The ideal of this deck is to use creatures such as Dreamstealer and Herald of Anguish along with cards such as Lay Bare the Heart and Torment of Hailfire to force opponents into top deck mode and/or keep their hands completely clear while allowing them no threats.
I have done a bit of testing so far and it seems as though 24 lands might be too many. I am also struggling with keeping relevant threats around if they board wipe me. I had an opponent Yahenni's Expertise me twice within 3 turns and then just pounce in when I drew 3-4 lands in a row.
I was wondering if anyone has better ideals for removal as well as the creature suite primarily. The sideboard is a toss up as well but I know I want to add in at least a couple of copies of Yahenni's Expertise and cards such as [/c]Crook of Condemnation[/c] to slow and or defeat graveyard decks. I know fatal push would be an obvious step up in removal but I want to make sure I have no condition removal. Also, I know it is a long shot but id like to find an exile spell or some other spell to deal with all of the indestructible gods running around
It doesn't matter if Fatal Push is conditional. It's vital in the meta right now, not to mention you play it then Bone Picker. A flying 3/2 deathtouch and removal for just 2 mana.
Try experimenting with red or green splash.
Pump spells like blossoming defense on a dreamstealer are awesome.
Walking ballista is a great grind card and an early trigger for t1 bone picker if you need it.
I have made some changes to the deck as a whole. I realized in play testing that I wasn't posing enough threat with the amount of creatures I was currently fielding. I also realize that I needed some sort of card draw engine to keep me going as well. Here is my list as of now.
Owing to the need to run fatal push I will probably be adding 2-3. I am thinking of dropping 1 essence extraction as well as at least one painful lesson in order to achieve this.
Yes, I was just about to say, I appreciate the decklist but I really want to keep this rotation proof. That is why I didn't include removal such as grasp of darkness etc.
It does matter. Its completely uneconomical to buy into cards like lili and then sell them off in 6 weeks for half the price.
It would be better advice to say hold off on making a deck at all until ixalan is fully spoiled. At least then every card in standard has minimum 12months on them.
The sideboard has been created but is still in revision status. Im not 100% sure on hour of glory. I never seem to side it in while playtesting.
It seems that this deck has above average game against control EXCEPT against control running Approach of the Second Sun. For some reason I just cant get ahead on them. Then again I hate "you win the game" cards anyway....
If you're running something rotation proof and are having problems against control I have no idea why you're not running cards like Gonti, Lord of Luxury, Lost Legacy, or Dispossess in the sideboard.
Dispossess hits their Gearhulks that severely limits their win cons. Gonti has a wide range of uses like against BG, Mardu, and control. I've stolen plenty of counterspells and wincons with him. The fact that you can still play the card even when Gonti is gone is a no brainer.
Ruh of vitality vs supernatural stamina is a toss up. Rush gives me some extra life but supernatural gives a surprise 3 card discard for an unblocked stealer. This really hurts control decks if I manage to stick a stealer early which has happened a few times.
I have hour of glory in the board but it rarely finds it to the main. I'm thinking of dropping it. Battle gives me some removal for gods and gains me back some life. This deck can take some early hits.
Gonti will find it's way into this deck soon. Just have to find slots.
I have a similar deck and went with 2 noxious GH
2 ghonti
2 Lilly's to reanimate the above cards.
Everything in the deck has deathtouch to slow them down.
Card advantage is an issue still
If I were you I'd splash another color, to many key peices rotate.
I was thinking about starting a thread of my own when i stumbled upon this topic.
I have been brewing a list similar to the ideas here, but with a different approach in the Ixalan standard format.
The core of the deck resolves around a 5 damage clock from turn 4 onwards with:
The strategy (on curve):
Keep the board clean of creatures and removalspells with Handdisruption, Removal and Gifted Aetherborn in the early turns.
Resolve a Dreamstealer
Resolve a Raiders' Wake
And start swinging while keeping blockers in check for mannace to work, for 5 - 9 damage a turn.
Use Painful Lesson to refuel your engine and nab another 2 from the opponent. This card also doubles as a search engine for your winconditions.
End the game with Torment of Hailfire when the opponents board and hand is almost empty.
Painful Lesson Has a double function here. Besides the obvious "draw two, tose two" it also acts as a way to make a 7 point lifeswing possible, against most decks, when the combo is online. The Raiders' Wake trigger only happens when the opponent CAN discard.
I played the deck this weekend in paper, but only against a narrow selection of decks. Mainly a draw-go style UB control build with The Scarab God
Let's put it this way: When i t works, it works great! But the control mirror is unfavored due to the instant speed nature of the opponent.
Against ramp/midrange creaturedecks it works great. I have no clue as of how it will function against real aggro style play. Might need something like Bontu's Last Reckoning in the side.
