I'm suprised that this doesn't already have its own thread. Currently, this seems like the deck to beat in this format, but the exact list is in question. Such differences such as going blue for Time Stop or having much more black removal can make all the difference.
The two that placed first and second are as follows:
The decks, while varying in card selections, basically play Gifts Ungiven and then set up a gifts that is horrible for your opponent nomatter how you put it. The first decklist has the hana Kami-Souless Revival-Ethereal Haze lock along with more destruction, while the second decklists plays some more Myojins along with Heartbeat of Spring and Time Stop.
I have found that Kokusho is superior in every way except for vs. WW. Because this block is teething with removal, Kokusho's effect has more of a punch than Ink-Eyes. Ink Eyes is good against just straight aggro, but this deck already has a good matchup with straight aggro, so it can be removed.
I actually managed to fit one Ghostly Prison in the main deck and it worked out great.
Now, I just started playing this the other day but I am a netdeck-fanatic so I have played quite a bit in that time. The problem I have is not being able to get at least two key cards in my hand when I mulligan. yes yes, tell me the %'s and all that but I never seem to get a Gifts Ungiven in my opening hand. Same can go for Sensei's Diving Top or some good monsters but I never have mana acceleration, just all lands and that.
Can someone give me some examples or stories of what they do, even if it is turns 1-10. I feel some other people may not fully understand what cards are needed in their opening hand, or how the lock specifically works (or what cards to obtain in what situations and in what order, ect).
I love the deck concept in this block (I love Kamigawa block, one of the few ), and I would love to be able to win with it too
Where are the tops??? You will have a MUCH higher probability of finding a Gifts if you utilize the top. 4 Tribe-Elder + 4 Reach means you can usually get a fresh draw with it.
Alright, I am playtesting this a lot as I posted I would I do not lie! Anyways..
What I have a tough time doing is being able to accelerate and then having tough choices on how to do things once I gifts for (my usual picks): Hana Kami Soulless Revival (run 2 in my deck, just incase.. *shrug*) Footsteps of the Goryo Ethereal Haze
I guess I just have a tough time being able to obtain Ethereal Haze in my hand and Soulless Revival to splice with and do it every round. I did build a very straight-forward, and only BG block deck for my friend and what I ended up using was mana accel to get out Iname (Death's Aspect) to get 1 copy of Kokusho, Hana Kami, Kodama of the North Tree, and Infernal Kirin in my graveyard (running 2 of each in the maindeck). That way I would be able to Soulless Revival or Footsteps (Koku or Hana).
Are these mechanics good you think? I feel solid getting a 4/4 out and being able to 'Gifts/Tutor' my Spirits, and then later use Gifts to get all my Arcane. I don't know.. just thinking outloud like usual.
Also Ink-eyes isn't doing it for me other than killing the opponent's Ink-eyes. Just not doing as much as I thought it would.
EDIT: I am making a big deal out of this because I just ran a very solid version of U/G Gifts Control at regionals that did quite well but I am not able to do as well as I would like to with this. So that is where some anger is coming from :tongue2:
I am not sure exactly, but lets put it this way: In the Gifts vs Gifts games, MOST of the time all 50 minutes are spent on the 1ST GAME. It's horrible.
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
Here's the deck that Lieberman just won GP Minneapolis with. Get used to it, because you'll be seeing it at PTQs. A GP-winning deck always turns up in the Q circuit, and how Gifts has proven it can win with shorter time limits.
Exile into Darkness? Kiku's Shadow? :confused3: I guess Kiku's Shadow is somewhat quick, but even though Exile will usually be returned most turns, it has a hefty cost and only takes care of tiny creatures, aside from being a sorcery. Aren't there any better options?
On another note, I'm glad to see Death Denied in there. My previous thoughts about seem to be correct.
Exile into Darkness? Kiku's Shadow? :confused3: I guess Kiku's Shadow is somewhat quick, but even though Exile will usually be returned most turns, it has a hefty cost and only takes care of tiny creatures, aside from being a sorcery. Aren't there any better options?
On another note, I'm glad to see Death Denied in there. My previous thoughts about seem to be correct.
I think it's there to be redundant gifts target when you're looking for removal spells. When you're casting a gift at EoT step, then you most likely have mana built up for it already.
Consider a situation where you'll gift for rend flesh, whisper, hideous laughter and exile into darkness - and your opponent is forced to choose.
First of all, hideous laughter needs to hit the yard cause it devastates whatever WW have already invested on the board.
