I have been playing Threshold variants in Pauper for almost two years now and am very impressed with the (limited) testing I've gotten in so far with Mongoose (about 10 matches). Besides the absence of Bolt, this deck plays very similarly to Legacy's Canadian Threshold, or the UG Threshold decks from old Extended.
Some of the card choices here are a little unintuitive, so here are some notes about the deck.
- 4 Brainstorm: An absurd card. Playing slow fetches is a pretty light cost for getting to run such a broken effect. Fetches also synergize with threshold and Ponder.
- 4 Gush: ...is not too many. I'm amazed more tempo decks in Pauper don't abuse this card, opting instead for junk like Spire Golem. I like having a full hand throughout the game. Gush also helps us get full mileage out of Brainstorm.
- 4 Land Grant: Free shuffle effect for Brainstorm, easy delve/threshold food for Mandrills and Mongoose, and a way to search an untapped green source, all in a card that flips Delver.
- 4 Thought Scour: ...and no Mental Note. Scour helps us land the first green threat, and the other one is usually taken care of by selection and draw spells. I don't think we need more than four Scour effects right now, but it's at least worth remembering that we can play up to eight.
So, that's the blueprint! Is anyone else testing something similar? Feel free to ask questions and I'll answer as best I can... between matches >:)
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
With 4 Gush, I usually only want to spend one mana on each threat. Mandrills can also get around stuff like Relic of Progenitus by delving out the grave and staying large, whereas relying too much on Threshold helps opponents attack multiple threats from the same angle. Lastly, trample is reaaaaally good, even in Pauper (lots of token decks, Squadron Hawks, etc. running around).
I jammed about 6 hours with the deck yesterday, mostly against aggro decks and control strategies like Teachings. I've made some adjustments to the list, including adding mainboard Counterspell (not as hard to cast as I initially assumed), Dispel in the side, and a Feed the Clan. Leaning on Pierce in the lategame doesn't work against the grindy decks.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
The thing I like best about Werebear is that he comes down on turn 2 pretty regularly and can be swinging in for 4 on turn 3 with a decent draw. I have to say, other than that I think I like your list better. I haven't had a chance to actually play with the deck yet though
Comes down on turn two assuming you make two basic land drops. If I open a one-lander with a fetch, I'll fetch on turn 1, then maybe Daze something (in which case Bear won't come down until turn 3 at the earliest). If I don't Daze anything, I'll probably cast Delver/Scour/Pierce/Ponder with the Island I fetched. Chances are slim that I'll Grant for a Forest (or naturally have one of my two Forests in hand) at this point to slam Werebear, for a couple reasons:
- He'll be Boltable. I want Werebear only to come down when he's 4/4. Even nonred decks have answers to a 1/1 Bear, like Gut Shot, Sunlance, Icatian Javelineers, Disfigure, Piracy Charm, etc.
- It's a waste of a Grant. Grant gives us a free shuffle and an instant green source, so I don't want to throw that shuffle away early - unless it's to land something very important, like a Mongoose against CounterBolt.dec while they're tapped out.
For the record, Mandrills can also come down on turn two with a little help from one Scour, or some kind of Daze/Fetch/Grant/Probe draw, and swing for 4 on turn 3. But it's much safer than committing a 1/1 Bear on turn 2. Also, I like to interact and cantrip/play Delver or Mongoose on turn two a lot better than rushing out a fatty when I have the choice.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I think your list is too counter-heavy. You definitely want Daze over Force Spike. You also need Gush IMO. I agree that red is superb in this deck; it's just a matter of making it work with Gush. Without Gush, you have a lot of trouble beating attrition decks in my experience.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I've been playing UG Madness since VMA so I have some experience under my belt when it comes to Hooting Mandrills vs Werebear. In this deck, it seems the Werebear is simply better, as in no way are you going to drop seven cards to consistently have Threshold active vs 7 + 5 for each Mandrills you play. While it's true playing Werebear allows opponents to attack it from the same angle that Mongoose, they will likely be doing so anyways, and dumping 14 cards (activating Threshold again after the Graveyard gets exiled) is not that much of a stretch from 12 (Thresh + one Mandrill). Mandrills are also pretty feel bad against bounce and counters, which will effectively burn your fuel for nothing and even permanently answer your threat in the case of the counterspell. Furthermore, you don't have any discard outlets to feed Mandrills to, and with all the card draw multiples will end dead in your hand or fighting for the 'yard between themselves and the Gooses.
