A good example this morning I run into a mirror. Guy is playing full four Chemister’s insight, explosions, at least three justice strike, and some both sabotage and ionize. Overall I think that list is bad because all of those cards are horrendous vs fast decks which most decks are right now - frenzy red, blue tempo, white weenie, and even the benalia decks with Aurelia’s and troatanis are pretty quick. All you beat with his setup is golgari and mirror - but boy does it crushh the Mirror.
There can never be a correct build because it all depends on what you want to more reliably beat. Four insights is so clutch in the control mirror because you always make end of turn plays and always make your land drops. Multiple justice strikes are very clean answers to niv which is otherwise the mirror breaker, and expansion is amazing when it’s counterspell during a counter war and eot pressure that might snipe a planeswalker later.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I've moved over to the treasure map version and have been having pretty good results. Treasure Map feels like an upgrade over chemister's insight, revitalize, anticipate, and even azcanta/sarkhan. It also lets you run 4 niv mizzet and just lean on him as the win condition. I usually played 2 with the idea of just drawing one when I was ready to win, but its so hard to establish control right now that always having one to play early feels a lot better - as does knowing that if they kill the first 1 or 2nd that another should be coming.
The spell pierce, shocks, and phoenix are flex spots I'm testing. I've played shivan fire before and noticed I almost never actually kicked it - shock being able to pick off a teferi or vivien that -3's our niv is relevant, as is just picking off some small creature early on to buy more time to find a clarion or topping up clarion damage to pick off an x/4
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Considering how well the deck is doing, it's odd to see the thread so quiet.
My list is all-in on Niv-Mizzet, putting him at 4 copies since I always want to see him. However, he's shown up in my opening hands a little too frequently and I think I'd like to trim him down to 3.
25 lands with 4 Opts is fine. If you aren't running that can trip, it seems like 26 lands is the requirement.
Teferi as a 3-of seems to be the general consensus.
The question I wanted to ask is whether or not running some number of Drakes has proven useful to anyone else? The mini-combo with Deafening Clarion is cute and wins games when it happens, but I dislike having even more of my opponents' removal be live against my deck. I've been contemplating adding 1-2 more Wrath effects and possibly Ral, Izzet Viceroy.
Does anyone have any insight they're willing to share?
Considering how well the deck is doing, it's odd to see the thread so quiet.
My list is all-in on Niv-Mizzet, putting him at 4 copies since I always want to see him. However, he's shown up in my opening hands a little too frequently and I think I'd like to trim him down to 3.
25 lands with 4 Opts is fine. If you aren't running that can trip, it seems like 26 lands is the requirement.
Teferi as a 3-of seems to be the general consensus.
The question I wanted to ask is whether or not running some number of Drakes has proven useful to anyone else? The mini-combo with Deafening Clarion is cute and wins games when it happens, but I dislike having even more of my opponents' removal be live against my deck. I've been contemplating adding 1-2 more Wrath effects and possibly Ral, Izzet Viceroy.
Does anyone have any insight they're willing to share?
Im not all-in when it comes Standard currently but I have built Jeskai Control with 4 Treasure Maps and 4 Niv on Arena and I agree with you about seeing him a bit too often.
After reading a few things and playing a few events Im actually thinking if it wouldn't be better to just put him into the sideboard completely and go back to being a hard Control deck. The format has definitely adapted and getting value from your Niv has become harder. You are also giving up the typical game 1 advantage that Control decks have by blanking the removal spells that opponents very likely have in their hand. After sideboarding you can play then mindgames because if they take out all their removal they might not have one when Niv shows up. If they leave them in and you aren't all-in on Niv then they have dead cards in deck again.
Niv is very powerful don't get me wrong. He can win games single handily but playing so many juicy expensive targets for removal in the main bothers me and since those are often the only targets for those spells they will also eat them. I also agree with guys like Shaheen Sorani that stuff like Dive Down has no place in the deck. It you want to play such kind of things than you might as well play a proactive deck like Izzet Drakes and not a Control deck. That why Im also against playing Drakes.