Then you're left with whisper / flesh / exile into darkness. Whisper also needs to go, because it's splicable.
Then you have two removals which are very playable, and two other in the yard that's recurrable by hana kami.
As for the added bonus, exile into darkness will come back to your hand most likely due to the fact WWs cannot afford to let the Gifts player gain control of the board, and become more or less a reuseable cruel edict every turn.
On top of which, it fuels the kagemaro for one - which is also a nice advantage.
If you consider the realistic curveout / acceleration capability of the deck, then you can understand why having one copy of a removal provides redundant and reliable sources of weenie bullets. It also provides an extra way to get rid of that pesky hand of honor, as well as means to remove most of the MBA's creatures.
It's mostly a metagame call - because most newbies are bred to believe that whatever posts the most numbers in the qualifiers must represent the top deck of the meta - which is perceived to be WW at the moment, but like I said in various threads, it's not - , without realizing the maindeck modifications that can easily be made in both 3 color gifts / togit control can simply devastate them.
MBA will have more resiliency through various sideboarding options and maindeck changes as the meta progresses, but even then, gifts will still remain as the most versatile deck to pilot to the top.
I tested the GP-winning build against WW last night, and it was a paddling. My playtest partner quit after the 7th game because he was tired of getting his head caved in after getting off to strong starts. Gifts won the 7-game series 6-1, with the lone loss coming on a hand where I mulliganed on the play and had to let a Samurai of the Pale Curtain go unanswered for lack of an answer to it. The last game we played, I ended my turn at 1 while my opponent was at 22, and I had absolutely no doubt that I was winning the game.
This deck is powerful, versatile, and will be a force at PTQs. And no one is talking about it.
The version I run is something of a hybrid between the Lieberman version posted above and the version run by Mark Herberholtz. Like Lieberman, I don't run the Ethereal Haze lock, but I also don't run Meloku, preferring to run 2x Cranial Extraction, 4x Gifts Ungiven, and only 2x Hideous Laughter (with a 3rd copy in the sideboard).
I've got a WW deck and a Mono-black Aggro deck for block, but this deck is absolutely my favorite. It does require more thought than something like WW or MBA, but that's what makes it so much fun. It's just got so many win options: control, beatdown, Cranial Extraction lock until you deck them (which is so much fun to pull off). Unless you get a bad draw, you should be able to readily handle the two popular beatdown decks in block.
I would say I highly recommend it, but then that might mean I end up facing a mirror match at some point where I might not have, and I think the Gifts mirror is probably the toughest matchup in block.
I'm not a fan of the Meloku either. I'm taking it out, probably for Footsteps of the Goryo. It's another way to recur Kagemaro (and the lack of haste doesn't matter), it lets you recur Kokusho and Drain Life, and if you play Yosei, it gives you a lock.
distress is used to discard for resurection...............i lack the other 2 kusho's that i want in the deck...............and i need to find away to place white in the deck without bridges................i'm a poor player...............and helpwould be great
55% Gifts
20% White Weenie
20% Mono Black
05% Rogue
Gifts would run anything from Kokusho, Kagemaro, Kodama of the North, Maga, Meloku.. ect. Basically it became EXTREMELY easy to cranial.
Every path-up was just about the same. Super Boring -.- I am going to bring my own Block version of 'Slide' to the PTQ in 2 weeks..
My deck's name was 'I Heart Gifts', making fun of Heart/love and of course Heartbeat and Gifts. Arigatou Tsumura-san for the leet Japanese techn-ness, but now I must go rogue ><
Lately I have been playing a build of Gifts from the Top 8 of Minneapolis. It is quite good. I wonder if anyone else has been having luck with Gifts with Black?
I've been playing it, and generally its been doing wel.. but I'm far too slow a player to take it to the PTQ's - so likely its WW for me. MAke sure you play enough copies of gifts and hideous laughters in your deck... especially the laughters.. which I see getting more and more cut from lists, as you really cant afford losing to any random aggro deck. The best idea is to keep the MD quite anti-aggro, but leave generous space in the SB for the control matchups.