Thus I think that the playset should be Werebears, with 2 Hooting Mandrills to up the threat count a little bit against removal heavy decks. Here's what I'm playing:
8 fetches seems a bit slow IMO, but I haven't had mana problems yet between them, Land Grant and the cantrips. Should we trim 1-2 of them to be a bit faster?
Alternatively, I'm also working on a Madness Thresh version of this:
This one's a bit stacked, so I'm working on making some spots for a playset of Delver of Secrets, probably starting by dropping a Wurm and an Analysis, and I'd also like to fit in 2-3 Ponder. Analysis is here instead of Gush because of it's sinergy alongside Rootwalla with the discard outlets. If I don't have enough mana to cast a Wurm or the situation doesn't require a Circular Logic I can simply drop either one to a Lightning Axe or a Mongrel.
IMO the selling point of Madness over regular RUG are Circular Logic, Arrogant Wurm and Lightning Axe which are all undercosted powerhouses, but at the same time Mongrel and Rootwalla eat up some precious spell spots with Creatures.
I've also been kinda wanting to add 2 mainboard Spell Pierce to the first list, but not kinda sure what to cut. Also I believe Forked Bolt is only Paper legal, sadly.
So I'm keeping my (under development) list on tapped out. The main finding I've got is that you can lower the number of lands quite a lot! I found myself flooding too much with 16 lands so now I'm all the way down to 13
I've been playtesting the build I posted all afternoon and I will definitely cut 1-2 fetchlands. The deck goes too slow with that much of them to excel at Tempo.
Generally I achieve Threshold around turn 4. I'm thinking about adding some Gitaxian Probe, probably 2-3, to have that extra oomph to achieve Threshold around turn 3. Plus it gives me information about their hand and makes otherwise risky hands more keepable due to seeing one more card.
About Mandrills, I've got mixed feelings about them. Whenever I find them early game, I generally tuck them away with Brainstorm because I don't want to eat up the Thresh fuel, but in turns 5-6 they're okay. Definitely prefer Werebear even if it costs 2 mana: I don't like my creatures fighting themselves over the graveyard fuel, especially in the critical early turns. Werebear can also provide one mana in a pinch, and since we're usually low on lands, it's something to take into account.
I'll shy away from Thought Scour for the moment since I don't have problems achieving Thresh around turn 4 (turn 3 with a bit of luck), and I've always thought it's a suboptimal card. If I'm going that route and have to play bad cantrips, I might as well play Delver Angler.
As it stands, this deck is a much better Angler Delver. Mongoose is a superb threat in this format, and green gives us access to Land Grant and sweet SB options. Scour is necessary in this deck when you go the 4 Mongoose/4 Mandrills route, so I can see why you wouldn't want them in a Werebear build. I just still don't think Werebear is where we want to be. It's expensive and gets chumped forever.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
As it stands, this deck is a much better Angler Delver. Mongoose is a superb threat in this format, and green gives us access to Land Grant and sweet SB options. Scour is necessary in this deck when you go the 4 Mongoose/4 Mandrills route, so I can see why you wouldn't want them in a Werebear build. I just still don't think Werebear is where we want to be. It's expensive and gets chumped forever.
Hey, I think you're the guy I jammed like 30 games with a couple days ago. Great matches. I've played against other takes on the UB threshold deck, and I agree on your point about Werebear. It was very clunky and slowed them down. Not to mention that it didn't have trample like hooting mandrills, which is actually relevant. I think 4 Delver of Secrets, 4 Nimble Mongoose, and 4Hooting Mandrills is the way to go when it comes to creatures.
