Im confused by "Shaman being good against moment of craving" So you bring in shaman against esper and esper sides in or leaves craving in against this deck? How is the card good against wilderness reclamation, or is it just that it is good against the deck? Im pretty sure I get what your saying, just clarifying.
Immolation Shaman is good vs. Moment of Craving because it's an x/3. Esper will often board in Craving or leave them in, depending on their configuration.
It is also good against Wilderness Reclamation if they're trying to Nexus of Fate you. Generally, they have to stick a Search for Azcanta and flip it for a hard lock. That's hard to do without getting Shaman off the table. They have to find a Blink of an Eye to bounce it off the table or kill you with Hydras and looped Nexuses. Basically what you do with the card is make them jump through hoops to kill you. They have a moderately high fail rate when jumping through said hoops.
The Immolation Shaman dealing 1 damage when they activate Search for azcanta as a land is enough to hold it down? I guess my real question is, this only deals damage when activated abilities are used right? I feel like I've seen different wording on cards to mean the same thing, so I'm wondering if this is an oracle update or I'm remembering something improperly.
Im confused by "Shaman being good against moment of craving" So you bring in shaman against esper and esper sides in or leaves craving in against this deck? How is the card good against wilderness reclamation, or is it just that it is good against the deck? Im pretty sure I get what your saying, just clarifying.
Immolation Shaman is good vs. Moment of Craving because it's an x/3. Esper will often board in Craving or leave them in, depending on their configuration.
It is also good against Wilderness Reclamation if they're trying to Nexus of Fate you. Generally, they have to stick a Search for Azcanta and flip it for a hard lock. That's hard to do without getting Shaman off the table. They have to find a Blink of an Eye to bounce it off the table or kill you with Hydras and looped Nexuses. Basically what you do with the card is make them jump through hoops to kill you. They have a moderately high fail rate when jumping through said hoops.
The Immolation Shaman dealing 1 damage when they activate Search for azcanta as a land is enough to hold it down? I guess my real question is, this only deals damage when activated abilities are used right? I feel like I've seen different wording on cards to mean the same thing, so I'm wondering if this is an oracle update or I'm remembering something improperly.
it can pump for a total of 4... seems ok. question is what do you take out.
The Immolation Shaman dealing 1 damage when they activate Search for azcanta as a land is enough to hold it down? I guess my real question is, this only deals damage when activated abilities are used right? I feel like I've seen different wording on cards to mean the same thing, so I'm wondering if this is an oracle update or I'm remembering something improperly.
If things have gone well, they'll be at a low life total. It doesn't take much. Often you'll put them to a number less than 5 and have to pass the turn. Shaman, compared to a slower card, gives them fewer outs with Fogs etc.
whelp did it again, pivoted to gruul in diamind tier 1 and it did it's 3-0 thing. Okay I'm open for different variants, between the warrior, Pelt Collector, and Ferox versions I'm wondering what you are all having more success with. Gruul wasn't exactly killing it for in in diamond tier 4-2 but in tier 1 I got some good match ups and smashed. I used the same list I posted, how has your all's testing gone?
I used the same list I posted, how has your all's testing gone?
Haven't played a lick of arena at all this season. I'll get to it this week. There's no modern paper tourneys for me to prep for.
I played the Cleveland Classic on sunday and went 4-3, losing my last round -- which would've vaulted me into top 32 but outside of Top 16 since my breakers were trash. I played the event after losing my Day 2 win-and-in in the Open
Guys, if that new Domri is legit, we're going to get a massive boost. A 3-color planeswalker that does four relevant things (anthem, ramp, uncounterability, repeatable creature removal)?
This card is very similar to Dromoka's Command. It plays great on the play, allowing your 2 drops to push through damage and function very similar to Fleecemane Lion and co. of the past. So what's the draw back here? It's sorcery speed, meaning that you're getting set up to get blown out. You can't realistically play this card into open mana. We're already tight on removal spells and, in a lot of cases, Lava Coil will be just as good if not better.
At first I was pretty cold on new Domri. Why? Well, I was spoiled with Domri the first time around -- Domri Rade was amazing and was a staple in RG as long as it was in standard. This 3cmc guy though? It just fights, ramps, and pumps. Is that good? I think, in a deck where the pilot is trying to deploy big, fast, and evasive creatures, being able to cut dead removal for cards that fulfill multiple purposes is great. I don't want to run a bunch of bad cards either. I want to be lean and efficient, playing to the board hard and not letting up. Domri lets you do that while having escape valves to creatures that threaten to take over the game. Need to snag that Thief of Sanity? Slam a Domri and go to work. Need to ramp to 4cmc to get out Phoenix? We're served here.
I think Domri is an excellent roleplayer in a RG Aggro deck, maybe just not the staple that Domri Rade was in the past.
This strikes me as a card I would have to play a lot with to figure out if it's good or not.
This card is great against control and, for 3cmc, might be quite an excellent slot for against Grixis and Esper.
