The goal of the deck is to drop low casting cost, high toughness creatures that then turn into huge threats after dropping an Assault Formation or Huatli, the Sun's Heart. Lifegain from a -2 activation off of Huatli with Charix, the Raging Isle or even from the 5 and 6 toughness creatures with a Dive Downor Tower Defense cast on them can pad your life total for a couple possible turns versus certain decks. A fast start of Aegis Turtle turn one into Assault Formation turn two can lead to an attack of 5 damage. Turn 4 wins are possible against a few decks. Charix has a targeting tax built in. Surge Mare can sneak by all those pesky green creatures in the format. Lastly Access Tunnel can give you the evasion needed to squeeze through that last bit or even 17 to 22 damage if Dive Down or Tower Defense are used. Sideboard is a work in progress right now. But Charix is a fun new toy for this archetype.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
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If it were me I'd take out tide drifter and maybe Paswall adept for phase dolphin. Tide drifter only seems to synergize with itself in this deck.
It is one of the weaker cards in the deck for sure. The allure is basically a 5/5 for 2 cmc. Phase Dolphin gives the upside of a second unblockable creature but at 3 cmc for effectively a 4/4 it isn't jumping the curve as an attacking 4/4 on turn 4. Drifter can basically be an attacking 5/5 on turn 3, and that's above the curve for creatures at that point. I have been trying Merfolk Secretkeeper as a 2 of in that slot. T1 Secretkeeper, T2 Assault Formation swing in as a 4/4 is decent. Blue and Green don't offer a lot of variety in the way of high toughness at 1 or 2 cmc so options are limited. I may try Phase Dolphin out to see what happens, thanks for your thoughts.
I need to put Dragon's Eye Savants into the Maybeboard. It is one toughness higher than Tide Drifter at 6 vs. 5. One last note on Drifter. It is colorless and Ugin is definitely a thing in Pioneer. Maybe it would be better in the sideboard as a 2,3 or 4 of.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I hadn't considered colorless mattering for ugin because I haven't played many matches and seen the meta. Other than being legendary tetsuko actually seems far better than phase dolphin and passwall adept because it gives the whole team unblockable and it costs 1 less mana for the same toughness and it doesn't need a toughness=damage effect to start chipping away the opponents life.
I hadn't considered colorless mattering for ugin because I haven't played many matches and seen the meta. Other than being legendary tetsuko actually seems far better than phase dolphin and passwall adept because it gives the whole team unblockable and it costs 1 less mana for the same toughness and it doesn't need a toughness=damage effect to start chipping away the opponents life.
Yep I am running 4 Tetsuko right now as we converse.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Current mainboard is now reflected in the original decklist above. Sideboard is still a work in progress.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I have also been fiddling around with a UW version I call Fat Azzorius. Entirely similar to the Simic version with a couple of changes and it opens up white for the sideboard for greater options post mainboard.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I have also been fiddling around with a UW version I call Fat Azzorius. Entirely similar to the Simic version with a couple of changes and it opens up white for the sideboard for greater options post mainboard.
Its not as good as the Simic version game one, but with the right W sideboard cards game 2/3 it could be better possibly.
I think the lack of 2 toughness=power cards hurts the deck pre-boarding. As far as what to do for the sideboard I might swap out graffdigger's cage for soul guide lantern because lantern gets rid of cards which is relevant against delve or effects like undergrowth that are more powerful the more cards in yard. I'm assuming damping sphere is for storm or Nissa who shakes the world. Field of ruin seems like a good answer to field of the dead. I might consider leyline of sanctity to protect against burn and thoughtsize but because this isn't a combo deck thoughtsieze doesn't hurt as much but thoughtsieze the toughness=power card seems rough.
Right now I am running into a bunch of UR Arclight Phoenix decks and a lot of Prized Amalgam decks and GC really shuts those down if they don't have an answer. It may be wise to do a 2/2 split of GC and Soul-Guide Lantern and drop the Damping Spheres or Aetherizes. SB is very meta dependent for sure.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Aetherize seems like possibly the weakest card as it is only good against aggro decks and most of the time this deck seems like it would outpace other aggro builds
Aetherize seems like possibly the weakest card as it is only good against aggro decks and most of the time this deck seems like it would outpace other aggro builds
It is but I match up against a fair amount of go wide decks in my playgroup. Again its all meta dependent. In the UW version those slots become Settle the Wreckage a far superior sideboard card.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Aetherize seems like possibly the weakest card as it is only good against aggro decks and most of the time this deck seems like it would outpace other aggro builds
It is but I match up against a fair amount of go wide decks in my playgroup. Again its all meta dependent. In the UW version those slots become Settle the Wreckage a far superior sideboard card.
You could try going bant and getting both the better sideboard games 2/3 and a stronger maindeck for game 1
I'd imagine the maindeck would look something like this
That's an interesting thought for sure. There are some other Bant lists out there. I'm not a big fan of 3 color decks in Pioneer but that shouldn't stop anyone from trying it.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
That's an interesting thought for sure. There are some other Bant lists out there. I'm not a big fan of 3 color decks in Pioneer but that shouldn't stop anyone from trying it.
That's an interesting thought for sure. There are some other Bant lists out there. I'm not a big fan of 3 color decks in Pioneer but that shouldn't stop anyone from trying it.
Why not?
Less consistent mana base. 3 color is harder to pull off and harder to consistently have the right mana available. Again shouldn't stop anyone from trying it, probably won't be me at this point.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
That's an interesting thought for sure. There are some other Bant lists out there. I'm not a big fan of 3 color decks in Pioneer but that shouldn't stop anyone from trying it.
Why not?
Less consistent mana base. 3 color is harder to pull off and harder to consistently have the right mana available. Again shouldn't stop anyone from trying it, probably won't be me at this point.
The manabases seem pretty consistent to me but it does feel really bad when you don't have the right colors
That's an interesting thought for sure. There are some other Bant lists out there. I'm not a big fan of 3 color decks in Pioneer but that shouldn't stop anyone from trying it.
Why not?
Less consistent mana base. 3 color is harder to pull off and harder to consistently have the right mana available. Again shouldn't stop anyone from trying it, probably won't be me at this point.
The manabases seem pretty consistent to me but it does feel really bad when you don't have the right colors
You pretty much described inconsistency of manabase.
3 color will always be less consistent than 2 color which is less consistent than monocolor. Personal preference, I prefer a more consistent manabase. No real 2 color fetchlands in the format now, it will change if they do.
PS: Also swapped in 3 Back to Nature even though it hits AF because I have been running into the GW Enchantments deck a lot recently. Without it that matchup may be unwinable. Damping Sphere is out for now. 2 different Spiders with reach in versus a lot of blue heavy decks I am seeing as well.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
You could try adding more arboreal grazer against flyers and for a bit of ramp rather than spiders. Btw what spider did you add arista?
I could for sure. I have such a love/hate relationship with Grazer in this deck. I love it in the opening hand, I hate it anywhere else. I wish I could run 8 Aegis Turtle. I am actually thinking of droping the 2 Grazers for 2 Merfolk Secretkeeper. It would prevent the possible turn 2 Huatli though. Right now there are 2 Sporecap Spider in the side. Again very meta dependent on that choice. If you come up with a Bant List post it up.
The tinkerer/brewer in me wants to fiddle around with 2 copies of Permeating Mass in the Grazer slot as a sort of pseudo-unblockable effect. Wish it had Flash as well. I think that may be stretching things though.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
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The goal of the deck is to drop low casting cost, high toughness creatures that then turn into huge threats after dropping an Assault Formation or Huatli, the Sun's Heart. Lifegain from a -2 activation off of Huatli with Charix, the Raging Isle or even from the 5 and 6 toughness creatures with a Dive Downor Tower Defense cast on them can pad your life total for a couple possible turns versus certain decks. A fast start of Aegis Turtle turn one into Assault Formation turn two can lead to an attack of 5 damage. Turn 4 wins are possible against a few decks. Charix has a targeting tax built in. Surge Mare can sneak by all those pesky green creatures in the format. Lastly Access Tunnel can give you the evasion needed to squeeze through that last bit or even 17 to 22 damage if Dive Down or Tower Defense are used. Sideboard is a work in progress right now. But Charix is a fun new toy for this archetype.
Currently running the following...