As it stands, this deck is a much better Angler Delver. Mongoose is a superb threat in this format, and green gives us access to Land Grant and sweet SB options. Scour is necessary in this deck when you go the 4 Mongoose/4 Mandrills route, so I can see why you wouldn't want them in a Werebear build. I just still don't think Werebear is where we want to be. It's expensive and gets chumped forever.
Gurmag Angler dies to exactly the same cards that Nimble Mongoose do plus Journey to Nowhere, and it's harder to kill in combat. Furthermore Angler is superior to Mandrills even without the Trample, that's why I said if I'm going to play bad cantrips like Thought Scour and Mental Note to turbofill the 'yard I'd rather go UB or UBg since it has the two hottest creatures in pauper at the moment, counters and removal (and Putrid Leech if you're up for that sort of thing). But I digress.
Werebear hasn't been expensive at all in my testing, perhaps because I've been running 17-18 lands. On the contrary, I've disliked Mandrills every time I've drawn them early, and the Trample hasn't been a big deal. Sure Werebear can be chumpblocked, but with counters and removal to clear the path it's not going to get blocked for long, whereas a simple bounce or counter would empty the graveyard and deal with the Mandrills accordingly in my testing. As I said, an opener with Mongoose + Mandrills is pretty feelbad when you have to spend your first turns and your precious tempo making them able to coexist.
It makes sense that you would dislike drawing Mandrills since your build has so many lands and no Scour effects. I actually don't mind those threat-heavy openers as long as they have a blue source and a cantrip. That lets me get digging and if I don't have a ton of cards in the Graveyard by the time I find Brainstorm, I can just shuffle one threat away.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Hey @Zephyr, been reading your post for some time now, and i like the way you think. Started playing the Pauper Caw Blade beacuse of you, and really like that deck.
About this brew, i remember some lists trying to use the Scythe Tiger Tiger with the Moldgraf Scavenger so, couldn't the Tiger be Nimble Mongoose 5~8? We have to sacrifice a land, but i think it deserves to be tested.
Hey @Zephyr, been reading your post for some time now, and i like the way you think. Started playing the Pauper Caw Blade beacuse of you, and really like that deck.
About this brew, i remember some lists trying to use the Scythe Tiger Tiger with the Moldgraf Scavenger so, couldn't the Tiger be Nimble Mongoose 5~8? We have to sacrifice a land, but i think it deserves to be tested.
Possibly, But you would have to do some tuning to the mana-base as well as the overall list. What do you propose would be a good starting point?
I played a pair of Scythe Tiger in the side when Cruise was legal to have an untargetable threat against the UR(x) Control decks. It only worked in that deck because I was drawing so many extra cards between 4 Gush and 4 Cruise that the card disadvantage of sacrificing a land was mitigated. But even then it was clunky sometimes. I really don't think it will work in this archetype since we're so land light and can't pull THAT far ahead on cards. Also can't think of a deck where we need the Mongoose effect so badly that we would play Scythe Tiger as extra copies. But if you have answers to these concerns I'm very curious to hear them.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I don't think Scythe Tiger is where we want to be. I used to run it precisely as Pauper's Mongoose, but now that we have the real one, no need to do that. Plus it has two toughness, which makes it substantially worse as it makes every 2/x a 2-for-1.
Bit new to Pauper here. I mainly got inspired to start playing because of EMA, more specifically its inclusion of Nimble Mongoose. And thus I ended up here.
I have a list going, but before I post it, have people thought at all of including Memory Lapse or Pulse of Murasa? The former seems like it could do better than Counterspell, while the latter could work as a 1-of for late-game recovery.
