@ Nicogranelli - i've got a bbox built, that can support 1 v 1 or multiplayer. we drew a crowd @ GP charlotte & even had multiple judges get involved. 1 of the highlights was when a judge that was playing had to pull up a card on his phone to figure out how it worked!
As you can tell, it's very much based on Ben Stark's list, but I'm starting to customize it. In general, these are my guiding principles:
1. Cheap 2-for-1s that don't affect the board (i.e divination/mind rot) or minimally affect the board (i.e. geist snatch) are fine
2. Expensive 2-for-1s that affect the board are fine (i.e. Cackling Counterpart and Sever the bloodline)
3. Automatic 3-for-1s that CANNOT BE PLAYED AROUND are, in general, banned.**
4. Speaking of which, sweepers should be COMMON enough that you have to keep them in mind, but RARE enough that they don't show up in the majority of games (2-3% sweepers is what I'm aiming for).
5. Combat tricks should be efficient and strong, but you should be able to play around them. Giant Growth is fine, Channel Harm is not.
6. No deck searching, period.
7. No land destruction, period. I've toyed around with destroyed lands going back to the command zone, so that land destruction can be included as a tempo play, but it didn't play well in my experience. Land bouncing I'm currently up in the air on. For the moment, capsize is in.
8. I'm most interested in including cards that lead to interesting, complex decision. Often this include modal cards, but any card that gives you multiple ways to spend your mana is interesting.
9. A card that is fair/inefficient enough can skirt rules (other than 6 and 7). Whispers of the Muse and some of the Invokers (i.e. smokespew invoker) can essentially be infinity-for-ones, but they can only be used once per turn, use up essentially your whole turn, and have between "some" and "a ton of" answers. This is still magic, and we still need inevitability.
10. No one cards engines/cards that just can't be answered. No ridiculous stuff like Recurring Nightmare. In general, fireballs are not invited. No "I win" cards like Glimpse the sun god or overrun. Hexproof/shroud are restricted to small creature that can actually be reasonably blocked in combat. No unblockability. Intimidate and Protection are fine since all decks are 5 colors.
**Obviously, 3-for-1s are not strictly banned. Wraths are legal becuase they can be played around. Boulderfall can often be a 3-for-1. But it is legal because it is usually a "Kill a creature burn you for 1" or "kill a 2/2 and a 3/3" for EIGHT mana. Murderous Redcap can be a FOUR-for-1, but it is quite possible to play around. Mulldrifter is a card that I've wavered back and forth on. If it didn't have the evoke ability I think I would include it, but the fact that it can be cast on 3 mana puts it A BIT above the line for me. I think it's a reasonable line though. If a card advantage card is BETTER than mulldrifter, I would avoid it. If it is WORSE than mulldrifter, I would include it.
We start with 4 card, 1st player doesn't draw. We've been experimenting with a COLORLESS lotus petal on the draw. A lot of skill in battle box comes from early turn sequencing, and a colorless lotus petal has been more interesting. We've been back an forth on this.
I'm curious if any of you guys have comments on the list. Some thoughts of my own:
1. I used Toxic Deluge in place of Black Sun's Zenith. This may be insane and a terrible decision.
2. I included River Boa because it was in Ben Stark's list. I actually like the idea of it alot, even though it goes against my "no unblockability rule."
3. Kismet is an experiment. Not sure how I feel about it.
I have a few most posts in my head, but I was hoping to spur some discussion in this thread, since I'm really digging this format.
@ Mort459 - glad to hear you're digging the format, its easily become my favorite way to play magic. although our battleboxes are vastly different, as long as your play group's enjoying it, who cares. happy battle-ing
anyone tried (or knows about) a battle box for multiplayer? I would love to have a battle box ready for quick plays, and to be the first experience of ppl joining my group, but every list I saw until now is oriented to 1 vs 1.
I will probably start to design my own MP Battle box, but I wanted to ask first
Mine is built for MP games and supports up to 7 players. The link I provide a few pages back is still good and even recently updated.
We share a graveyard, share a library, start with 7 cards and can hold up to 9, typically start with 20 life each, and the game tends to blow up between turns 5-8, depending on graveyard contents and cards in hand. That said, we do sometimes get all 10 lands out.
I will warn that the game quickly hits a point where everyone is going through the shared graveyard, planning next moves. One partial solution to this is a running tally of creatures and other spell types in the gy, as certain cards in the deck count them. Another partial answer is to keep cards with flashback on the top of the gy; I've recently added a handful of cards that either exile or place cards on the bottom of the deck, which in this format is essentially exiled. Honestly, this format makes for complex games and when a new(er) MtG player tries it out, it slows things down immensely, so be prepared for that. Still, being able to use certain cards - like Spoils of Evil - makes games entertaining.
