This guy got a 4-0 over a week ago using 4 Temur Battle Rage. Seems really solid, and yet the build looks massively different in order to make the most of this new card. What do you think of the list?
Hi, I've been playing with nearly the exact same list (I don't play the mutagenic growth but I'm strongly considering adding them), and I have to say I really like it, it feels very strong. Temur battle rage lets you stop worrying about blockers and removing cards like assault strobe. Apostle blessing can save your creatures from a removal and get aroung blockers if necessary. Free spells like gush and probe make the deck work really well by allowing you to get cards in your graveyard for cruising and boosting fiends sometimes to a point it does not need double strike to one-shot your opponent
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MTGO Username: Tajicyolo
Currently Playing:
Modern Grixis Shadow, Storm Legacy: Grixis Delver, Sneak and Show Duel Commander:Kess High Tide Vintage Big blue(MTGO)
I find Temur Battle Rage really interesting, and it's making me want to pick up the deck. I actually like the inclusion of all these off-colour phyrexian spells. Because of the 2cc of Rage, I think it's very appropriate to jam in as many free (and cantripping) spells as possible. I appreciate that he basically cut out the weakest part of the combo (the unblockable spells) and concentrated on other things that make the deck good.
Double Strike is usually enough to prevent your creature from dying by the way, assuming you are attacking with a 7/2, you opponent would need at least 2 Spire Golem to kill it, and then you could play one more instant.
Maybe going back from Artful Dodge to Shadow Rift would make sense in such a build because of instant speed and because you don't need as much the flashback of you have TBR anyway.
Gitaxian Probe is hundred times better than Manamorphose for this deck but it's still not completely bad, if it was U/R instead of G/R it would be easier too since it could fix our mana a little bit better but now it just fixes one color.
We know with ~18 lands how bad with need blue in our opener play all the cantrips.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Hi I am a total NEWB (to the forum and kinda to the game)! I recently decided to get back into Magic after taking a 10 year break (reliving my adolescence I suppose). I decided to build this deck because it seemed fun to play, though it hasnt been easy to get all of the cards where I live. Would love some advice on deckbuilding/matchups
I have been playing this deck for a couple of months now and doing pretty well (though I only play paper) in my local shop, consistently placing in 2nd in our local tournaments, however I am finding it nearly impossible to beat MBC even on game 1 (Crypt Rats, Geth's verdict) and especially after sideboard, (Mind Wrench, Hymn to Tourach, Chainer's Edict the flashback is the worst!). The other decks I have a hard time with are UR Delver, Boroskitty, and MU Delver, and sometimes affinity but these matchups are still doable after my sideboard (but its hard to sideboard for all of them - and because of where I live I dont have easy access to a lot of cards)
As you can see I run Manamorphose instead of Gush/Treasure Cruise (I dont have Gush and its hard to find here), and have been experimenting with cutting down on the Lightning Bolts in favor of more pumps/creature protection. I am also running Distortion Strike for the same reason (cant find Shadow Rift or Artfull dodge here) but I would like to change 2 out for maybe 2x Shadow Rift - the one thing I kind like about Distortion Strike though is that I can play it the turn before on my flipped delver (the same turn I play a Nivix or Kiln Fiend) and have it come back for free next turn.
As far as sideboard goes, I have ordered some Gorilla Shaman and Pyroblast/Hydroblast but it takes 2 months to get here - but I am open to suggestions/ help figuring out what I can do to make this deck better
They must be playing some kind of uncommon legal variant because Chainer's Edict is Uncommon. Hymn isn't really a card we face online either because it was not printed at common.
Dispel helps some, but it's a bad matchup. You can try Negate too.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
It's quite probable that his local game store accepts online-only rarities as well as paper-only rarities, in which case Hymn to Tourach could live alongside Chainer's Edict.
