Hi, everyone!
I enjoy old Magic cards and want to try this great format! (although I've been playing Magic for only about a year and don't have anything older than some 4-6th edition cards)
I'm an absolute noob, so having read this and our local threads, I ask for your help and would very much appreciate the answers point by point!
Hello and welcome aboard!
1. Is there any arranged information available on the format archetypes/popular decks (not to mention primers)? I've managed to find a "Decks to beat" section on oldschool-mtg.blogspot but only with photos and no explanation.
That's the place I go to see deck lists most often. That blog does have explanations for specific decks, but you have to read through the posts to find them. Several other sites also post lists, tournament reports, and other articles related to Old School. There is a big list in the first post of this thread that is kept pretty well up to date. In particular, Stephen Menendian is an author that goes into extreme detail about decks. He's currently working on a series of articles about Old School, which you can find here: http://www.vintagemagic.com/blog/?tagid=176
Most likely, I won't be able to buy power9, and the whole process of acquiring cards is gonna be slow. So here comes the second question
2. Is it possible that the meta changes at one point so drastically that some decks are no longer competitive? It would be very frustrating to waste time and money and start from scratch again.
There isn't a meta for Old School in the same way that there is for other formats. This is for several reasons:
1) The formats that fall under the Old School umbrella were designed for nostalgic reasons. A major point of the formats are to capture a feeling of what the game used to be like. With this in mind, major shake-ups aren't a goal or really desirable by many players. In Standard and even Modern, WotC wants to keep things feeling new, but Old School is rather the opposite of that. Obviously, nothing rotates and new sets aren't being added to the core 93/94 format. So big shifts really only come through bans and unbans. However, the Swedes have shown they do not make changes without a lot of thought.
2) Not everyone plays by the same set of rules. Different groups use different lists of banned/restricted cards. Some groups allow newer printings of cards. Some allow Fallen Empires. Some use mana burn. Some allow proxies. And so on. With all these variations, a metagame shift in one group won't necessarily cause any changes in another group.
3) These cards are very expensive. MOST players can't afford to change decks quickly. So local metagames just can't change very quickly in general.
4) This really isn't a competitive format per se. People are always going to appreciate janky decks as long as they do something cool and unique. Prize support for many tournaments is usually low-valued. The reward is more about participating and having fun than it is about winning something valuable. Metagame shifts won't change this much.
And finally, a traditional question of a noob
3. Which deck would you recommend to start with that meets the following criteria:
- does not require huge investments at once
- versatile enough to have few hopeless matchups and be able to win not once in a blue moon
- is fun for a long-term play and not very tricky for a noob (not a draw-go, which among other things implies a complete grasp of meta and playstyles of other decks )
Fun is up to you. I personally love White Weenie style decks, so that's what I started with. Other options might include Black aggro, Electric Eel aggro, Underworld Dreams combo, and Zoo. Or you can always brew your own. What do you like to play with? What are some of your favorite decks in other formats?
Budget is also up to you and your group. Don't worry about power to start with. All the aggro decks can be played without it, even though there is no denying that a Lotus helps almost every deck be better. The cost drops significantly if you allow Revised and newer printings. Serendib Efreet is around $130 for Arabian Nights versions, but only about $1.30 for Revised versions.
In particular, Stephen Menendian is an author that goes into extreme detail about decks. He's currently working on a series of articles about Old School, which you can find here: http://www.vintagemagic.com/blog/?tagid=176
For what it's worth, personally I've kept to just the original sets for my own decks. I started with red green aggro (kird apes) and then built electric eel, then mono blue tron (Transmute Artifact is the original tinker), then I rebuilt the red green as more mid range, including Sol Ring, a Mana Vault and a Shivan Dragon as a finisher.
Now I'm collecting more staples, and looking hard at white or white red. I picked up this pretty Serra a while back and I'd like to use her in something. I'm also collecting CE moxes now... because I can't really justify keeping real power. I've owned two mox ruby (Unlimited and Beta) since starting this thread and I sold both when I needed to pay bills.
I've also started play testing deck ideas on MTGO. If anyone wants to play some bastardized version of old school on MTGO send me a message. If anyone has a CE mox (other than emerald or jet) and is willing to send it on PucaTrade, send me a message.
GumgodMTG, necrogenesis thanks for your detailed replies, guys!
GumgodMTG, huge-huge thanks for such a fantastic guide to decks!!! It's just awesome! I've reread it several times and will definitely revisit it again and again!