A few pro players made comments about it and I also think the deck is pulled into a direction I don't necessarily agree with becoming almost more like Midrange deck wanting to ramp up to Niv and slam him down and protect him and all that jazz when that's not what a Control deck is about. When Adrian Sullivan won the GP with his list that was an excellent meta call. People just weren't prepared for it but now the cat is out of the bag and people know what's up and that's why I think it might not be the best way going forward.
Yeah, it seems like the Treasure Map strategy is falling a bit behind in terms of popularity amongst Jeskai players.
The one addition I really like about the France Jeskai list is the mainboard Ixalan's Binding. Being able to catch an opposing Control player off of their Teferi's is a HUGE bonus and advantage for the deck. My concern is about how efficiently or quickly this deck can close the door, especially without the heavy amount of counterspells. I count only 5 Counters which seems a little lite.
Yeah, it seems like the Treasure Map strategy is falling a bit behind in terms of popularity amongst Jeskai players.
The one addition I really like about the France Jeskai list is the mainboard Ixalan's Binding. Being able to catch an opposing Control player off of their Teferi's is a HUGE bonus and advantage for the deck. My concern is about how efficiently or quickly this deck can close the door, especially without the heavy amount of counterspells. I count only 5 Counters which seems a little lite.
I play this list on Arena and I have now hit Gold with it. I can say that closing out a game is actually not problem at all. I actually don't think most even know that you can potentially end the game on the spot. Fight with Fire can be kicked and then copied with Expansion // Explosion which is 20 damage to the face. Obviously you need 11 mana for that but it catches tons of people off guard. I recently played against UB Control deck and he had me on the ropes with an active Azcanta, Teferi and Karn so that "combo" was my only out and so I baited out his counterspells with other stuff before I stole the game from him this way.
The single copy of The Mirari Conjecture can fill the same role as Expansion. It also let's you play the same one twice if you want to do it that way. Also end step Explosion, then a kicked Fight with Fire can also be enough if the opponent played untapped Schocklands or lost life some other way.
Very nice. I've recently come to appreciate Ral, Izzet Viceroy a little bit more lately. It's usually a clean answer to a resolved Niv-Mizzet while also digging deeper into your deck than Teferi does (technically). And the emblem is pretty much game over against any Control deck should his ultimate go off. One of my original Jeskai lists had 2 Ral and 2 Niv-Mizzet and I think I'm going to go back to that configuration for the time being.
Has anyone else not been impressed with Crackling Drake lately? I love the mini-Combo with Deafening Clarion but it never fires off for me anymore. Too many f-ing Conclave Tribunals running around or a simple Lava Coil to char it away. I've been feeling pretty bad about watching my win conditions die or get removed for less mana and losing Board state to decks that I can't afford to lose board state to.
The only red card my set up uses main board is 4x Deafening Clarion. I find that Azorious and Izzet are at odds with each other in the same deck.
My permanents therefore are 3x Teferi and 3x Dawnbringer Angel main.
Hey all...
Long time player on a hiatus - just now coming back to competitive Magic.
Not quite up on exactly what all cards are legal in the current standard format.
Someone shoot me a list worth investing the money into, that I could basically just purchase and start playing.
Been a control player since 1993, so style-wise, I am familiar with these types of decks.
Card suggestions from the new set are also welcome. I really just want to get a proven shell and go from there.
Hit me!
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We would be ruled by a magic Lord...
Currently playing
Legacy UWRMiraclesUWR UWBStone-BladeUWB WUBGRTESWUBGR
I would then look at adding Absorb and maybe even some numbers of Quench, as right now (Arena) there is a flood of very fast red decks and you'll need those points of life.
I would then look at adding Absorb and maybe even some numbers of Quench, as right now (Arena) there is a flood of very fast red decks and you'll need those points of life.
Thanks for the advice... seems reasonable to just start with that French list and work from there. Absorb seems nice. Quench in SB for what matchups? We're not running it main are we? Diet Mana Leak
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We would be ruled by a magic Lord...
