I think that Tallowisp should be completely dropped. It forces you to use up space for only mildly useful cards. However, most of the recently posted versions...well...suck. Here's the version I've been playing:
Kitsune Blademaster is the only 3+ cc card that should make it to the maindeck. Why? It's a house against Jitte by killing equipped creatures before they can add counters. However, anything else with 3+ cc is going to end up hurting you, as you won't always have the mana for it, and you want to drop your army quickly. You'd be surprised at how useful that can be. 8.5 Tails is incredible in this deck, as well. It stops mirror stalemates, and is incredible by itself, much less with the rest of your army. Stopping spot-removal is rather great.
As for the SB, I think it's the most effective as of current. Empty-Shrine Kannushi is a great card in the mirror, obviously. Hokori has super-power versus control decks like Gifts. Opal-Eye is nice versus other aggro decks and RDW. Pithing Needle is good all-around, but I usually board it in versus Gifts to shut down Hazelock and Meloku. Promise of Bunrei is the more unique choice. I board it in against a bunch of different things, primarily RDW and Mono-Black, which have enough spot-removal to trigger it. Mono-Black and Gifts also have Hideous Laughter, and Promise of Bunrei is nice if you accidentally overextend. Don't forget that you can nuke your own creatures with Jitte to trigger it. I did that once. =/
I have to agree that splashing any color would be terrible. With the double-white costs of Hand of Honor, SotPC, and 8.5 Tails, your best creatures, you always need 2 plains on hand to cast them. Splashing hurts that consistency.
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ever looked on http://www.wizards.com it gives u lots of info on magic amd cards so if u havnt looked hav a look and it will tell u allmost anything about magic the gathering
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
Great points, GRAH. I'm constructing a build of White Weenie myself, and your comments have been very helpful. I was looking at Ryan Cimera's Protour deck, but since Saviors seems to have added a few good white cards to our cardpool, it's great to see a more updated version.
How does WW typically do versus a deck like Gifts?
Depends. Hideous Laughter is a real annoyance, but it can be avoided if you don't overextend. I try to keep a maximum of 3-4 creatures out at once. Less, usually, with Jitte out. G2, Promise of Bunrei comes from the board to recover from Laughter, and Hokori also comes out to slow them down.
Also, after that post, I've done -1 Isamaru +1 8.5 Tails. 8.5 Tails is the true killer. Jitte is not. Once 8.5 safely hits the board, you've probably won.
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ever looked on http://www.wizards.com it gives u lots of info on magic amd cards so if u havnt looked hav a look and it will tell u allmost anything about magic the gathering
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
It seems like a WWLegends (Godo, Yosei, Honor-Worn Shaku, etc.) deck minus splash...or a normal WW deck minus the good weenies...which really isn't that good. Either go for WWLegends (with red and green), or go for WW. Making the midpoint seems...weak. Especially since you have no accel to get you into Patron, and you're playing almost as many creature boosters as you are creatures..
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ever looked on http://www.wizards.com it gives u lots of info on magic amd cards so if u havnt looked hav a look and it will tell u allmost anything about magic the gathering
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
Im not so sure that Tallowwisp is in the deck for any reason other than it gets around Hideous Laughter on an inexpensive critter. The enchantments that wound up in the deck after that point came entirely from realizing that Tallowisp could be abused by getting Cage of Hands among other enchant creatures. I also think everyone is underestimating the strength of Promise of Bunrei. Last year I played Rotlung Reanimator in T2 and it was amazing. Promise of Bunrei turns all of WW's crits into Rotlung Reanimator.
I'm having trouble with the snakes matchup. Can anyone give me advice about how to play this matchup out? It's supposed to be an easy win for ww, right?
I test this deck and isn't bas vs several competitive decks.
I could play Patron in 4 mana sacrificing one of the 10 fox (2cc)
Hideus laughter is a big problem if Day of destiny aren't in play . What can I put in SB for it?
Cards in SB like Pithing Needle and Terashi's Grasp are useful in several much up. I like to play this deck in PTQ Los Angeles with some changes.
Do you have any idea for SB?
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It seems like a WWLegends (Godo, Yosei, Honor-Worn Shaku, etc.) deck minus splash...or a normal WW deck minus the good weenies...which really isn't that good. Either go for WWLegends (with red and green), or go for WW. Making the midpoint seems...weak. Especially since you have no accel to get you into Patron, and you're playing almost as many creature boosters as you are creatures..