Doesn't have evasion. Nope. Maybe if we go big enough with Banefires and other big mana plays.
This card just isn't very good.
Illharg and Neheb -- I'm not linking because theses guys aren't really worth talking about. They die easily and require a whole turn to get going. Illharg requires for you to have fatties in hand while Neheb needs 4cmc up front. There is going to be so much removal flying around that, for as long as we have a big standard, these guys probably won't be that great.
These guys are also not that great. Kiora has some elements of Pestermite/Deceiver Exarch in that you can get some mana back but it's probably not worth it. We don't play that many 4 power creatures.
Samut is double haste. You're paying 4cmc to buy the same thing twice. We can get that already in Rhythm of the Wild.
I actually have high hope for these guys as SB role players. If the format is about protecting walkers, Vraksa could be great. If the format is about going wide and then finding a piece of evasion, Gruul War Chant just might be excellent. They have somewhat redundant abilities, so I doubt that we'll play both in the board at the same time. But I can envision a world in which we play one of these puppies.
Let's talk about removal since it has such a major impact on how we build our decks:
Ok, this is bad news bears for us. Despark is insane against Rekindling Phoenix, our stickiest threat. Tyrant's Scorn is more copies of Cast Down, already a premier revmoal spell against us. Will we be able to survive a format like this? Ok, well I think there are ways to combat things like this. Cards that come to mind are Regisaur Alpha or even something dumb like Tibalt, Rakish Instigator (I told you it was dumb). Better yet, you can slam this familiar guy:
Hell. Yeah.
Make dragons, turn your PWs into dragons, I'm all about this. It plays excellently with RG walkers lower down the curve -- mainly both Domris. Having a few extra walkers handy means that Sarkhan's uptick will have effective haste. Unfortunately, the dragons die to Find // Finality but my suspicion is that Grixis and Esper may make quick work of whatever is left of Sultai.
Thrashing Brontodon is bad but I just got sick of drawing Warbosses against a bunch of Chainwhirlers. We're back on Chaos Bringer since we want walkers that cantrip in the face of spot removal for walkers and we want walkers in play so that when we play Sarkhan we can immediately attack for 4.
I think kiora is alright, it just can't go in your a-typical stomp deck...
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If you, like me, play Pelt Collector, Growth-chamber Guardian and Zhur-Taa Goblin, Evolution Sage becomes a really interesting 3-drop. It even bolsters whatever version of Domri you're playing. From turn 4, you're basically laying down an anthem each turn. And the Sage itself has 3 power, so it's not like it grinds your aggro plan to a halt.
This card is very similar to Dromoka's Command. It plays great on the play, allowing your 2 drops to push through damage and function very similar to Fleecemane Lion and co. of the past. So what's the draw back here? It's sorcery speed, meaning that you're getting set up to get blown out. You can't realistically play this card into open mana. We're already tight on removal spells and, in a lot of cases, Lava Coil will be just as good if not better.
At first I was pretty cold on new Domri. Why? Well, I was spoiled with Domri the first time around -- Domri Rade was amazing and was a staple in RG as long as it was in standard. This 3cmc guy though? It just fights, ramps, and pumps. Is that good? I think, in a deck where the pilot is trying to deploy big, fast, and evasive creatures, being able to cut dead removal for cards that fulfill multiple purposes is great. I don't want to run a bunch of bad cards either. I want to be lean and efficient, playing to the board hard and not letting up. Domri lets you do that while having escape valves to creatures that threaten to take over the game. Need to snag that Thief of Sanity? Slam a Domri and go to work. Need to ramp to 4cmc to get out Phoenix? We're served here.
I think Domri is an excellent roleplayer in a RG Aggro deck, maybe just not the staple that Domri Rade was in the past.
This strikes me as a card I would have to play a lot with to figure out if it's good or not.
This card is great against control and, for 3cmc, might be quite an excellent slot for against Grixis and Esper.
Doesn't have evasion. Nope. Maybe if we go big enough with Banefires and other big mana plays.
This card just isn't very good.
Illharg and Neheb -- I'm not linking because theses guys aren't really worth talking about. They die easily and require a whole turn to get going. Illharg requires for you to have fatties in hand while Neheb needs 4cmc up front. There is going to be so much removal flying around that, for as long as we have a big standard, these guys probably won't be that great.
These guys are also not that great. Kiora has some elements of Pestermite/Deceiver Exarch in that you can get some mana back but it's probably not worth it. We don't play that many 4 power creatures.
Samut is double haste. You're paying 4cmc to buy the same thing twice. We can get that already in Rhythm of the Wild.
I actually have high hope for these guys as SB role players. If the format is about protecting walkers, Vraksa could be great. If the format is about going wide and then finding a piece of evasion, Gruul War Chant just might be excellent. They have somewhat redundant abilities, so I doubt that we'll play both in the board at the same time. But I can envision a world in which we play one of these puppies.
