MVPs of the night: Hostage Taker & Contraband Kingpin. Those 2 cards really boost my aggro match up to the next level. Kingpin is basically a brick wall against mono red or any decks trying to go wide with x/1 creatures and Hostage Taker can then start taking their strongest creature until it's time for TSG and Gearhulk to finish the job.
IMHO if you're playing U/B control you have to play 4 contempt main deck. The card is that good and combined with Gearhulk is just straight up insane. I also have 1 doomfall and 1 vona's hunger in my SB to counter Carnage Tyrant which otherwise we have no answer for. I choose River's rebuke over bontu's last reckoning because rebuke can also help the deck (somewhat) against tokens and troublesome enchantments. My newest sideboard experiment is the Sorcerous Spyglass which I put in there to counter dangerous cards with activation that the deck can't interact with (Arguel's blood feast, Profane Procession for example). Lastly, I'm still switching back and forth between deadeye tracker or crook of condemnation. I like the idea of exploring but crook is just so much faster in dealing with graveyard recursion. I would like an opinion on this.
Anyways, I think this is the deck that I'll be playing at least until Dominaria. I''m having fun playing it and it is just a 50-50 deck against most of the current top decks.
Hi Andi... Yup, you're good to post that here. It's an interesting idea... However, is the white splash pretty much for the sweepers and Cast Out? At that point, is it worth running a more consistent mana base and going down to two colours? And no, I'm not just saying that because I love playing UB!!
I agree with @JonInWherever: UU at 3 ,BB at 3, and WW at 4/5 is pretty ambitious. I like esper, since I love hard sweepers (probably more than I should!)
I think the key to esper is making it a UXy deck. Your deck seems to be UWb, and I'd like to see i there is a possibility of eliminating all the BB cards.
Lets see if I can offer some unsolicited advice. Since you have 5 hard sweepers, perhaps the essence extraction could become a moment of craving to ease the color requirements. I don't think the extra damage and the extra life matter enough to justify the extra color requirement. Vs grixis and 1-threat-at-a-time midrange, procession is a beating. You have 3 open slots in the board. Perhaps use 2 of those for procession? Also, procession is fundamentally a triple contempt, and has less stringent color requirements, so you could even have a split (1 procession in the main, replacing a contempt, 1 procession in the board).
White splash is great. But i dont needed the cards for approach like opt, supreme or censor. Vs. red from side: 3x AotC and i have more time.
If here a thread for? Thanks.
I've been trying to build a good esper list too for the sweeper, but that mana base, yikes! I finally settled for River's Rebuke instead of trying to force the mana.
I've been playing with this but I think I want a lost legacy in the board but I can't decide what to cut, I'm leaning toward a vizier because it hasn't been performing real well and lost legacy answers carnage tyrant more cleanly.
Went 3-1 on Friday with a list that had 1 Chupa, 2 Poisoner, 2 God, 3 Gearhulk. Opponents were RG Dinos (lost in 2 after flood then screw), UG Merfolk (2-0), Abzan something (2-0, no idea what he was trying to do - he ramped, cast one Approach, and then carried on ramping and shuffling) and BW Vamps (2-1 in some really good games) Can't remember exact list, and I'm on mobile... Anyway, I also ran one Arch of Orazca in the mana base and was pleasantly surprised at that. Also, at the suggestion of a friend, I threw in a single mainboard Mastermind's Acquisition, and that was pretty interesting - being able to pull out my sweeper from the board , or hunt for the card needed in a given situation, was pretty good. Like Tiberius, I'm also toying with Lost Legacy, to shut down Approach decks as well as uncounterable annoyances.
Cards that we have to start considering are things that can remove enchantments (possible commit//memory or consign//oblivion, unless someone has a better card suggestion). I've been facing more and more WB tokens in mtgo leagues, and while anointed procession can be reliably countered, profane procession being 3 mana is harder to counter reliably. And a resolved profane procession is almost lights out. I got out from under that by boarding out my scarab gods and playing my SB walkers (Nicol B and Angrath), but I think having some way to deal qith resolved enchantment sin the 75 is important.