If I may attempt to add something to this thread, I'd first like to say that it is super awesome to see Simic Delver getting some love. To add to the Werebear vs Mandrils debate, I feel like people are confusing Mongoose and Mandrils for either Mongoose and goyf in legacy, or Mandrills and Goyf in Modern. In Legacy, the two play well together because they both love a stocked graveyard. Goyf doesn't come down any sooner that Werebear, and in most case is a 4 power creature as well. In Modern, Goyf and Mandrills can work together because Tarmogoyf can use the opponants graveyard as well, so if you delve away your entire GY, Goyf might still be a 2/3 or 3/4. Also, once you do empty the yard, simply playing any cantrip plus a counter will make Goyf a sizeable creature again. With Mongoose and Mandrills, you always need the yard to have 7 cards minimum or else Mongoose is a 1/1. If you have both in your opener, you cant really have both do well early on.
Also, I love RUG, but it seems that adding a third color would slow this deck down so much and we couldn't play Counterspell due to color contraints. I think that Snap and Vapor Snag can work as bolt replacements with Gush to make up for card disadvantage. Maybe I'm wrong on both of these, but does anyone have any thoughts?
From my testing, playing UG is the same as playing RUG. We run so many fetchlands that our tempo isn't going to be better by cutting Red. And since we want UG up ASAP, Counterspell isn't gonna happen half of the time. Thus adding a singleton Mountain greatly enhaces our removal suite, and Bolts do double duty as finishers. The Mountain is just a bit awkward when you have UG and need R to get rid of a threat but you also have Gush sitting in your hand, but this is usually negligible due to 8 cantrips and the fetchlands providing the second island quite fast.
Memory Lapse is a card I'm eyeing because it's basically a Time Walk and I really think it should be a 3-4 of, but my list is pretty stocked right now and I don't know what to cut. Perhaps trimming Spell Pierce and Flame Slash to make room.
First of all, english isnt my main language, so, mistakes will gonna happen. Sorry!
Im seeing for Mongoose since the spoilers and dreaming about the treshould all this time. Looking this thread, searching ideas and pondering about lista and testing they all, i realize feel things.
This deck works like a tempo deck, and your deck is less effective turn after turn. You gonna see a lot of gurmag anglers, myr enforcers and carapace forgers at turn 3 or 4, and you cant deal with this easy without red, but, 6 fetchs to splash red, lands tapped will be difficult to give you the tempo thing.
I made choices to be more effective and fast as possible, with a strategy a little different than what i am seeing in the decks.
Im not edit it was a deck cause im at cellphone, sorry.
So, about the list.
Not tapped lands to be more fast.
Land Grant is a great deal with you use it at max turn 3, to search your 3th land. In some tests with more lands ive beeing stucked and cant play land Grant alternative cost soon, and Grant be a dead Card at my hand, so, i start to cutting lands until this number and im using 16 cantrips. 1 Island hands is very playable as well.
Tonight i will play some games and test for more contribution here.
I am not sure if Daze is very good in this deck. You are not so fast and after a couple of turns it seems to be a dead card.
Mono-blue Delver decks sometimes play Force Spike which seems like a worse card than Daze. You want to be able to play spells, such as a turn 1-2 creature while knowing you can counter their Chainer's Edict or perhaps a Gurmag Angler. Winning counter wars with Daze feels awesome.
As far as adding red, I didn't think of the bonus of playing Red Blasts against other delver decks. Also, is Land Grant basically a better fetch "land" than our other fetches, besides the fact that it can only grab a forest. Perhaps we could run some number of RG tapped lands to fix both colors with only one land. Our fetches come into play tapped anyway
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4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Hooting Mandrills
Instants (22)
4 Gush
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Thought Scour
3 Spell Pierce
3 Snap
4 Land Grant
4 Ponder
2 Gitaxian Probe
Lands (16)
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Evolving Wilds
6 Island
2 Forest
3 Exclude
4 Gut Shot
1 Spell Pierce
2 Mana Leak
2 Feed the Clan
1 Snap
2 Relic of Progenitus
Some of the card choices here are a little unintuitive, so here are some notes about the deck.