Those photos are so nice Can't wait to acquire such lovely cards
Unfortunately, there is no playgroup at my place (and it's unlikely to appear any time soon), so I'm going to try oldschool skype tournaments (on facebook). I suppose the sets legality may vary from game to game there, so I'll probably restrict myself to sets originally allowed by Swedish players to avoid any conflicts with players from all over the world.
That's the place I go to see deck lists most often. That blog does have explanations for specific decks, but you have to read through the posts to find them. Several other sites also post lists, tournament reports, and other articles related to Old School. There is a big list in the first post of this thread that is kept pretty well up to date. In particular, Stephen Menendian is an author that goes into extreme detail about decks. He's currently working on a series of articles about Old School, which you can find here: http://www.vintagemagic.com/blog/?tagid=176
Thanks for the link! The articles are great!
Fun is up to you. I personally love White Weenie style decks, so that's what I started with. Other options might include Black aggro, Electric Eel aggro, Underworld Dreams combo, and Zoo. Or you can always brew your own. What do you like to play with? What are some of your favorite decks in other formats?
My current decks are Merfolk in modern, Jenara and monogreen Titania/Omnath in EDH, monoblack control in pauper.
I find aggro/tempo playstyles easier to start with for a new player like me, but also chose MBC pauper deck as it comprises many old cards (like Cuombajj Witches).
I think saying that there's no meta in 93/94 isn't fully true. In this format there are a series of decks that you'll most definitely run into.
Starting with the most odious, The Deck. Be prepared to deal with cripplingenchantments, creaturedestruction and Counterspells. ErhnamGeddon, hope you can play without lands.
Black Aggro, Hippies and/or Juzams first turn.
White Weenie, and variants that splash red.
Zoo, Red/Green, Monkeys, Bolts and Berserks, oh my! Some variants splash blue.
Blue/Red Counter-Burn, the name says it all. Electric Eel Aggro, fast creature blue/red.
Mono Blue Artifact, Transmute or Power into artifactcreatures and/or infinitedamage.
Also be prepared for some Lich/Mirror Universe shenanigans.
You could also run into TaxEdge, a red/white combo deck. I find that this deck folds to aggro, want to be a fan but.... Atog based artifact decks.
And if you're lucky enough someone could be running Kobolds.
There are others, but these are(imho) some of the main decks that define the format.
I think saying that there's no meta in 93/94 isn't fully true. In this format there are a series of decks that you'll most definitely run into.
Starting with the most odious, The Deck. Be prepared to deal with cripplingenchantments, creaturedestruction and Counterspells. ErhnamGeddon, hope you can play without lands.
Black Aggro, Hippies and/or Juzams first turn.
White Weenie, and variants that splash red.
Zoo, Red/Green, Monkeys, Bolts and Berserks, oh my! Some variants splash blue.
Blue/Red Counter-Burn, the name says it all. Electric Eel Aggro, fast creature blue/red.
Mono Blue Artifact, Transmute or Power into artifactcreatures and/or infinitedamage.
Also be prepared for some Lich/Mirror Universe shenanigans.
You could also run into TaxEdge, a red/white combo deck. I find that this deck folds to aggro, want to be a fan but.... Atog based artifact decks.
And if you're lucky enough someone could be running Kobolds.
There are others, but these are(imho) some of the main decks that define the format.
Thank you for this brief review. It's very useful.
I think I'm gonna start with White Weenie with possible evolution into Tax Edge as a way to go without P9 and duals. Another deck to consider for me is monogreen.
If I got it right, these decks are pretty universal and powerful (especially white with its removal) and at the same time not too hard to master
Any investment is safe. The awesome thing about the format is that there really isn't a meta that will change as new sets are released. The card pool never changes.
I played in the 93/94 tournament at GPLA and it was the most fun I've had playing Magic in a tournament setting in ages. The REL level was casual, too, so the players were relaxed and laughing and having a good time. Nobody dropped because of 0-2 records. So much fun.
@Olga
White Weenie is probably the cheapest place to start, barring Jihad, which isn't dire for the deck to function. Splashing red gives you some more tools without adding cost. If you're not running blue you'll still need to deal with it. Red Elemental Blast is your friend. You also get Fork, Wheel of Fortune, and directdamage. If you run weenie fliers, Earthquake.
Both decks can be vulnerable to ErnamGeddon. Just keep that in mind when thinking about your sideboard.