Let's talk about removal since it has such a major impact on how we build our decks:
Ok, this is bad news bears for us. Despark is insane against Rekindling Phoenix, our stickiest threat. Tyrant's Scorn is more copies of Cast Down, already a premier revmoal spell against us. Will we be able to survive a format like this? Ok, well I think there are ways to combat things like this. Cards that come to mind are Regisaur Alpha or even something dumb like Tibalt, Rakish Instigator (I told you it was dumb). Better yet, you can slam this familiar guy:
Hell. Yeah.
Make dragons, turn your PWs into dragons, I'm all about this. It plays excellently with RG walkers lower down the curve -- mainly both Domris. Having a few extra walkers handy means that Sarkhan's uptick will have effective haste. Unfortunately, the dragons die to Find // Finality but my suspicion is that Grixis and Esper may make quick work of whatever is left of Sultai.
Thrashing Brontodon is bad but I just got sick of drawing Warbosses against a bunch of Chainwhirlers. We're back on Chaos Bringer since we want walkers that cantrip in the face of spot removal for walkers and we want walkers in play so that when we play Sarkhan we can immediately attack for 4.
Some decent analysis here, but I'm personally pretty cold on Sarkhan the Masterless. 5 CMC and a static ability that barely benefits us (we play between 0-2 actual dragons and if we're the ones getting attacked, we're probably already losing the game) - and putting a single 4/4 into play puts him into Lightning Strike (et. al.) range immediately and he can only put another token into play 2 turns after the first one.
I'm also curious why you didn't mention God-Eternal Rhonas, the 5-drop I would actually want to test as a 2-of instead of Sarkhan the Masterless or Skarrgan Hellkite / Regisaur Alpha. Rhonas is very hard to - permanently - remove and has an incredibly strong ETB-effect that will most likely lead to a lethal alpha strike or lots of chump blocking by our opponents, provided we have enough board presence.
Rhonas would have to compete in the 5 drop slot. Though him coming in with Domri or Rhythm in play uncountered would make him really tough to take down. Problem is lack of trample.
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[quote from="lugger »" url="/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/deck-creation-standard/804394-gruulggro?comment=82"]New Cards from War of the Spark:
This card is very similar to Dromoka's Command. It plays great on the play, allowing your 2 drops to push through damage and function very similar to Fleecemane Lion and co. of the past. So what's the draw back here? It's sorcery speed, meaning that you're getting set up to get blown out. You can't realistically play this card into open mana. We're already tight on removal spells and, in a lot of cases, Lava Coil will be just as good if not better.
Isnt threat//thrashing just better?
Still going to test Ilharg, I want him to be good.
Rhonas would have to compete in the 5 drop slot. Though him coming in with Domri or Rhythm in play uncountered would make him really tough to take down. Problem is lack of trample.
Lack of trample is certainly the biggest weakness of God-Eternal Rhonas (aside from - obviously - needing a board presence).
However, vigilance + a big pump will usually - at least - lead to your opponent pretty much having to chump-block all of your creatures amd your creatures still being ready to block alongside your death-touching 5/5 "undying" Rhonas. That means you will not only decimate your opponents board, you will also not die to them cracking back with their creatures (unless they have meaningful evasion).
This actually makes God-Eternal Rhonas pretty good in all scenarios where you have a significant board presence when you drop him. If you're up against a Control/Combo player with no creatures, you wouldn't benefit too much from trample anyways - and if you're up against a board of creatures, they'll probably lose most of their board chump-blocking and can't just crack back for the win.
These cards will help against aggro decks in the early/mid/late game, and also beat out midrange/control in the mid to late game. I'm not saying they each necessitate multiple copies in the mainboard. But I'm sure at least 1-3 of these mainboard should be correct. Especially if we can craft a more-aggro version of gruul, which we should be able to do in this meta.
Note that I am tackling this from a bo1 Arena perspective mainly, but I believe these are at least sideboard worthy in bo3 as well.
Gruul already has the ability to be very aggro given our riot/haste creatures and Rekindling Phoenix. Llanowar elves are also decent already for our deck, but much better with creature pump spells, especially those that gives haste. Samut's sprint actually ADDS synergy to our haste/riot creatures as we can make them large and still attack with them. Also a 6/4 haste scry 1 Rekindling Pheonix turn 5 is something to write home about. As is a 6-10 (12?) power haste Kraul Harpooner in the late game.
Giant Growth can protect llanowar elves and pelt collector so the can trade in the early/midgame while also protecting them from burn spells. Also, we have trample/haste in Gruul Spellbreaker or 7 flying damage with Rekindling Phoenix. Turn 4 spellbreaker+Samut's sprint, 6/4 trample haste with hexproof for the turn.
I'm also curious about Rubblebelt Rioters as being a possible addition. You can giant growth/samut's sprint something before attacking with this and have two HUGE creatures. A bit fragile, until you consider we run Gruul Spellbreaker and Rekindling Pheonix in the deck as well. So this is potentially a 4/4 top decked as well. Should help close out the games early. This can be crazy paired with Harpooner Krauler turn 5. Play Krauler after control has destroyed a bunch of your creatures, swing in for a healthy amount haste on turn 5.
My current legal pet favorite cards for bo1 are 4Light up the Stage and 2Grand Warlord Radha. Radha is also good with all of the pump spells I've mentioned previously.
I see the possibility of a deck playing some 1 drop creatures: llanowar elves, Pelt Collector, maybe footlight fiend alongside a few of these crazy pump spells, haste creatures, and the new Vivien Planeswalker, or the older or newer Domri Walkers. Maybe even the older Vivien too!
The fact that most of these haste creatures combo with Samut's Sprint by just becoming bigger is awesome.
There is also Zhur-taa Goblin, a card I've looked at favorably before, but becomes much better with giant growth and/or samut's sprint.
Pump spells are good with Direfleet Captain also, should that card remain viable.
I'm also curious why you didn't mention God-Eternal Rhonas, the 5-drop I would actually want to test as a 2-of instead of Sarkhan the Masterless or Skarrgan Hellkite / Regisaur Alpha. Rhonas is very hard to - permanently - remove and has an incredibly strong ETB-effect that will most likely lead to a lethal alpha strike or lots of chump blocking by our opponents, provided we have enough board presence.
God-Eternal Rhonas has a variety of issues, mainly, while laddering, I play against a lot of Esper, Reclamation, and the like. A 5 drop that requires you to have a board is wildly irrelevant. 5 drops against combo just aren't relevant at all.
If they target it with a removal spell, it still functionally Teferi tucks, which for a card that doesn't have haste, is as good as a removal spell against Teferis, Searches, etc. While from a certainly perspective, a Teferi tuck isn't that bad, it's still card disadvantage while putting us back on the board state.
I'd imagine that God-Eternal Rhonas is good against exactly Sultai. Even then, it doesn't have evasion, which may be a deal breaker.
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Despark, Tyrant's Scorn, Ritual of Soot, Kaya's Wrath, Teferi and Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God are going to run this format. We just have to figure out how to line up our threats to get through their defenses. My hunch? We won't be able to lean into the power of Rekindling Phoenix like we have been. This is why I've been suggesting some of the walkers that we have access to. Sarkhan plays well with playing a couple walkers. His static, imo, is largely irrelevant.
at best Rhonas is a 2 of, yea it does need somewhat of board, but overall he should check against most other matchups, obviously the esper matchup is a wash but then again the esper matchup was always a joke to begin with...
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
Angrath, Giant Growth and Samut's Sprint are completely trash cards in Standard. GG hasn't been a viable constructed card in ages, and sprint might be even worse. What you're talking about is a casual deck, not competitive.
I'm also curious why you didn't mention God-Eternal Rhonas, the 5-drop I would actually want to test as a 2-of instead of Sarkhan the Masterless or Skarrgan Hellkite / Regisaur Alpha. Rhonas is very hard to - permanently - remove and has an incredibly strong ETB-effect that will most likely lead to a lethal alpha strike or lots of chump blocking by our opponents, provided we have enough board presence.
God-Eternal Rhonas has a variety of issues, mainly, while laddering, I play against a lot of Esper, Reclamation, and the like. A 5 drop that requires you to have a board is wildly irrelevant. 5 drops against combo just aren't relevant at all.
If they target it with a removal spell, it still functionally Teferi tucks, which for a card that doesn't have haste, is as good as a removal spell against Teferis, Searches, etc. While from a certainly perspective, a Teferi tuck isn't that bad, it's still card disadvantage while putting us back on the board state.
I'd imagine that God-Eternal Rhonas is good against exactly Sultai. Even then, it doesn't have evasion, which may be a deal breaker.
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Despark, Tyrant's Scorn, Ritual of Soot, Kaya's Wrath, Teferi and Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God are going to run this format. We just have to figure out how to line up our threats to get through their defenses. My hunch? We won't be able to lean into the power of Rekindling Phoenix like we have been. This is why I've been suggesting some of the walkers that we have access to. Sarkhan plays well with playing a couple walkers. His static, imo, is largely irrelevant.
You need creatures that attack well on their own if they cost 3 mana.
I'm actually playing against a ton of White Weenie and Mono Blue Tempo in Bo1 Arena - both decks where we can generally keep our creatures on the board and God-Eternal Rhonas coming down will lead to lots of chump blocking by my opponents (which they usually can't recover from, especially since gaining Vigilance gives us some protection from the crack-back).
Just kinda hopping into the discussion, but does Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion merit any amount of consideration? I know he lacks haste and bites it to Lava Coil, both hefty strikes, but on rate alone he is a 5 power trampler for 4cmc. That makes him competitively priced, at least. In the event that he does swing and trample over for a single point of damage, you get the option of pitching irrelevant threats/excess land to, potentially, draw more gas. Breaking the shackles of being chained to the top of our deck is something Gruul desperately needs. I find it even more appealing when paired with Living Twister as you can bounce a land or two to draw additional cards at net neutral mana. Mana that can then be used to fling a fist full of land at the opponent to either close out the game or wreck the opposing board state. I understand that Neheb likely isn't a slam dunk solution to our problems, but it could give us a slightly different angle of attack.
Anyway, I just thought I'd toss that out there since I felt like he deserved to, at least, enter the conversation as a new entry that could have a dynamic effect on the archetype.
Just kinda hopping into the discussion, but does Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion merit any amount of consideration? I know he lacks haste and bites it to Lava Coil, both hefty strikes, but on rate alone he is a 5 power trampler for 4cmc. That makes him competitively priced, at least. In the event that he does swing and trample over for a single point of damage, you get the option of pitching irrelevant threats/excess land to, potentially, draw more gas. Breaking the shackles of being chained to the top of our deck is something Gruul desperately needs. I find it even more appealing when paired with Living Twister as you can bounce a land or two to draw additional cards at net neutral mana. Mana that can then be used to fling a fist full of land at the opponent to either close out the game or wreck the opposing board state. I understand that Neheb likely isn't a slam dunk solution to our problems, but it could give us a slightly different angle of attack.
Anyway, I just thought I'd toss that out there since I felt like he deserved to, at least, enter the conversation as a new entry that could have a dynamic effect on the archetype.
I could maybe see Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion as a 1-of sideboard options against Control and very grindy Midrange match-ups (like Sultai Midrange with 4x Hydroid Krasis and 4x Find // Finality). Living Twister seems like a really terrible "trap" card that people will fail to build around. Bouncing your own land isn't relevant without landfall-ish cards to abuse it. And paying 2 mana for 2 damage per pitched land is simply too expensive and therefore inefficient to really do anything.
Angrath, Giant Growth and Samut's Sprint are completely trash cards in Standard. GG hasn't been a viable constructed card in ages, and sprint might be even worse. What you're talking about is a casual deck, not competitive.
I'm coming at this from a bo1 perspective on Arena. You must be able to beat aggro for bo1, and giant growth can be a fine card to do so. It does help against control too, if you know how to wait for the right moment to play a pump spell. I can beat Teferi control in bo1, it's hard, but it does happen. When it happens it's because I could be aggro enough to kill them before they can set up. When I don't kill them, they are often at 1-3 life before they stabilize and come back up. Giant growth would help in these scenarios.
I'm trying to get at the fact that these cards may be good in a more aggro version of the deck. Yes, you would build your deck to be much lower to the ground in order to enable these cards, and you still wouldn't want more than like 4 max. However, I can see a single giant growth being good in just about any version of the deck. We have access to haste/trample/flying creatures... Just make sure you don't get blown out with a removal spell after casting it. Yes, it takes a bit of maneuvering and planning, that's why you limit the number of copies you play so you only see 1 copy a game at most.
I've raced mono-red multiple times with my deck list, it's just that aggro for bo1. Giant growth helps the deck become even faster possibly... I don't think it should just be discounted out of hand because it didn't make deck lists in the past. You can't directly compare cards to past standard environments they were in because we are in a different environment right now (which is still totally theoretical.) Perhaps a better comparison is how long has it been since a combat trick this good has been printed? This is basically the premium green combat trick to which all others are compared. Combat tricks aren't needed that much, but they can find uses as Collision // Colossus has done for us already with this deck.
Whoa whoa, lets not lump collision//colossus as a combat trick. It is mostly a removal spell that happens to have utility. Giant growth hasn't been a good combat trick in a long time. blossoming defense should be the card you compare it to. that was a card that wasn't totally included in all green creature lists because of its unreal ability to come when you dont need it/cant use it. that would be my starting point for comparison though.
Angrath, Giant Growth and Samut's Sprint are completely trash cards in Standard. GG hasn't been a viable constructed card in ages, and sprint might be even worse. What you're talking about is a casual deck, not competitive.
I'm coming at this from a bo1 perspective on Arena. You must be able to beat aggro for bo1, and giant growth can be a fine card to do so. It does help against control too, if you know how to wait for the right moment to play a pump spell. I can beat Teferi control in bo1, it's hard, but it does happen. When it happens it's because I could be aggro enough to kill them before they can set up. When I don't kill them, they are often at 1-3 life before they stabilize and come back up. Giant growth would help in these scenarios.
I'm trying to get at the fact that these cards may be good in a more aggro version of the deck. Yes, you would build your deck to be much lower to the ground in order to enable these cards, and you still wouldn't want more than like 4 max. However, I can see a single giant growth being good in just about any version of the deck. We have access to haste/trample/flying creatures... Just make sure you don't get blown out with a removal spell after casting it. Yes, it takes a bit of maneuvering and planning, that's why you limit the number of copies you play so you only see 1 copy a game at most.