Here's my list. Going for the kill with Torment of Hailfire and Torment of Scarabs. Idea is to keep the board clear of things they can sacrice, as well as clear away things they can discard, forcing them to take damage.
My sideboard is more of a maybeboard. Not sure what combination of which cards I want in the final build. Yahenni's Expertise allows you to clear the board against nasty things like Ram Red, and also casts some of those discards and kill spells for free.
Hey guys. 1 of the things I realized with a lot of you builds is that you guys aren't running a lot of lands and most of you also run Ifnir Deadlands and Torment of Hailfire. If you do run those cards, I wouldn't run less than 24 lands. Also, in my testing, Torment of Hailfire hasn't been the all-star I would have liked it to be. It often just got stuck in my hands doing nothing because the opponent could choose a mode that wouldn't cut it at that moment or because I didn't have enough mana to make it viable at that time. If you guys really want to play it that's fine but I wouldn't play more than 3.
Torment of Scarabs is a glorious card. I played 6 matches against Ram Red and lost them all, only getting my opponent down to 2 life in one of the games. Duress is kinda not the card I hoped it would be. My opponent found he had a hand he couldn't use most of the game, but when it came to top deck mode he eked out a win every time. Lost Legacy is really not as good as I had hoped, so I put it in sideboard and opted for Doomfall mainboard instead.
Torment of Hailfire was average. It wasn't bad, but it also wasn't the finisher I had hoped it would be. I found myself getting to 5 mana very easily, and always ended up casting it for that much. The issue is turns 8+ I ended up top decking lands a lot, even with 22. This deck really can't afford to sacrifice life for cards either, because it gets pounded so hard early game against hyper aggressive decks.
I've found against hyper aggressive decks like Ram Red, they get in too much early damage turn 1 and 2 with Earthshaker Khenra and Bomat Courier. We need more instant speed hand disruption, because the sorcery aspect is really killing the tempo of the deck. Annoyingly I put in Yahenni's Expertise to specifically combat Ram Red and didn't see it in any games whatsoever...
I have done a bit of testing so far and it seems as though 24 lands might be too many. I am also struggling with keeping relevant threats around if they board wipe me. I had an opponent Yahenni's Expertise me twice within 3 turns and then just pounce in when I drew 3-4 lands in a row.
I was wondering if anyone has better ideals for removal as well as the creature suite primarily. The sideboard is a toss up as well but I know I want to add in at least a couple of copies of Yahenni's Expertise and cards such as [/c]Crook of Condemnation[/c] to slow and or defeat graveyard decks. I know fatal push would be an obvious step up in removal but I want to make sure I have no condition removal. Also, I know it is a long shot but id like to find an exile spell or some other spell to deal with all of the indestructible gods running around
Thanks for any input
4x Bone Picker
4x Dreamstealer
4x Herald of Anguish
4x Wretched Camel
3x Lay Bare the Heart
3x Never // Return
4x Painful Lesson
4x Torment of Hailfire
3x Essence Extraction
3x Rush of Vitality
Land (24)
4x Ifnir Deadlands
20x Swamp
Hour of Glory is the card you're looking for.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Pump spells like blossoming defense on a dreamstealer are awesome.
Walking ballista is a great grind card and an early trigger for t1 bone picker if you need it.
4x Bone Picker
4x Dreamstealer
4x Herald of Anguish
4x Plague Belcher
4x Wretched Camel
3x Doomfall
4x Painful Lesson
3x Torment of Hailfire
Instants (6)
3x Essence Extraction
3x Rush of Vitality
4x Ifnir Deadlands
20x Swamp
Owing to the need to run fatal push I will probably be adding 2-3. I am thinking of dropping 1 essence extraction as well as at least one painful lesson in order to achieve this.
Thoughts on this course of action?
4x Miasmic Mummy
4x Heir of Falkenrath
4x Asylum Visitor
2x Lupine Prototype
4x Fatal Push
3x Grasp of Darkness
Sorcery(18)
3x Alms of the Vein
4x Collective Brutality
3x Whispers of Emrakul
4x Torment of Hailfire
2x Harsh Scrutiny
2x From Under the Floorboards
18x Swamp
3x Evolving Wilds
It does not matter if they rotate. They are still playable. This is a BLACK deck
C Long Live Eldrazi C
It would be better advice to say hold off on making a deck at all until ixalan is fully spoiled. At least then every card in standard has minimum 12months on them.
Aetherborn is an excellent card though
4x Bone Picker
4x Dreamstealer
4x Gifted Aetherborn
2x Herald of Anguish
Sorceries (15)
2x Battle at the Bridge
2x Bontu's Last Reckoning
4x Doomfall
2x Never // Return
2x Painful Lesson
3x Torment of Hailfire
4x Fatal Push
Enchantments (3)
3x Torment of Scarabs
Land (24)
3x Desert of the Glorified
4x Ifnir Deadlands
2x Scavenger Grounds
15x Swamp
1x Herald of Anguish
3x Harsh Scrutiny
2x Yahenni's Expertise
3x Hour of Glory
3x Supernatural Stamina
1x Torment of Scarabs
The sideboard has been created but is still in revision status. Im not 100% sure on hour of glory. I never seem to side it in while playtesting.