Modal spells, sweepers, 2 or 3 for 1s, creatures of all casting costs (to include several of the Bringers), unblockables of all types, temporary mana boosts, and X-spells are all featured therein. Landkill is the only strategy not supported, although some strategies are less frequent than others. Phasing and cipher might be the only keywords not used. My group enjoys it, and that is what counts.
I've been working on my own version of this, and I'd like some feedback on my first significant [potential] house rule.
Keeping in mind that the curve is a bit top-heavy at this stage (more fun stuff!), how does giving all cards Cycling 5 sound? It would mean that if you have anything in your hand that looks pretty useless (later in the game), you can simply swap it for the top card, whatever that might be.
Also, I don't otherwise have any "cycling/looting" type cards at all in my list, thus far.
@ greywyn - thats not a completely horrific idea @ all & i'm actually going to mention it to my play group. although i will say that idk how much of a difference i will make late game but it sounds like it could add to the fun. i think the biggest hurdle to overcome, would be not forgetting that you can actually do it!
I started with just cycles but now adjusted it a little and weeded out some of the worse cards.
I'm sticking with no rares for the moment. This makes cards like Overrun, Persuasion, Slice and Dice some of the more powerful in my Battlebox. I am, however, using scry lands instead of just gates or other tapped duals. This means we are NOT using a shared library, but we just sort of evenly split it up before we start. There is no milling possible so the library size is not relevant as long as it 50+ or something.
We playtested this a little. It seems once you get behind on gas or advantage, you will lose the game a couple of turns later. For now, my battlebox will be used for multiplayers, as the tempo gain from cards is less and the format becomes more balanced.
Also, we haven't tested running 1 extra land per player, but it feels like 10 is just what you want, so I feel like keeping it like that.
I love the idea of giving all of the cards cycling, as late game can become a bit stagnant sometimes. I'm toying with the idea of adding an eleventh land to accomplish this goal. Something like:
Bazaar of Battlebox - Land
, :Draw a card, then discard a card.
@ tjbdr, someone posted earlier in this thread about giving all cards cycling 5 & that seemed like a really good idea or you mite consider letting all cards cycle for their respective mana cost...? we havent had this issue 1 v 1 but have experienced it when playing multiplayer battlebox & if you're having issues bogging down late game, you mite want to think about instituting a "sulfuric vortex" type of effect @ some pt in the game to force ppl to get aggressive. idk what a good answer here is, but maybe 5 turns after everyone's made their 10th land drop or if a player goes X # turns in a row w/o attacking, they get shocked...?
Yeah, it doesn't happen too often, but when it does it kind of kills the desire to play again. Often we'll play 5, 6, 7 games in a row, but as soon a game drags on that tends to be the last game played. It might not even be a big enough of an issue to try to fix, but I'll probably play around with some of these suggestions.
It has been awhile since I have posted in here, but the cycling thing didn't work out for us, so we settled on lots of wheels and mass draw effects. The resulting discard phases load the graveyard and someone wins soon after.
An X-burn spell with delve would be awesome.
I've only recently slotted in cards from Origins and since then, so should update my decklist.
Cheers!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If in the area, check out Gamers N Geeks and Mini War Games in Mobile, Alabama and Underhill's Games in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio.
i've made some drastic changes to my box and have another 20-30cards i haven't added onto CT but this is a good showing until i get the changes in. enjoy http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/72492
I've also built a Danger Room of my own fairly recently, here's a link to my Cubetutor page. It's been pretty popular with the guys I draft with as a time killer before drafts. The time for setup compared to cube draft is minimal, and it's usually not hard to knock out a duel in 10-20 minutes.
Here are some of the particulars about my design parameters:
Since players don't have any choice in terms of the cards that are in their deck, I try to make sure the cards give players as many options as possible. This means I've chosen a lot of modal spells, kickers, mana sinks, and cycling cards. This also means that I include a lot of easy ways for players to gain value and draw cards, as well as flashback costs. I want every player to always have interesting choices to make at every step of the way.
To keep games from devolving into control mirrors, I've also included plenty of very efficient beaters and evasive creatures at every point on the curve, and plenty of burn (the original modal spell) so that games will move quickly.