I've raced mono-red multiple times with my deck list, it's just that aggro for bo1. Giant growth helps the deck become even faster possibly... I don't think it should just be discounted out of hand because it didn't make deck lists in the past. You can't directly compare cards to past standard environments they were in because we are in a different environment right now (which is still totally theoretical.) Perhaps a better comparison is how long has it been since a combat trick this good has been printed? This is basically the premium green combat trick to which all others are compared. Combat tricks aren't needed that much, but they can find uses as Collision // Colossus has done for us already with this deck.
Cards that are just combat tricks are almost always terrible in Standard because they set you up for getting 2-for-1'ed more often then not. They also require a board presence or they do nothing (unlike a Lightning Strike that you can still send to that Control player's dome or use to kill a Benalish Marshal or Runaway Steam-Kin).
Split cards like Collision // Colossus or Thrash // Threat get around those downsides by giving you 1 side that isn't a combat trick and/or doesn't require you to have a board presence.
In general, if you're worried about Aggro and want to do well in Bo1s I would recommend Shocks and Lightning Strikes over combat tricks because those are always able to remove creatures or burn your opponent.
The Immolation Shaman dealing 1 damage when they activate Search for azcanta as a land is enough to hold it down? I guess my real question is, this only deals damage when activated abilities are used right? I feel like I've seen different wording on cards to mean the same thing, so I'm wondering if this is an oracle update or I'm remembering something improperly.
it can pump for a total of 4... seems ok. question is what do you take out.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
If things have gone well, they'll be at a low life total. It doesn't take much. Often you'll put them to a number less than 5 and have to pass the turn. Shaman, compared to a slower card, gives them fewer outs with Fogs etc.
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My SB out for those strategies:
Elves and Strikes vs. Esper
High cmc cards vs. Reclamation
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
Haven't played a lick of arena at all this season. I'll get to it this week. There's no modern paper tourneys for me to prep for.
I played the Cleveland Classic on sunday and went 4-3, losing my last round -- which would've vaulted me into top 32 but outside of Top 16 since my breakers were trash. I played the event after losing my Day 2 win-and-in in the Open
2-1 Gates
1-2 UB Midrange
1-2 Sultai
2-0 Drakes
2-0 Esper
2-1 Esper
1-2 Sultai
Lost to a lot of Hostage Takers this weekend. My loss to UB involved 3x in our final game and both sultai opponents resolved at least one a game.
Beat Jonathan Hobbs on Esper in Round 6 with a nice little Banefire off the top for lethal.
This card is very similar to Dromoka's Command. It plays great on the play, allowing your 2 drops to push through damage and function very similar to Fleecemane Lion and co. of the past. So what's the draw back here? It's sorcery speed, meaning that you're getting set up to get blown out. You can't realistically play this card into open mana. We're already tight on removal spells and, in a lot of cases, Lava Coil will be just as good if not better.
At first I was pretty cold on new Domri. Why? Well, I was spoiled with Domri the first time around -- Domri Rade was amazing and was a staple in RG as long as it was in standard. This 3cmc guy though? It just fights, ramps, and pumps. Is that good? I think, in a deck where the pilot is trying to deploy big, fast, and evasive creatures, being able to cut dead removal for cards that fulfill multiple purposes is great. I don't want to run a bunch of bad cards either. I want to be lean and efficient, playing to the board hard and not letting up. Domri lets you do that while having escape valves to creatures that threaten to take over the game. Need to snag that Thief of Sanity? Slam a Domri and go to work. Need to ramp to 4cmc to get out Phoenix? We're served here.
I think Domri is an excellent roleplayer in a RG Aggro deck, maybe just not the staple that Domri Rade was in the past.
This strikes me as a card I would have to play a lot with to figure out if it's good or not.
This card is great against control and, for 3cmc, might be quite an excellent slot for against Grixis and Esper.
Doesn't have evasion. Nope. Maybe if we go big enough with Banefires and other big mana plays.
This card just isn't very good.
Illharg and Neheb -- I'm not linking because theses guys aren't really worth talking about. They die easily and require a whole turn to get going. Illharg requires for you to have fatties in hand while Neheb needs 4cmc up front. There is going to be so much removal flying around that, for as long as we have a big standard, these guys probably won't be that great.
These guys are also not that great. Kiora has some elements of Pestermite/Deceiver Exarch in that you can get some mana back but it's probably not worth it. We don't play that many 4 power creatures.
Samut is double haste. You're paying 4cmc to buy the same thing twice. We can get that already in Rhythm of the Wild.
I actually have high hope for these guys as SB role players. If the format is about protecting walkers, Vraksa could be great. If the format is about going wide and then finding a piece of evasion, Gruul War Chant just might be excellent. They have somewhat redundant abilities, so I doubt that we'll play both in the board at the same time. But I can envision a world in which we play one of these puppies.
Let's talk about removal since it has such a major impact on how we build our decks:
Ok, this is bad news bears for us. Despark is insane against Rekindling Phoenix, our stickiest threat. Tyrant's Scorn is more copies of Cast Down, already a premier revmoal spell against us. Will we be able to survive a format like this? Ok, well I think there are ways to combat things like this. Cards that come to mind are Regisaur Alpha or even something dumb like Tibalt, Rakish Instigator (I told you it was dumb). Better yet, you can slam this familiar guy:
Hell. Yeah.
Make dragons, turn your PWs into dragons, I'm all about this. It plays excellently with RG walkers lower down the curve -- mainly both Domris. Having a few extra walkers handy means that Sarkhan's uptick will have effective haste. Unfortunately, the dragons die to Find // Finality but my suspicion is that Grixis and Esper may make quick work of whatever is left of Sultai.
Anyway, who wants a rough draft? I do.
4x Pelt Collector
4x Zhur-Taa Goblin
1x Kraul Harpooner
4x Growth-Chamber Guardian
4x Gruul Spellbreaker
2x Thrashing Brontodon
4x Rekindling Phoenix
2x Collision // Colossus
2x Domri, Anarch of Bolas
2x Domri, Chaos Bringer
2x Sarkhan the Masterless
4x Rootbound Crag
9x Forest
6x Mountain
Thrashing Brontodon is bad but I just got sick of drawing Warbosses against a bunch of Chainwhirlers. We're back on Chaos Bringer since we want walkers that cantrip in the face of spot removal for walkers and we want walkers in play so that when we play Sarkhan we can immediately attack for 4.
-Stay Frosty
Some decent analysis here, but I'm personally pretty cold on Sarkhan the Masterless. 5 CMC and a static ability that barely benefits us (we play between 0-2 actual dragons and if we're the ones getting attacked, we're probably already losing the game) - and putting a single 4/4 into play puts him into Lightning Strike (et. al.) range immediately and he can only put another token into play 2 turns after the first one.
I'm also curious why you didn't mention God-Eternal Rhonas, the 5-drop I would actually want to test as a 2-of instead of Sarkhan the Masterless or Skarrgan Hellkite / Regisaur Alpha. Rhonas is very hard to - permanently - remove and has an incredibly strong ETB-effect that will most likely lead to a lethal alpha strike or lots of chump blocking by our opponents, provided we have enough board presence.
-Stay Frosty
Isnt threat//thrashing just better?
Still going to test Ilharg, I want him to be good.
4 llanowar elves
3 Paradise Druid
4 Kraul Harpooner
4 Wildgrowth Walker
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
4 Jadelight Ranger
4 Steel leaf Champion
2 Nullhide Ferox
3 Domri, Choas Bringer
3 Ilharg, the Raze-Boar
3 Ghalta, Primal Hunger
14 forest
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Stomping Ground
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
Lack of trample is certainly the biggest weakness of God-Eternal Rhonas (aside from - obviously - needing a board presence).
However, vigilance + a big pump will usually - at least - lead to your opponent pretty much having to chump-block all of your creatures amd your creatures still being ready to block alongside your death-touching 5/5 "undying" Rhonas. That means you will not only decimate your opponents board, you will also not die to them cracking back with their creatures (unless they have meaningful evasion).
This actually makes God-Eternal Rhonas pretty good in all scenarios where you have a significant board presence when you drop him. If you're up against a Control/Combo player with no creatures, you wouldn't benefit too much from trample anyways - and if you're up against a board of creatures, they'll probably lose most of their board chump-blocking and can't just crack back for the win.
Samut's Sprint
Giant Growth
These cards will help against aggro decks in the early/mid/late game, and also beat out midrange/control in the mid to late game. I'm not saying they each necessitate multiple copies in the mainboard. But I'm sure at least 1-3 of these mainboard should be correct. Especially if we can craft a more-aggro version of gruul, which we should be able to do in this meta.
Note that I am tackling this from a bo1 Arena perspective mainly, but I believe these are at least sideboard worthy in bo3 as well.
Gruul already has the ability to be very aggro given our riot/haste creatures and Rekindling Phoenix. Llanowar elves are also decent already for our deck, but much better with creature pump spells, especially those that gives haste. Samut's sprint actually ADDS synergy to our haste/riot creatures as we can make them large and still attack with them. Also a 6/4 haste scry 1 Rekindling Pheonix turn 5 is something to write home about. As is a 6-10 (12?) power haste Kraul Harpooner in the late game.
Giant Growth can protect llanowar elves and pelt collector so the can trade in the early/midgame while also protecting them from burn spells. Also, we have trample/haste in Gruul Spellbreaker or 7 flying damage with Rekindling Phoenix. Turn 4 spellbreaker+Samut's sprint, 6/4 trample haste with hexproof for the turn.
Let's not forget that Collision / Colossus is also a card.
I'm also curious about Rubblebelt Rioters as being a possible addition. You can giant growth/samut's sprint something before attacking with this and have two HUGE creatures. A bit fragile, until you consider we run Gruul Spellbreaker and Rekindling Pheonix in the deck as well. So this is potentially a 4/4 top decked as well. Should help close out the games early. This can be crazy paired with Harpooner Krauler turn 5. Play Krauler after control has destroyed a bunch of your creatures, swing in for a healthy amount haste on turn 5.