- 4 Brainstorm: An absurd card. Playing slow fetches is a pretty light cost for getting to run such a broken effect. Fetches also synergize with threshold and Ponder.
- 4 Gush: ...is not too many. I'm amazed more tempo decks in Pauper don't abuse this card, opting instead for junk like Spire Golem. I like having a full hand throughout the game. Gush also helps us get full mileage out of Brainstorm.
- 4 Land Grant: Free shuffle effect for Brainstorm, easy delve/threshold food for Mandrills and Mongoose, and a way to search an untapped green source, all in a card that flips Delver.
- 4 Thought Scour: ...and no Mental Note. Scour helps us land the first green threat, and the other one is usually taken care of by selection and draw spells. I don't think we need more than four Scour effects right now, but it's at least worth remembering that we can play up to eight.
So, that's the blueprint! Is anyone else testing something similar? Feel free to ask questions and I'll answer as best I can... between matches >:)
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
EDIT: Also, why not use Werebear over Hooting Mandrills, less anti-synergy with Mongoose
With 4 Gush, I usually only want to spend one mana on each threat. Mandrills can also get around stuff like Relic of Progenitus by delving out the grave and staying large, whereas relying too much on Threshold helps opponents attack multiple threats from the same angle. Lastly, trample is reaaaaally good, even in Pauper (lots of token decks, Squadron Hawks, etc. running around).
I jammed about 6 hours with the deck yesterday, mostly against aggro decks and control strategies like Teachings. I've made some adjustments to the list, including adding mainboard Counterspell (not as hard to cast as I initially assumed), Dispel in the side, and a Feed the Clan. Leaning on Pierce in the lategame doesn't work against the grindy decks.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Werebear
4 Nimble Mongoose
Spells
4 Mental Note
1 Dispel
4 Thought Scour
4 Ponder
4 Rune Snag
4 Daze
4 Commune with the Gods
1 Piracy Charm
2 Gush
1 Vapor Snag
4 Snap
8 Island
3 Forest
4 Thornwood Falls
Any thoughts?
Other cards I considered include (but are not limited to):
Rites of Spring
Land Grant
Vines of Vastwood
Mutagenic Growth
Careful Study
Rites of Refusal
Muscle Burst
Accumulated Knowledge
Evolution Charm
Mulch
Counterspell
Pulse of Murasa
Hooting Mandrills
The thing I like best about Werebear is that he comes down on turn 2 pretty regularly and can be swinging in for 4 on turn 3 with a decent draw. I have to say, other than that I think I like your list better. I haven't had a chance to actually play with the deck yet though
- He'll be Boltable. I want Werebear only to come down when he's 4/4. Even nonred decks have answers to a 1/1 Bear, like Gut Shot, Sunlance, Icatian Javelineers, Disfigure, Piracy Charm, etc.
- It's a waste of a Grant. Grant gives us a free shuffle and an instant green source, so I don't want to throw that shuffle away early - unless it's to land something very important, like a Mongoose against CounterBolt.dec while they're tapped out.
For the record, Mandrills can also come down on turn two with a little help from one Scour, or some kind of Daze/Fetch/Grant/Probe draw, and swing for 4 on turn 3. But it's much safer than committing a 1/1 Bear on turn 2. Also, I like to interact and cantrip/play Delver or Mongoose on turn two a lot better than rushing out a fatty when I have the choice.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Attached a fun stack war I won
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Thus I think that the playset should be Werebears, with 2 Hooting Mandrills to up the threat count a little bit against removal heavy decks. Here's what I'm playing:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Werebear
2 Hooting Mandrills
Instant (18)
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Daze
3 Mana Leak
3 Gush
4 Ponder
4 Land Grant
2 Flame Slash
Land (18)
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Terramorphic Expanse
7 Island
2 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Pyroblast
2 Gorilla Shaman
2 Electrickery
3 Gut Shot
2 Feed the Clan
2 Hydroblast
1 Hidden Spider
8 fetches seems a bit slow IMO, but I haven't had mana problems yet between them, Land Grant and the cantrips. Should we trim 1-2 of them to be a bit faster?