I use the Eternal Central construction rules well because, Collector's Edition, Revised, and Chronicles. I find the Swedish rules to be a little oppressive if you want to actually find people to play with. God bless them for having decks that give you wet dreams, but let's be real. Limited availability, and pricing are just ridiculous. And I shouldn't have to feel bad just because 90% of my dual lands are Revised, sorry I'm not cool enough. I started playing in the summer of '94 and acquired what I could with my limited income at the time. Never owned more that one piece at any given time, back in the day. Everyone I played with were in a similar situation.
And there is nothing wrong with Collector's Edition power. I was lucky and able to cobble together a complete Collector's Edition set(minus dual lands) for just over $600 U.S. I had started collecting it before 93/94 was really a thing and got my P9 set for $309. I feel it's more important to get the format going than to worry about the caliber of you're collection, which is why I like EC rules, even though their B&R list could use a little help. You have not played Magic until you've played multiplayer and everyone is packing Shahrazads!
White Weenie is probably the cheapest place to start, barring Jihad
Looked through the prices on WW decklists and found out that Thunder Spirit and Jihad (about $40 a card) don't seem to be as expensive as for example Savannah Lions or Crusade... (about $150-200 for a black bordered card). Maybe I got something wrong or you mean white bordered version of WW deck?
I use the Eternal Central construction rules well because, Collector's Edition, Revised, and Chronicles. I find the Swedish rules to be a little oppressive if you want to actually find people to play with.
It would be great indeed to be able to play these editions too, but I'm not sure whether all my potential opponents will approve such an expanded decklist (I'm gonna play using skype with people from all over the world). It may appear that my deck is a bit overpowered if playing against "true" 93/94 decks built strictly according to Swedish rules.
By the way, how do you guys ( who stick to Swedish rules) test new decks and cards? Are Revised and even more recent printings OK for such purposes (as long as they have old art and frame)?
Looked through the prices on WW decklists and found out that Thunder Spirit and Jihad (about $40 a card) don't seem to be as expensive as for example Savannah Lions or Crusade... (about $150-200 for a black bordered card). Maybe I got something wrong or you mean white bordered version of WW deck?
This is exactly what I meant. The 'budget' version of Thunder Spirit would be Italian, whereas there are white bordered versions of other pieces available, or FBB. I have an Italian Balance. It isn't Swedish legal, but it's pretty cool, and last time I checked it was cheaper than Unlimited. (see attached)
It would be great indeed to be able to play these editions too, but I'm not sure whether all my potential opponents will approve such an expanded decklist (I'm gonna play using skype with people from all over the world). It may appear that my deck is a bit overpowered if playing against "true" 93/94 decks built strictly according to Swedish rules.
By the way, how do you guys ( who stick to Swedish rules) test new decks and cards? Are Revised and even more recent printings OK for such purposes (as long as they have old art and frame)?
I don't believe anyone is going to give you a real hard time about edition, most people are happy to just play. If you're worried about it, start up a topic on the Facebook group and see what others are playing. I'm just going to leave this screen shot from an old school side event that I watched on YouTube here.
Oh and for what it's worth, check out the deck by Daniel Chang in this tournament report. This deck is incredibly pimp, and that guy seems to have access to any card he wants, but he's mixing Summer edition with Revised (look at those Basalt Monoliths). Also, pretty sure those are Media Promo or possibly 4th edition fireballs. My point is that even those players who have the money sometimes play cards outside the Swedish legal range of sets. Just stick to the old border and old art, and have fun.
Thank you for your encouraging support! I'll start with majority of Revised cards just to begin playing some games asap and will gradually replace them with ABU cards sticking to the list of sets legal in Sweden
Revised is completely in the format. I don't understand how it could be omitted. It was released around the same time as Legends and shares the same symbols and rules text updates.
Revised is completely in the format. I don't understand how it could be omitted. It was released around the same time as Legends and shares the same symbols and rules text updates.
Forcing people to use Unlimited is just snobbery.
I'm not encouraging forcing anyone to use Unlimited. Olga_Dushina said they preferred the Swedish legal sets.
To quote the post I made earlier in this thread adding bold for emphasis.
Unlimited was the cheap way into the format, but since staples have been going up in price, more groups are allowing Revised and newer printings. Usually these say to stick with the original art and old frame for nostalgia sake. So if you're building with newer sets, try to use the sets that reflect the original artwork. (I.e. don't buy 5th edition Manabarbs, buy revised edition instead), don't buy 7th Ed City of Brass, buy Chronicles instead. You can also buy FBB cards to get a black bordered look without breaking the bank. It's worth noting that Eternal Central's legality also allows for Collector's edition to be played. Check with where you are going to play before including CE/IE or even Revised. Once you get past what sets are legal and what your budget is like, there's actually a lot of room for creativity.