My current legal pet favorite cards for bo1 are 4Light up the Stage and 2Grand Warlord Radha. Radha is also good with all of the pump spells I've mentioned previously.
I see the possibility of a deck playing some 1 drop creatures: llanowar elves, Pelt Collector, maybe footlight fiend alongside a few of these crazy pump spells, haste creatures, and the new Vivien Planeswalker, or the older or newer Domri Walkers. Maybe even the older Vivien too!
The fact that most of these haste creatures combo with Samut's Sprint by just becoming bigger is awesome.
There is also Zhur-taa Goblin, a card I've looked at favorably before, but becomes much better with giant growth and/or samut's sprint.
Pump spells are good with Direfleet Captain also, should that card remain viable.
God-Eternal Rhonas has a variety of issues, mainly, while laddering, I play against a lot of Esper, Reclamation, and the like. A 5 drop that requires you to have a board is wildly irrelevant. 5 drops against combo just aren't relevant at all.
If they target it with a removal spell, it still functionally Teferi tucks, which for a card that doesn't have haste, is as good as a removal spell against Teferis, Searches, etc. While from a certainly perspective, a Teferi tuck isn't that bad, it's still card disadvantage while putting us back on the board state.
I'd imagine that God-Eternal Rhonas is good against exactly Sultai. Even then, it doesn't have evasion, which may be a deal breaker.
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Despark, Tyrant's Scorn, Ritual of Soot, Kaya's Wrath, Teferi and Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God are going to run this format. We just have to figure out how to line up our threats to get through their defenses. My hunch? We won't be able to lean into the power of Rekindling Phoenix like we have been. This is why I've been suggesting some of the walkers that we have access to. Sarkhan plays well with playing a couple walkers. His static, imo, is largely irrelevant.
You need creatures that attack well on their own if they cost 3 mana.
which is why we have sideboarding....
-Stay Frosty
I'm actually playing against a ton of White Weenie and Mono Blue Tempo in Bo1 Arena - both decks where we can generally keep our creatures on the board and God-Eternal Rhonas coming down will lead to lots of chump blocking by my opponents (which they usually can't recover from, especially since gaining Vigilance gives us some protection from the crack-back).
Anyway, I just thought I'd toss that out there since I felt like he deserved to, at least, enter the conversation as a new entry that could have a dynamic effect on the archetype.
I could maybe see Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion as a 1-of sideboard options against Control and very grindy Midrange match-ups (like Sultai Midrange with 4x Hydroid Krasis and 4x Find // Finality). Living Twister seems like a really terrible "trap" card that people will fail to build around. Bouncing your own land isn't relevant without landfall-ish cards to abuse it. And paying 2 mana for 2 damage per pitched land is simply too expensive and therefore inefficient to really do anything.
I'm coming at this from a bo1 perspective on Arena. You must be able to beat aggro for bo1, and giant growth can be a fine card to do so. It does help against control too, if you know how to wait for the right moment to play a pump spell. I can beat Teferi control in bo1, it's hard, but it does happen. When it happens it's because I could be aggro enough to kill them before they can set up. When I don't kill them, they are often at 1-3 life before they stabilize and come back up. Giant growth would help in these scenarios.
I'm trying to get at the fact that these cards may be good in a more aggro version of the deck. Yes, you would build your deck to be much lower to the ground in order to enable these cards, and you still wouldn't want more than like 4 max. However, I can see a single giant growth being good in just about any version of the deck. We have access to haste/trample/flying creatures... Just make sure you don't get blown out with a removal spell after casting it. Yes, it takes a bit of maneuvering and planning, that's why you limit the number of copies you play so you only see 1 copy a game at most.
I've raced mono-red multiple times with my deck list, it's just that aggro for bo1. Giant growth helps the deck become even faster possibly... I don't think it should just be discounted out of hand because it didn't make deck lists in the past. You can't directly compare cards to past standard environments they were in because we are in a different environment right now (which is still totally theoretical.) Perhaps a better comparison is how long has it been since a combat trick this good has been printed? This is basically the premium green combat trick to which all others are compared. Combat tricks aren't needed that much, but they can find uses as Collision // Colossus has done for us already with this deck.
Cards that are just combat tricks are almost always terrible in Standard because they set you up for getting 2-for-1'ed more often then not. They also require a board presence or they do nothing (unlike a Lightning Strike that you can still send to that Control player's dome or use to kill a Benalish Marshal or Runaway Steam-Kin).
Split cards like Collision // Colossus or Thrash // Threat get around those downsides by giving you 1 side that isn't a combat trick and/or doesn't require you to have a board presence.
In general, if you're worried about Aggro and want to do well in Bo1s I would recommend Shocks and Lightning Strikes over combat tricks because those are always able to remove creatures or burn your opponent.