4 Aegis Turtle
4 Surge Mare
4 Dragon's Eye Savants
4 Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
4 Charix, the Raging Isle
4 Huatli, the Sun's Heart
4 Tower Defense
4 Dive Down
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Yavimaya Coast
4 Access Tunnel
3 Island
3 Forest
SIDEBOARD (currently)
Maybeboard odd-balls:
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
It is one of the weaker cards in the deck for sure. The allure is basically a 5/5 for 2 cmc. Phase Dolphin gives the upside of a second unblockable creature but at 3 cmc for effectively a 4/4 it isn't jumping the curve as an attacking 4/4 on turn 4. Drifter can basically be an attacking 5/5 on turn 3, and that's above the curve for creatures at that point. I have been trying Merfolk Secretkeeper as a 2 of in that slot. T1 Secretkeeper, T2 Assault Formation swing in as a 4/4 is decent. Blue and Green don't offer a lot of variety in the way of high toughness at 1 or 2 cmc so options are limited. I may try Phase Dolphin out to see what happens, thanks for your thoughts.
I need to put Dragon's Eye Savants into the Maybeboard. It is one toughness higher than Tide Drifter at 6 vs. 5. One last note on Drifter. It is colorless and Ugin is definitely a thing in Pioneer. Maybe it would be better in the sideboard as a 2,3 or 4 of.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Yep I am running 4 Tetsuko right now as we converse.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Current mainboard is now reflected in the original decklist above. Sideboard is still a work in progress.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
4 God-Pharaoh's Faithful
4 Dragon's Eye Savants
4 Surge Mare
4 Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
4 Charix, the Raging Isle
4 Dive Down
4 High Alert
4 Huatli, the Sun's Heart
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Port Town
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Access Tunnel
4 Island
2 Plains
Its not as good as the Simic version game one, but with the right W sideboard cards game 2/3 it could be better possibly.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I think the lack of 2 toughness=power cards hurts the deck pre-boarding. As far as what to do for the sideboard I might swap out graffdigger's cage for soul guide lantern because lantern gets rid of cards which is relevant against delve or effects like undergrowth that are more powerful the more cards in yard. I'm assuming damping sphere is for storm or Nissa who shakes the world. Field of ruin seems like a good answer to field of the dead. I might consider leyline of sanctity to protect against burn and thoughtsize but because this isn't a combo deck thoughtsieze doesn't hurt as much but thoughtsieze the toughness=power card seems rough.
Field of Ruin is in there for the Lotus FieldThespian's Stage combo decks.
Teferi and UW Control are a real problem, that's what the Unsubstantiates are for
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
It is but I match up against a fair amount of go wide decks in my playgroup. Again its all meta dependent. In the UW version those slots become Settle the Wreckage a far superior sideboard card.
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Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
You could try going bant and getting both the better sideboard games 2/3 and a stronger maindeck for game 1
I'd imagine the maindeck would look something like this
4x Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive (dom)
3x Dive Down (xln)
4x Glacial Fortress (xln)
3x Sunpetal Grove (xln)
4x Temple Garden (grn)
4x Hallowed Fountain (rna)
4x Breeding Pool (rna)
4x Tower Defense (rna)
2x Arboreal Grazer (war)
4x Dragon's Eye Savants (mb1)
4x God-Pharaoh's Faithful (mb1)
4x Huatli, the Sun's Heart (war)
4x Assault Formation (jmp)
4x Aegis Turtle (jmp)
4x Charix, the Raging Isle (znr)
And the side board could be something like this
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Why not?
Less consistent mana base. 3 color is harder to pull off and harder to consistently have the right mana available. Again shouldn't stop anyone from trying it, probably won't be me at this point.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
The manabases seem pretty consistent to me but it does feel really bad when you don't have the right colors
You pretty much described inconsistency of manabase.
3 color will always be less consistent than 2 color which is less consistent than monocolor. Personal preference, I prefer a more consistent manabase. No real 2 color fetchlands in the format now, it will change if they do.
PS: Also swapped in 3 Back to Nature even though it hits AF because I have been running into the GW Enchantments deck a lot recently. Without it that matchup may be unwinable. Damping Sphere is out for now. 2 different Spiders with reach in versus a lot of blue heavy decks I am seeing as well.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I could for sure. I have such a love/hate relationship with Grazer in this deck. I love it in the opening hand, I hate it anywhere else. I wish I could run 8 Aegis Turtle. I am actually thinking of droping the 2 Grazers for 2 Merfolk Secretkeeper. It would prevent the possible turn 2 Huatli though. Right now there are 2 Sporecap Spider in the side. Again very meta dependent on that choice. If you come up with a Bant List post it up.
The tinkerer/brewer in me wants to fiddle around with 2 copies of Permeating Mass in the Grazer slot as a sort of pseudo-unblockable effect. Wish it had Flash as well. I think that may be stretching things though.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."