Alternatively, I'm also working on a Madness Thresh version of this:
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Werebear
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Arrogant Wurm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Axe
4 Circular Logic
4 Brainstorm
2 Daze
3 Deep Analysis
Land (19)
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Mountain
4 Forest
5 Island
This one's a bit stacked, so I'm working on making some spots for a playset of Delver of Secrets, probably starting by dropping a Wurm and an Analysis, and I'd also like to fit in 2-3 Ponder. Analysis is here instead of Gush because of it's sinergy alongside Rootwalla with the discard outlets. If I don't have enough mana to cast a Wurm or the situation doesn't require a Circular Logic I can simply drop either one to a Lightning Axe or a Mongrel.
IMO the selling point of Madness over regular RUG are Circular Logic, Arrogant Wurm and Lightning Axe which are all undercosted powerhouses, but at the same time Mongrel and Rootwalla eat up some precious spell spots with Creatures.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
I've also been kinda wanting to add 2 mainboard Spell Pierce to the first list, but not kinda sure what to cut. Also I believe Forked Bolt is only Paper legal, sadly.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Also I kinda prefer the Pierces MB since the sideboard already has better 1 CMC counters in both Blasts.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Werebear
2 Hooting Mandrills
Instant (19)
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Gush
3 Daze
3 Mana Leak
2 Spell Pierce
4 Land Grant
4 Ponder
2 Flame Slash
Land (17)
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Terramorphic Expanse
7 Island
3 Forest
1 Mountain
Generally I achieve Threshold around turn 4. I'm thinking about adding some Gitaxian Probe, probably 2-3, to have that extra oomph to achieve Threshold around turn 3. Plus it gives me information about their hand and makes otherwise risky hands more keepable due to seeing one more card.
About Mandrills, I've got mixed feelings about them. Whenever I find them early game, I generally tuck them away with Brainstorm because I don't want to eat up the Thresh fuel, but in turns 5-6 they're okay. Definitely prefer Werebear even if it costs 2 mana: I don't like my creatures fighting themselves over the graveyard fuel, especially in the critical early turns. Werebear can also provide one mana in a pinch, and since we're usually low on lands, it's something to take into account.
I'll shy away from Thought Scour for the moment since I don't have problems achieving Thresh around turn 4 (turn 3 with a bit of luck), and I've always thought it's a suboptimal card. If I'm going that route and have to play bad cantrips, I might as well play Delver Angler.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Hey, I think you're the guy I jammed like 30 games with a couple days ago. Great matches. I've played against other takes on the UB threshold deck, and I agree on your point about Werebear. It was very clunky and slowed them down. Not to mention that it didn't have trample like hooting mandrills, which is actually relevant. I think 4 Delver of Secrets, 4 Nimble Mongoose, and 4Hooting Mandrills is the way to go when it comes to creatures.
Gurmag Angler dies to exactly the same cards that Nimble Mongoose do plus Journey to Nowhere, and it's harder to kill in combat. Furthermore Angler is superior to Mandrills even without the Trample, that's why I said if I'm going to play bad cantrips like Thought Scour and Mental Note to turbofill the 'yard I'd rather go UB or UBg since it has the two hottest creatures in pauper at the moment, counters and removal (and Putrid Leech if you're up for that sort of thing). But I digress.
Werebear hasn't been expensive at all in my testing, perhaps because I've been running 17-18 lands. On the contrary, I've disliked Mandrills every time I've drawn them early, and the Trample hasn't been a big deal. Sure Werebear can be chumpblocked, but with counters and removal to clear the path it's not going to get blocked for long, whereas a simple bounce or counter would empty the graveyard and deal with the Mandrills accordingly in my testing. As I said, an opener with Mongoose + Mandrills is pretty feelbad when you have to spend your first turns and your precious tempo making them able to coexist.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
I was really glad when I saw the Mongoose too.