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H/W list Latest personal build: -Obliterate-shrine -My own RDW
I'm having trouble with the snakes matchup. Can anyone give me advice about how to play this matchup out? It's supposed to be an easy win for ww, right?
Do whatever you can to kill Seshiro. He gives snakes their potency, and makes Sosuke's Summons a real threat.
Racing them wouldn't be a bad idea, as we are the fastest aggro deck in block.
Is shining shoal essential to this deck? when I play with shoal I find it pretty useful. The deck looks good. I would add pithing needle though. Pithing needle really hurts control.
Some explination is in order I think for certain cards. First off...no Tallowisps. I think they are just bad and slow down the deck. You end up playing MWC and not WW.
Secondly...yes I'm splashing for cranial extraction with no land fetch. It's not that hard to get 1 Tendo out. Nobody will expect it and with the small number of decks that really give WW a problem after the board I'll know exactly what to go for.
I'm taking sugestions. I won't guarantee that I'll take them but I'm open to them.:grin2:
I don't like Charge Across Araba because I never get 5 lands with only 22. Some people might.. but I NEVER do.
Ghostly Prison, while a good card, has more of a control feel to it and should be left out of WW IMO.
I agree with you on the Tallowisp thing but prefer Shining Shoal and Indomitable Will to Blessed Breath and Otherworldly Journey.
The problem with the Extraction thing is
1) White Weenie would rather lay down a threat then remove some cards usually.. and
2) It won't be a surprise. The Ice Bridges are md and the Extraction aren't. Your opponent will see a Tendo and think that you might be splashing for something.
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Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.
I don't like Charge Across Araba because I never get 5 lands with only 22. Some people might.. but I NEVER do.
Ghostly Prison, while a good card, has more of a control feel to it and should be left out of WW IMO.
I agree with you on the Tallowisp thing but prefer Shining Shoal and Indomitable Will to Blessed Breath and Otherworldly Journey.
The problem with the Extraction thing is
1) White Weenie would rather lay down a threat then remove some cards usually.. and
2) It won't be a surprise. The Ice Bridges are md and the Extraction aren't. Your opponent will see a Tendo and think that you might be splashing for something.
I would remove all your "spells" and replace with a few Indomitable Wills and 4x Shining Shoal. That leaves you with another 4 slots. Hmm.. I like Hokori, Dust Drinker
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Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.
Hokori is a must vs the likes of gifts and TOGIT (At least before they play their own Hokokri :)), I'd like to find a couple of places for 1-3 maindeck. I agree with you Raia, I too prefer the non-wisp version, but... another idea...
...One of the most interesting WW deck lists had included Tendo Ice bridge and a couple of Cloudcrest lakes (the U/W Tap land from Champions) for Meloku, which is quite cool but it's not really worth it... Still, any thoughts/comments on this?
...One of the most interesting WW deck lists had included Tendo Ice bridge and a couple of Cloudcrest lakes (the U/W Tap land from Champions) for Meloku, which is quite cool but it's not really worth it... Still, any thoughts/comments on this?
While I do think that it was a solid "idea".. WW tends to be somewhat faster than a 5-mana creature. I think it would be "win more"
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Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.
In general, how does sideboarding in WW work? I obviously know what to put in, but what do you take out in various games (like mirror matches, snakes, sui black, Gifts, etc...)?
Mainly I wanna know how to board against those 4/5 color monstrosities carrying Meloku, Kodama, and Kokusho, and basically whatever they feel like.
That is one of the main reasons I board the Tallowisp engine. There men are huge but you can usually push through for some early damage and then Cage of Hands a man or two while you oush the last points of damage through. That or 8.5.
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Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.
First of all the reason why I decided to go tallowisp is because of hideous laughter. Most decks in Block run green/black or black/another color. Also cage of hands is great anwser for dragons.
hand of honor: This is guy is great because of all the black removal. We need to have creatures on the board to win and this guy stays on the board. Black has a real tough time handling him.
