I know, LOLZ. Anyways, the simple solution to this would be to print sets more balanced so that the power of a set isn't isolated to a single card or few cards. Then you end up with values being isolated and that's never fun for people. I like opening 10 packs and having most of them actually be worth the pack.
This is how i would make an attempt at lowering the secondary market. With more "good" cards printed in a set or more even power levels, we may see a bunch of $5-15 cards as opposed to a $60, a $30, and mostly $1-2 rares.
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Standard is pretty expensive at the moment. Go check some price graphs and deck prices. Scars duals, especially blue ones, doubled or tripled in price, Inkmoth has doubled in price, Garruk has doubled in price, Swords have doubled in price, Hero's have tripled in price, and the list continues. Every time a new deck t8's or wins an event the price of a rare/mythic in it goes up 5-10 dollars, sells out and continues.
It's Pretty hard to trade for stuff at the moment, as pretty much you have to make big trades for single cards, or constructed playable's for constructed playable's. Essentially everything is a net loss of some kind. I can definitely see the desire for more balanced sets, but still don't know if that fixes everything, especially with large sets. A better balance would definitely help though.
Standard is pretty expensive at the moment. Go check some price graphs and deck prices. Scars duals, especially blue ones, doubled or tripled in price, Inkmoth has doubled in price, Garruk has doubled in price, Swords have doubled in price, Hero's have tripled in price, and the list continues. Every time a new deck t8's or wins an event the price of a rare/mythic in it goes up 5-10 dollars, sells out and continues.
It's Pretty hard to trade for stuff at the moment, as pretty much you have to make big trades for single cards, or constructed playable's for constructed playable's. Essentially everything is a net loss of some kind. I can definitely see the desire for more balanced sets, but still don't know if that fixes everything, especially with large sets. A better balance would definitely help though.
Agreed. For anyone trying to 'buy in' to a particular deck, any scars cards are not cheap since they're not being opened any more.
If you've been around for a while, unless you're desperate to change archetype to something you have no scars for, you should have hoarded some staples. If not, learn this time around to hoard staples whilst they're being opened.
Otherwise, there's got to be a willingness to trade staples if needed and negotiate hard to try and get value. I had consecrated sphinx from cheaper days and am unlikely to play the current incarnation of blue, so he's in binder.
Thats why you shouldve invested into those cards when they were cheap and JUST as playable before the latest netdeck involving ISD came out. I got every scars dual for under 90 cents a piece, because I knew they would always be valuable and full of potential. Why others apparently can't use foresight is beyond me.
Thats why you shouldve invested into those cards when they were cheap and JUST as playable before the latest netdeck involved ISD came out. I got every scars dual for under 90 cents a piece, because I knew they would always be valuable and full of potential. Why others apparently can't use foresight is beyond me.
Because others see what people play and not what they [i]could[/c] play. Foresight is hard when it is reacting to what the pros play.
Anyway, standard is still the cheapest format overall to play. Invest small and preorder using discretion of what will be good. You may be wrong sometimes, but more often than not, you will be fine. And, as always, learn to evaluate cards yourself. Actually, scrap that, don't do it, because I want to continue taking advantage of good cards that get overlooked by forum hounds.
Thats why you shouldve invested into those cards when they were cheap and JUST as playable before the latest netdeck involving ISD came out. I got every scars dual for under 90 cents a piece, because I knew they would always be valuable and full of potential. Why others apparently can't use foresight is beyond me.
1. If you really have that much foresight you should buy all the stock of those cards that are available and make thousands.
2. Mythics rares are what make up a majority of a decks costs now and speculating on mythics tends to entail far more risk than reward. And even when you speculation is successful you are getting a $100 card for $50 or a $40 card for $10-20, not a $10-50 card for $1-2.
3. If everyone had such great speculation ability then the cards would not be undervalued in the first place.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Okay, a lot of good stuff in this thread. Also a lot of nonsense.
Let's cut to the chase on several issues.
1. WOTC isn't going to change its policy on what cards to print at what rarities unless WOTC feels a need to do so based on business, not on our *****ing about the price of cards. End of story.
2. Card prices are determined by 3 things.
a. How rare the card is
b. How good the card is
c. How much money we're willing to spend on it
Folks, of all those 3 things, (c) is the biggest problem. You can ***** all you want about the prices of cards. But we have nobody to blame for these cards GETTING those prices but ourselves.
If everybody (and I do mean EVERYBODY) said to the secondary market "I'm not paying $X for that card" they would HAVE to lower the price. But we don't do that. We see a powerful card and say to ourselves, "I just have to have that card to be competitive" and go out and buy it...whatever the going rate is.
AND...if in bidding, people start bidding OVER the going rate (you can bid or buy outright on Ebay) then the price will go up even more. I have been playing and tracking this game long enough (since end of Revised) to know this.
WE are the problem folks...NOT Wizards.
So if you WANT card prices to go down...STOP BUYING THEM.
Until we do, this won't change. Complaining about it won't change it and expecting WOTC to change their rarity algo or power level of cards is just plain absurd.
Oh, and one last thing. WOTC has nothing to do with the secondary market. They don't fix or set card prices. WE do by what we're willing to spend on a card given its power level and rarity.
And the suggestion that they stop printing powerful mythic rares is ludicrous. They won't do it AND...there are people, like me, who LIKE the powerful mythics. I love opening a pack and pulling one. (Pulled 2 Lilianas in 2 weeks)
Bottom Line: The secondary market is what it is and the ONLY way to change it, practically, is to say NO.
Because WOTC is a business and doesn't give a rat's behind about the people who don't like mythic rares because they're too powerful and too expensive.
Is now a wise time to buy Lilliana (2x) on MTGO? They are around $25, and I kind of want them for my solar flare deck.
They're not really worth $25 bucks for solar flare IMO. However, I'm willing to bet the price of Liliana will go back up again when the next set comes out.
Folks, of all those 3 things, (c) is the biggest problem. You can ***** all you want about the prices of cards. But we have nobody to blame for these cards GETTING those prices but ourselves.
If everybody (and I do mean EVERYBODY) said to the secondary market "I'm not paying $X for that card" they would HAVE to lower the price. But we don't do that. We see a powerful card and say to ourselves, "I just have to have that card to be competitive" and go out and buy it...whatever the going rate is.
AND...if in bidding, people start bidding OVER the going rate (you can bid or buy outright on Ebay) then the price will go up even more. I have been playing and tracking this game long enough (since end of Revised) to know this.