Despite the prices on some cards, to me this is 100% a casual format based on nostalgia. Use whatever cards and sets that you and the people you're playing with are comfortable with using. If you're going to go to an event (like the Eternal Central Old School event happening on Eternal Weekend), check with the organizer to see what is allowed.
edit: My goal with this thread is just to share as much information about the format as possible. I really enjoy playing with the old cards, and want to encourage others to give it a try. I've updated the original post to make it more clear that rules for the format tend to be regional. I've moved the Swedish rules into a spoiler and added a second spoiler with the Eternal Central rule set. From what I've seen, I think these are the two most common sets of rules you will find for this format. I also re-organized the links into categories that make more sense. This also makes it easier to see that different rule sets are being played in different parts of the world.
edit: My goal with this thread is just to share as much information about the format as possible. I really enjoy playing with the old cards, and want to encourage others to give it a try. I've updated the original post to make it more clear that rules for the format tend to be regional. I've moved the Swedish rules into a spoiler and added a second spoiler with the Eternal Central rule set. From what I've seen, I think these are the two most common sets of rules you will find for this format. I also re-organized the links into categories that make more sense. This also makes it easier to see that different rule sets are being played in different parts of the world.
Great job keeping this thread updated! And I really liked the new arrangement of links into categories.
Been thinking of a Burn deck for the format. I'm surprised more people aren't playing Copper Tablet in burn-style builds - it's a poor man's Sulfuric Vortex.
I like it, it looks like fun. The one card I'm not sure about is flying men. Without pump (unstable mutation) I wonder if Electric Eel might be better. The evasion is pretty good though. Alternatively you could go for another flyer with more power ie Phantasmal Forces or Roc of Kher Ridges. You have plenty of bolts at 1 mana, I don't think you need the 1/1 flyer. I like this style of deck though.
Despite the prices on some cards, to me this is 100% a casual format based on nostalgia. Use whatever cards and sets that you and the people you're playing with are comfortable with using.
Excellent points for any format, and I also appreciate your keeping this topic updated.
And in relation to the quoted part, I have a couple of deck pictures today! Almost all proxies by the Swedish construction practices, including quite a lot of Fourth Edition basic lands. I still like them, though!
I'd like to make some sort of Erhnam Burn 'Em style of deck now that basically everyone online has unrestricted Fork, but I'm not done with it yet.
ATTACHMENTS
Tax Edge
Fish!
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Arborea: I love the tax edge decks. I had a Seismic Assault/Land Tax deck for years that was one of my pet decks. Thanks for sharing!
GPash: Replacing flying men was only a suggestion. I have a habit of giving feedback on deck lists whether it's wanted or not. I definitely see the value of keeping the curve low.
One, the "Legend Rule" and which one different groups are using.
Two, Poly and Continuous Artifacts being "turned off" when tapped.
As I've mentioned, I've been using Eternal Central rules, and I love Mana Burn. I love the feel of this format and have been thinking about ways to capture more of that old style feel that
would still be safe. I'm glad that we're not using Batches and that there are no Interrupts, but I still feel we need a little more than Mana Burn to capture the flavor of the period. Which is why I'd like people to consider using the original Legend Rule, it was in use for ten years. It would still give you that old school flavor when it mattered, but would in all reality be of minimal consequence. How many Legends do we actually see running around the format.
The other rule is the tapped artifact rule. In those early days the design of the cards had this rule in mind. The only cards people play that shut off when tapped have now both been printed to function this way. Which is great, but there were many strategy choices that used to get used that aren't available. Tapping Continuous and Poly artifacts to shut them down can open up many
subtle tactical choices that adds a fine nuance to the game. Also makes Relic Barrier even more useful, and could even give Hyperion Blacksmith relevance, maybe? (most likely not!)
It opens up avenues of play that got used back then that just don't exist currently.
I feel these are options worth exploring, and am interested in other's opinions on these as options to consider. I think adding as much rules flavor without adding the old clunkiness will make this an even better format possibly, but without at least trying it we'll never know.
This is what I'm currently running. Playing a lot of casual and multiplayer, I'd tighten it up to go to an event.
No sideboard other than a four-pak of Disenchant.
My biggest surprise is how effective Yawgmoth Demon is. 6 power with first strike takes out everything in the air. I find that feeding it isn't too much hassle.
This is what I'm currently running. Playing a lot of casual and multiplayer, I'd tighten it up to go to an event.
No sideboard other than a four-pak of Disenchant.
My biggest surprise is how effective Yawgmoth Demon is. 6 power with first strike takes out everything in the air. I find that feeding it isn't too much hassle.