But, you also want to take into account that most people are going to be playing aggro-decks of some sort. Do you really want to have to rely on winning G2 & 3 every time by improving your matchups against decks you wont see as much? I do see your point though. Maybe there is a happy medium - This is my current list (Sideboard still iffy)
23 Lands
4 Tendo Ice bridge
9 Swamp
1 Island
7 Forest
1 Okina
1 Shizo
SIDE - (still unsure about it - should I go with the godo-thingy - there seems to much stuff to SB in vs control)
4 Nezumi Shortfang
2 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Rending vines
3 rend flesh
1 Horobi's whisper
1 Ghost-lit stalker
1 Cranial extraction
2 kodama of the north tree
I really like the exile though - it totally shuts an aggro deck down. I haven;t tested the stalker much though. How useful is he? Do you channel it or use his ability? As I said previously I'm likely taking my WW to the PTQ's as my play speed is glacier-like, but I like the gifts looping (Sometimes you have to remind yourself to kill the opponent instead of recurring fun kill spells every turn )
How does Gifts play in the mirror.. I expect to be taking it to PTQ this month and I expect a large control metagame... any differences in card choices if yu expect control over aggro?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.
SIDE - (still unsure about it - should I go with the godo-thingy - there seems to much stuff to SB in vs control)
4 Nezumi Shortfang
2 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Rending vines
3 rend flesh
1 Horobi's whisper
1 Ghost-lit stalker
1 Cranial extraction
2 kodama of the north tree
I like godo maindecked its acually pretty good. i also like it because it doesnt need extraction which i cant afford.
But the whole point of the Godo sideboard is that you opponent boards OUT all the creature and arti-kill and puts in anti-control cards, while you bring IN the godo-and artifacts. Playing them mainboard loses the element of surprise!
If any is interested. here's my current WW build
21 plains
1 eiganjo
4 lantern kami
3 isamaru
4 hand of honor
4 Samurai of the pale curtain
4 eight and a half tails
3 Celestial kirin
4 jitte
3 manriki-gusari
3 shining shoal
4 otherwordly journey
2 charge across the araba
Can we get this made an {Official Thread} so it doesn't keep falling off the first page, like the other Gifts threads have? This is the best deck in the format; it's exceedingly silly that there's no Official Thread for it.
Herberholz posted a good article on BB Premium today. He still loves the Haze lock against the aggro decks, but I've found it unnecessary so far. Recurring Kagemaro or Hideous Laughter when needed has been enough, in my experience.
The two that placed first and second are as follows:
4 Tendo Ice Bridge
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Plains
1 Island
9 Forest
7 Swamp
Creatures:
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Hana Kami
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
2 Kokusho, the Evening Star
2 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
4 Kodama's Reach
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Sickening Shoal
3 Hideous Laughter
2 Cranial Extraction
1 Ethereal Haze
1 Wear Away
1 Horobi's Whisper
1 Stir the Grave
1 Soulless Revival
4 Nezumi Graverobber
3 Kodama of the North Tree
2 Horobi's Whisper
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
1 Wear Away
1 Forest
The decks, while varying in card selections, basically play Gifts Ungiven and then set up a gifts that is horrible for your opponent nomatter how you put it. The first decklist has the hana Kami-Souless Revival-Ethereal Haze lock along with more destruction, while the second decklists plays some more Myojins along with Heartbeat of Spring and Time Stop.
Discuss your build of this deck here!
Now, I just started playing this the other day but I am a netdeck-fanatic so I have played quite a bit in that time. The problem I have is not being able to get at least two key cards in my hand when I mulligan. yes yes, tell me the %'s and all that but I never seem to get a Gifts Ungiven in my opening hand. Same can go for Sensei's Diving Top or some good monsters but I never have mana acceleration, just all lands and that.
I am not sure.. sorry, that was more of a rant ><
Also I feel that I can't use Gifts correctly with this deck. I usually manage to pull Footsteps of the Goryo , Kokusho, the Evening Star , Hana Kami , and Soulless Revival but after that it goes to hell.
Can someone give me some examples or stories of what they do, even if it is turns 1-10. I feel some other people may not fully understand what cards are needed in their opening hand, or how the lock specifically works (or what cards to obtain in what situations and in what order, ect).
I love the deck concept in this block (I love Kamigawa block, one of the few ), and I would love to be able to win with it too
Currently Playing:
*** Under Construction***
Hana Kami
Soulless Revival
Stir the Grave
Ethereal Haze / some other arcane spell
You tutor up Haze vs. aggro. You will get Kami into your hand somehow and Haze/Revival into your hand.
You play Kami during your turn, and sac it to recur the other arcane spell.
Then at opponent's upkeep, play haze splicing revival which recurs Kami. Play it on your next turn, and repeat the lock.