Hey @Zephyr, been reading your post for some time now, and i like the way you think. Started playing the Pauper Caw Blade beacuse of you, and really like that deck.
About this brew, i remember some lists trying to use the Scythe Tiger Tiger with the Moldgraf Scavenger so, couldn't the Tiger be Nimble Mongoose 5~8? We have to sacrifice a land, but i think it deserves to be tested.
Possibly, But you would have to do some tuning to the mana-base as well as the overall list. What do you propose would be a good starting point?
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Bit new to Pauper here. I mainly got inspired to start playing because of EMA, more specifically its inclusion of Nimble Mongoose. And thus I ended up here.
I have a list going, but before I post it, have people thought at all of including Memory Lapse or Pulse of Murasa? The former seems like it could do better than Counterspell, while the latter could work as a 1-of for late-game recovery.
Also, I love RUG, but it seems that adding a third color would slow this deck down so much and we couldn't play Counterspell due to color contraints. I think that Snap and Vapor Snag can work as bolt replacements with Gush to make up for card disadvantage. Maybe I'm wrong on both of these, but does anyone have any thoughts?
Memory Lapse is a card I'm eyeing because it's basically a Time Walk and I really think it should be a 3-4 of, but my list is pretty stocked right now and I don't know what to cut. Perhaps trimming Spell Pierce and Flame Slash to make room.
Here's my current list for reference:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Werebear
2 Hooting Mandrills
Instant (18)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Brainstorm
4 Spell Pierce
3 Daze
3 Gush
4 Ponder
4 Land Grant
3 Flame Slash
Lands (17)
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Terramorphic Expanse
7 Island
3 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Pyroblast
3 Dispel
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Electrickery
2 Feed the Clan
2 Spreading Seas
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
First of all, english isnt my main language, so, mistakes will gonna happen. Sorry!
Im seeing for Mongoose since the spoilers and dreaming about the treshould all this time. Looking this thread, searching ideas and pondering about lista and testing they all, i realize feel things.
This deck works like a tempo deck, and your deck is less effective turn after turn. You gonna see a lot of gurmag anglers, myr enforcers and carapace forgers at turn 3 or 4, and you cant deal with this easy without red, but, 6 fetchs to splash red, lands tapped will be difficult to give you the tempo thing.
I made choices to be more effective and fast as possible, with a strategy a little different than what i am seeing in the decks.
This is the list what im testing atm:
10 islands
3 Forest
4 land Grant
4 delver of secrets
4 nimble Mongoose
4 jeskai sage
3 werebear
4 ponder
4 preordain
4 brainstorm
4 gitaxian probe
4 daze
3 memory lapse/mana leak
2 spell pierce
3 vapor snag
Im not edit it was a deck cause im at cellphone, sorry.
So, about the list.
Not tapped lands to be more fast.
Land Grant is a great deal with you use it at max turn 3, to search your 3th land. In some tests with more lands ive beeing stucked and cant play land Grant alternative cost soon, and Grant be a dead Card at my hand, so, i start to cutting lands until this number and im using 16 cantrips. 1 Island hands is very playable as well.
Tonight i will play some games and test for more contribution here.
C u all
Mono-blue Delver decks sometimes play Force Spike which seems like a worse card than Daze. You want to be able to play spells, such as a turn 1-2 creature while knowing you can counter their Chainer's Edict or perhaps a Gurmag Angler. Winning counter wars with Daze feels awesome.
As far as adding red, I didn't think of the bonus of playing Red Blasts against other delver decks. Also, is Land Grant basically a better fetch "land" than our other fetches, besides the fact that it can only grab a forest. Perhaps we could run some number of RG tapped lands to fix both colors with only one land. Our fetches come into play tapped anyway