It seems that this deck has above average game against control EXCEPT against control running Approach of the Second Sun. For some reason I just cant get ahead on them. Then again I hate "you win the game" cards anyway....
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I have hour of glory in the board but it rarely finds it to the main. I'm thinking of dropping it. Battle gives me some removal for gods and gains me back some life. This deck can take some early hits.
Gonti will find it's way into this deck soon. Just have to find slots.
2 ghonti
2 Lilly's to reanimate the above cards.
Everything in the deck has deathtouch to slow them down.
Card advantage is an issue still
If I were you I'd splash another color, to many key peices rotate.
I have been brewing a list similar to the ideas here, but with a different approach in the Ixalan standard format.
The core of the deck resolves around a 5 damage clock from turn 4 onwards with:
The strategy (on curve):
Keep the board clean of creatures and removalspells with Handdisruption, Removal and Gifted Aetherborn in the early turns.
Resolve a Dreamstealer
Resolve a Raiders' Wake
And start swinging while keeping blockers in check for mannace to work, for 5 - 9 damage a turn.
Use Painful Lesson to refuel your engine and nab another 2 from the opponent. This card also doubles as a search engine for your winconditions.
End the game with Torment of Hailfire when the opponents board and hand is almost empty.
4x Gifted Aetherborn
4x Dreamstealer
2x Noxious Gearhulk
Spells (22)
4x Harsh Scrutiny
2x Duress
4x Fatal Push
4x Lay Bare the Heart
4x Painful Lesson
4x Torment of Hailfire
4x Raiders' Wake
Lands (24)
4x Ifnir Deadlands
20x Swamp
I'll be checking for the correct balance in creature removal and discard spells, also the sideboard need development.
Current must includes are:
Possible additions are:
I'll be testing this rough sketch of my list this weekend but it probably needs some tuning. Curious to hear your remarks and recomendations!
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Let's put it this way: When i t works, it works great! But the control mirror is unfavored due to the instant speed nature of the opponent.
Against ramp/midrange creaturedecks it works great. I have no clue as of how it will function against real aggro style play. Might need something like Bontu's Last Reckoning in the side.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
4x Duress
4x Doomfall
4x Lay Bare the Heart
4x Torment of Hailfire
4x Walk the Plank
2x Yahenni's Expertise
4x Bone Picker
4x Gifted Aetherborn
Land (22)
4x Ifnir Deadlands
18x Swamp
Instant (4)
4x Fatal Push
Enchantment (4)
4x Torment of Scarabs
4x Dreamstealer
4x Lost Legacy
4x Harsh Scrutiny
3x Hour of Glory
My sideboard is more of a maybeboard. Not sure what combination of which cards I want in the final build. Yahenni's Expertise allows you to clear the board against nasty things like Ram Red, and also casts some of those discards and kill spells for free.
Modern:R 8Whack R|W White Knights W
The way I see it. There's two way to go for this archetype. 1) Creature light control which is more focused on Torment of Scarabs 2) Aggro-control that's more focused on Raiders' Wake. My suggestion for the first way would be that you start with this list from Ikuta Masaya and update it for the rotation: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/instant-deck-tech-curse-control-standard.
For the 2nd option, I would try something like this:
15 Swamps
4 Ifnir Deadlands
4 Desert of the Glorified
1 Scavenger Grounds
Creatures
4 Kitesail Freebooter
3 Gifted Aetherborn
4 Dreamstealer
3 Bone Picker
2 Fatal Push
2 Supernatural Stamina
Sorcery
3 Duress
3 Walk the Plank
3 Painful lesson
2 Never / Return
2 Torment of Hailfire
3 Raiders' wake
2 Torment of Scarabs
Torment of Hailfire was average. It wasn't bad, but it also wasn't the finisher I had hoped it would be. I found myself getting to 5 mana very easily, and always ended up casting it for that much. The issue is turns 8+ I ended up top decking lands a lot, even with 22. This deck really can't afford to sacrifice life for cards either, because it gets pounded so hard early game against hyper aggressive decks.
I've found against hyper aggressive decks like Ram Red, they get in too much early damage turn 1 and 2 with Earthshaker Khenra and Bomat Courier. We need more instant speed hand disruption, because the sorcery aspect is really killing the tempo of the deck. Annoyingly I put in Yahenni's Expertise to specifically combat Ram Red and didn't see it in any games whatsoever...
Modern:R 8Whack R|W White Knights W