You can also get Extraction instead of Haze to rape your opponent's deck if they're playing control, or Wear Away to nail Jitte, Hondens, etc.
S_C
I'm thinking -3 Jitte, +3 Top.
S_C
What I have a tough time doing is being able to accelerate and then having tough choices on how to do things once I gifts for (my usual picks):
Hana Kami
Soulless Revival (run 2 in my deck, just incase.. *shrug*)
Footsteps of the Goryo
Ethereal Haze
I guess I just have a tough time being able to obtain Ethereal Haze in my hand and Soulless Revival to splice with and do it every round. I did build a very straight-forward, and only BG block deck for my friend and what I ended up using was mana accel to get out Iname (Death's Aspect) to get 1 copy of Kokusho, Hana Kami, Kodama of the North Tree, and Infernal Kirin in my graveyard (running 2 of each in the maindeck). That way I would be able to Soulless Revival or Footsteps (Koku or Hana).
Are these mechanics good you think? I feel solid getting a 4/4 out and being able to 'Gifts/Tutor' my Spirits, and then later use Gifts to get all my Arcane. I don't know.. just thinking outloud like usual.
Also Ink-eyes isn't doing it for me other than killing the opponent's Ink-eyes. Just not doing as much as I thought it would.
EDIT: I am making a big deal out of this because I just ran a very solid version of U/G Gifts Control at regionals that did quite well but I am not able to do as well as I would like to with this. So that is where some anger is coming from :tongue2:
Currently Playing:
*** Under Construction***
Question to all you gift players: How long does a duel normally take (turn-length)?
Currently Playing:
*** Under Construction***
Nah, we've got better card options than Choice of Damnations.
Well, if I win, they take pretty damn long, and even when I'm playing against aggro and lose, they still take pretty long.
Here's the deck that Lieberman just won GP Minneapolis with. Get used to it, because you'll be seeing it at PTQs. A GP-winning deck always turns up in the Q circuit, and how Gifts has proven it can win with shorter time limits.
9 Swamp
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Island
7 Forest
4 Tendo Ice Bridge
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
3 Kagemaro, First to Suffer
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
1 Hana Kami
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1 Horobi's Whisper
1 Soulless Revival
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Death Denied
1 Wear Away
1 Exile into Darkness
3 Gifts Ungiven
3 Hideous Laughter
4 Sickening Shoal
4 Kodama's Reach
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Kiku's Shadow
1 Rending Vines
3 Rend Flesh
1 Cranial Extraction
2 Nezumi Graverobber
4 Nezumi Shortfang
2 Kodama of the North Tree
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On another note, I'm glad to see Death Denied in there. My previous thoughts about seem to be correct.
I think it's there to be redundant gifts target when you're looking for removal spells. When you're casting a gift at EoT step, then you most likely have mana built up for it already.
Consider a situation where you'll gift for rend flesh, whisper, hideous laughter and exile into darkness - and your opponent is forced to choose.
First of all, hideous laughter needs to hit the yard cause it devastates whatever WW have already invested on the board.
Then you're left with whisper / flesh / exile into darkness. Whisper also needs to go, because it's splicable.
Then you have two removals which are very playable, and two other in the yard that's recurrable by hana kami.
As for the added bonus, exile into darkness will come back to your hand most likely due to the fact WWs cannot afford to let the Gifts player gain control of the board, and become more or less a reuseable cruel edict every turn.
On top of which, it fuels the kagemaro for one - which is also a nice advantage.
If you consider the realistic curveout / acceleration capability of the deck, then you can understand why having one copy of a removal provides redundant and reliable sources of weenie bullets. It also provides an extra way to get rid of that pesky hand of honor, as well as means to remove most of the MBA's creatures.
It's mostly a metagame call - because most newbies are bred to believe that whatever posts the most numbers in the qualifiers must represent the top deck of the meta - which is perceived to be WW at the moment, but like I said in various threads, it's not - , without realizing the maindeck modifications that can easily be made in both 3 color gifts / togit control can simply devastate them.
MBA will have more resiliency through various sideboarding options and maindeck changes as the meta progresses, but even then, gifts will still remain as the most versatile deck to pilot to the top.
This deck is powerful, versatile, and will be a force at PTQs. And no one is talking about it.
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I used to write for MTGS, including Cranial Insertion and cube articles. Good on you if you can find those after the upgrade.