8.5 tales: Mana intensive but is great in the mid/late game. Its sweet in the mirror. Protects everything on the board. It can protect jittes and jittes my friends wins games.
isamaru: 1 for a 2/2 with no draw back is wild. Does damage quickly. I'm probably going to put 3 of em in my deck.
lantern kami: 1 for a 1/1 with flying is pretty good. Most decks don't run flyers in the early game so this guy can do some damage.
tallowisp:this guy fetches all your combat tricks and anwsers to creatures. I think he deserves be in this deck.
pale curtain: can stop hana locks, stops dragons abilities, stops creatures from being brought back from the grave, and its a 2/2 for 2. its pretty solid card.
kami of ancient law: right now enchantment are the 2nd best thing that hurts WW (the first is final judgement and laughter) night of souls' betrayal really slow us down. law can stop this. Ghostly prison slow us down, law can stop this. Reverence is gaining some popularity, law can stop it.
jitte: do I have to explain
blessed breath: protects our creatures from removal and its an arcane. This is never a dead card
wills:makes our creatures big and stop them from being killed my hideous laughter. I like it.
cage of hands: stops the treats
shining shoal: never a dead card. Prevent damage and send it right back where it came from. I love it.
For SB I came up with this
4 Celestial Kirin (aggro decks)
4 Hokori, Dust Drinker (control)
3 Nikko-Onna (against tallowisp WW's and hondens and anything else that runs enchantments)
1 8.5 tales (for mirror)
3 pithing needle (stops kagemaro, meloku, and tops)
I've been checking the t8 lists for some of the results, and I've noticed people putting Orb of Dreams in their Sideboards. Am I missing something? I don't understand how this card can be mildly useful. Right now my board looks like:
4 Kami of Ancient Law
3 Pithing Needle
1 Hokori, Dust Drinker
3 Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo
3 Manriki-Gusari
1 *ultra secret tech* (yeah, haven't found anything)
I've been checking the t8 lists for some of the results, and I've noticed people putting Orb of Dreams in their Sideboards. Am I missing something? I don't understand how this card can be mildly useful. Right now
It goes like this :
1) WW doesn't have any haste creatures.
2) The worst matchup WW has is vs. control decks that's heavy on creature hate - this includes black Gifts with kagemaro + whipser + laugther / Togit control with Myojin, and delaying their land production by one turn can save WW because WW has significantly lower curve
3) When Gifts control or Togits control resolves meloku / yosei respectively and you can finish them off with that extra 3 ~ 4 damage, then you'd love to have them come into play tapped. ESPECIALLY with meloku and his flying image tokens.
4) When it's combined with hokori, it can lock out control decks like no tomorrow. But in that condition, it's more of a "win more card"
I hokori/orb lock seems really good. I can easly this shutting down control. The one match up that I've being working on the most if MBA. Game 1 is about 50/50 and game 2 might be worst. Hand of honor is good in this but they do have things that can kill it (hideous laughter and jitte). MBA's that run hideous laughter main is very hard to kill. What SB cards would you put in?
agiainst MBA, you bring in (or MD) otherwordly journey (vs Oni-slaves and yokuras), kitsune blademasters and manriki gusari. remember not to overextend. they also seem to have problems with higher tougness critters. Here's my current WW lsit (that tends to rip MBA a new one)
22 land
21 Plains
1 Eiganjo castle
22 Creatures
3 Isamaru
4 Eight-and-a-half-tails
4 hand of honor
4 Samurai of the pale curtain
4 Lantern Kami
3 Kitsune Blademaster
16 spells
4 otherworldly journey
4 jitte
3 manriki-gusari
3 Shining Shoal
2 Charge across the Araba
21 Plains
3 Eight-and-a-Half Tails
4 Hand of Honor
4 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3 Kami of Ancient Law
3 Kitsune Blademaster
4 Lantern Kami
4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
3 Otherworldly Journey
3 Shining Shoal
4 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Empty-Shrine Kannushi
2 Hokori, Dust Drinker
3 Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo
3 Pithing Needle
3 Promise of Bunrei
Kitsune Blademaster is the only 3+ cc card that should make it to the maindeck. Why? It's a house against Jitte by killing equipped creatures before they can add counters. However, anything else with 3+ cc is going to end up hurting you, as you won't always have the mana for it, and you want to drop your army quickly. You'd be surprised at how useful that can be. 8.5 Tails is incredible in this deck, as well. It stops mirror stalemates, and is incredible by itself, much less with the rest of your army. Stopping spot-removal is rather great.