Currently playing
Legacy UWRMiraclesUWR UWBStone-BladeUWB WUBGRTESWUBGR
I would then look at adding Absorb and maybe even some numbers of Quench, as right now (Arena) there is a flood of very fast red decks and you'll need those points of life.
Thanks for the advice... seems reasonable to just start with that French list and work from there. Absorb seems nice. Quench in SB for what matchups? We're not running it main are we? Diet Mana Leak
Realistically most losses will be by being overwhelmed in the early game and then never stabilizing so playing around Quench will be tough for the opponent. If they want to delay their good spells for 2 turns they won't have it any easier because by then your card advantage spells, sweepers and hard counters are all active.
anyone been having any success with the deck lately? I know it was a few weeks ago but I won a (relatively) small 14 person store championship 2 weeks ago with this list:
Pretty soft event so I won't go into match by match really. Deck seems soft to enchantments and planeswalkers but drakes and explosion make it easier to close games.
if you have questions on any choices, I'll give them an answer as well as I can
It's a really fun deck and it has the potential to "combo" out a player by copying Expansion with another one and Ral, Storm Conduit in play. I've only needed to do this a few times, but it has come up in some control games where they think it's safe to tap out for a Chemister's Insight.
The mainboard Time Ravelers make the Nexus Matchup decent Game 1.
The hard matchups are Mono-Red and Mono-White Aggro. I've successfully beaten them in Best of 3, but it's hard.
Esper Control is also pretty difficult as well. Their mainboard Thought Erasures suck. Esper Mid-Range is an interesting matchup and can go either way. I've yet to lose against Sultai. Izzet Phoenix blindsided me in the only game I played against it. Mono-Blue is of course a tough matchup, but that's true of all Control.
It's been really good to me and it's amazing to see how many times Shock has been copied via Ral, Storm Conduit's ability in order to snipe opposing Planeswalkers off the board. Shock kills Narset, Parter of Veils AND Thief of Sanity just fine, so it's often included in every game I play.
There can never be a correct build because it all depends on what you want to more reliably beat. Four insights is so clutch in the control mirror because you always make end of turn plays and always make your land drops. Multiple justice strikes are very clean answers to niv which is otherwise the mirror breaker, and expansion is amazing when it’s counterspell during a counter war and eot pressure that might snipe a planeswalker later.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
4 Niv-Mizzet, Parun
1 Rekindling Phoenix
Draw (10)
4 opt
4 treasure map
2 Expansion
Removal (14)
4 deafening clarion
3 teferi, hero of dominaria
3 seal away
2 shock
1 justice strike
1 settle the wreckage
2 Sinister Sabotage
2 Syncopate
1 dive down
1 spell pierce
Lands (25)
12 Buddy
8 Shock
5 Island
The spell pierce, shocks, and phoenix are flex spots I'm testing. I've played shivan fire before and noticed I almost never actually kicked it - shock being able to pick off a teferi or vivien that -3's our niv is relevant, as is just picking off some small creature early on to buy more time to find a clarion or topping up clarion damage to pick off an x/4
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Thanks for being patient.
-- Lugger
My list is all-in on Niv-Mizzet, putting him at 4 copies since I always want to see him. However, he's shown up in my opening hands a little too frequently and I think I'd like to trim him down to 3.
25 lands with 4 Opts is fine. If you aren't running that can trip, it seems like 26 lands is the requirement.
Teferi as a 3-of seems to be the general consensus.
The question I wanted to ask is whether or not running some number of Drakes has proven useful to anyone else? The mini-combo with Deafening Clarion is cute and wins games when it happens, but I dislike having even more of my opponents' removal be live against my deck. I've been contemplating adding 1-2 more Wrath effects and possibly Ral, Izzet Viceroy.
Does anyone have any insight they're willing to share?
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Im not all-in when it comes Standard currently but I have built Jeskai Control with 4 Treasure Maps and 4 Niv on Arena and I agree with you about seeing him a bit too often.