Mogg War Marshal seems like the best bet when fighting MBC. You'll just have to eat the Hymn, though. There isn't much to do about that. You can try using Brainstorm and then putting cards you definitely want to keep back on top of your library. With a fetches build, you could definitely incorporate that easily. You can trump Wrench Mind by using a few Artifact Lands. People won't typically board in Artifact hate against you (it would be a huge mistake, anyways), so it's a pretty safe thing to do.
They must be playing some kind of uncommon legal variant because Chainer's Edict is Uncommon. Hymn isn't really a card we face online either because it was not printed at common.
It does sound like they're mixing legalities, because Chainer's Edict has only been common in Vintage Masters, while Hymn to Tourach was only common in Fallen Empires - the former counts for online legality, the latter for paper. But paper pauper is always kind of a guessing game as to what people are going to claim is legal.
I believe Delver Fiend lost to Boros Kitty in MTGStrat's pauper gauntlet. I haven't seen Boros Kitty win a single daily even yet we have so much trouble with them for some reason.
They haven't hit the dailies for a while, but they had a good run for a couple of months a year or so ago. They win by grinding for incremental value, so Treasure Cruise really crushes them. If you're susceptible to being controlled by one-mana red spells, though, you could have serious trouble.
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Oh, you think the losers' bracket is your ally, but you merely adopted the scrub tier. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t 4-0 an FNM until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but an extra pack to sell for store credit!
Some lists included Mogg War Marshal to fight MBC's sacrifice based removal. Others include Stormbound Geist.
Thanks for the advice. Stormbound Geist seems like a home run because it has a nice body plus evasion, and generally my games vs MBC run long - making him better than Mogg War Marshal in the late game (its just too easy for them to kill those tokens with Crypt Rats
You may want to try out the new Temur Battle Rage vesion of the deck. It includes mutagenic growth so it may help you get around crypt rats and damage based removal until your opponents catch on.
In my last game against MBC I actually tried sideboarding in 4x mutagenic growths, but the problem was still with the Crypt Rats because he doesnt have to even tap them to use them - and late game getting an extra couple of mana to kill my Kiln Fiend or Delver is not hard. "I pay 2 mana to deal 2 damage to all creatures - ok I play mutagenic growth - ok in response I pay 2 more mana (because its all on the stack still and nothing has died yet)" which really sucks because now I lost 6 life and a kiln fiend/flipped delver of secrets
Is there anything like lignify available in red or blue or artifact (or phyrexian/aternative mana costs) for pauper?
There's always Outwit for discard and sacrifice based spells but its not really a card that's great otherwise.
Outwit seems like a good sideboard choice - though it would leave me with very little room to sideboard for anyone else Still I am going to try it and let yall know
They must be playing some kind of uncommon legal variant because Chainer's Edict is Uncommon. Hymn isn't really a card we face online either because it was not printed at common.
It does sound like they're mixing legalities, because Chainer's Edict has only been common in Vintage Masters, while Hymn to Tourach was only common in Fallen Empires - the former counts for online legality, the latter for paper. But paper pauper is always kind of a guessing game as to what people are going to claim is legal.
Yeah our store allows anything that was printed at common level in either foramt (paper/online), which allows for a lot of breathing room when building a deck
They haven't hit the dailies for a while, but they had a good run for a couple of months a year or so ago. They win by grinding for incremental value, so Treasure Cruise really crushes them. If you're susceptible to being controlled by one-mana red spells, though, you could have serious trouble.
My problem with Boros is usually 3 things: the first is journey to nowhere, then after sideboard it gets worse with circle of protection: red, and the third is 1 red mana spells like pyroblast, and red elemental blast (which destroy any of my creatures at any point in the game!). Treasure Cruise seems like it could help, but doesnt really feel like a game changer. The only times I have won vs Boros is when I flip a delver turn 2 and am able to buff him (instead of the cyclops or fiend), and hit direclty with a couple of lightning bolts. The other route I have been thinking about is attacking their card draw mechanism via Gorilla Shaman but Im not sure how effective that would be.
How successful have you guys been vs Delverblue and/or UR Delver? How about vs Affinity?
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Again, the problem with Crypt Rats is that if he has open mana, he can just activate the ability a second time and add it to the stack "Tap 2, Crypt Rats does 2 damage and kills your Kiln Fiend" "Ok in response I pay 2 life and 1 mana and play Apostle's Blessing" "Ok while Apostle's blessing is still on the stack I tap 2 more mana and deal 2 damage to Kiln Fiend" and hes dead Seem's like my only strategy is removal
Mogg War Marshal seems like a good card - but those 1/1s are just too easy to kill off quickly - I may try testing out 2x Mogg and 2x Stormbound
The scenario you are describing can't hardly happen on turn 3 or 4, not to say that you can Bolt the Crypt Rats. Since we usually win on turn 4, I still don't see how Crypt Rats is a problem.
But I'm playing Reckless Charge in my build so I can go all in in one turn if I need to (with protection and kill spell for whatever is on the battlefield). But that's plan B, winning on turn 5-6.
MBC isn't really played anymore because of Treasure Cruise anyway.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I have been trying to play this it seems too slow for whats intended. Blue destroys it and counters are rough. I seem to never be able to keep a creature on the board or get one on there.
I have been trying to play this it seems too slow for whats intended. Blue destroys it and counters are rough. I seem to never be able to keep a creature on the board or get one on there.
Having the same issues. My buddy is running a UR Control/Midrange and I'm running this and having issues getting anything on the board.
The scenario you are describing can't hardly happen on turn 3 or 4, not to say that you can Bolt the Crypt Rats. Since we usually win on turn 4, I still don't see how Crypt Rats is a problem.
But I'm playing Reckless Charge in my build so I can go all in in one turn if I need to (with protection and kill spell for whatever is on the battlefield). But that's plan B, winning on turn 5-6.
MBC isn't really played anymore because of Treasure Cruise anyway.
Yeah I feel you, this deck is supposed to win on turn 4 (sometimes on turn 3!) but against MBC its just not that easy - especially after sideboard when you have taken pumps/cantrips out to put more counter magic in. The problem isnt just 1 card, its the whole deck - youve already wasted counter magic and apostles blessing on geths verdict chandlers edict and wrench mind and then turn 4 or 5 you have to deal with crypt rats.
Also not sure why youre saying that no one plays MBC because of treasure cruise - there are still plenty of people playing MBC and owning against Eye Candy
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
My local meta is 20% MBC, 20% Delver Blue/RB Delver, 10% Affinity, 10% Boros, 10% Stompy, 10% Infect, 10% Burn, and 10% random decks. The tournaments are usually won by either MBC or Delverblue. I have placed in 2nd a few times, and semi finaled a couple of times, but have a hard time beating MBC/Devler Blue in the final
Yeah, Battle Rage is a stock card now, and most lists run gush. The 4-0 list at the top of this daily http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/pauper-daily-2015-04-19 is pretty close to average, though the distortion strikes are a bit unusual. Normally I think those two would have been a mutagenic growth and maybe another land.
Well I finally won my first tourney with this deck Ironically it was the first time I didnt have to play against MBC - more luck than anything else I think. Still having a hard time sidebaording for MBC/allowing room for other decks. Will post my decklist soon.
So with the printing of Gut Shot at common, do you think this deck will become even more entrenched into the Temur Battle Rage camp? It can now load up on so many free spells that it can definitely keep the two mana up easily.
I recently played against the mirror match in my lgs finals - he was running temur/mutagenic, i was running artful dodge/assault strobe - and I won the second and third games pretty easily - its just too easy to counter temur Battle rage - when I know that his whole deck is built around it
I recently played against the mirror match in my lgs finals - he was running temur/mutagenic, i was running artful dodge/assault strobe - and I won the second and third games pretty easily - its just too easy to counter temur Battle rage - when I know that his whole deck is built around it
It shouldn't be easy to counter Temur Battle Rage, if he's playing appropriately around your counters, probably with counters of his own.
Oh, you think the losers' bracket is your ally, but you merely adopted the scrub tier. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t 4-0 an FNM until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but an extra pack to sell for store credit!
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4 Delver of Secrets
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Nivix Cyclops
Sorcery (14)
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
2 Treasure Cruise
Instant (17)
4 Apostle's Blessing
1 Dispel
2 Gush
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Mutagenic Growth
4 Temur Battle Rage
9 Island
5 Mountain
3 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Dispel
1 Treasure Cruise
2 Electrickery
2 Flame Slash
1 Flaring Pain
3 Hydroblast
1 Piracy Charm
4 Pyroblast
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Currently Playing:
Modern Grixis Shadow, Storm
Legacy: Grixis Delver, Sneak and Show
Duel Commander: Kess High Tide
Vintage Big blue(MTGO)
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Double Strike is usually enough to prevent your creature from dying by the way, assuming you are attacking with a 7/2, you opponent would need at least 2 Spire Golem to kill it, and then you could play one more instant.
Maybe going back from Artful Dodge to Shadow Rift would make sense in such a build because of instant speed and because you don't need as much the flashback of you have TBR anyway.
Gitaxian Probe is hundred times better than Manamorphose for this deck but it's still not completely bad, if it was U/R instead of G/R it would be easier too since it could fix our mana a little bit better but now it just fixes one color.
We know with ~18 lands how bad with need blue in our opener play all the cantrips.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I have been playing this deck for a couple of months now and doing pretty well (though I only play paper) in my local shop, consistently placing in 2nd in our local tournaments, however I am finding it nearly impossible to beat MBC even on game 1 (Crypt Rats, Geth's verdict) and especially after sideboard, (Mind Wrench, Hymn to Tourach, Chainer's Edict the flashback is the worst!). The other decks I have a hard time with are UR Delver, Boroskitty, and MU Delver, and sometimes affinity but these matchups are still doable after my sideboard (but its hard to sideboard for all of them - and because of where I live I dont have easy access to a lot of cards)
Heres my decklist
4x Swiftwater Cliffs
8x Island
6x Mountain
Creatures 12
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Kiln Fiend
4x Nivix Cyclops
Sorcery 20
4x Preordain
4x Ponder
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Assault Strobe
4x Distortion Strike
4x Manamorphose
2x Spell Pierce
2x Apostle's Blessing
2x Lightning Bolt
4x Dispel
2x Spell Pierce
4x Electrickery
2x Lightning Bolt
1x Apostle's Blessing
2x Mulldrifter
As you can see I run Manamorphose instead of Gush/Treasure Cruise (I dont have Gush and its hard to find here), and have been experimenting with cutting down on the Lightning Bolts in favor of more pumps/creature protection. I am also running Distortion Strike for the same reason (cant find Shadow Rift or Artfull dodge here) but I would like to change 2 out for maybe 2x Shadow Rift - the one thing I kind like about Distortion Strike though is that I can play it the turn before on my flipped delver (the same turn I play a Nivix or Kiln Fiend) and have it come back for free next turn.
As far as sideboard goes, I have ordered some Gorilla Shaman and Pyroblast/Hydroblast but it takes 2 months to get here - but I am open to suggestions/ help figuring out what I can do to make this deck better
Dispel helps some, but it's a bad matchup. You can try Negate too.
Hymn hasn't been printed at common rarity online.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Mogg War Marshal seems like the best bet when fighting MBC. You'll just have to eat the Hymn, though. There isn't much to do about that. You can try using Brainstorm and then putting cards you definitely want to keep back on top of your library. With a fetches build, you could definitely incorporate that easily. You can trump Wrench Mind by using a few Artifact Lands. People won't typically board in Artifact hate against you (it would be a huge mistake, anyways), so it's a pretty safe thing to do.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
It does sound like they're mixing legalities, because Chainer's Edict has only been common in Vintage Masters, while Hymn to Tourach was only common in Fallen Empires - the former counts for online legality, the latter for paper. But paper pauper is always kind of a guessing game as to what people are going to claim is legal.
They haven't hit the dailies for a while, but they had a good run for a couple of months a year or so ago. They win by grinding for incremental value, so Treasure Cruise really crushes them. If you're susceptible to being controlled by one-mana red spells, though, you could have serious trouble.
Thanks for the advice. Stormbound Geist seems like a home run because it has a nice body plus evasion, and generally my games vs MBC run long - making him better than Mogg War Marshal in the late game (its just too easy for them to kill those tokens with Crypt Rats
In my last game against MBC I actually tried sideboarding in 4x mutagenic growths, but the problem was still with the Crypt Rats because he doesnt have to even tap them to use them - and late game getting an extra couple of mana to kill my Kiln Fiend or Delver is not hard. "I pay 2 mana to deal 2 damage to all creatures - ok I play mutagenic growth - ok in response I pay 2 more mana (because its all on the stack still and nothing has died yet)" which really sucks because now I lost 6 life and a kiln fiend/flipped delver of secrets
Is there anything like lignify available in red or blue or artifact (or phyrexian/aternative mana costs) for pauper?
Outwit seems like a good sideboard choice - though it would leave me with very little room to sideboard for anyone else Still I am going to try it and let yall know
Yeah our store allows anything that was printed at common level in either foramt (paper/online), which allows for a lot of breathing room when building a deck
My problem with Boros is usually 3 things: the first is journey to nowhere, then after sideboard it gets worse with circle of protection: red, and the third is 1 red mana spells like pyroblast, and red elemental blast (which destroy any of my creatures at any point in the game!).
Treasure Cruise seems like it could help, but doesnt really feel like a game changer. The only times I have won vs Boros is when I flip a delver turn 2 and am able to buff him (instead of the cyclops or fiend), and hit direclty with a couple of lightning bolts. The other route I have been thinking about is attacking their card draw mechanism via Gorilla Shaman but Im not sure how effective that would be.
How successful have you guys been vs Delverblue and/or UR Delver? How about vs Affinity?
Geth's Verdict and Chainer's Edict are the real problems, and that's why Mogg War Marshal is a lot better than Stormbound Geist. It also offers 3 chump blockers for 2+2 mana against aura hexproof, infect or other really fast matchup.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Again, the problem with Crypt Rats is that if he has open mana, he can just activate the ability a second time and add it to the stack "Tap 2, Crypt Rats does 2 damage and kills your Kiln Fiend" "Ok in response I pay 2 life and 1 mana and play Apostle's Blessing" "Ok while Apostle's blessing is still on the stack I tap 2 more mana and deal 2 damage to Kiln Fiend" and hes dead Seem's like my only strategy is removal
Mogg War Marshal seems like a good card - but those 1/1s are just too easy to kill off quickly - I may try testing out 2x Mogg and 2x Stormbound
But I'm playing Reckless Charge in my build so I can go all in in one turn if I need to (with protection and kill spell for whatever is on the battlefield). But that's plan B, winning on turn 5-6.
MBC isn't really played anymore because of Treasure Cruise anyway.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Having the same issues. My buddy is running a UR Control/Midrange and I'm running this and having issues getting anything on the board.
Yeah I feel you, this deck is supposed to win on turn 4 (sometimes on turn 3!) but against MBC its just not that easy - especially after sideboard when you have taken pumps/cantrips out to put more counter magic in. The problem isnt just 1 card, its the whole deck - youve already wasted counter magic and apostles blessing on geths verdict chandlers edict and wrench mind and then turn 4 or 5 you have to deal with crypt rats.
Also not sure why youre saying that no one plays MBC because of treasure cruise - there are still plenty of people playing MBC and owning against Eye Candy
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I don't remember the exact list, but it had some tricky cards. Temur Battle Rage, Gush
Does anyone have any experience against esper?
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Gush is why Evolving Wilds is favored.
EDIT:
It shouldn't be easy to counter Temur Battle Rage, if he's playing appropriately around your counters, probably with counters of his own.