WE are the problem folks...NOT Wizards.
So if you WANT card prices to go down...STOP BUYING THEM.
So basically your solution is to quite playing? Other wise as long as their are people who want win the current prices will remain.
It's not like these prices come out of no where, the card values need to be enough to warrant booster being opened in the first place. And as people want to win, the value will be concetrated in rarest cards with the most power.
Oh, and one last thing. WOTC has nothing to do with the secondary market. They don't fix or set card prices. WE do by what we're willing to spend on a card given its power level and rarity.
As long as you make the the simple and true assumption that people want to win then all that matters in controlling a cards price is its rarity and power.
Because WOTC is a business and doesn't give a rat's behind about the people who don't like mythic rares because they're too powerful and too expensive.
They don't care now, but that doesn't mean they wont care someday if enough of the player base hates them. Of course that can only happen if they have the facts about how they have made magic more expensive and they don't believe misinformation such as "Mana fixing lands used to be $25" or "Wotc has no control over secondary market prices, they're all due to players/SCG."
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying stop buying cards at ridiculous prices. If people stopped doing that, the prices of individual cards would come down.
Other wise as long as their are people who want win the current prices will remain.
If everybody said no to the super expensive cards and just played with what came out of a booster pack, we wouldn't have this problem.
But yes, in reality, there are people who want to win at all costs. Nothing anybody does is going to change that. THOSE people will continue to drive prices up.
BUT...if many of the not so die hard players didn't follow the herd, this is what would happen.
The supply of all these super expensive cards would start to greatly outnumber the demand because many people who normally would buy the cards wouldn't be. That in itself will drive prices down because suppliers will have trouble getting rid of what they have. THEN...when prices come down, those who waited it out will NOW be able to afford the cards at a reasonable price.
Will it happen? No, of course not. Why? Because people who play this game outside of casual want to win TODAY. They don't want to wait until tomorrow to get their broken to heck combos.
And THAT is why this problem will NEVER go away.
It's not like these prices come out of no where, the card values need to be enough to warrant booster being opened in the first place. And as people want to win, the value will be concetrated in rarest cards with the most power.
Of course they don't come out of nowhere. The process for how a card achieves its "value" is a rather complex one, starting with the pros when a set comes out.
The cards are spoiled and the really good players evaluate them publicly, even before the cards are actually available. That's what happened with Innistrad just recently.
When the "powerful" cards are critiqued, the suppliers then take the card evaluations and the rarity type and from that come up with a base figure to start. That figure will go up or down based on demand.
Some cards don't catch on right away. Then somebody finds a way to abuse the card and the price skyrockets. Other cards are found to not be as good as first thought and the price goes down. How far up or down will depend on rarity. Mythic rares don't go up or down as much as regular rares. I have seen regular rares plummet from $20 a card to $5 a card because the card was not as good as first thought OR...as in the case of Stoneforge, banned in standard.
Point is, there is a lot that goes into how much a card sells for. Some of it is educated guessing but a lot of it is through past experience.
When Innistrad first came out, I went through every mythic and rare in the set that I felt was a powerful card and "priced" each card according to what I felt it would go for based on rarity level and past experience.
Not ONE card was I off by more than $5 in either direction.
And I am not even close to being an expert at card pricing.
But when you have played this game long enough, you just know what the good cards are and which ones are going to cost big bucks to get.
Why?
Now we get back to power level and rarity.
You have to understand something even though you have an agenda and want to see mythic rares no longer made (something that will never happen)
Take your everyday commons and uncommons and most of your rares. For the most part, they are pretty well balanced.
Case in point...a dual land that is standard legal is nowhere near as powerful as one of the original dual lands, which is why they go for $6 to $10 and not $80 to $120.
And for the most part, the bulk of the cards in a set are quite balanced and don't give the person who has them a huge advantage over those who just play with commons and uncommons. I came in 2nd one FNM with an all common and uncommon deck with just one exception...the dual lands that I played. It was an infect deck that even took out caw-blade with Jace and Stoneforge and all. Obliterated it.
But yes, powerful cards in many cases CAN make a huge difference.
Your solution to the problem is absurd to even think will ever happen.
For one thing, the power players DON'T want those cards to be so easy to get. They WANT them to be very rare so that only those who can afford to buy them will do so.
Otherwise, what happens to the tournament scene?
Everybody and their grandmother ends up with uber powerful decks. It's harder for the pros to win because there is more competition.
When THAT happens, the hard core pros get ticked off and stop playing and the game literally self destructs as far as competitive goes. Because these are the guys spending the big bucks, not just on cards, but on the game itself.
Think I'm wrong? Go ask the number 1 player in the world today if he wants to see Liliana go for $5 a pop.
It would be like somebody in the music industry (something I've been a part of for over 30 years) saying, "I want to sound just like on a professional CD but I don't want to have to pay for top studio time or, worse, build my own studio for $100,000. I want to sound like that for 300 bucks."
Just because he wants it doesn't mean it's ever going to happen.
WOTC will NOT stop printing super powerful cards.
Why?
Because those are the cards that REALLY make this game fun. Let's face it, vanilla Grizzly Bears get boring after a while. Jace was super cool because he had not one but FOUR abilities.
How awesome was that?
Did you REALLY expect them either to not make the card at all or make it a common?
Can we please be real about this? Cards like that HAVE to be hard to get. I bought a whole box of Worldwake and was LUCKY to pull ONE of him in it.
The other 3 I paid for AFTER he was banned just so I could have a playset. They cost me $60 a piece, which was a lot less than $100.
But if you wanted to play him when he was legal then you had to either buy packs and hope you pulled him or shell out $400 for a playset.
That's the reality and it will ALWAYS be the reality as long as there are hard core gamers who want the BEST cards and want to WIN.
And you petitioning for WOTC to get rid of mythics is a waste of time. And even before there was an "official" mythic label, there were rares that were much harder to get than others.
What makes you HONESTLY think it's going to change?
Again, the hard core pros won't let it change and WOTC knows this. And if they want this game to stay alive and well, at least in regard to the tour scene, they will NEVER make cards so easy to get, and thus cheap in the secondary market, that anybody can get them.
Can you imagine the backlash and the chaos that would ensue if WOTC ever reprinted the power 9 cards and worse yet, made them regular rares?
How many vintage players do you think would stop buying cards permanently?
Okay, it is what it is. You have several choices.