That looks like a blast to play. I like Yawgmoth Demon a lot. I've been thinking of trying to fit him into a deck that uses Priest of Yawgmoth to ramp into him, but I like the reanimate shell. I think that's better. Years ago I tried to build a janky pile with Rukh Egg and Hell's Caretaker and that's what I think of every time I see a Hell's Caretaker. Basically I like everything your doing here.
A couple things I'd like to discuss:
One, the "Legend Rule" and which one different groups are using.
Two, Poly and Continuous Artifacts being "turned off" when tapped.
Personally I think reverting to the older rules just makes things more complicated. Before you know it you'll need an archive of old rules text, and that may create larger barriers to entry for people that want to try the format. There was an article on the old school blog explaining why they don't revert to older versions of the rules, and I think that's worth reading if you're thinking of trying it out. I do think the concept of tapping artifacts to turn them off was great, but it also caused some confusion with things like mana vault and Basalt Monolith. I remember playing with these rules, and would be fine with it personally, but generally see most online groups only bringing back mana burn and "turning off" for Winter Orb (which works that way anyway now). The legend rule is interesting, but I think it would only make Clone slightly more playable. I am not sure it would matter too often for other cards.
@Gumgod, funny you mentioned Rukh Egg, I've been trying to come up with some way to abuse them with Khabal Ghoul and Fallen Angels.
I've read every inch of their site, if there is anything online about OldSchool 93/94 out there I've read it. I agree with about 95% of their rules logic. I don't want to go back to Revised combat rules, and as I stated above, glad to be using the Stack instead of batches, no Interrupts, etc. all good things. Much cleaner and easier to play. However I do feel that the two rules
I've brought up both accomplish adding flavor without overcomplicating the rules. I think that you are thinking of the Kamagawa Legendary rule. With the original 94 rule, Clone was not a Legend killer.(see attachment) Karakas would take the biggest hit.
As far as rules complications with tapped Continuous and Poly Artifacts being turned off, every artifact in the format was designed with this rule in mind, also both Basalt Monolith
and Mana Vault are unaffected as they are both Mono Artifacts, which don't interact with the rule. I realize this is a nostalgia format not a historical one. Not trying to recreate the
past, just trying to remember it fondly.
Either way this format is a blast. As a friend of mine that I got into the format said "I haven't had this much fun with Magic in over ten years". As someone that's been playing since August of '94, it's the only way I want to play(most of the time).
If this summer doesn't break me($), I'm hoping to play in Columbus!
Great thread! I just started playing 93/94 a few weeks ago, and my LGS held a tournament that drew a lot of people from Sweden as well (I live in Norway). It was a blast, and I haven't had this much fun playing magic in a long time. I got a bit bored with the competitive scene and net decking, so building my own B/G Enchantress home brew was so much fun. I even won a couple of matches (got to beat down with Force of Nature for the first time since I started playing in 95). Everyone was so chill and focused on having fun with old cards while making new friends. The tourney prize was a janky 1$ legends land signed by all players
I'm currently making new (budget) brews and looking forward to the next tourney. We play by the (strict) Swedish rules, but I hope to get to use my revised duals some day.
I really hope the focus in old school magic will stay on having fun, and not become too competitive where everyone tries to copy the same winning deck lists. Be creative. Make your own crazy homebrew. Have fun
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Hello and welcome aboard!
That's the place I go to see deck lists most often. That blog does have explanations for specific decks, but you have to read through the posts to find them. Several other sites also post lists, tournament reports, and other articles related to Old School. There is a big list in the first post of this thread that is kept pretty well up to date. In particular, Stephen Menendian is an author that goes into extreme detail about decks. He's currently working on a series of articles about Old School, which you can find here:
http://www.vintagemagic.com/blog/?tagid=176
There isn't a meta for Old School in the same way that there is for other formats. This is for several reasons:
1) The formats that fall under the Old School umbrella were designed for nostalgic reasons. A major point of the formats are to capture a feeling of what the game used to be like. With this in mind, major shake-ups aren't a goal or really desirable by many players. In Standard and even Modern, WotC wants to keep things feeling new, but Old School is rather the opposite of that. Obviously, nothing rotates and new sets aren't being added to the core 93/94 format. So big shifts really only come through bans and unbans. However, the Swedes have shown they do not make changes without a lot of thought.
2) Not everyone plays by the same set of rules. Different groups use different lists of banned/restricted cards. Some groups allow newer printings of cards. Some allow Fallen Empires. Some use mana burn. Some allow proxies. And so on. With all these variations, a metagame shift in one group won't necessarily cause any changes in another group.
3) These cards are very expensive. MOST players can't afford to change decks quickly. So local metagames just can't change very quickly in general.
4) This really isn't a competitive format per se. People are always going to appreciate janky decks as long as they do something cool and unique. Prize support for many tournaments is usually low-valued. The reward is more about participating and having fun than it is about winning something valuable. Metagame shifts won't change this much.
Fun is up to you. I personally love White Weenie style decks, so that's what I started with. Other options might include Black aggro, Electric Eel aggro, Underworld Dreams combo, and Zoo. Or you can always brew your own. What do you like to play with? What are some of your favorite decks in other formats?
Budget is also up to you and your group. Don't worry about power to start with. All the aggro decks can be played without it, even though there is no denying that a Lotus helps almost every deck be better. The cost drops significantly if you allow Revised and newer printings. Serendib Efreet is around $130 for Arabian Nights versions, but only about $1.30 for Revised versions.
Also Eternal Central has a ton of content.
http://www.eternalcentral.com/oldschool/
For what it's worth, personally I've kept to just the original sets for my own decks. I started with red green aggro (kird apes) and then built electric eel, then mono blue tron (Transmute Artifact is the original tinker), then I rebuilt the red green as more mid range, including Sol Ring, a Mana Vault and a Shivan Dragon as a finisher.
Now I'm collecting more staples, and looking hard at white or white red. I picked up this pretty Serra a while back and I'd like to use her in something. I'm also collecting CE moxes now... because I can't really justify keeping real power. I've owned two mox ruby (Unlimited and Beta) since starting this thread and I sold both when I needed to pay bills.
I've also started play testing deck ideas on MTGO. If anyone wants to play some bastardized version of old school on MTGO send me a message. If anyone has a CE mox (other than emerald or jet) and is willing to send it on PucaTrade, send me a message.
GumgodMTG, huge-huge thanks for such a fantastic guide to decks!!! It's just awesome! I've reread it several times and will definitely revisit it again and again!
Those photos are so nice Can't wait to acquire such lovely cards
Unfortunately, there is no playgroup at my place (and it's unlikely to appear any time soon), so I'm going to try oldschool skype tournaments (on facebook). I suppose the sets legality may vary from game to game there, so I'll probably restrict myself to sets originally allowed by Swedish players to avoid any conflicts with players from all over the world.
Thanks for the link! The articles are great!
My current decks are Merfolk in modern, Jenara and monogreen Titania/Omnath in EDH, monoblack control in pauper.
I find aggro/tempo playstyles easier to start with for a new player like me, but also chose MBC pauper deck as it comprises many old cards (like Cuombajj Witches).
Starting with the most odious, The Deck. Be prepared to deal with crippling enchantments, creature destruction and Counterspells.
ErhnamGeddon, hope you can play without lands.
Black Aggro, Hippies and/or Juzams first turn.
White Weenie, and variants that splash red.
Zoo, Red/Green, Monkeys, Bolts and Berserks, oh my! Some variants splash blue.
Blue/Red Counter-Burn, the name says it all.
Electric Eel Aggro, fast creature blue/red.
Mono Blue Artifact, Transmute or Power into artifact creatures and/or infinite damage.
Also be prepared for some Lich/Mirror Universe shenanigans.
You could also run into TaxEdge, a red/white combo deck. I find that this deck folds to aggro, want to be a fan but....
Atog based artifact decks.
And if you're lucky enough someone could be running Kobolds.
There are others, but these are(imho) some of the main decks that define the format.
Thank you for this brief review. It's very useful.
I think I'm gonna start with White Weenie with possible evolution into Tax Edge as a way to go without P9 and duals. Another deck to consider for me is monogreen.
If I got it right, these decks are pretty universal and powerful (especially white with its removal) and at the same time not too hard to master
I played in the 93/94 tournament at GPLA and it was the most fun I've had playing Magic in a tournament setting in ages. The REL level was casual, too, so the players were relaxed and laughing and having a good time. Nobody dropped because of 0-2 records. So much fun.
White Weenie is probably the cheapest place to start, barring Jihad, which isn't dire for the deck to function. Splashing red gives you some more tools without adding cost. If you're not running blue you'll still need to deal with it. Red Elemental Blast is your friend. You also get Fork, Wheel of Fortune, and direct damage. If you run weenie fliers, Earthquake.