I really like this deck, especially after the addition of Goryo's Vengeance and Kagemaro, First to Suffer. Being able to repeatedly Mutilate is absolutely amazing, and Myojin of Night's Reach can be devastating.
I've got a WW deck and a Mono-black Aggro deck for block, but this deck is absolutely my favorite. It does require more thought than something like WW or MBA, but that's what makes it so much fun. It's just got so many win options: control, beatdown, Cranial Extraction lock until you deck them (which is so much fun to pull off). Unless you get a bad draw, you should be able to readily handle the two popular beatdown decks in block.
I would say I highly recommend it, but then that might mean I end up facing a mirror match at some point where I might not have, and I think the Gifts mirror is probably the toughest matchup in block.
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My Eternal Cube on CubeTutor| |My Reject Rare Cube on CubeTutor| |My Peasant Cube on CubeTutor
I used to write for MTGS, including Cranial Insertion and cube articles. Good on you if you can find those after the upgrade.
13 Forest
7 Swamp
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Hana Kami
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
3 Distress
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
4 Kodama's Reach
4 Gifts Ungiven
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Soulless Revival
2 Wear Away
3 Kagemaro, First to Suffer
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
3 Footsteps of the Goryo
distress is used to discard for resurection...............i lack the other 2 kusho's that i want in the deck...............and i need to find away to place white in the deck without bridges................i'm a poor player...............and helpwould be great
55% Gifts
20% White Weenie
20% Mono Black
05% Rogue
Gifts would run anything from Kokusho, Kagemaro, Kodama of the North, Maga, Meloku.. ect. Basically it became EXTREMELY easy to cranial.
Every path-up was just about the same. Super Boring -.- I am going to bring my own Block version of 'Slide' to the PTQ in 2 weeks..
My deck's name was 'I Heart Gifts', making fun of Heart/love and of course Heartbeat and Gifts. Arigatou Tsumura-san for the leet Japanese techn-ness, but now I must go rogue ><
Currently Playing:
*** Under Construction***
The Real Best Legacy Poster of 2005 poll
Shadowmoor's Infinite combos
23 Lands
4 Tendo Ice bridge
9 Swamp
1 Island
7 Forest
1 Okina
1 Shizo
16 the Engine
4 Gifts ungiven
4 Sensei's Divining top
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Kodama's Reach
10 Creature control
3 Kagemaro
3 Hidoues Laughter
4 Sickening shoal
11 Gifts Toolbox
1 hana kami
1 soulles revival
1 Death Denied
1 Ink-eyes
1 Meloku
1 kokusho
1 Myojin of nights reach
1 Wear away
1 Goryo's vengeance
1 Cranial Extraction
1 exile into darkness
SIDE - (still unsure about it - should I go with the godo-thingy - there seems to much stuff to SB in vs control)
4 Nezumi Shortfang
2 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Rending vines
3 rend flesh
1 Horobi's whisper
1 Ghost-lit stalker
1 Cranial extraction
2 kodama of the north tree
Shadowmoor's Infinite combos
Shadowmoor's Infinite combos
I like godo maindecked its acually pretty good. i also like it because it doesnt need extraction which i cant afford.
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
1 Myojin of Nights Reach
1 Hana Kami
2 Godo, Bandit Warlord
2 Ink-Eyes, Servant of the Oni
3 Kagemaro, First to Suffer
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
Instants/Soceries
1 Soulless Revival
1 Death Denied
1 Goryo's Vengeance
2 Hideous Laughter
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Kodama's Reach
4 Sickening Shoal
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Land
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
3 Tendo Ice Bridge
7 Swamp
9 Forest
1 Horobi's Whisper
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
1 Wear Away
2 Hideous Laughter
2 Ghost-Lit Stalker
2 Kodama of the North Tree
2 Rend Flesh
4 Nezumi Graverobber
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MY Thread http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=312985#post312985
If any is interested. here's my current WW build
21 plains
1 eiganjo
4 lantern kami
3 isamaru
4 hand of honor
4 Samurai of the pale curtain
4 eight and a half tails
3 Celestial kirin
4 jitte
3 manriki-gusari
3 shining shoal
4 otherwordly journey
2 charge across the araba
Shadowmoor's Infinite combos
Herberholz posted a good article on BB Premium today. He still loves the Haze lock against the aggro decks, but I've found it unnecessary so far. Recurring Kagemaro or Hideous Laughter when needed has been enough, in my experience.
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I used to write for MTGS, including Cranial Insertion and cube articles. Good on you if you can find those after the upgrade.