After reading a few things and playing a few events Im actually thinking if it wouldn't be better to just put him into the sideboard completely and go back to being a hard Control deck. The format has definitely adapted and getting value from your Niv has become harder. You are also giving up the typical game 1 advantage that Control decks have by blanking the removal spells that opponents very likely have in their hand. After sideboarding you can play then mindgames because if they take out all their removal they might not have one when Niv shows up. If they leave them in and you aren't all-in on Niv then they have dead cards in deck again.
Niv is very powerful don't get me wrong. He can win games single handily but playing so many juicy expensive targets for removal in the main bothers me and since those are often the only targets for those spells they will also eat them. I also agree with guys like Shaheen Sorani that stuff like Dive Down has no place in the deck. It you want to play such kind of things than you might as well play a proactive deck like Izzet Drakes and not a Control deck. That why Im also against playing Drakes.
A few pro players made comments about it and I also think the deck is pulled into a direction I don't necessarily agree with becoming almost more like Midrange deck wanting to ramp up to Niv and slam him down and protect him and all that jazz when that's not what a Control deck is about. When Adrian Sullivan won the GP with his list that was an excellent meta call. People just weren't prepared for it but now the cat is out of the bag and people know what's up and that's why I think it might not be the best way going forward.
3 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
1 Ral, Izzet Viceroy
Sorcery (7)
1 Lava Coil
4 Deafening Clarion
2 Fight with Fire
Instant (19)
4 Revitalize
1 Blink of an Eye
1 Syncopate
1 Negate
3 Ionize
4 Chemister's Insight
2 Settle the Wreckage
3 Expansion // Explosion
2 Seal Away
1 Ixalan's Binding
1 The Mirari Conjecture
Land (26)
4 Steam Vents
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Clifftop Retreat
3 Island
3 Plains
2 Lava Coil
1 Seal Away
1 Negate
1 Ixalan's Binding
1 Cleansing Nova
2 Star of Extinction
1 Niv-Mizzet, Parun
3 Legion Warboss
2 Lyra Dawnbringer
1 Invoke the Divine
The one addition I really like about the France Jeskai list is the mainboard Ixalan's Binding. Being able to catch an opposing Control player off of their Teferi's is a HUGE bonus and advantage for the deck. My concern is about how efficiently or quickly this deck can close the door, especially without the heavy amount of counterspells. I count only 5 Counters which seems a little lite.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I play this list on Arena and I have now hit Gold with it. I can say that closing out a game is actually not problem at all. I actually don't think most even know that you can potentially end the game on the spot. Fight with Fire can be kicked and then copied with Expansion // Explosion which is 20 damage to the face. Obviously you need 11 mana for that but it catches tons of people off guard. I recently played against UB Control deck and he had me on the ropes with an active Azcanta, Teferi and Karn so that "combo" was my only out and so I baited out his counterspells with other stuff before I stole the game from him this way.
The single copy of The Mirari Conjecture can fill the same role as Expansion. It also let's you play the same one twice if you want to do it that way. Also end step Explosion, then a kicked Fight with Fire can also be enough if the opponent played untapped Schocklands or lost life some other way.
Has anyone else not been impressed with Crackling Drake lately? I love the mini-Combo with Deafening Clarion but it never fires off for me anymore. Too many f-ing Conclave Tribunals running around or a simple Lava Coil to char it away. I've been feeling pretty bad about watching my win conditions die or get removed for less mana and losing Board state to decks that I can't afford to lose board state to.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
My permanents therefore are 3x Teferi and 3x Dawnbringer Angel main.
C Long Live Eldrazi C
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I was going to try Dovin, Grand Arbiter to blunt aggro/burn a bit, but other than that I wasnt seeing much to mess with.
Spirits
Long time player on a hiatus - just now coming back to competitive Magic.
Not quite up on exactly what all cards are legal in the current standard format.
Someone shoot me a list worth investing the money into, that I could basically just purchase and start playing.