1. Don't buy the super expensive rares and mythics and just play with the cards you pull from packs.
2. Buy the super rares and mythics at whatever prices they're commanding.
3. Stop playing the game if card prices bother you.
But make no mistake about it...your anger at mythics is of no concern to WOTC. And thinking that enough people will feel the same way and boycott the game or complain to WOTC or whatever is just plain dreaming.
You'd have a better chance getting hit by lightning.
As long as you make the the simple and true assumption that people want to win then all that matters in controlling a cards price is its rarity and power.
Yeah, controlling it...something WOTC is doing the way THEY want to do it, not the way YOU want to do it.
They don't care now, but that doesn't mean they wont care someday if enough of the player base hates them.
Keep dreaming. And please don't hold your breath on this one. You hate them? Fine. You and I are but a spec to them. If you believe otherwise, you're kidding yourself.
Of course that can only happen if they have the facts about how they have made magic more expensive and they don't believe misinformation such as "Mana fixing lands used to be $25" or "Wotc has no control over secondary market prices, they're all due to players/SCG."
Made magic more expensive? Since when? Since the early days? Do you think, outside of the very first days of Magic, before people realized how powerful the moxen and Black Lotus were, that these cards EVER sold for a reasonable amount?
The lowest price I ever saw a mox go for (I've been playing since the end of Revised) was $300 back in the days of 4th Edition. It was in a Duelist Magazine where they'd list prices all the time...long before the Internet and this site were ever in existence.
You ALWAYS had super expensive cards.
My original dual lands, when they were just out of standard legal back in 95, cost me $20 a piece.
Back then I thought that was a lot of money.
Now you're looking at $80 - $120.
Has nothing to do with WOTC. The same amount of lands that were printed back then are still in print now.
So why the large increase?
Many reasons that I won't get into here because this reply is already longer than I wanted it to be. But none of them have anything to do with WOTC other than the fact that THEY STOPPED PRINTING THEM.
So your solution is either not to print these cards at all or make them available enough so that it's easy to get a playset.
Again, I'll refer you to the guy who wants to sound like the Foo Fighters for 300 bucks.
Sorry, ain't gonna happen.
You want to play with the big boys and compete, you'll need to open up your wallet and either buy cases of cards or buy the singles you want at the prices they're selling for.
Not fair? Tough...life isn't fair. Get over it. Nobody owes you anything, least of all cheap cards so you can go win your FNM or PTQ or whatever it is you want to win at.
Oh and BTW, you can buy a playset of commons and uncommons for under $40. That's less than half the cost of a box of cards. That's what I did.
Then, I went through all the rares I wanted in Innistrad and bought playsets of them.
It cost me all of $700.
Considering that Jace went for $400 for a playset alone, I'd say I made out pretty well.
Yeah, I can afford $700 for Magic Cards. You can't or don't want to spend that kind of money? Don't! Pick a different hobby.
Because this one is what it is and it's NOT going to change because YOU want it to.
No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying stop buying cards at ridiculous prices. If people stopped doing that, the prices of individual cards would come down.
So you are asking people to give up on being competitive? Even causal players want to win.
The supply of all these super expensive cards would start to greatly outnumber the demand because many people who normally would buy the cards wouldn't be. That in itself will drive prices down because suppliers will have trouble getting rid of what they have. THEN...when prices come down, those who waited it out will NOW be able to afford the cards at a reasonable price.
So then demand would increase and the prices would shoot right back up.
Will it happen? No, of course not. Why? Because people who play this game outside of casual want to win TODAY. They don't want to wait until tomorrow to get their broken to heck combos.
You mean you can't get a large group of people who don't know each other to work together and trust each other by all giving up an competitive advantage to lower the card prices so all the defectors of from the group can get the cards cheaper?
Of course they don't come out of nowhere. The process for how a card achieves its "value" is a rather complex one, starting with the pros when a set comes out......
Some cards don't catch on right away. Then somebody finds a way to abuse the card and the price skyrockets. Other cards are found to not be as good as first thought and the price goes down. How far up or down will depend on rarity.
You missed the point. I already have a good idea of how card pricing works. The point is cards have to be worth enough for people to open booster boxes, so unless no one buy mythics for any reason, then we will have expensive cards.
Mythic rares don't go up or down as much as regular rares. I have seen regular rares plummet from $20 a card to $5 a card because the card was not as good as first thought OR...as in the case of Stoneforge, banned in standard.
Yes time reversal never crashed in price.
Mythics tends not to go up as much percentage wise because most of them are hyped to begin with. Even thoughs that don't pan out (abbyssal persecutor, bad pws, ect... ) still maintain some vaule as they have the potential to be $50 cards if new decks comes out or the right cards are printed in the next set.
When Innistrad first came out, I went through every mythic and rare in the set that I felt was a powerful card and "priced" each card according to what I felt it would go for based on rarity level and past experience.
Not ONE card was I off by more than $5 in either direction.
And I am not even close to being an expert at card pricing.
Are you talking about pre-release prices or after release prices?
But when you have played this game long enough, you just know what the good cards are and which ones are going to cost big bucks to get.
I've probably been playing longer than you. With mythics around it screws up the equation, nowadays are rares vaule is much more dependent on the lack chase mythics than it's own power.
For one thing, the power players DON'T want those cards to be so easy to get. They WANT them to be very rare so that only those who can afford to buy them will do so.
Yes everyone liked $100 Jaces and wants to spend more money then less. I think the only people who want the game to be expensive are those with lots of extra cash but lacking in skill. I don' find it very fun to win just because I had better cards.
When THAT happens, the hard core pros get ticked off and stop playing and the game literally self destructs as far as competitive goes. Because these are the guys spending the big bucks, not just on cards, but on the game itself.
Think I'm wrong? Go ask the number 1 player in the world today if he wants to see Liliana go for $5 a pop.
1. I believe most pro's are sponsored and borrow their cards from stores or playgroups
2. If a pro can't handle more competition then he doesn't deserve to be a pro
3. I didn't see any pro's complaining in the past when good cards cost $5
Because those are the cards that REALLY make this game fun. Let's face it, vanilla Grizzly Bears get boring after a while. Jace was super cool because he had not one but FOUR abilities.
How awesome was that?
Did you REALLY expect them either to not make the card at all or make it a common?
I never said any of that. I just don't want staples at mythic.
And you petitioning for WOTC to get rid of mythics is a waste of time. And even before there was an "official" mythic label, there were rares that were much harder to get than others.