I've made a minor exception to the convention of not allowing ways to get ahead on mana by including some creatures of Eldrazi spawn and scions like Nest Invader and Eldrazi Skyspawner. Vizier of the Tumbling Sands is also an interesting enough cantrip/creature modal spell that it's in as my only mana dork.
For the moment I'm running taplands as my duals, but I'm strongly considering swapping them for the Theros Temples in an upcoming update to add more card selection.
I've included plenty of Morphs and combat tricks so there are plenty of surprises in combat.
Players get a 4-card starting hand and can have one free mulligan.
Maximum hand size is 7.
With Embalm, Aftermath and the return of Cycling, Amonkhet has been a fantastic set for this format. I've actually added over 25 cards from the latest set.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
What are your thoughts using a Danger Room type deck to re-live a block set? For example, take 1 of every common and uncommon of the Return to Rav block and put them all in the deck. In that way you get to play card combos a bit closer to what wizards meant. Has anyone tried something like this?
One modification I was thinking since there will certainly be a fair share of cards you would likely not play in any draft format is when you draw a card, you draw 2 cards instead and discard 1 of them.
Trying to necro this thread to ask a question on Battle Box/Danger room.
In the descriptions I have read from Brian DeMars and Ben Stark, I have seen that they advice a land pool of 10 lands, 5 basics and 5 taplands. I was wondering if people are going by this guidline, or if someone perhaps have tried having all 10 taplands available (along with the basics, perhaps still with a cap of 10 lands in play as maximum)?
I am in the process of putting one together (cards are in the mail), and have done some sample hands using cubetutor and planning out the first few turns. In my draft I have used the 5 allied taplands and 5 basics in the land pool. It just seems strange to me that if I have several double-cost cards in my hand I can plan it out perfectly and (e.g.) go T1:Tranquil Expanse-->T2:Forest+Garruk's Companion-->T3:Plains+Aerial Responder, but if my two drop is Gifted Aetherborn then I can't curve out this way. And have to play one of the cards off curve.
i've made some drastic changes to my box and have another 20-30cards i haven't added onto CT but this is a good showing until i get the changes in. enjoy http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/72492
I've also built a Danger Room of my own fairly recently, here's a link to my Cubetutor page. It's been pretty popular with the guys I draft with as a time killer before drafts. The time for setup compared to cube draft is minimal, and it's usually not hard to knock out a duel in 10-20 minutes.
Here are some of the particulars about my design parameters:
Since players don't have any choice in terms of the cards that are in their deck, I try to make sure the cards give players as many options as possible. This means I've chosen a lot of modal spells, kickers, mana sinks, and cycling cards. This also means that I include a lot of easy ways for players to gain value and draw cards, as well as flashback costs. I want every player to always have interesting choices to make at every step of the way.
To keep games from devolving into control mirrors, I've also included plenty of very efficient beaters and evasive creatures at every point on the curve, and plenty of burn (the original modal spell) so that games will move quickly.
I've made a minor exception to the convention of not allowing ways to get ahead on mana by including some creatures of Eldrazi spawn and scions like Nest Invader and Eldrazi Skyspawner. Vizier of the Tumbling Sands is also an interesting enough cantrip/creature modal spell that it's in as my only mana dork.
For the moment I'm running taplands as my duals, but I'm strongly considering swapping them for the Theros Temples in an upcoming update to add more card selection.
I've included plenty of Morphs and combat tricks so there are plenty of surprises in combat.
Players get a 4-card starting hand and can have one free mulligan.
Maximum hand size is 7.
With Embalm, Aftermath and the return of Cycling, Amonkhet has been a fantastic set for this format. I've actually added over 25 cards from the latest set.
What are your thoughts using a Danger Room type deck to re-live a block set? For example, take 1 of every common and uncommon of the Return to Rav block and put them all in the deck. In that way you get to play card combos a bit closer to what wizards meant. Has anyone tried something like this?
One modification I was thinking since there will certainly be a fair share of cards you would likely not play in any draft format is when you draw a card, you draw 2 cards instead and discard 1 of them.
hello everyone, i figured i'd be the first to repost in here for 2018 and try to revive this thread a bit; I do believe this is actually the best way to play Magic. perhaps you've already seen my box/room but here's a link to it. I'm happy to give a brief overview of what it is and why it's the way it is if anyone is interested or has questions/comments.
as the title suggests, this is probably the highest power level box/room posted on CT (or at least from what I've seen listed)
if anyone knows of ones with similar power, I'd love to see yours/them; or if you just want me to comment or give suggestions, I'm always down to help people.