This is what I'm running right now. I think I agree on the 4x Contempt idea, and will likely be cutting the Chupas for the 4th Contempt and 2nd Craving (still leaving Craving #3 in the side). I don't think Essence Extraction is necessary, but I'm still toying with SB as I'm not really sure about the local meta yet, although I am probably going to try cutting a Negate and Duress for 2x Lost Legacy. I just like to run a lot of hate for the control mirrors but I think it's already overboard.
edit: The more I think about it, the more I like the idea about the 1x Mastermind's Acquisition. Might just cut the 2x Supreme Will and add 1x Negate/Illumination #4, although the versatility of Will is great. So many choices and so few slots. I really want to add W for more options, especially sweepers/Authority, but I hate 3-color manabases in Standard.
River's Rebuke? Bounces the enchantment to hand (assuming you have a counter ready), and wipes the tokens too... Another option could be Sorcerous Spyglass. But, it was difficult for me to deal with on Friday too. The only way I got it to go was waiting for my opponent to tap out for the third exile at my EOT, it flipped, so in my end step I hit with Field of Ruin. Walkers as win-cons may be the best bet. I'm running a single Lost Legacy in the board (and a Mastermind's Acquisition main, just in case) as proactive options, plus 3 Negates in the 75. Trying to work out what to pull from the sideboard for Lili right now - a Duress, an Aetherborn, or the Contempt most likely. Oh, and I want to squeeze a Nezahal in as well, but that may be getting greedy...
I went 2-2 at FNM last night. I lost to a U/B midrange due to manascrew and got absolutely destroyed by a U/G Fish deck. I mean, it wasn't even close. Is merfolk a bad match up for this deck? I can't keep up with the stream of creatures, can't handle the deeproot waters and Kopala, Warden of Waves. Does anyone have any advice on how to adjust my deck to better handle fish?
An early Deeproot Waters is a problem, but the rest of the deck should be a breeze. Even then, it shouldn't be a bad matchup. Once you run them out of gas, it's pretty hard to lose. After going to sideboard, the rest of the match is easy mode. Kopala, however, is brutal. I think you just can't let it resolve or you have to let it be one of the last threats played on a picked-apart board. Otherwise Kopala just wrecks you. UB midrange has less of a problem with Kopala, but it being on the board is not where you want to be.
I went 2-2 at FNM last night. I lost to a U/B midrange due to manascrew and got absolutely destroyed by a U/G Fish deck. I mean, it wasn't even close. Is merfolk a bad match up for this deck? I can't keep up with the stream of creatures, can't handle the deeproot waters and Kopala, Warden of Waves. Does anyone have any advice on how to adjust my deck to better handle fish?
An early Deeproot Waters is a problem, but the rest of the deck should be a breeze. Even then, it shouldn't be a bad matchup. Once you run them out of gas, it's pretty hard to lose. After going to sideboard, the rest of the match is easy mode. Kopala, however, is brutal. I think you just can't let it resolve or you have to let it be one of the last threats played on a picked-apart board. Otherwise Kopala just wrecks you. UB midrange has less of a problem with Kopala, but it being on the board is not where you want to be.
Kopala is the problem, IMO. I think turns 2 through 5, you have to prioritize saving counters for it so you aren't stuck with unplayable removal. Also, I think you have to be playing Golden Demise or Yahenni's Expertise. I'm on 2 GD SB right now, because of lower cost, but debating going to YE anyway for max effectiness. If they have the counter, they have it. You need ways to clear the hexproof tokens, as well as both killing Kopala under most circumstances.
Speaking of my experience with GB/x, Golden Demise can be really poor against the better starts from Merfolk when we're on the draw. Yahenni's Expertise is definitely better, but it's also on the slow side. That said, I don't think there are better options. I would probably run a 1/1 split between them if I have the slots.