As for the SB, I think it's the most effective as of current. Empty-Shrine Kannushi is a great card in the mirror, obviously. Hokori has super-power versus control decks like Gifts. Opal-Eye is nice versus other aggro decks and RDW. Pithing Needle is good all-around, but I usually board it in versus Gifts to shut down Hazelock and Meloku. Promise of Bunrei is the more unique choice. I board it in against a bunch of different things, primarily RDW and Mono-Black, which have enough spot-removal to trigger it. Mono-Black and Gifts also have Hideous Laughter, and Promise of Bunrei is nice if you accidentally overextend. Don't forget that you can nuke your own creatures with Jitte to trigger it. I did that once. =/
I have to agree that splashing any color would be terrible. With the double-white costs of Hand of Honor, SotPC, and 8.5 Tails, your best creatures, you always need 2 plains on hand to cast them. Splashing hurts that consistency.
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
How does WW typically do versus a deck like Gifts?
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Also, after that post, I've done -1 Isamaru +1 8.5 Tails. 8.5 Tails is the true killer. Jitte is not. Once 8.5 safely hits the board, you've probably won.
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
Any suggestion for Sideboard?
Creatures 22
3x Isamaru
4x Samurai of the Pale Curtain
3x Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
3x Sensei, golden Tail
3x Hokori, Dust Drinker
3x Nagao
3x Patron of the Kitsune
Others 15
4x Blessed Breath
1x Otherworldly Journey
4x Umezawa’s Jitte
3x Day of Destiny
3x Shining Shoal
Lands 23
1x Eiganjo Caslte
22x Plainss
SB
I'm not sure. (Terashis Grasp, Ghostly Prison, Pithing Needle what else?)
Latest personal build:
-Obliterate-shrine
-My own RDW
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate the crimes; and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
I could play Patron in 4 mana sacrificing one of the 10 fox (2cc)
Hideus laughter is a big problem if Day of destiny aren't in play . What can I put in SB for it?
Cards in SB like Pithing Needle and Terashi's Grasp are useful in several much up. I like to play this deck in PTQ Los Angeles with some changes.
Do you have any idea for SB?
Latest personal build:
-Obliterate-shrine
-My own RDW
Do whatever you can to kill Seshiro. He gives snakes their potency, and makes Sosuke's Summons a real threat.
Racing them wouldn't be a bad idea, as we are the fastest aggro deck in block.
S_C
21 plains
1 eiganjo castle
3 Isamaru, hound of konda
3 Eight-and-a-half-tails
4 lantern Kami
4 Samurai of the pail curtain
4 kami of ancient law
4 tallowisp
4 hand of honor
4 Umezawa's Jitte
3 blessed breath
3 indomitable will
2 cage of hands
Sideboard:
1 Eight-and-a-half-tails
4 hokori, dust drinker
3 manriki-gusari
2 nikko-onna
3 reciprocate
1 cage of hands
1 blessed breath
any suggestions on SB cards or how to SB against each deck type?
here is a SB I made up.
4 Hokori, Dust Drinker(control)
3 Nikko-Onna (control, honden)
4 pithing needle (control, aggro)
4 Manriki-Gusari (aggro)
Then again.. I'm not particularily fond of the Tallowisp version and prefer the version without.
3 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
4 Hand of Honor
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Kami of Ancient Law
4 Lantern Kami
4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
Spells
2 Blessed Breath
3 Charge Across the Araba
2 Ghostly Prison
3 Otherworldly Journey
3 Manriki-Gusari
3 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands
1 Eiganjo Castle
17 Plains
4 Tendo Ice Bridge
3 Nikko-Onna
1 Blessed Breath
4 Cranial Extraction
2 Shining Shoal
3 Genju of the Fields
2 Promise of Bunrei
Some explination is in order I think for certain cards. First off...no Tallowisps. I think they are just bad and slow down the deck. You end up playing MWC and not WW.
Secondly...yes I'm splashing for cranial extraction with no land fetch. It's not that hard to get 1 Tendo out. Nobody will expect it and with the small number of decks that really give WW a problem after the board I'll know exactly what to go for.
I'm taking sugestions. I won't guarantee that I'll take them but I'm open to them.:grin2:
-John Lennon
Current Decks
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Ghostly Prison, while a good card, has more of a control feel to it and should be left out of WW IMO.