I initially thought leaving the communal library as is. This would make scry effects interesting as after a scry resolved the other player would play some instant speed draw and "steal" the card. Also Memory Lapse would not only counter the spell, it would flat out steal it. But after reading that Ben Stark recommended dealing out individual libraries for the game, I've deceived to go that route. That way scry works as intended, and I can run things like Nightveil Specter & Etali, Primal Storm and get the full benefit.
I know you're not supposed to run search library cards like Mystical Tutor. But since I'm now dealing libraries out I wonder if it may be acceptable to search your current stack instead of the whole box. I'd love to run cards like Planar Bridge, it really tickles my Timmy Bone. And since the players have no clue what's in the libraries when the effect is played it'd still be random (however they could see what else the deck contained). Any thoughts?
his list is ok. you're better off at looking on cubetutor for some of the more pauper/peasant lists and you'll be able to find a list you'd like to work off of.
This is the current list: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/33478
As you can tell, it's very much based on Ben Stark's list, but I'm starting to customize it. In general, these are my guiding principles:
1. Cheap 2-for-1s that don't affect the board (i.e divination/mind rot) or minimally affect the board (i.e. geist snatch) are fine
2. Expensive 2-for-1s that affect the board are fine (i.e. Cackling Counterpart and Sever the bloodline)
3. Automatic 3-for-1s that CANNOT BE PLAYED AROUND are, in general, banned.**
4. Speaking of which, sweepers should be COMMON enough that you have to keep them in mind, but RARE enough that they don't show up in the majority of games (2-3% sweepers is what I'm aiming for).
5. Combat tricks should be efficient and strong, but you should be able to play around them. Giant Growth is fine, Channel Harm is not.
6. No deck searching, period.
7. No land destruction, period. I've toyed around with destroyed lands going back to the command zone, so that land destruction can be included as a tempo play, but it didn't play well in my experience. Land bouncing I'm currently up in the air on. For the moment, capsize is in.
8. I'm most interested in including cards that lead to interesting, complex decision. Often this include modal cards, but any card that gives you multiple ways to spend your mana is interesting.
9. A card that is fair/inefficient enough can skirt rules (other than 6 and 7). Whispers of the Muse and some of the Invokers (i.e. smokespew invoker) can essentially be infinity-for-ones, but they can only be used once per turn, use up essentially your whole turn, and have between "some" and "a ton of" answers. This is still magic, and we still need inevitability.
10. No one cards engines/cards that just can't be answered. No ridiculous stuff like Recurring Nightmare. In general, fireballs are not invited. No "I win" cards like Glimpse the sun god or overrun. Hexproof/shroud are restricted to small creature that can actually be reasonably blocked in combat. No unblockability. Intimidate and Protection are fine since all decks are 5 colors.
**Obviously, 3-for-1s are not strictly banned. Wraths are legal becuase they can be played around. Boulderfall can often be a 3-for-1. But it is legal because it is usually a "Kill a creature burn you for 1" or "kill a 2/2 and a 3/3" for EIGHT mana. Murderous Redcap can be a FOUR-for-1, but it is quite possible to play around. Mulldrifter is a card that I've wavered back and forth on. If it didn't have the evoke ability I think I would include it, but the fact that it can be cast on 3 mana puts it A BIT above the line for me. I think it's a reasonable line though. If a card advantage card is BETTER than mulldrifter, I would avoid it. If it is WORSE than mulldrifter, I would include it.
We start with 4 card, 1st player doesn't draw. We've been experimenting with a COLORLESS lotus petal on the draw. A lot of skill in battle box comes from early turn sequencing, and a colorless lotus petal has been more interesting. We've been back an forth on this.
I'm curious if any of you guys have comments on the list. Some thoughts of my own:
1. I used Toxic Deluge in place of Black Sun's Zenith. This may be insane and a terrible decision.
2. I included River Boa because it was in Ben Stark's list. I actually like the idea of it alot, even though it goes against my "no unblockability rule."
3. Kismet is an experiment. Not sure how I feel about it.
I have a few most posts in my head, but I was hoping to spur some discussion in this thread, since I'm really digging this format.
We share a graveyard, share a library, start with 7 cards and can hold up to 9, typically start with 20 life each, and the game tends to blow up between turns 5-8, depending on graveyard contents and cards in hand. That said, we do sometimes get all 10 lands out.