Hey all, I've been jamming a ton of mtgo, and I'm coming around to rebuilding UB control. My recent 5-0 with monsters left me wondering about the current iteration of control decks. Having never lost to a control variant on mtgo this season I've observed some issues. Early 1 for 1, but no real way to close out the game fast enough, the adaptation of 4 Gearhulks is very good! The Scarab God while excellent requires set up, and in a lot of matches you don't have the time to actual spend 9 mana in time to catch up.
I'm in the camp of Turbo flipping Azcanta, and I'm going to start by not cutting Censor and instead will move towards 4 Hieroglyphic Illumination. In team testing, the UB control decks I lose to are those that are able to flip the Azcanta early, thereby turning on their CA early.
Due to the the meta being aggro dominated I think that's a place I want to start. This coming weekend will show us what the real meta will shape to be, but that still means we have to try and find the best shell regardless. My other concept is too SB into a creature package like this:
Maybe 1 of the Elder Dino if the mirror becomes important. Anyhow, this is a my first phase of testing so, I'll get back you all with some actual results soon. I'll post a list in a few hours.
I would not play hostage taker nor aetherborn. 4 toughness is way more toughness than 3 in terms of dodging removal and/or coming out of combat alive. I'd suggest Contraband Kingpin. Specially if you are straight UB, you don't want to trade your contempts with scrapheap scrounger, as you'd rather save that for hazoret or chandra, so you need another way to deal with the robot, and kingpin is a far better response than aetherborn.
Secondly, hostage taker has the same issues you mentioned with Scarab G. If you want to play it and activate in one turn, you probably need 8-ish mana (most things you'd really want to steal are 4 mana). If you were weary of saving 9 mana for scabs, you should also be weary of saving 8 mana for hostage taker.
This is good commenting! Thank you, I did sit and test my main aganist mono red today and found that UB Control felt favored against mono red G1, and after SB it got better.
This goes in tandem with what I've been seeing on MTGO, namely; Red moving towards RB aggro to combat the efficiency of the B removal. My SB plan was geared at becoming a UB Midrange deck, but that doesn't fit the current meta and I've since left that aside.
Here's my main (Not to different than what we've seen)
It's possible that 3x Search is incorrect but I foresee the mirror becoming more and more common. It's also possible that Glimmer of Genius is too good to not auto include but that's always the card I got stuck with against red based aggro. Also, I don't like having mana issues, so for me having 8 cycling cards matters for my playstyle (I've played a ton of UW approach and UW cycling), I've come to appreciate the flexibility of these cards.
A card that's on my radar is Reaver Ambush out of the Sb to beat scroungers and externalize creatures. Yahenni's Expertise and Golden Demise may merit SB slots is GW aggro and GW/x tokens are as good as I think they will wind up being.
Answers to BW/x tokens is another issue, so we need to pick and chose what to control this weekend.
I've been running a 2/2 split between Illumination and Glimmer, and that hasn't felt too bad. Going to switch the Aetherborn to Kingpins too, although the deathtouch from the Aetherborn was nice. However, running a couple of Dire Fleet Poisoners in the main work pretty well as unexpected removal so far. I think Golden Demise is likely a preference over Expertise, as you can drop it a turn sooner, which is pretty key against the aggro decks.
There was an interesting article on CFB this week, including one that basically said that cutting Censor was actually a good plan. I agree - I've not been running any, and haven't missed them. It's allowed me to get more threats and answers in there.
I love Efro's deck, and the 3-2 glimmer/illumination split + 2 commit is a big part of it. Vs Red, VContempt is great, but having the 4 slot clogged is tricky. I used to run 3 contempt and 4 glimmer, but inverting the numbers and having 2 illuminations really helps unclog the hand. Commit is a great card, as many midrange threats generally gain value upon etb (think Scabs at 9 mana, vraska, Liliana, and others) so countering is much better than removing in these matchups (specially w/ shufle effects like field of ruin). I think he got a pretty good division of numbers.