I don't know what are talking about. I believe in some of the early sets their where multiple levels of uncommons. But I've never heard of extra rare cards.
Again, the hard core pros won't let it change and WOTC knows this. And if they want this game to stay alive and well, at least in regard to the tour scene, they will NEVER make cards so easy to get, and thus cheap in the secondary market, that anybody can get them.
I doubt most pro's care. Most of the tournament playes I've met hate mythics.
Can you imagine the backlash and the chaos that would ensue if WOTC ever reprinted the power 9 cards and worse yet, made them regular rares?
How many vintage players do you think would stop buying cards permanently?
1. What does this have to do with anything
2. While many current vintage players would quite, the fact is with the greater supply of power 9 more people would probably play vintage, I would.
Okay, it is what it is. You have several choices.
1. Don't buy the super expensive rares and mythics and just play with the cards you pull from packs.
2. Buy the super rares and mythics at whatever prices they're commanding.
3. Stop playing the game if card prices bother you.
I'm not going to take advice from the guy who wonders into the complain about standard price thread, is surprised that people are complaining about standard prices then starts talking about vintage.
Yeah, controlling it...something WOTC is doing the way THEY want to do it, not the way YOU want to do it.
I'm not sure what you are even trying ot say here? The point is not about what me or Wotc wants. Rather that of the three variables you listed in the price of cards one of them is mute and the other 2 are controlled by Wotc.
Keep dreaming. And please don't hold your breath on this one. You hate them? Fine. You and I are but a spec to them. If you believe otherwise, you're kidding yourself.
That strategy worked out well for Palm, and A&M didn't it.
Made magic more expensive? Since when? Since the early days? Do you think, outside of the very first days of Magic, before people realized how powerful the moxen and Black Lotus were, that these cards EVER sold for a reasonable amount?
This is the complain about standard price thread. If you haven't figured it out yet we are talking about standard prices. The fact is pre-lowryn most tier 1 type 2 decks where in the $200 range. And only one card that I know of hit $30+ in that time era.
The lowest price I ever saw a mox go for (I've been playing since the end of Revised) was $300 back in the days of 4th Edition. It was in a Duelist Magazine where they'd list prices all the time...long before the Internet and this site were ever in existence.
Really? considering the fact that the moxes at around $100 and I believe didn't hit $300 till 2003-2004 you must have not been paying alot of attention.
I would reccommend buying common uncommon playsets. You can get them on ebay for around $15-$25 each. It's great for starting out since you get far more cards than you would get than spending the same money on boosters, you have 4 copies of most of the cards you need for a deck, not only does your purches tend not to lose vaule, like opening a booster does. If you keep the playset together the vaule tends to increase post rotation.
The problem is, a lot of people don't buy into cards when they're cheap at all. I'm not saying you need a playset of every good card under the sun, but just by going in on good cards when they're cheap, you can save money, or potentially even use them as good tradebait for cards you do really want.(generally speaking they need to be good in a vacuum, not part of an elaborate combo)
You missing the point, not every can buy the card cheap. It's not like the shops say we will keep this good card cheap for 10 days the raise the price. The price goes up because people are buying it. If everyone thought the card was good in the first place, then it would not have been under valued in the first place.
Magic isn't cheap, especially at standard, because the amount of rotations the decks go through will always keep prices fluctuating, and the best decks will command the same prices, and that's the truely competative people are willing to collectively pay.
The point is that a tier 2 2.5 deck now cost what a tier 1 deck cost pre-lowryn.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
You obviously have all the answers and know everything so it's pointless for me to continue this debate.
In a way, I feel sorry for you. You're waiting for something to happen (the end of the mythic rarity) that's never going to happen.
Yeah, I get that cards are more expensive today than pre Lorwyn.
Everything today is more expensive than what it was in 2007. It's called inflation. Hopefully, your income is able to keep up with that inflation. I know mine has. And yes, I get that not everybody can afford to play this game at the highest level. Like I said, it is what it is. Please read again my music business analogy which you conveniently ignored in your reply to me.
Personally, I want to see mythic rares stay around.
I think between the two of us, my wish is the one that's most likely going to come true.
Sometimes you have to realize when you're fighting a losing battle.
But whatever. I'm pretty much done with this thread as I've said everything there is to say.
Everything today is more expensive than what it was in 2007. It's called inflation. Hopefully, your income is able to keep up with that inflation. I know mine has. And yes, I get that not everybody can afford to play this game at the highest level. Like I said, it is what it is.
Ya we had 100% inflation in 3 years:rolleyes:.
It's very easy to calculate inflation in magic, the amount the booster change in price.
@Reused
I'm not arguing that if you know what you are doing buy cards when they are not in demand that you can't get them cheaper. That has always been the case.
My point is that is not a answer for the player base at large.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Ya we had 100% inflation in 3 years:rolleyes:.
It's very easy to calculate inflation in magic, the amount the booster change in price.
@Reused
I'm not arguing that if you know what you are doing buy cards when they are not in demand that you can't get them cheaper. That has always been the case.
My point is that is not a answer for the player base at large.
Perhaps the more interesting argument, rather than whether it's cheaper to buy cards out of demand (think we can all agree it should be); is the rapid price swings.
I unfortunately don't have any data in front of me to try and prove it, but is nobody else alarmed by the level of swing on prices? I think the bigger issue here is a card can jump in price rapidly through being 'discovered' and effectively advertised by play at a SCG or GP, as well as 'traders' who work on value who have an active interest in card price.
For example,
Consecrated Sphinx seemed to shoot up in price due to use in Jeremy Neeman's U/B GP Brisbane deck.
Elspeth Tirel jumped in price significantly after Juza in Hiroshima.
Garruk, Primal Hunter was seen as a red-headed step-childed and then rocketed with Wolf Run.
All reasonable examples of cards that at some point have seen a large price spike.
Is it the age of M:TG we live in, that cards are no longer discovered slowly and seen locally, then at events, resulting in gradual and consistent increase in price? Is it higher than ever levels of demand and advertisement?
You don't actually need to know anything to buy cards early, you just have to know what you like, why you like it and just go and buy it. Now of course, some cards are going to be hyped from the get-go, in which case you can usually ignore them.
And you still miss the point. The reason you can get the cards cheaper is because their is no demand is low.
If you're complaining that you can't get the cards cheap, when droves of people are buying these cards after huge amounts of hype and high results from top players at big events.
Please show me where I said any of that.