I agree with you on the Tallowisp thing but prefer Shining Shoal and Indomitable Will to Blessed Breath and Otherworldly Journey.
The problem with the Extraction thing is
1) White Weenie would rather lay down a threat then remove some cards usually.. and
2) It won't be a surprise. The Ice Bridges are md and the Extraction aren't. Your opponent will see a Tendo and think that you might be splashing for something.
-John Lennon
Current Decks
GUBRHeartbeat Combo
BGRizzo Fo Shizzo
BWVariants
RGGruul Beats
RGWZoo
...One of the most interesting WW deck lists had included Tendo Ice bridge and a couple of Cloudcrest lakes (the U/W Tap land from Champions) for Meloku, which is quite cool but it's not really worth it... Still, any thoughts/comments on this?
While I do think that it was a solid "idea".. WW tends to be somewhat faster than a 5-mana creature. I think it would be "win more"
Mainly I wanna know how to board against those 4/5 color monstrosities carrying Meloku, Kodama, and Kokusho, and basically whatever they feel like.
There is no dark side of the moon. Truth is, it's all dark.
4 hand of honor
3 8.5 tales
2 hound
4 lantern kami
4 tallowisp
3 pale curtains
4 kami of ancient law
4 jitte
4 blessed breath
3 wills
2 cage
2 shining shoal
1 castle
20 plains
First of all the reason why I decided to go tallowisp is because of hideous laughter. Most decks in Block run green/black or black/another color. Also cage of hands is great anwser for dragons.
hand of honor: This is guy is great because of all the black removal. We need to have creatures on the board to win and this guy stays on the board. Black has a real tough time handling him.
8.5 tales: Mana intensive but is great in the mid/late game. Its sweet in the mirror. Protects everything on the board. It can protect jittes and jittes my friends wins games.
isamaru: 1 for a 2/2 with no draw back is wild. Does damage quickly. I'm probably going to put 3 of em in my deck.
lantern kami: 1 for a 1/1 with flying is pretty good. Most decks don't run flyers in the early game so this guy can do some damage.
tallowisp:this guy fetches all your combat tricks and anwsers to creatures. I think he deserves be in this deck.
pale curtain: can stop hana locks, stops dragons abilities, stops creatures from being brought back from the grave, and its a 2/2 for 2. its pretty solid card.
kami of ancient law: right now enchantment are the 2nd best thing that hurts WW (the first is final judgement and laughter) night of souls' betrayal really slow us down. law can stop this. Ghostly prison slow us down, law can stop this. Reverence is gaining some popularity, law can stop it.
jitte: do I have to explain
blessed breath: protects our creatures from removal and its an arcane. This is never a dead card
wills:makes our creatures big and stop them from being killed my hideous laughter. I like it.
cage of hands: stops the treats
shining shoal: never a dead card. Prevent damage and send it right back where it came from. I love it.
For SB I came up with this
4 Celestial Kirin (aggro decks)
4 Hokori, Dust Drinker (control)
3 Nikko-Onna (against tallowisp WW's and hondens and anything else that runs enchantments)
1 8.5 tales (for mirror)
3 pithing needle (stops kagemaro, meloku, and tops)
4 Kami of Ancient Law
3 Pithing Needle
1 Hokori, Dust Drinker
3 Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo
3 Manriki-Gusari
1 *ultra secret tech* (yeah, haven't found anything)
It goes like this :
1) WW doesn't have any haste creatures.
2) The worst matchup WW has is vs. control decks that's heavy on creature hate - this includes black Gifts with kagemaro + whipser + laugther / Togit control with Myojin, and delaying their land production by one turn can save WW because WW has significantly lower curve
3) When Gifts control or Togits control resolves meloku / yosei respectively and you can finish them off with that extra 3 ~ 4 damage, then you'd love to have them come into play tapped. ESPECIALLY with meloku and his flying image tokens.
4) When it's combined with hokori, it can lock out control decks like no tomorrow. But in that condition, it's more of a "win more card"
22 land
21 Plains
1 Eiganjo castle
22 Creatures
3 Isamaru
4 Eight-and-a-half-tails
4 hand of honor
4 Samurai of the pale curtain
4 Lantern Kami
3 Kitsune Blademaster
16 spells
4 otherworldly journey
4 jitte
3 manriki-gusari
3 Shining Shoal
2 Charge across the Araba
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