Absolutely! Having four decks in the top 16 was great, as it allows us to see the little changes between them. There were also a few performing decks in a couple of other competitions over the weekend, and in leagues (including one today with 3 God 3 Hulk). I'm still a fan of Mastermind's Acquisition as a 1-of, and there was one list I saw that ran a single Insidious Will! One other list I saw had pulled the large 4-drop draw spells for a play set of Opt, and only one each of Glimmer and Illumination.
The one thing that I'm a little surprised about is the lack of Arch of Orazca, even from the side. It's an uncounterable, largely unremovable card drawing engine. Getting City's Blessing isn't hard.
Assuming that the meta will be full of G/R midrange/monsters with phoenix and carnage tyrant from the SB what do you guys think about adding Doomfall in our 75? I know that it's a nonbo with Gearhulk but the ability to snag phoenix, TSG, Tyrant, annointed procession and even profane procession on the play is very good I think.
Absolutely! Having four decks in the top 16 was great, as it allows us to see the little changes between them. There were also a few performing decks in a couple of other competitions over the weekend, and in leagues (including one today with 3 God 3 Hulk). I'm still a fan of Mastermind's Acquisition as a 1-of, and there was one list I saw that ran a single Insidious Will! One other list I saw had pulled the large 4-drop draw spells for a play set of Opt, and only one each of Glimmer and Illumination.
The one thing that I'm a little surprised about is the lack of Arch of Orazca, even from the side. It's an uncounterable, largely unremovable card drawing engine. Getting City's Blessing isn't hard.
I've been running Arch in lieu of the 3rd Field, and I love it. It's really hard to lose with Azcanta and Arch running.
Absolutely! Having four decks in the top 16 was great, as it allows us to see the little changes between them. There were also a few performing decks in a couple of other competitions over the weekend, and in leagues (including one today with 3 God 3 Hulk). I'm still a fan of Mastermind's Acquisition as a 1-of, and there was one list I saw that ran a single Insidious Will! One other list I saw had pulled the large 4-drop draw spells for a play set of Opt, and only one each of Glimmer and Illumination.
The one thing that I'm a little surprised about is the lack of Arch of Orazca, even from the side. It's an uncounterable, largely unremovable card drawing engine. Getting City's Blessing isn't hard.
I've been running Arch in lieu of the 3rd Field, and I love it. It's really hard to lose with Azcanta and Arch running.
If you are looking to run both you have to have like 10 lands in play, though, right? Isn't it a little excessive? I'd rather add a search for azcanta or add another field of ruin.
It's actually not that hard. I mean, by the time you're dropping Gearhulk you're on 7-8 permanents (at least 6 land, ideally a Search, and the Gearhulk). Run a couple of other permanents (eg post board) like Aetherborn, Hostage Taker, Chupas, etc, even Scarab God and one activation makes 10. Then you're seeing six cards a turn, and the game gets locked up pretty quickly.
I also saw a list that had two Search and one Treasure Map - that's also not a bad option for getting Ascend, ramping, and getting more card advantage.
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Here is my list:
2 The Scarab God
3 Torrential Gearhulk
Spell:
3 Censor
3 Essence Scatter
1 Negate
4 Disallow
4 Fatal Push
4 Vraska's Contempt
2 Moment of Craving
1 Essence Extraction
3 Hieroglyphic Illumination
2 Glimmer of Genius
2 Search for Azcanta
4 Fetid Pools
4 Drowned Catacomb
2 Submerged Boneyard
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Ifnir Deadlands
1 Ipnu Rivulet
2 Field of Ruin
5 Swamp
5 Island
2 Negate
1 Duress
1 Doomfall
1 Vona's Hunger
1 River's Rebuke
3 Contraband Kingpin
2 Hostage Taker
2 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Deadeye Tracker
MVPs of the night: Hostage Taker & Contraband Kingpin. Those 2 cards really boost my aggro match up to the next level. Kingpin is basically a brick wall against mono red or any decks trying to go wide with x/1 creatures and Hostage Taker can then start taking their strongest creature until it's time for TSG and Gearhulk to finish the job.
IMHO if you're playing U/B control you have to play 4 contempt main deck. The card is that good and combined with Gearhulk is just straight up insane. I also have 1 doomfall and 1 vona's hunger in my SB to counter Carnage Tyrant which otherwise we have no answer for. I choose River's rebuke over bontu's last reckoning because rebuke can also help the deck (somewhat) against tokens and troublesome enchantments. My newest sideboard experiment is the Sorcerous Spyglass which I put in there to counter dangerous cards with activation that the deck can't interact with (Arguel's blood feast, Profane Procession for example). Lastly, I'm still switching back and forth between deadeye tracker or crook of condemnation. I like the idea of exploring but crook is just so much faster in dealing with graveyard recursion. I would like an opinion on this.
Anyways, I think this is the deck that I'll be playing at least until Dominaria. I''m having fun playing it and it is just a 50-50 deck against most of the current top decks.
I think the key to esper is making it a UXy deck. Your deck seems to be UWb, and I'd like to see i there is a possibility of eliminating all the BB cards.
Lets see if I can offer some unsolicited advice. Since you have 5 hard sweepers, perhaps the essence extraction could become a moment of craving to ease the color requirements. I don't think the extra damage and the extra life matter enough to justify the extra color requirement. Vs grixis and 1-threat-at-a-time midrange, procession is a beating. You have 3 open slots in the board. Perhaps use 2 of those for procession? Also, procession is fundamentally a triple contempt, and has less stringent color requirements, so you could even have a split (1 procession in the main, replacing a contempt, 1 procession in the board).
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Evolving Wilds
4 Fetid Pools
2 Field of Ruin
1 Ifnir Deadlands
3 Ipnu Rivulet
4 Island
5 Swamp
2 The Scarab God
3 Torrential Gearhulk
4 Censor
2 Consign/Oblivion
4 Disallow
4 Essence Scatter
4 Fatal Push
4 Hieroglyphic Illumination
3 Vraska's Contempt
2 Search for Azcanta
3 Deadeye Tracker
3 Duress
1 Vraska's Contempt
1 Moment of Craving
3 Negate
1 Arguel's Blood Fast
2 Vizier of Many Faces
3 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Ravenous Chupacabra
4 Censor
3 Essence Scatter
4 Disallow
2 Supreme Will
3 Hieroglyphic Illumination
1 Pull from Tomorrow
4 Fatal Push
1 Moment of Craving
3 Vraska's Contempt
1 Consign//Oblivion
2 Search for Azcanta
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Fetid Pools
2 Field of Ruin
2 Evolving Wilds
7 Island
6 Swamp
1 Nezahal, Primal Tide
1 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
2 Archfiend of Ifnir
4 Negate
1 Moment of Craving
4 Duress
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
edit: The more I think about it, the more I like the idea about the 1x Mastermind's Acquisition. Might just cut the 2x Supreme Will and add 1x Negate/Illumination #4, although the versatility of Will is great. So many choices and so few slots. I really want to add W for more options, especially sweepers/Authority, but I hate 3-color manabases in Standard.
BG The Rock
2 Dire Fleet Poisoner
1 Ravenous Chupacabra
2 The Scarab God
3 Torrential Gearhulk
Spells (25)
4 Fatal Push
2 Essence Scatter
3 Moment of Craving
1 Negate
4 Disallow
1 Reaver Ambush
2 Supreme Will
2 Glimmer of Genius
2 Hieroglyphic Illumination
1 Mastermind's Acquisition
3 Vraska's Contempt
2 Search for Azcanta
Lands (25)
3 Aether Hub
1 Arch of Orazca
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Fetid Pools
2 Field of Ruin
5 Island
6 Swamp
1 Deadeye Tracker
3 Duress
3 Gifted Aetherborn
2 Negate
1 Golden Demise
1 Lost Legacy
1 Reaver Ambush
2 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
1 Vraska's Contempt
Here is my (updated) list:
2 The Scarab God
3 Torrential Gearhulk
Spell:
3 Censor
3 Essence Scatter
1 Negate
4 Disallow
4 Fatal Push
4 Vraska's Contempt
2 Moment of Craving
1 Essence Extraction
3 Hieroglyphic Illumination
2 Glimmer of Genius
2 Search for Azcanta
4 Fetid Pools
4 Drowned Catacomb
2 Submerged Boneyard
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Ifnir Deadlands
1 Ipnu Rivulet
2 Field of Ruin
5 Swamp
5 Island
2 Negate
3 Duress
1 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
1 Vona's Hunger
1 River's Rebuke
3 Contraband Kingpin
2 Hostage Taker
1 Deadeye Tracker
1 Lost Legacy
Kopala is the problem, IMO. I think turns 2 through 5, you have to prioritize saving counters for it so you aren't stuck with unplayable removal. Also, I think you have to be playing Golden Demise or Yahenni's Expertise. I'm on 2 GD SB right now, because of lower cost, but debating going to YE anyway for max effectiness. If they have the counter, they have it. You need ways to clear the hexproof tokens, as well as both killing Kopala under most circumstances.
I'm in the camp of Turbo flipping Azcanta, and I'm going to start by not cutting Censor and instead will move towards 4 Hieroglyphic Illumination. In team testing, the UB control decks I lose to are those that are able to flip the Azcanta early, thereby turning on their CA early.
Due to the the meta being aggro dominated I think that's a place I want to start. This coming weekend will show us what the real meta will shape to be, but that still means we have to try and find the best shell regardless. My other concept is too SB into a creature package like this:
3 Gifted Aetherborn
Maybe 1 of the Elder Dino if the mirror becomes important. Anyhow, this is a my first phase of testing so, I'll get back you all with some actual results soon. I'll post a list in a few hours.
Secondly, hostage taker has the same issues you mentioned with Scarab G. If you want to play it and activate in one turn, you probably need 8-ish mana (most things you'd really want to steal are 4 mana). If you were weary of saving 9 mana for scabs, you should also be weary of saving 8 mana for hostage taker.
This goes in tandem with what I've been seeing on MTGO, namely; Red moving towards RB aggro to combat the efficiency of the B removal. My SB plan was geared at becoming a UB Midrange deck, but that doesn't fit the current meta and I've since left that aside.
Here's my main (Not to different than what we've seen)
2 The Scarab God
4 Censor
4 Disallow
2 Essence Scatter
4 Fatal Push
3 Moment of Craving
4 Vrasaka's Contempt
4 Hieroglyphic Illumination
3 Search for Azcanta
It's possible that 3x Search is incorrect but I foresee the mirror becoming more and more common. It's also possible that Glimmer of Genius is too good to not auto include but that's always the card I got stuck with against red based aggro. Also, I don't like having mana issues, so for me having 8 cycling cards matters for my playstyle (I've played a ton of UW approach and UW cycling), I've come to appreciate the flexibility of these cards.
A card that's on my radar is Reaver Ambush out of the Sb to beat scroungers and externalize creatures. Yahenni's Expertise and Golden Demise may merit SB slots is GW aggro and GW/x tokens are as good as I think they will wind up being.
Answers to BW/x tokens is another issue, so we need to pick and chose what to control this weekend.
The card replaces itself and nets +1 card for 4 mana. Not a good rate.
C Long Live Eldrazi C
There was an interesting article on CFB this week, including one that basically said that cutting Censor was actually a good plan. I agree - I've not been running any, and haven't missed them. It's allowed me to get more threats and answers in there.
The one thing that I'm a little surprised about is the lack of Arch of Orazca, even from the side. It's an uncounterable, largely unremovable card drawing engine. Getting City's Blessing isn't hard.
I've been running Arch in lieu of the 3rd Field, and I love it. It's really hard to lose with Azcanta and Arch running.
I also saw a list that had two Search and one Treasure Map - that's also not a bad option for getting Ascend, ramping, and getting more card advantage.