I'm complaining that price are higher. Card prices have always go up after doing well, but now the go up more, and they start off higher.
I don't think you can argue about "casual" players not being able to obtain cards, because it doesn't sound at all like casual players are driving the market right now.
Yes it so easy for causal players to get Jace, Swords ect... other tournament staples.
Casual player can obtain new casual only cards easy, sure. But that's always been the cases, and what I care is standard prices not causal.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
I support pauper. If you support that too then we wouldn't have a problem. Pauper has all the deck types available in standard. There's combo, aggro, control, burn etc...
I also blame starcity games for ramping up the prices and the people stupid enough to buy from them.
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People should not be complaining right now. The first time in a few years standard does not have a single card that is over 40$. And that is only two cards. Yes, some cards have recently spiked in price but that still is not that expensive. We need to be thankful there is not another jace/baneslayer/ reflecting pool/cryptic season.
Not really. We're still in the part of the year where prices are coming of their low point. Well there will probably no jaces as the prices rise we will probably see another elspeth or baneslayer.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Why do casual players need tournement staples. This is the entire premise of my post, the point of which you are missing over and over. Buy good cards cheap. I'm not saying crack the format early and realise when wurmcoil is going to go from 10-20 dollars. I'm just saying, if you're playing for FNM and don't want to spend over $100, then you can easily accomplish that and have a good deck.
Right now, standard is looking relatively cheap compared to last year. There was even an early thread during the release of innistrad that was basically "with the exception of liliana and snapcaster, all the cards are supercheap" which was true.
Every other card you could possibly want at the time was on a low. the good Swords were about $15 tops ($30 now?) and you only needed 1 or 2. Mirran and phyrexian crusader were both cheapish, wurmcoils and titans were cheap (primevals were at an alltime low) and generally, you could have bought any card you wanted at half the price it would cost now.
Now i'm going to say if you're one of the crowd that had to have only these big expensive cards, then you're not a casual player by any means. If you want to compete with people that are willing to spend $400, with the same cards, how can you possibly expect to do it for $100, and get the same assortment of cards? This has always been a "problem", even when the price of standard was about half of what it is now.
Even then, as Helix said, there's no Jace or Tarmogoyf problem right now. There is no format warping mythics, and the single most sought after card is a regular rare, which goes to show the secondary market isn't interested in the rarity of a card.
before and after mythics, we've always essentially had really expensive cards and really expensive rares. The only thing that's changed now in the past 2-3 years is that a lot more people are wanting to get more serious, and with the increased demand, you're getting higher prices. So it all boils down to the simple rules of supply and demand. If you want it as much as everyone else, be prepared to pay the same premium as everyone else.
Like I said though before, entering into standard is no different to entering into legacy if you can apply the same rules and logic to card buying and selling. I'll break it down real quick. Legacy, you spend $1000 on cards, and in 5 years time when you're sending your kids to college, you can sell them for $1000+ happily. (your cards, not your kids) Standard works on a much smaller timeframe. You can either take the "casual" FNM route or the "serious" amateur route.
a casual player buys $100 worth or RDW/Aggro/white weenie cards. Before their 2 years of standard playtime has expired, those cards are now worth about $20. You've now paid $80 to play for 2 years, that's not bad.
a serious player buys $400 worth of expensive rares and mythics. They probably fluctuate a lot, but before the cards standard spotlight expires, there might still be about $300 worth of value to be sold on ebay. They've then paid about $100 to play standard for 2 years, at a much higher level.
Now in a good year you might make that $300 back, and if you're unlucky and buying into fringe cards you might never make any money back, but this all comes down to having faith in powerful cards.
I have faith that in 2 years time, my purchase of 4 snapcasters will be worth the same if not more than what I spent on them if they're not banned in legacy/modern/standard. I might lose out, and it'll make me more weary of future investments, but seeing as i'm still investing my time and money into Magic, i can safely say that's not a problem yet. I don't even have a massive amount of disposable income and am happy enough.
Excellent post but I am afraid you're wasting your breath. This person has his mind made up that mythics are ruining the game and he wants them gone and nothing you or I or anybody else says is going to change his mind.
I don't like net decking, but I get it, I understand why people do it and realize that it's not going to stop. So I have finally come to accept it.
Such will not be the case in this argument.
You're fighting a losing battle.
When I realized that (a page or so back) I decided to take my marbles and go home and let him have his rant.
If you want to compete with people that are willing to spend $400, with the same cards, how can you possibly expect to do it for $100, and get the same assortment of cards? This has always been a "problem", even when the price of standard was about half of what it is now.
It was less of a problem spending $100 vs $200-$300 is much less of a problem than $100 vs $400-$800.
Even then, as Helix said, there's no Jace or Tarmogoyf problem right now. There is no format warping mythics, and the single most sought after card is a regular rare, which goes to show the secondary market isn't interested in the rarity of a card..
Which is why it's price is lower than mythics that see much less play?
The only thing that's changed now in the past 2-3 years is that a lot more people are wanting to get more serious, and with the increased demand, you're getting higher prices. So it all boils down to the simple rules of supply and demand. If you want it as much as everyone else, be prepared to pay the same premium as everyone else.
Incorrect, the supply of magic cards increases with the demand. People open
more booster to meet the supply. If it where a probelm with supply and demand then you would see then for sets with chase mythics you should see the expected vaule of the box to be higher, but infact the opposite it ussually true.
It would be like somebody in the music industry (something I've been a part of for over 30 years) saying, "I want to sound just like on a professional CD but I don't want to have to pay for top studio time or, worse, build my own studio for $100,000. I want to sound like that for 300 bucks."
Bad anaolgy. That can't been done for technical reason(I'll take your word for it). Where as magic can be cheaper which is simple to demonstrte by the fact that it used to be much cheaper and the only real differences were set sizes/rarity levels.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
i honestly believe, its just the law of supply and demand.. if they give in to everything.. it'll somehow ruin the balance of things.. as much as they would like to give everything to the people/consumer.. they must also look at things at the "business" point of view.. that's how i see it. but i do wish prices would go down though.. don't get me wrong, you're idea is great.. that's why they meet us halfway
This is how i would make an attempt at lowering the secondary market. With more "good" cards printed in a set or more even power levels, we may see a bunch of $5-15 cards as opposed to a $60, a $30, and mostly $1-2 rares.