Been a control player since 1993, so style-wise, I am familiar with these types of decks.
Card suggestions from the new set are also welcome. I really just want to get a proven shell and go from there.
Hit me!
Currently playing
Legacy
UWRMiraclesUWR
UWBStone-BladeUWB
WUBGRTESWUBGR
Modern
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
URBGrixis ControlURB
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/proven-standard/798841-post-guilds-of-ravnica-jeskai-control?page=4#c84
I would then look at adding Absorb and maybe even some numbers of Quench, as right now (Arena) there is a flood of very fast red decks and you'll need those points of life.
Spirits
Thanks for the advice... seems reasonable to just start with that French list and work from there. Absorb seems nice. Quench in SB for what matchups? We're not running it main are we? Diet Mana Leak
Currently playing
Legacy
UWRMiraclesUWR
UWBStone-BladeUWB
WUBGRTESWUBGR
Modern
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
URBGrixis ControlURB
I haven't thought about updates to my list but I would definitely say that Quench has mainboard potential and the synergy with Teferi, Hero of Dominaria is not be overlooked. Getting to play him and then still being able to snipe stuff like The Eldest Reborn, Conclave Tribunal, Ixalan's Binding, Vraska's Contempt or stuff like Vivien Reid is huge.
Realistically most losses will be by being overwhelmed in the early game and then never stabilizing so playing around Quench will be tough for the opponent. If they want to delay their good spells for 2 turns they won't have it any easier because by then your card advantage spells, sweepers and hard counters are all active.
2x search for azcanta
2x crackling drake
4x deafening clarion
2x cleansing nova
3x absorb
3x ionize
1x essence scatter
1x disdainful stroke
4x justice strike
4x chemister's insight
4x hallowed fountain
4x steam vents
4x sacred foundry
4x sulfur falls
4x glacial fortress
4x clifftop retreat
2x island
1x plains
2x lyra dawnbringer
2x seal away
2x lava coil
1x settle the wreckage
1x shalai, voice of plenty
1x disdainful stroke
2x invoke the divine
2x negate
Pretty soft event so I won't go into match by match really. Deck seems soft to enchantments and planeswalkers but drakes and explosion make it easier to close games.
if you have questions on any choices, I'll give them an answer as well as I can
3x Teferi, Time Raveler
3x Ral, Storm Conduit
4x Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
1x Ugin, the Ineffable
Instants/Sorceries (22)
4x Shock
2x Dovin's Veto
4x Expansion // Explosion
4x Absorb
3x Deafening Clarion
2x Chemister's Insight
3x Ral's Outburst
2x Search for Azcanta
Lands (26)
4x Steam Vents
4x Sulfur Falls
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Glacial Fortress
3x Sacred Foundry
3x Clifftop Retreat
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Mountain
2x Spell Pierce
2x Dovin's Veto
3x Lava Coil
1x Teferi, Time Raveler
1x Deafening Clarion
2x Invoke the Divine
2x Cleansing Nova
2x Niv-Mizzet, Parun
It's a really fun deck and it has the potential to "combo" out a player by copying Expansion with another one and Ral, Storm Conduit in play. I've only needed to do this a few times, but it has come up in some control games where they think it's safe to tap out for a Chemister's Insight.
The mainboard Time Ravelers make the Nexus Matchup decent Game 1.
The hard matchups are Mono-Red and Mono-White Aggro. I've successfully beaten them in Best of 3, but it's hard.
Esper Control is also pretty difficult as well. Their mainboard Thought Erasures suck. Esper Mid-Range is an interesting matchup and can go either way. I've yet to lose against Sultai. Izzet Phoenix blindsided me in the only game I played against it. Mono-Blue is of course a tough matchup, but that's true of all Control.
It's been really good to me and it's amazing to see how many times Shock has been copied via Ral, Storm Conduit's ability in order to snipe opposing Planeswalkers off the board. Shock kills Narset, Parter of Veils AND Thief of Sanity just fine, so it's often included in every game I play.
Best of luck to y'all!
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager