I found the dreadhorde invasion and lovestruck beast interesting. There are some synergies with dreadhorde invasion but it is in the sideboard. What match up is this for? The lovestruck beast is a good beater when you need a quick clock but the deck has hardly any 1/1s so it would be easy to turn off. Any thoughts?
Any reasons why you don't play Collective Brutality? For a fast clock isn't Questing Beast or Tireless Tracker just better than Lovestruck Beast? Like you said it can be disrupted pretty easy.
Maybe Voracious Hydra can be good. I want to try it as a one of maindeck
That 5-0 isn’t my list. I usually play collective brutality Although I’m trying a list similar to the 5-0. Mine plays one questing beast mb and 1-2 sb. I didn’t really understand the love struck beast choice. Thought maybe I missed something.
That 5-0 isn’t my list. I usually play collective brutality Although I’m trying a list similar to the 5-0. Mine plays one questing beast mb and 1-2 sb. I didn’t really understand the love struck beast choice. Thought maybe I missed something.
Oh yeah i missread that. I don't see any reason for Lovestruck Beast.
Today i can do some more playtesting. I swaped out 4 mana vraska for a Ob Nixilis Reignited cause i think it's a way better late game engine
Just (potentially) getting into pioneer, and I like this deck because it is the complete opposite of what I do in modern. New play experiences are cool.
I have a list, but I'm still not familiar enough with the format to know what's good and what isn't.
I have recently built an independent version of this deck to bring out to a weekly paper tournament. Here in Saskatchewan we have been fairly lucky in that the pandemic never got too severe (more due to lower population density than anything else, I would guess), and some local stores are cautiously returning to in-person events on a limited scale.
In any event, my experience with the format is negligible (two actual FNMs from quite a while ago, plus casual exposure from assorted online articles), so if anyone had suggestions on the following list I would be grateful. My take is based on three major philosophies: 1) - remaining completely spell-based to blank removal, and to minimize nightmare scenarios where Spell Mastery becomes awkward to achieve through pressure, 2) - deliberately optimizing mana and cost requirements with painless untapped sources wherever possible (and specifically remaining base-black until the lategame by avoiding GG costs before 6 CMC), 3) - maximizing the Vintage-restricted mode of Dark Petition as much as possible due to points #1 and #2, largely by selecting the 3-drops to synergize best with it and by gaining access to the sideboard with Mastermind's Acquisition.
The first two are a split that is essentially forced by the relative strength of the maindeck against creatures. The next two are interaction with non-creature, non-planeswalker permanents. After these Golgari Charm has always impressed me in contol decks across multiple formats, and The Elderspell is the type of card that is sometimes necessary against Superfriends strategies. Next up are five spells that can be cast off of a Dark Ritual effect, beginning with two different answers to Uro or Omnath, with different strengths and weaknesses against various combo decks. Two situational sweepers follow these to supplement the maindeck Reckoning, the first excellent against Mono-Black Aggro and the second much better against Spirits. Finally, I am hoping the Ashiok will be a good answer to the "Oops - All Spells" deck running around. Moving up the curve, I included one more alternative exile-based sweeper to supplement the relatively thin four-drops of the maindeck, and the same logic aplies to the only "early" GG spell which acts as a versatile piece of interaction that can be prioritized in post-board mana development while providing a serious threat to opposing control manabases. The extra copy of the deck's namesake spell is in the sideboard to play around Niv to Light's maindeck Slaughter Games in combination with Acquisition, and last but not least Ugin's global reset button with upside needs little explanation.
Testing so far has made me very happy with the cycling spells in particular, in addition to the variety of options present on average for the first big refill, mostly rendered possible with value-added Escalation of Collective Brutality. A couple of points of concern are whether more significant lifegain is required (Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet has always been the default here), and whether an alternative win condition is necessary for the maindeck (Ob Nixilis Reignited might be the only viable option given my preferences, though the weak board presence of Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage could possibly fit extremely well with the endgame I am trying to set up).
There is only so much that goldfishing a dynamic control deck can do, though, and I generally anticipate losing badly for the first few weeks until I get a handle on the major points of interaction for the format. On the other hand the shell is very strong in the abstract, and the decision trees will certainly be engaging enough that I am committing to it for the next month or so.
I welcome any thoughts on these matters, or indeed any related issues!
-Stéphane Gérard
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I see, that's true. I will put one or two copies of ooze in the SB at least
Most of the time i can't afford sacrifice anything to Vraska. That's why i thinking about cutting her. Ticking up Planeswalker for no value feels bad
Any reasons why you don't play Collective Brutality? For a fast clock isn't Questing Beast or Tireless Tracker just better than Lovestruck Beast? Like you said it can be disrupted pretty easy.
Maybe Voracious Hydra can be good. I want to try it as a one of maindeck
In other news. The bans today were good for this deck. Once upon a time,smuggler’s copter, field of the dead. these band will hopefully slow the format.
Oh yeah i missread that. I don't see any reason for Lovestruck Beast.
Today i can do some more playtesting. I swaped out 4 mana vraska for a Ob Nixilis Reignited cause i think it's a way better late game engine
1 Vraska the Unseen
2 Vraska, Golgari Queen
1 Vraska, Relic Seeker
1 Korvold, Fae-Cursed King
2 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Dark Petition
1 Harmless Offering
1 Languish
1 Painful Truths
1 Seasons Past
4 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Assassin's Trophy
3 Fatal Push
1 Hero's Downfall
4 Demonic Pact
4 Blood Crypt
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Fabled Passage
3 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Woodland Cemetery
sideboard
Just (potentially) getting into pioneer, and I like this deck because it is the complete opposite of what I do in modern. New play experiences are cool.
I have a list, but I'm still not familiar enough with the format to know what's good and what isn't.
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Murderous Rider
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Walking Ballista
1 World Breaker
4 Thoughtseize
3 Fatal Push
1 Sign in Blood
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Assassin's Trophy
1 Read the Bones
1 Vraska's Contempt
2 Languish
3 Dark Petition
1 Seasons Past
1 Vraska, Relic Seeker
3 Fabled Passage
3 Blooming Marsh
2 Temple of Malady
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Hissing Quagmire
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Castle Locthwain
2 Field of Ruin
1 Blast Zone
4 Forest
5 Swamp
2 Lovestruck Beast
3 Shifting Ceratops
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Broken Bond
1 The Elderspell
1 Golgari Charm
1 Crypt Incursion
2 Ashiok, Dream Render
1 Casualties of War
I have recently built an independent version of this deck to bring out to a weekly paper tournament. Here in Saskatchewan we have been fairly lucky in that the pandemic never got too severe (more due to lower population density than anything else, I would guess), and some local stores are cautiously returning to in-person events on a limited scale.
In any event, my experience with the format is negligible (two actual FNMs from quite a while ago, plus casual exposure from assorted online articles), so if anyone had suggestions on the following list I would be grateful. My take is based on three major philosophies: 1) - remaining completely spell-based to blank removal, and to minimize nightmare scenarios where Spell Mastery becomes awkward to achieve through pressure, 2) - deliberately optimizing mana and cost requirements with painless untapped sources wherever possible (and specifically remaining base-black until the lategame by avoiding GG costs before 6 CMC), 3) - maximizing the Vintage-restricted mode of Dark Petition as much as possible due to points #1 and #2, largely by selecting the 3-drops to synergize best with it and by gaining access to the sideboard with Mastermind's Acquisition.
Here is my list at the moment, then:
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Field of Ruin
2 Forest
1 Blast Zone
3 Fatal Push
1 Duress
1 Scarab Feast
4 Collective Brutality
1 Easy Prey
1 Eliminate
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Assassin's Trophy
1 Bile Blight
1 Heartless Act
1 Transgress the Mind
1 Doomfall
1 Prying Questions
1 Putrefy
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
4 Migration Path
1 Vraska's Contempt
1 Mastermind's Acquisition
3 Dark Petition
1 Seasons Past
1 Casualties of War
1 Scour from Existence
The sideboard would then be the following :
The first two are a split that is essentially forced by the relative strength of the maindeck against creatures. The next two are interaction with non-creature, non-planeswalker permanents. After these Golgari Charm has always impressed me in contol decks across multiple formats, and The Elderspell is the type of card that is sometimes necessary against Superfriends strategies. Next up are five spells that can be cast off of a Dark Ritual effect, beginning with two different answers to Uro or Omnath, with different strengths and weaknesses against various combo decks. Two situational sweepers follow these to supplement the maindeck Reckoning, the first excellent against Mono-Black Aggro and the second much better against Spirits. Finally, I am hoping the Ashiok will be a good answer to the "Oops - All Spells" deck running around. Moving up the curve, I included one more alternative exile-based sweeper to supplement the relatively thin four-drops of the maindeck, and the same logic aplies to the only "early" GG spell which acts as a versatile piece of interaction that can be prioritized in post-board mana development while providing a serious threat to opposing control manabases. The extra copy of the deck's namesake spell is in the sideboard to play around Niv to Light's maindeck Slaughter Games in combination with Acquisition, and last but not least Ugin's global reset button with upside needs little explanation.
Testing so far has made me very happy with the cycling spells in particular, in addition to the variety of options present on average for the first big refill, mostly rendered possible with value-added Escalation of Collective Brutality. A couple of points of concern are whether more significant lifegain is required (Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet has always been the default here), and whether an alternative win condition is necessary for the maindeck (Ob Nixilis Reignited might be the only viable option given my preferences, though the weak board presence of Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage could possibly fit extremely well with the endgame I am trying to set up).
There is only so much that goldfishing a dynamic control deck can do, though, and I generally anticipate losing badly for the first few weeks until I get a handle on the major points of interaction for the format. On the other hand the shell is very strong in the abstract, and the decision trees will certainly be engaging enough that I am committing to it for the next month or so.
I welcome any thoughts on these matters, or indeed any related issues!
-Stéphane Gérard