of course, I've only had the chance to test one matchup so far, but I'm going to leave Waking Nightmare in for now. It gets rid of things like North Tree and Final Judgment which you might whiff on with Distress early in the game.
Probably, but we haven't gotten to that matchup yet. We're just now shifting gears to Block after spending a lot of time on T2.
You're preaching to the choir, d00d. :tongue2: I'm definitely taking him out, probably for Ogre Marauder (and I'll ditch 1 Bleeder to run 4 Marauder).
Heavens no. That guy is awful. I don't want to Bolt myself 3 times just because my opponent is playing Otherworldly Journey. A 3/3 for 2 is nice, but I'm not really interested in playing suicide Black. Hand of Honor does enough damage to me without my own creature joining in on the fun.
I'll probably play 1 of those.
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As far as spells are concerned, Distress is too good not to have. We cannot deal with Jitte, Gifts, enchantments or KotNT when played. If we play Waking Nightmare, the opponent can just ditch the spells he doesn't need, or land. Distress also lets us see what we can expect in the following turns. Playing Distress also has the added affect of lessening the need for Manriki-Gusari, or whatever that anti-equipment equipment is called.
Removal is tricky, but my rule of thumb is this: if you play Shoal, play 4 Yokura. If you are going to ditch something, let it be something you won't miss. Otherwise, Horobi's Whisper and Kiku's Shadow are suitable removal spells.
My List:
4 Yokura
4 Nezumi Cutthroat
4 Nezumi Graverobber
4 Ogre Marauder
4 Hand of Cruelty
4 Takenuma Bleeder/Raving Oni Slave/Infernal Kirin
4 Distress
4 Horobis Whisper
4 Jitte
3 O-Naginata
1 Shizo
1 Tomb of Urami
19 Swamps
SB under construction
3 NoSB
3 Cranial Extraction
3 Nezumi Shortfang
3 Razorjaw Oni
3 Eradicate/Kiku's Shadow/Befoul
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By many decks standards, 23 lands is a lot. I have 21 and really have no problem with my mana base. Keep in mind Yokura is the highest casting cost spell in the deck.
Shuko? Shuko??? I'm sorry, did these people just overlook the most powerful equipment card in block? If it were Manriki, I'd understand... A bit. But this is disgusting, don't use Shuko.
Sink into Takenuma is stupid on so many levels that I suddenly lost all hope in whoever wrote this article.
3 Marauder and 3 Cutthroat? Yes, I agree, lets take our best creatures and get rid of a few of them. Brilliant. And how many times will we need spot removal? Not enough to have a playset of S. Shoal or some Whispers or Shadows.
Well, since there is no other card thatcould be so obviously misplaced that I would expect the decklist running around the casual room, ill just end this OH WAIT, look at this! Razorjaw Oni, MAINBOARD. Great idea, lets give all other agro/suicide decks a head start. I mean, its not like WW and Snakes can generate a larger amount of threats than we can. Sideboard that right now and replace it with a playset of Nezumi Graverobber.
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Concerning other cards:
1) Sink Into Takenuma, as someone previously suggested, is a terrible choice. It is just too slow: By the time we can hardcast it, many opponents will have basically empty hands. If we do decide to sweep up everything on turn 4, what results is an often crushing loss of tempo.
2) Razorjaw Oni really isn't all that great. He's yet another four-drop and his 4/5 body isn't really great for his price. Yukora is better.
3) Infernal Kirin's evasion might make him a good fit for the deck, but I can't justify adding another four-drop unless I can convince myself that the card is a game winner. I have not playtested it very much, but on paper, he doesn't seem that great.
4) Tomb of Urami is very, very useful. When played around turn 5-6 (you should have dealt a significant amount of damage by now), it is a gamewinner. I run two, and considering running a third. In essence, it allows you to play the game as if your opponent starts out with 15 life. With cheap equip effects from Shuko and O-Naginata, and with the token's built in evasion, it's a wrecking ball.
I guess my general comment is: don't worry about finessing each match. The deck will win on turn 5-7 very consistently if you don't cram the deck with slow four-drops that can be replaced with cheaper alternatives.
There is NO WAY you can say Shuko is better than Jitte in this or any deck. Jitte (1) helps prepare for a finishing blow with a quick +4-8 damage, (2) kills off problematic things like Hand of Honor, and (3) helps replace life lost to things like Bleeder or Oni-Slave depending on build.
Wait... *punches numbers into calculator*
Sorry, 100%
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Shuko is a million times better thyan Umezewa's Jitte. Just liek Transmute Artifact is a million times betetr than Tinker.