I will warn that the game quickly hits a point where everyone is going through the shared graveyard, planning next moves. One partial solution to this is a running tally of creatures and other spell types in the gy, as certain cards in the deck count them. Another partial answer is to keep cards with flashback on the top of the gy; I've recently added a handful of cards that either exile or place cards on the bottom of the deck, which in this format is essentially exiled. Honestly, this format makes for complex games and when a new(er) MtG player tries it out, it slows things down immensely, so be prepared for that. Still, being able to use certain cards - like Spoils of Evil - makes games entertaining.
Modal spells, sweepers, 2 or 3 for 1s, creatures of all casting costs (to include several of the Bringers), unblockables of all types, temporary mana boosts, and X-spells are all featured therein. Landkill is the only strategy not supported, although some strategies are less frequent than others. Phasing and cipher might be the only keywords not used. My group enjoys it, and that is what counts.
I'll come back and edit in a link to my MP box in a moment. My Multiplayer Danger Room/Battle Box
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
Keeping in mind that the curve is a bit top-heavy at this stage (more fun stuff!), how does giving all cards Cycling 5 sound? It would mean that if you have anything in your hand that looks pretty useless (later in the game), you can simply swap it for the top card, whatever that might be.
Also, I don't otherwise have any "cycling/looting" type cards at all in my list, thus far.
Thoughts?
Once I acquire the assorted cards with the above mechanics, I'll update the big deck, again...
Cycling 5 is interesting. I'll bounce it off of my group.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
I started with just cycles but now adjusted it a little and weeded out some of the worse cards.
I'm sticking with no rares for the moment. This makes cards like Overrun, Persuasion, Slice and Dice some of the more powerful in my Battlebox. I am, however, using scry lands instead of just gates or other tapped duals. This means we are NOT using a shared library, but we just sort of evenly split it up before we start. There is no milling possible so the library size is not relevant as long as it 50+ or something.
We playtested this a little. It seems once you get behind on gas or advantage, you will lose the game a couple of turns later. For now, my battlebox will be used for multiplayers, as the tempo gain from cards is less and the format becomes more balanced.
Also, we haven't tested running 1 extra land per player, but it feels like 10 is just what you want, so I feel like keeping it like that.
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
My
540> 360 Powered CubeBazaar of Battlebox - Land
, :Draw a card, then discard a card.
An X-burn spell with delve would be awesome.
I've only recently slotted in cards from Origins and since then, so should update my decklist.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/72492
Here are some of the particulars about my design parameters:
With Embalm, Aftermath and the return of Cycling, Amonkhet has been a fantastic set for this format. I've actually added over 25 cards from the latest set.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
One modification I was thinking since there will certainly be a fair share of cards you would likely not play in any draft format is when you draw a card, you draw 2 cards instead and discard 1 of them.
In the descriptions I have read from Brian DeMars and Ben Stark, I have seen that they advice a land pool of 10 lands, 5 basics and 5 taplands. I was wondering if people are going by this guidline, or if someone perhaps have tried having all 10 taplands available (along with the basics, perhaps still with a cap of 10 lands in play as maximum)?
I am in the process of putting one together (cards are in the mail), and have done some sample hands using cubetutor and planning out the first few turns. In my draft I have used the 5 allied taplands and 5 basics in the land pool. It just seems strange to me that if I have several double-cost cards in my hand I can plan it out perfectly and (e.g.) go T1:Tranquil Expanse-->T2:Forest+Garruk's Companion-->T3:Plains+Aerial Responder, but if my two drop is Gifted Aetherborn then I can't curve out this way. And have to play one of the cards off curve.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/72492 - ALIK4's Powered Battle Box / Powered Danger Room
as the title suggests, this is probably the highest power level box/room posted on CT (or at least from what I've seen listed)
if anyone knows of ones with similar power, I'd love to see yours/them; or if you just want me to comment or give suggestions, I'm always down to help people.
I initially thought leaving the communal library as is. This would make scry effects interesting as after a scry resolved the other player would play some instant speed draw and "steal" the card. Also Memory Lapse would not only counter the spell, it would flat out steal it. But after reading that Ben Stark recommended dealing out individual libraries for the game, I've deceived to go that route. That way scry works as intended, and I can run things like Nightveil Specter & Etali, Primal Storm and get the full benefit.
I know you're not supposed to run search library cards like Mystical Tutor. But since I'm now dealing libraries out I wonder if it may be acceptable to search your current stack instead of the whole box. I'd love to run cards like Planar Bridge, it really tickles my Timmy Bone. And since the players have no clue what's in the libraries when the effect is played it'd still be random (however they could see what else the deck contained). Any thoughts?