It's Pretty hard to trade for stuff at the moment, as pretty much you have to make big trades for single cards, or constructed playable's for constructed playable's. Essentially everything is a net loss of some kind. I can definitely see the desire for more balanced sets, but still don't know if that fixes everything, especially with large sets. A better balance would definitely help though.
Agreed. For anyone trying to 'buy in' to a particular deck, any scars cards are not cheap since they're not being opened any more.
If you've been around for a while, unless you're desperate to change archetype to something you have no scars for, you should have hoarded some staples. If not, learn this time around to hoard staples whilst they're being opened.
Otherwise, there's got to be a willingness to trade staples if needed and negotiate hard to try and get value. I had consecrated sphinx from cheaper days and am unlikely to play the current incarnation of blue, so he's in binder.
Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
Because others see what people play and not what they [i]could[/c] play. Foresight is hard when it is reacting to what the pros play.
Anyway, standard is still the cheapest format overall to play. Invest small and preorder using discretion of what will be good. You may be wrong sometimes, but more often than not, you will be fine. And, as always, learn to evaluate cards yourself. Actually, scrap that, don't do it, because I want to continue taking advantage of good cards that get overlooked by forum hounds.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
1. If you really have that much foresight you should buy all the stock of those cards that are available and make thousands.
2. Mythics rares are what make up a majority of a decks costs now and speculating on mythics tends to entail far more risk than reward. And even when you speculation is successful you are getting a $100 card for $50 or a $40 card for $10-20, not a $10-50 card for $1-2.
3. If everyone had such great speculation ability then the cards would not be undervalued in the first place.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Let's cut to the chase on several issues.
1. WOTC isn't going to change its policy on what cards to print at what rarities unless WOTC feels a need to do so based on business, not on our *****ing about the price of cards. End of story.
2. Card prices are determined by 3 things.
a. How rare the card is
b. How good the card is
c. How much money we're willing to spend on it
Folks, of all those 3 things, (c) is the biggest problem. You can ***** all you want about the prices of cards. But we have nobody to blame for these cards GETTING those prices but ourselves.
If everybody (and I do mean EVERYBODY) said to the secondary market "I'm not paying $X for that card" they would HAVE to lower the price. But we don't do that. We see a powerful card and say to ourselves, "I just have to have that card to be competitive" and go out and buy it...whatever the going rate is.
AND...if in bidding, people start bidding OVER the going rate (you can bid or buy outright on Ebay) then the price will go up even more. I have been playing and tracking this game long enough (since end of Revised) to know this.
WE are the problem folks...NOT Wizards.
So if you WANT card prices to go down...STOP BUYING THEM.
Until we do, this won't change. Complaining about it won't change it and expecting WOTC to change their rarity algo or power level of cards is just plain absurd.
Oh, and one last thing. WOTC has nothing to do with the secondary market. They don't fix or set card prices. WE do by what we're willing to spend on a card given its power level and rarity.
And the suggestion that they stop printing powerful mythic rares is ludicrous. They won't do it AND...there are people, like me, who LIKE the powerful mythics. I love opening a pack and pulling one. (Pulled 2 Lilianas in 2 weeks)
Bottom Line: The secondary market is what it is and the ONLY way to change it, practically, is to say NO.
Because WOTC is a business and doesn't give a rat's behind about the people who don't like mythic rares because they're too powerful and too expensive.
Sigh.
I have a question about replacing the wurmcoils that are supposed to be in my deck with something else. Where do I post that question?
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
They're not really worth $25 bucks for solar flare IMO. However, I'm willing to bet the price of Liliana will go back up again when the next set comes out.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
So basically your solution is to quite playing? Other wise as long as their are people who want win the current prices will remain.
It's not like these prices come out of no where, the card values need to be enough to warrant booster being opened in the first place. And as people want to win, the value will be concetrated in rarest cards with the most power.
As long as you make the the simple and true assumption that people want to win then all that matters in controlling a cards price is its rarity and power.
They don't care now, but that doesn't mean they wont care someday if enough of the player base hates them. Of course that can only happen if they have the facts about how they have made magic more expensive and they don't believe misinformation such as "Mana fixing lands used to be $25" or "Wotc has no control over secondary market prices, they're all due to players/SCG."
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying stop buying cards at ridiculous prices. If people stopped doing that, the prices of individual cards would come down.
If everybody said no to the super expensive cards and just played with what came out of a booster pack, we wouldn't have this problem.
But yes, in reality, there are people who want to win at all costs. Nothing anybody does is going to change that. THOSE people will continue to drive prices up.
BUT...if many of the not so die hard players didn't follow the herd, this is what would happen.
The supply of all these super expensive cards would start to greatly outnumber the demand because many people who normally would buy the cards wouldn't be. That in itself will drive prices down because suppliers will have trouble getting rid of what they have. THEN...when prices come down, those who waited it out will NOW be able to afford the cards at a reasonable price.
Will it happen? No, of course not. Why? Because people who play this game outside of casual want to win TODAY. They don't want to wait until tomorrow to get their broken to heck combos.
And THAT is why this problem will NEVER go away.
Of course they don't come out of nowhere. The process for how a card achieves its "value" is a rather complex one, starting with the pros when a set comes out.
The cards are spoiled and the really good players evaluate them publicly, even before the cards are actually available. That's what happened with Innistrad just recently.
When the "powerful" cards are critiqued, the suppliers then take the card evaluations and the rarity type and from that come up with a base figure to start. That figure will go up or down based on demand.
Some cards don't catch on right away. Then somebody finds a way to abuse the card and the price skyrockets. Other cards are found to not be as good as first thought and the price goes down. How far up or down will depend on rarity. Mythic rares don't go up or down as much as regular rares. I have seen regular rares plummet from $20 a card to $5 a card because the card was not as good as first thought OR...as in the case of Stoneforge, banned in standard.
Point is, there is a lot that goes into how much a card sells for. Some of it is educated guessing but a lot of it is through past experience.
When Innistrad first came out, I went through every mythic and rare in the set that I felt was a powerful card and "priced" each card according to what I felt it would go for based on rarity level and past experience.
Not ONE card was I off by more than $5 in either direction.
And I am not even close to being an expert at card pricing.
But when you have played this game long enough, you just know what the good cards are and which ones are going to cost big bucks to get.
Why?
Now we get back to power level and rarity.
You have to understand something even though you have an agenda and want to see mythic rares no longer made (something that will never happen)
Take your everyday commons and uncommons and most of your rares. For the most part, they are pretty well balanced.