Some oft overlooked important cards if you're going mono green: Argothian Pixies, Whirling Dervish, and Avoid Fate. In my opinion Hurricane doesn't see enough play
considering the bevy of flying creatures that dominate the format. If you can afford it, Sylvan Library is really a must for mono green. And you'll feel a little under powered without Berserk, but can still make it though. A lot of enchantments wreak havoc in this format and green gives you Tranquility. And if you're not running Moxen, Titania's Song is a hilarious way to screw with them.
Both decks can be vulnerable to ErnamGeddon. Just keep that in mind when thinking about your sideboard.
I use the Eternal Central construction rules well because, Collector's Edition, Revised, and Chronicles. I find the Swedish rules to be a little oppressive if you want to actually find people to play with. God bless them for having decks that give you wet dreams, but let's be real. Limited availability, and pricing are just ridiculous. And I shouldn't have to feel bad just because 90% of my dual lands are Revised, sorry I'm not cool enough. I started playing in the summer of '94 and acquired what I could with my limited income at the time. Never owned more that one piece at any given time, back in the day. Everyone I played with were in a similar situation.
And there is nothing wrong with Collector's Edition power. I was lucky and able to cobble together a complete Collector's Edition set(minus dual lands) for just over $600 U.S. I had started collecting it before 93/94 was really a thing and got my P9 set for $309. I feel it's more important to get the format going than to worry about the caliber of you're collection, which is why I like EC rules, even though their B&R list could use a little help. You have not played Magic until you've played multiplayer and everyone is packing Shahrazads!
Looked through the prices on WW decklists and found out that Thunder Spirit and Jihad (about $40 a card) don't seem to be as expensive as for example Savannah Lions or Crusade... (about $150-200 for a black bordered card). Maybe I got something wrong or you mean white bordered version of WW deck?
It would be great indeed to be able to play these editions too, but I'm not sure whether all my potential opponents will approve such an expanded decklist (I'm gonna play using skype with people from all over the world). It may appear that my deck is a bit overpowered if playing against "true" 93/94 decks built strictly according to Swedish rules.
By the way, how do you guys ( who stick to Swedish rules) test new decks and cards? Are Revised and even more recent printings OK for such purposes (as long as they have old art and frame)?
This is exactly what I meant. The 'budget' version of Thunder Spirit would be Italian, whereas there are white bordered versions of other pieces available, or FBB. I have an Italian Balance. It isn't Swedish legal, but it's pretty cool, and last time I checked it was cheaper than Unlimited. (see attached)
I don't believe anyone is going to give you a real hard time about edition, most people are happy to just play. If you're worried about it, start up a topic on the Facebook group and see what others are playing. I'm just going to leave this screen shot from an old school side event that I watched on YouTube here.
Oh and for what it's worth, check out the deck by Daniel Chang in this tournament report. This deck is incredibly pimp, and that guy seems to have access to any card he wants, but he's mixing Summer edition with Revised (look at those Basalt Monoliths). Also, pretty sure those are Media Promo or possibly 4th edition fireballs. My point is that even those players who have the money sometimes play cards outside the Swedish legal range of sets. Just stick to the old border and old art, and have fun.
Forcing people to use Unlimited is just snobbery.
My Kamigawa cube.
My Mirage Cube
I'm not encouraging forcing anyone to use Unlimited. Olga_Dushina said they preferred the Swedish legal sets.
To quote the post I made earlier in this thread adding bold for emphasis.
Despite the prices on some cards, to me this is 100% a casual format based on nostalgia. Use whatever cards and sets that you and the people you're playing with are comfortable with using. If you're going to go to an event (like the Eternal Central Old School event happening on Eternal Weekend), check with the organizer to see what is allowed.
edit: My goal with this thread is just to share as much information about the format as possible. I really enjoy playing with the old cards, and want to encourage others to give it a try. I've updated the original post to make it more clear that rules for the format tend to be regional. I've moved the Swedish rules into a spoiler and added a second spoiler with the Eternal Central rule set. From what I've seen, I think these are the two most common sets of rules you will find for this format. I also re-organized the links into categories that make more sense. This also makes it easier to see that different rule sets are being played in different parts of the world.
Great job keeping this thread updated! And I really liked the new arrangement of links into categories.
Something along the lines of:
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireball
4 Ball Lightning
4 Psionic Blast
4 Counterspell
1 Mana Drain
4 Flying Men
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Copper Tablet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
4 Volcanic Island
4 City of Brass
1 Strip Mine
6 Mountain
4 Island
Excellent points for any format, and I also appreciate your keeping this topic updated.
And in relation to the quoted part, I have a couple of deck pictures today! Almost all proxies by the Swedish construction practices, including quite a lot of Fourth Edition basic lands. I still like them, though!
I'd like to make some sort of Erhnam Burn 'Em style of deck now that basically everyone online has unrestricted Fork, but I'm not done with it yet.
Love Erhnam Burn'em. Was playing that deck in "Type I" before there was such thing as "Type 2." Fully endorse that strategy!
GPash: Replacing flying men was only a suggestion. I have a habit of giving feedback on deck lists whether it's wanted or not. I definitely see the value of keeping the curve low.
One, the "Legend Rule" and which one different groups are using.
Two, Poly and Continuous Artifacts being "turned off" when tapped.
As I've mentioned, I've been using Eternal Central rules, and I love Mana Burn. I love the feel of this format and have been thinking about ways to capture more of that old style feel that
would still be safe. I'm glad that we're not using Batches and that there are no Interrupts, but I still feel we need a little more than Mana Burn to capture the flavor of the period. Which is why I'd like people to consider using the original Legend Rule, it was in use for ten years. It would still give you that old school flavor when it mattered, but would in all reality be of minimal consequence. How many Legends do we actually see running around the format.
The other rule is the tapped artifact rule. In those early days the design of the cards had this rule in mind. The only cards people play that shut off when tapped have now both been printed to function this way. Which is great, but there were many strategy choices that used to get used that aren't available. Tapping Continuous and Poly artifacts to shut them down can open up many
subtle tactical choices that adds a fine nuance to the game. Also makes Relic Barrier even more useful, and could even give Hyperion Blacksmith relevance, maybe? (most likely not!)
It opens up avenues of play that got used back then that just don't exist currently.
I feel these are options worth exploring, and am interested in other's opinions on these as options to consider. I think adding as much rules flavor without adding the old clunkiness will make this an even better format possibly, but without at least trying it we'll never know.
No sideboard other than a four-pak of Disenchant.
My biggest surprise is how effective Yawgmoth Demon is. 6 power with first strike takes out everything in the air. I find that feeding it isn't too much hassle.
That looks like a blast to play. I like Yawgmoth Demon a lot. I've been thinking of trying to fit him into a deck that uses Priest of Yawgmoth to ramp into him, but I like the reanimate shell. I think that's better. Years ago I tried to build a janky pile with Rukh Egg and Hell's Caretaker and that's what I think of every time I see a Hell's Caretaker. Basically I like everything your doing here.
Personally I think reverting to the older rules just makes things more complicated. Before you know it you'll need an archive of old rules text, and that may create larger barriers to entry for people that want to try the format. There was an article on the old school blog explaining why they don't revert to older versions of the rules, and I think that's worth reading if you're thinking of trying it out. I do think the concept of tapping artifacts to turn them off was great, but it also caused some confusion with things like mana vault and Basalt Monolith. I remember playing with these rules, and would be fine with it personally, but generally see most online groups only bringing back mana burn and "turning off" for Winter Orb (which works that way anyway now). The legend rule is interesting, but I think it would only make Clone slightly more playable. I am not sure it would matter too often for other cards.
I've read every inch of their site, if there is anything online about OldSchool 93/94 out there I've read it. I agree with about 95% of their rules logic. I don't want to go back to Revised combat rules, and as I stated above, glad to be using the Stack instead of batches, no Interrupts, etc. all good things. Much cleaner and easier to play. However I do feel that the two rules
I've brought up both accomplish adding flavor without overcomplicating the rules. I think that you are thinking of the Kamagawa Legendary rule. With the original 94 rule, Clone was not a Legend killer.(see attachment) Karakas would take the biggest hit.
As far as rules complications with tapped Continuous and Poly Artifacts being turned off, every artifact in the format was designed with this rule in mind, also both Basalt Monolith
and Mana Vault are unaffected as they are both Mono Artifacts, which don't interact with the rule. I realize this is a nostalgia format not a historical one. Not trying to recreate the
past, just trying to remember it fondly.
Either way this format is a blast. As a friend of mine that I got into the format said "I haven't had this much fun with Magic in over ten years". As someone that's been playing since August of '94, it's the only way I want to play(most of the time).
If this summer doesn't break me($), I'm hoping to play in Columbus!
I'm currently making new (budget) brews and looking forward to the next tourney. We play by the (strict) Swedish rules, but I hope to get to use my revised duals some day.
I really hope the focus in old school magic will stay on having fun, and not become too competitive where everyone tries to copy the same winning deck lists. Be creative. Make your own crazy homebrew. Have fun