One suspects they will ban Dig through Time and call it a day as far as Inverter goes. Players will probably try Treasure Cruise in its place. Next month, maybe Treasure Cruise will get the hammer.
Hopefully they do ban Dig but I don't think that will be enough to bring down play of the combo enough. Killing Thassa's Oracle would pretty much insure the deck dies or at least is relegated to fringe territory. I would be okay with that. It gets boring getting beat game one on turn 5 pretty much every time I face the deck. It is making me play less.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
So 3 out of the top 4 (including the top 2) and 7 of the top 15 on Inverter.
Yeah healthy.
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
This one probably won't go over well, but something needs to be axed from Bant Spirits. Its too fast, too strong and too consistent. I think Spell Queller could use the axe or maybe even Supreme Phantom. Phantom is just too much over curve versus other "lords" in other colors. If Path and Bolt were in the format I would be okay but the lame removal available outside of black makes Phantom a bit too strong in my book.
So I'd like to see Dig Through Time and Phantom or Queller for sure. Top 2 decks in the format need a bit of nerfing to level out the field.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
DTT needed a ban and still does. Dumb non-move WotC.
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
It's interesting to hear that Inverter's win precentage is below 50%, but even then, that is because people know they will play against it and prepare their sideboards for it. It's warping the meta around it, basically. I hope the meta continues to evolve after this. Maybe Ikoria will be as impactful as THB was.
Pioneer needs something done. Format is growing stale at the top. I might even be for a Veil of Summer unban. Of course they will do nothing during this period of time. I may quit online for a while as I don't predict Ikoria shaking things up. Combo Winter has become Combo Spring now.
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():
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I think that dtt getting banned is probably inevitable. It and treasure cruise are so good, they provide so much card advantage/selection
I'm still enjoying the format but I've heard people getting sick of the format because of the combo at the top. I personally don't mind it myself but I understand their problems
I think that dtt getting banned is probably inevitable. It and treasure cruise are so good, they provide so much card advantage/selection
I'm still enjoying the format but I've heard people getting sick of the format because of the combo at the top. I personally don't mind it myself but I understand their problems
I think a Dig Through Time ban is on the horizon, as well. In my area, most people I've heard of choosing not to play Pioneer has been in response to deck prices, which they expected to be far below modern, but the prices are similar. The problem is, they are trying to buy into decks like InverterCombo after it has already hit its stride—obviously by then all the key elements have spiked. It's the same complaint people made in Modern when Hollow One got popular—Goblin Lore became outrageously expensive. It happens, you either need to speculate on cards, keep your collection and not sell out after every rotation, or play a different deck. Also, some of them don't have the relevant lands for a deck like that, so again another cost hurdle. I have suggested much cheaper decks like monoblack aggro, but ehh, people want to play the decks everyone is talking about. Truth is, lands are an investment every tournament-seeking player should already have anyway, because any land worth its weight is going to be relevant in numerous formats.
In my area, most people I've heard of choosing not to play Pioneer has been in response to deck prices, which they expected to be far below modern, but the prices are similar.
Pay to Play will smother this format just like it has Modern. Without yearly regular reprints of high priced staples prices will go nowhere but up and playership will go nowhere than down. I had high hopes for this format but as every day passes it is just turning into Modern 2.0 Without regular bans of top tier cards on a monthly basis the format is becoming "solved" and to me that equals stale, predictable and more expensive. I loved the weekly bannings, would love to go back to that to keep players on their toes.
PS: Monoblack Aggro is sitting at $373 in paper as of this moment. Not really a lot cheaper than most of the tier decks out there.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
In my area, most people I've heard of choosing not to play Pioneer has been in response to deck prices, which they expected to be far below modern, but the prices are similar.
Pay to Play will smother this format just like it has Modern. Without yearly regular reprints of high priced staples prices will go nowhere but up and playership will go nowhere than down. I had high hopes for this format but as every day passes it is just turning into Modern 2.0 Without regular bans of top tier cards on a monthly basis the format is becoming "solved" and to me that equals stale, predictable and more expensive. I loved the weekly bannings, would love to go back to that to keep players on their toes.
PS: Monoblack Aggro is sitting at $373 in paper as of this moment. Not really a lot cheaper than most of the tier decks out there.
The problem is that regular bannings of top tier cards can kill a format just as easily. People aren't going to invest in anything if there is a high likelihood that their cards will tank in value once they have continual strong showings. So you ban out Inverter & Breach decks. Then people shift to deck X. Then deck X gets banned out. Player confidence in their cards becomes less and less, until they no longer choose to play anything and go elsewhere. You can't just ban everything. Bans have to be meaningful, targeted, and used sparingly when problems arise. Ban a highly problematic card for format balance, not on card value or play percentage. It's a balancing act and requires care and precision, not lobbing grenades into the card pool every week.
I feel that a lot of people in my area were scared away from how many early bannings there were in the format, even if they were necessary. Some players just wanted to buy into the best deck then keep playing it without having to always switch decks. Others just were too afraid to invest when anything could change on a week to week basis
That will lead down the exact path of Modern. And you know how that is right now. Then Pioneer 2.0 will pop up, then Pioneer 3.0, repeat Ad Nauseam.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
In my area, most people I've heard of choosing not to play Pioneer has been in response to deck prices, which they expected to be far below modern, but the prices are similar.
Pay to Play will smother this format just like it has Modern. Without yearly regular reprints of high priced staples prices will go nowhere but up and playership will go nowhere than down. I had high hopes for this format but as every day passes it is just turning into Modern 2.0 Without regular bans of top tier cards on a monthly basis the format is becoming "solved" and to me that equals stale, predictable and more expensive. I loved the weekly bannings, would love to go back to that to keep players on their toes.
PS: Monoblack Aggro is sitting at $373 in paper as of this moment. Not really a lot cheaper than most of the tier decks out there.
The problem is that regular bannings of top tier cards can kill a format just as easily. People aren't going to invest in anything if there is a high likelihood that their cards will tank in value once they have continual strong showings. So you ban out Inverter & Breach decks. Then people shift to deck X. Then deck X gets banned out. Player confidence in their cards becomes less and less, until they no longer choose to play anything and go elsewhere. You can't just ban everything. Bans have to be meaningful, targeted, and used sparingly when problems arise. Ban a highly problematic card for format balance, not on card value or play percentage. It's a balancing act and requires care and precision, not lobbing grenades into the card pool every week.
Yep bannings should not be frivioulous, and the decision making needs to be better than "top deck" because there will always be a top deck.
Time should be given for new archtypes to arise. New cards could be printed to aid in more archtypes being formed.
Will this lead to another modern? Always. But i guess the important thing is to decide what is the role of pioneer. To me it seems modern was meant as a "next stop" for rotating standard players. And it has given 10 years before its powerlevel is deemed too high or resources have become too scarce/expensive. My guess is pioneer will now take on what modern was and will last another 10 years or so... assuming its not dead in the water from the early bans.
As to what to do with modern? I think it will stick around... it is at the very least an eternal format with no reserve list issues. And having multiple eternal formats (as in modern like) might not be a bad thing if they have their own format defining quirks, and it might be a way to keep value and yet allow players to build a collection.
I have quit playing MTGO. Haven't played in over a week. Format is too much of a mess with no prospect of cleaning it up. Enjoying playing in paper when I can though. I would be shocked to see any bans this Spring or even Summer. Looks like MTGO won't be getting any of my money.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
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Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
So 3 out of the top 4 (including the top 2) and 7 of the top 15 on Inverter.
Yeah healthy.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'd be fine with the combo being around, dig just makes it so good by delving away a lot of the grave
So I'd like to see Dig Through Time and Phantom or Queller for sure. Top 2 decks in the format need a bit of nerfing to level out the field.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Inverter is a real problem currently, so bans are in order there, but Possibility Storm is barely played.
DTT needed a ban and still does. Dumb non-move WotC.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'm still enjoying the format but I've heard people getting sick of the format because of the combo at the top. I personally don't mind it myself but I understand their problems
I think a Dig Through Time ban is on the horizon, as well. In my area, most people I've heard of choosing not to play Pioneer has been in response to deck prices, which they expected to be far below modern, but the prices are similar. The problem is, they are trying to buy into decks like Inverter Combo after it has already hit its stride—obviously by then all the key elements have spiked. It's the same complaint people made in Modern when Hollow One got popular—Goblin Lore became outrageously expensive. It happens, you either need to speculate on cards, keep your collection and not sell out after every rotation, or play a different deck. Also, some of them don't have the relevant lands for a deck like that, so again another cost hurdle. I have suggested much cheaper decks like monoblack aggro, but ehh, people want to play the decks everyone is talking about. Truth is, lands are an investment every tournament-seeking player should already have anyway, because any land worth its weight is going to be relevant in numerous formats.
Pay to Play will smother this format just like it has Modern. Without yearly regular reprints of high priced staples prices will go nowhere but up and playership will go nowhere than down. I had high hopes for this format but as every day passes it is just turning into Modern 2.0 Without regular bans of top tier cards on a monthly basis the format is becoming "solved" and to me that equals stale, predictable and more expensive. I loved the weekly bannings, would love to go back to that to keep players on their toes.
PS: Monoblack Aggro is sitting at $373 in paper as of this moment. Not really a lot cheaper than most of the tier decks out there.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
The problem is that regular bannings of top tier cards can kill a format just as easily. People aren't going to invest in anything if there is a high likelihood that their cards will tank in value once they have continual strong showings. So you ban out Inverter & Breach decks. Then people shift to deck X. Then deck X gets banned out. Player confidence in their cards becomes less and less, until they no longer choose to play anything and go elsewhere. You can't just ban everything. Bans have to be meaningful, targeted, and used sparingly when problems arise. Ban a highly problematic card for format balance, not on card value or play percentage. It's a balancing act and requires care and precision, not lobbing grenades into the card pool every week.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Yep bannings should not be frivioulous, and the decision making needs to be better than "top deck" because there will always be a top deck.
Time should be given for new archtypes to arise. New cards could be printed to aid in more archtypes being formed.
Will this lead to another modern? Always. But i guess the important thing is to decide what is the role of pioneer. To me it seems modern was meant as a "next stop" for rotating standard players. And it has given 10 years before its powerlevel is deemed too high or resources have become too scarce/expensive. My guess is pioneer will now take on what modern was and will last another 10 years or so... assuming its not dead in the water from the early bans.
As to what to do with modern? I think it will stick around... it is at the very least an eternal format with no reserve list issues. And having multiple eternal formats (as in modern like) might not be a bad thing if they have their own format defining quirks, and it might be a way to keep value and yet allow players to build a collection.
Reality is but a perception of your being --
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881
Oooh Dicey:
[dice=1]100[/dice]
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."