Case in point...a dual land that is standard legal is nowhere near as powerful as one of the original dual lands, which is why they go for $6 to $10 and not $80 to $120.
And for the most part, the bulk of the cards in a set are quite balanced and don't give the person who has them a huge advantage over those who just play with commons and uncommons. I came in 2nd one FNM with an all common and uncommon deck with just one exception...the dual lands that I played. It was an infect deck that even took out caw-blade with Jace and Stoneforge and all. Obliterated it.
But yes, powerful cards in many cases CAN make a huge difference.
Your solution to the problem is absurd to even think will ever happen.
For one thing, the power players DON'T want those cards to be so easy to get. They WANT them to be very rare so that only those who can afford to buy them will do so.
Otherwise, what happens to the tournament scene?
Everybody and their grandmother ends up with uber powerful decks. It's harder for the pros to win because there is more competition.
When THAT happens, the hard core pros get ticked off and stop playing and the game literally self destructs as far as competitive goes. Because these are the guys spending the big bucks, not just on cards, but on the game itself.
Think I'm wrong? Go ask the number 1 player in the world today if he wants to see Liliana go for $5 a pop.
It would be like somebody in the music industry (something I've been a part of for over 30 years) saying, "I want to sound just like on a professional CD but I don't want to have to pay for top studio time or, worse, build my own studio for $100,000. I want to sound like that for 300 bucks."
Just because he wants it doesn't mean it's ever going to happen.
WOTC will NOT stop printing super powerful cards.
Why?
Because those are the cards that REALLY make this game fun. Let's face it, vanilla Grizzly Bears get boring after a while. Jace was super cool because he had not one but FOUR abilities.
How awesome was that?
Did you REALLY expect them either to not make the card at all or make it a common?
Can we please be real about this? Cards like that HAVE to be hard to get. I bought a whole box of Worldwake and was LUCKY to pull ONE of him in it.
The other 3 I paid for AFTER he was banned just so I could have a playset. They cost me $60 a piece, which was a lot less than $100.
But if you wanted to play him when he was legal then you had to either buy packs and hope you pulled him or shell out $400 for a playset.
That's the reality and it will ALWAYS be the reality as long as there are hard core gamers who want the BEST cards and want to WIN.
And you petitioning for WOTC to get rid of mythics is a waste of time. And even before there was an "official" mythic label, there were rares that were much harder to get than others.
What makes you HONESTLY think it's going to change?
Again, the hard core pros won't let it change and WOTC knows this. And if they want this game to stay alive and well, at least in regard to the tour scene, they will NEVER make cards so easy to get, and thus cheap in the secondary market, that anybody can get them.
Can you imagine the backlash and the chaos that would ensue if WOTC ever reprinted the power 9 cards and worse yet, made them regular rares?
How many vintage players do you think would stop buying cards permanently?
Okay, it is what it is. You have several choices.
1. Don't buy the super expensive rares and mythics and just play with the cards you pull from packs.
2. Buy the super rares and mythics at whatever prices they're commanding.
3. Stop playing the game if card prices bother you.
But make no mistake about it...your anger at mythics is of no concern to WOTC. And thinking that enough people will feel the same way and boycott the game or complain to WOTC or whatever is just plain dreaming.
You'd have a better chance getting hit by lightning.
Yeah, controlling it...something WOTC is doing the way THEY want to do it, not the way YOU want to do it.
Keep dreaming. And please don't hold your breath on this one. You hate them? Fine. You and I are but a spec to them. If you believe otherwise, you're kidding yourself.
Made magic more expensive? Since when? Since the early days? Do you think, outside of the very first days of Magic, before people realized how powerful the moxen and Black Lotus were, that these cards EVER sold for a reasonable amount?
The lowest price I ever saw a mox go for (I've been playing since the end of Revised) was $300 back in the days of 4th Edition. It was in a Duelist Magazine where they'd list prices all the time...long before the Internet and this site were ever in existence.
You ALWAYS had super expensive cards.
My original dual lands, when they were just out of standard legal back in 95, cost me $20 a piece.
Back then I thought that was a lot of money.
Now you're looking at $80 - $120.
Has nothing to do with WOTC. The same amount of lands that were printed back then are still in print now.
So why the large increase?
Many reasons that I won't get into here because this reply is already longer than I wanted it to be. But none of them have anything to do with WOTC other than the fact that THEY STOPPED PRINTING THEM.
So your solution is either not to print these cards at all or make them available enough so that it's easy to get a playset.
Again, I'll refer you to the guy who wants to sound like the Foo Fighters for 300 bucks.
Sorry, ain't gonna happen.
You want to play with the big boys and compete, you'll need to open up your wallet and either buy cases of cards or buy the singles you want at the prices they're selling for.
Not fair? Tough...life isn't fair. Get over it. Nobody owes you anything, least of all cheap cards so you can go win your FNM or PTQ or whatever it is you want to win at.
Oh and BTW, you can buy a playset of commons and uncommons for under $40. That's less than half the cost of a box of cards. That's what I did.
Then, I went through all the rares I wanted in Innistrad and bought playsets of them.
It cost me all of $700.
Considering that Jace went for $400 for a playset alone, I'd say I made out pretty well.
Yeah, I can afford $700 for Magic Cards. You can't or don't want to spend that kind of money? Don't! Pick a different hobby.
Because this one is what it is and it's NOT going to change because YOU want it to.
/Rant
So you are asking people to give up on being competitive? Even causal players want to win.
Assuming that there was no trading, then maybe.
They would lose more.
So then demand would increase and the prices would shoot right back up.
You mean you can't get a large group of people who don't know each other to work together and trust each other by all giving up an competitive advantage to lower the card prices so all the defectors of from the group can get the cards cheaper?
You missed the point. I already have a good idea of how card pricing works. The point is cards have to be worth enough for people to open booster boxes, so unless no one buy mythics for any reason, then we will have expensive cards.
Yes time reversal never crashed in price.
Mythics tends not to go up as much percentage wise because most of them are hyped to begin with. Even thoughs that don't pan out (abbyssal persecutor, bad pws, ect... ) still maintain some vaule as they have the potential to be $50 cards if new decks comes out or the right cards are printed in the next set.
Are you talking about pre-release prices or after release prices?
I've probably been playing longer than you. With mythics around it screws up the equation, nowadays are rares vaule is much more dependent on the lack chase mythics than it's own power.
Yes everyone liked $100 Jaces and wants to spend more money then less. I think the only people who want the game to be expensive are those with lots of extra cash but lacking in skill. I don' find it very fun to win just because I had better cards.
So then skill will become more important and money less important, how horrible.
1. I believe most pro's are sponsored and borrow their cards from stores or playgroups
2. If a pro can't handle more competition then he doesn't deserve to be a pro
3. I didn't see any pro's complaining in the past when good cards cost $5
I never said any of that. I just don't want staples at mythic.
I don't know what are talking about. I believe in some of the early sets their where multiple levels of uncommons. But I've never heard of extra rare cards.
I doubt most pro's care. Most of the tournament playes I've met hate mythics.
1. What does this have to do with anything
2. While many current vintage players would quite, the fact is with the greater supply of power 9 more people would probably play vintage, I would.
I'm not going to take advice from the guy who wonders into the complain about standard price thread, is surprised that people are complaining about standard prices then starts talking about vintage.
I have the choice to complain and I'll do so.
I'm not sure what you are even trying ot say here? The point is not about what me or Wotc wants. Rather that of the three variables you listed in the price of cards one of them is mute and the other 2 are controlled by Wotc.
That strategy worked out well for Palm, and A&M didn't it.
This is the complain about standard price thread. If you haven't figured it out yet we are talking about standard prices. The fact is pre-lowryn most tier 1 type 2 decks where in the $200 range. And only one card that I know of hit $30+ in that time era.
Really? considering the fact that the moxes at around $100 and I believe didn't hit $300 till 2003-2004 you must have not been paying alot of attention.
Really I had no idea.
Considering that getting a playset of many older set, which where bigger could often be obtained in one purchase for $400-$600 it seems subpar.
Maybe it wont but I'm still going to try, and I'm still going to complain.
You missing the point, not every can buy the card cheap. It's not like the shops say we will keep this good card cheap for 10 days the raise the price. The price goes up because people are buying it. If everyone thought the card was good in the first place, then it would not have been under valued in the first place.
The point is that a tier 2 2.5 deck now cost what a tier 1 deck cost pre-lowryn.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
You obviously have all the answers and know everything so it's pointless for me to continue this debate.
In a way, I feel sorry for you. You're waiting for something to happen (the end of the mythic rarity) that's never going to happen.
Yeah, I get that cards are more expensive today than pre Lorwyn.
Everything today is more expensive than what it was in 2007. It's called inflation. Hopefully, your income is able to keep up with that inflation. I know mine has. And yes, I get that not everybody can afford to play this game at the highest level. Like I said, it is what it is. Please read again my music business analogy which you conveniently ignored in your reply to me.
Personally, I want to see mythic rares stay around.
I think between the two of us, my wish is the one that's most likely going to come true.
Sometimes you have to realize when you're fighting a losing battle.
But whatever. I'm pretty much done with this thread as I've said everything there is to say.
Mythics are not inflation. This statement is specious and irrelevant.
Ya we had 100% inflation in 3 years:rolleyes:.
It's very easy to calculate inflation in magic, the amount the booster change in price.
@Reused
I'm not arguing that if you know what you are doing buy cards when they are not in demand that you can't get them cheaper. That has always been the case.
My point is that is not a answer for the player base at large.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Perhaps the more interesting argument, rather than whether it's cheaper to buy cards out of demand (think we can all agree it should be); is the rapid price swings.
I unfortunately don't have any data in front of me to try and prove it, but is nobody else alarmed by the level of swing on prices? I think the bigger issue here is a card can jump in price rapidly through being 'discovered' and effectively advertised by play at a SCG or GP, as well as 'traders' who work on value who have an active interest in card price.
For example,
Consecrated Sphinx seemed to shoot up in price due to use in Jeremy Neeman's U/B GP Brisbane deck.
Elspeth Tirel jumped in price significantly after Juza in Hiroshima.
Garruk, Primal Hunter was seen as a red-headed step-childed and then rocketed with Wolf Run.
SoFaF, Angelic Destiny, Birthing Pod, Spellskite...
All reasonable examples of cards that at some point have seen a large price spike.
Is it the age of M:TG we live in, that cards are no longer discovered slowly and seen locally, then at events, resulting in gradual and consistent increase in price? Is it higher than ever levels of demand and advertisement?
Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
OK, then explain how if all the causal players want to same card they can all get it cheap.
This is not a startagey that can not be used by the whole player base.
And you still miss the point. The reason you can get the cards cheaper is because their is no demand is low.
Please show me where I said any of that.
I'm complaining that price are higher. Card prices have always go up after doing well, but now the go up more, and they start off higher.
Yes it so easy for causal players to get Jace, Swords ect... other tournament staples.
Casual player can obtain new casual only cards easy, sure. But that's always been the cases, and what I care is standard prices not causal.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
I also blame starcity games for ramping up the prices and the people stupid enough to buy from them.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Excellent post but I am afraid you're wasting your breath. This person has his mind made up that mythics are ruining the game and he wants them gone and nothing you or I or anybody else says is going to change his mind.
I don't like net decking, but I get it, I understand why people do it and realize that it's not going to stop. So I have finally come to accept it.
Such will not be the case in this argument.
You're fighting a losing battle.
When I realized that (a page or so back) I decided to take my marbles and go home and let him have his rant.
Some people's minds will never change.
You can take that to the bank.
I never said they needed them just that the prices deny access to them.
And my entire point is only a small portion of the magic community can do this
.
These are the kinds of prices we had in the fall before the 2010 spring season with $500-$800 decks.
Ya I know this. Please explain how that helps the magic community as a whole.
This is the complain about standard price thread not the complain about casual price thread.
It was less of a problem spending $100 vs $200-$300 is much less of a problem than $100 vs $400-$800.
Which is why it's price is lower than mythics that see much less play?
Other than goyf no rare ever reached mythic prices.
Incorrect, the supply of magic cards increases with the demand. People open
more booster to meet the supply. If it where a probelm with supply and demand then you would see then for sets with chase mythics you should see the expected vaule of the box to be higher, but infact the opposite it ussually true.
If you really believe than please explain how a majority of the magic player base can buy a card while it is undervauled.
says the guy who's ever point was show to be wrong.
And just beacuse you whined about it earlier
Bad anaolgy. That can't been done for technical reason(I'll take your word for it). Where as magic can be cheaper which is simple to demonstrte by the fact that it used to be much cheaper and the only real differences were set sizes/rarity levels.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
I want to buy booster boxes for half price!
Standard
UR Control
Modern
Merfolk
Burn
Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge