I think that if you’re looking to really beat the mirror, then you play Harvester. Its abilities to crew after stun effects and gain life are very good. However, I do think it is getting worse with Harsh Mentor and Ferocidon being in a large number of RR lists now. I’m currently off Harvester because of that. It’s not quite as good as it used to be, and I feel like I have more matchups to have board cards for now (Tokens, Vampires etc) that require some of the sideboard slots that used to be devoted to the mirror.
I would say Harvester has decreased in strength but it is still a strong go too in the Aggro match-up including the rise again of Mardu Vehicles/BR Aggro.
And I would like to make a quick update! John Rolf is onto the Top 4 with Ramunap Red after beating Temur in 5. Bomat Courier pulling its weight in those games!
Interesting to see that two out of the four decks that went 8-2 or better in the standard section of the PT, and two out of 6 of the 20-23 point lists ran only one, or no copies of Ahn-Crop Crasher, but did still run 3-4 each of Kari Zev and Ferocidon... The two decks at 9-1 were split on the mainboard Chandras (Fournier had none, Kawa had two, and an extra land to back it up).
I'd like to credit John for making it this far into the PT; however, he is truly piloting the deck horrifically in the top 8. Consistent punts and misplays on his part...
The deck clearly worked, and I believe his list is correct; however, do not follow what he did in his Semi match against Pascal. This was a match tossed away because of poor piloting...
There were 4 Ramunap Red lists at 9-1 not including John Rolfe’s top 4 deck. Red is still looking good if I may say so.
Agreed, I think even with a meta filled with energy, Ramunap Red still can be competitively viable against it. Sure the meta may not be excellent and slightly favorable for them but still a good showing.
I would love to see how the deck evolves from me, I noticed many lists running less and less Crashers as it appears they always side them out. Currently I run 3 and in some situations Crasher can be good but I find myself siding it out most of the time (especially on the draw). Additionally, I think we have finally agreed to the point that Ferocidon is NEEDED in the MB. Whether you run 2 or you run 4, you need them there as it is our out against many of the control/token builds. It is also important to add that Mentor as should have a home in the MB if the meta is heavily Energy based. Mentor does not only force the opponent to make decisions without much knowledge, it forces them to take unnecessary damage which can be life or death in games (Remember the point of Ramunap Red is to deal as much early on then finish off with burn/utility).
It's nice to see after the PT even with a field primarily made up off Energy based builds, Ramunap Red still held about a 37% conversion rate of being 6-3 or better compared the decks that made Day 2. Energy decks in total with this comparison made up about 44%.
So I've been lower and lower on Crasher over the past few weeks. I top 8'd a PPTQ two weeks ago and found myself taking it out in most matchups. After seeing Daniel Fournier's list, I was convinced that 4 Ferocidon in the main isn't as crazy as I thought it was. Now really comes my confusion with how to sideboard with this type of list. He is running main deck Kari Zevs which are an obvious non-bo as well as Pia Nalaar and Aethersphere Harvesters in the sideboard. From this, should I be assuming that Ferocidon is coming out in the mirror matches? I'm trying to prepare for GP Atlanta and figuring out how to sideboard has always been my greatest weakness. I usually rely on sideboard guides that content creators post, but there doesn't seem to be any recent ones for Ramunap Red (I guess because so many of the pros are on Energy). Any help would be greatly appreciated.
If anything, I think that Ferocidon stays in for the mirror. You want to decide if you are more controlling or staying as the beatdown. If you assume that they are going to to stay aggressive, and most likely will leave in their Kari Zev's, you can leave in the Dino and let them take the hits from it while you play around it.
My current list is this (based on an amalgam of the PT lists, plus a couple of cards thrown in for personal taste).
Puncturing Blow is a great answer to the Scarab God, and will be sided in for the Repeating Barrages in matches that need it. Barrages are good for a bit of extra burn, with a to-the-face option, and also good against Approach and UB Control lists. Three Harsh Mentor in the main seems to work fine, and the curve isn't too affected as I dropped one Kari Zev. Also, Key in the side over Pia is a bit more of an aggressive choice. It makes Hazoret more likely to attack, plus works well on a gummed up board due to the "can't be blocked" vs Pia's "can't block" wording. Finally, I've pre-boarded one Chandra in, largely because I only own 3 Hazoret... I'm thinking that I may want to go back up to 24 land, maybe cutting a 1 drop (Soul-Scar, most likely), or the last Crasher. Went 2-2 with it last night, losing one round to a greedy play, and just unlucky in the other.
This is the list I currently have put together. I do like the idea of Key to the City in the side though. Really I have no clue if I should be aggressive or not. I guess I need to playtest, but don't really have anyone to test with at the moment (the group I'm going up with are kind of flakes when it comes to getting together to test). The Invigorated Rampage in the side may be better as 2 Key to the City since it's meant to be pushing through damage and I could also bring it in against Energy without letting myself be vulnerable to getting 2-for-1'd. Really I'm just not sure when I bring in the Glorybringers and whether the non-bo of Ferocidon and Aethersphere Harvester in the mirror is a problem.
It's not quite that simple. If you look at the post again, you'll notice that while the extra two Ferocidon come in for most matchups, it's not always the same things coming out.
Agreed. I’ve thought about 4 main Ferocidon, and I just don’t see anything worth taking out against the field. I want 7 2 mana/3 damage removal spells and 7 2 mana creatures. I want 4 Shock. I definitely want 4 Hazoret and 4 Earthshaker Khenra. I want 8 1 mana creatures and 24 lands. That leaves Ahn-Crop Crasher vs Rampaging Ferocidon. I want Ahn-Crop Crasher more, because it’s a more proactive card for game 1. More Ferocidon post board makes sense to me, because more life gain frequently comes in against RDW post board, and sometimes Ferocidon is a liability, especially in multiples (Mardu/BB Aggro).
Ahn Crop Crasher is no longer in the main deck. He is bad against Energy so he gets sided out against 50% of the field. He is bad against Mirror match because he dies to Shock so he gets sided out in Mirror. Therefore he gets boarded out in 65% of all games. Why run a card main board that is out more often than not?
Ferocidon helps a lot more in both of those matchups. Then when you are playing against control, gift, or anything else other than mono white vamps, energy, or mirror, you can side Crasher back in.
If anything, I think that Ferocidon stays in for the mirror. You want to decide if you are more controlling or staying as the beatdown. If you assume that they are going to to stay aggressive, and most likely will leave in their Kari Zev's, you can leave in the Dino and let them take the hits from it while you play around it.
My current list is this (based on an amalgam of the PT lists, plus a couple of cards thrown in for personal taste).
Puncturing Blow is a great answer to the Scarab God, and will be sided in for the Repeating Barrages in matches that need it. Barrages are good for a bit of extra burn, with a to-the-face option, and also good against Approach and UB Control lists. Three Harsh Mentor in the main seems to work fine, and the curve isn't too affected as I dropped one Kari Zev. Also, Key in the side over Pia is a bit more of an aggressive choice. It makes Hazoret more likely to attack, plus works well on a gummed up board due to the "can't be blocked" vs Pia's "can't block" wording. Finally, I've pre-boarded one Chandra in, largely because I only own 3 Hazoret... I'm thinking that I may want to go back up to 24 land, maybe cutting a 1 drop (Soul-Scar, most likely), or the last Crasher. Went 2-2 with it last night, losing one round to a greedy play, and just unlucky in the other.
Puncturing blow is too slow at 4 mana. Magma Spray is fine for Scarab God. You just have to find 3 other damage from another spell, or blocking it, or tricking them into using it to block you.
Repeating Barrage is also too slow. Paying 5 to get it back is useless. I'd rather just use that mana to play a Hazoret. Then it's 3 more to re-cast so effectively you are paying 8 mana for an additional 3 damage to re-cast it. Nope. I can just start throwing deserts at them with Ruins if I'm that desperate.
So how am I supposed to beat Tokens? I playtested the matchup tonight and I felt like a dog in the match even with 4 main deck Ferocidon. I sided into Key to the City, Pia Nalaar, and Glorybringer, and even with having a key out, their life gain just outpaced me (they had removal for my Ferocidon so often).
So how am I supposed to beat Tokens? I playtested the matchup tonight and I felt like a dog in the match even with 4 main deck Ferocidon. I sided into Key to the City, Pia Nalaar, and Glorybringer, and even with having a key out, their life gain just outpaced me (they had removal for my Ferocidon so often).
It comes down to can you get enough early pressure and put ferocidon on the board.
So how am I supposed to beat Tokens? I playtested the matchup tonight and I felt like a dog in the match even with 4 main deck Ferocidon. I sided into Key to the City, Pia Nalaar, and Glorybringer, and even with having a key out, their life gain just outpaced me (they had removal for my Ferocidon so often).
Puncturing blow is too slow at 4 mana. Magma Spray is fine for Scarab God. You just have to find 3 other damage from another spell, or blocking it, or tricking them into using it to block you.
Repeating Barrage is also too slow. Paying 5 to get it back is useless. I'd rather just use that mana to play a Hazoret. Then it's 3 more to re-cast so effectively you are paying 8 mana for an additional 3 damage to re-cast it. Nope. I can just start throwing deserts at them with Ruins if I'm that desperate.
Curious. You really think that 2-for-1 is better than a single card? How is it that a 4 mana spell that exiles is too slow to deal with a 5 mana spell? If they tap out on 5 to drop the Scarab God, we have an instant answer, even on the draw. If anything, Puncturing Blow seems to be more efficient at dealing with Scarab than Magma Spray.
Barrage though, you may be right. I've been playing it due to a larger number of control decks at my local store (there's only so many times they can counter it!), so is more than likely to come out when I head to the GP in Portland, probably to be replaced by a couple of main deck Magma Sprays, which free up space in the side for other cards.
I'm also intrigued by the Fiery Cannonade idea as mentioned in the CommanderSphere blog link. Going to have to try that this week...
Puncturing blow is too slow at 4 mana. Magma Spray is fine for Scarab God. You just have to find 3 other damage from another spell, or blocking it, or tricking them into using it to block you.
Repeating Barrage is also too slow. Paying 5 to get it back is useless. I'd rather just use that mana to play a Hazoret. Then it's 3 more to re-cast so effectively you are paying 8 mana for an additional 3 damage to re-cast it. Nope. I can just start throwing deserts at them with Ruins if I'm that desperate.
Curious. You really think that 2-for-1 is better than a single card? How is it that a 4 mana spell that exiles is too slow to deal with a 5 mana spell? If they tap out on 5 to drop the Scarab God, we have an instant answer, even on the draw. If anything, Puncturing Blow seems to be more efficient at dealing with Scarab than Magma Spray.
Barrage though, you may be right. I've been playing it due to a larger number of control decks at my local store (there's only so many times they can counter it!), so is more than likely to come out when I head to the GP in Portland, probably to be replaced by a couple of main deck Magma Sprays, which free up space in the side for other cards.
I'm also intrigued by the Fiery Cannonade idea as mentioned in the CommanderSphere blog link. Going to have to try that this week...
To his/her, their own. It really all comes down to the match-up as there is a tendency where the gameplay is slowed significantly that Puncturing Blow can be very successful. It all comes down to what each of us experience at our different meta's. I am also very intrigued by Fiery Cannonade. I know two players in my meta that run tokens; however, they are running Annointer Priest and Cannonade does not do anything against those match-ups.
Aggressive red decks don't want to be playing four mana kill spells which is what Puncturing Blow boils down to. We don't even necessarily have to kill Scarab God. If you board in Ahn Crop Crasher or play him main deck, Exert him to swing around Scarab God. You should also be playing Scavenger Grounds of at least a one of (I play two-of). This shuts down Scarab God pretty handily. Keep it and two mana untapped during your opponents upkeep. See if he wastes four mana, then reply and exile everything in all graveyards so he gets nothing.
Very well put article there to explain the ideology behind sbing against each match-up on both the draw and play. The list he ran is pretty standard, so for all you whom are running pretty standard lists it's not very difficult to make changes based on what you have.
Also love how he mentioned potential deck popularity increases and how we should perceive it later on for SBing like the rise in GFG decks may want us to focus more on Abrade later.
The top 2 decks in the standard portion of the pro tour were both Ramunap Red. One list ran 4 ferocidon. The other ran 3. Like I said, if you sideboard a car in 90 percent of your matches there is nothing wrong with mainboatding it. I am personally happy to see it more than any card beside hazoret. Maybe just as much. There are dozens of lists that chose this route.
The top 2 decks in the standard portion of the pro tour were both Ramunap Red. One list ran 4 ferocidon. The other ran 3. Like I said, if you sideboard a car in 90 percent of your matches there is nothing wrong with mainboatding it. I am personally happy to see it more than any card beside hazoret. Maybe just as much. There are dozens of lists that chose this route.
Well sure, the top 2 lists that ran had 3+ Ferocidon and 0-4 Crasher, and Crasher has definitely dipped in my opinion than before; however, I still believe it is worthy of playing at least 2-3 in the MB Pre-board. The effectiveness it can have at putting through early damage is great and is essential on the aggro plan. Of course post-board the strategy for red changes a bit and that is why it is removed, but I still believe it is an effective card.
The top 2 decks in the standard portion of the pro tour were both Ramunap Red. One list ran 4 ferocidon. The other ran 3. Like I said, if you sideboard a car in 90 percent of your matches there is nothing wrong with mainboatding it. I am personally happy to see it more than any card beside hazoret. Maybe just as much. There are dozens of lists that chose this route.
Well sure, the top 2 lists that ran had 3+ Ferocidon and 0-4 Crasher, and Crasher has definitely dipped in my opinion than before; however, I still believe it is worthy of playing at least 2-3 in the MB Pre-board. The effectiveness it can have at putting through early damage is great and is essential on the aggro plan. Of course post-board the strategy for red changes a bit and that is why it is removed, but I still believe it is an effective card.
I would never cut crasher completely. It’s truly an amazing card. But cutting a Kari Zev and one crasher or abrade isn’t so bad
Well sure, if you noticed Rolfe's list which is the list I currently run, I'm at 3 Crashers MB right now. I think 3 is the perfect number right now for pre-board games.
Another interesting article made it on to CFB. This time its new Hall of Fame member Martin Juza with his deck list and board plan. The biggest thing that jumps out to me is his statements about how Harsh Mentor is not in his deck.
One thing I would like to stress is: Do not play Harsh Mentor. If this is your plan against Whirler Virtuoso or opposite Aethersphere Harvesters, then you are doing it wrong. While the ability might seem relevant in some games, the 2/2 body does absolutely nothing and it’s a horrible topdeck without any immediate impact on the game.
Is this a fair statement, given that all the other well performing lists had some number of Mentors in?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I would say Harvester has decreased in strength but it is still a strong go too in the Aggro match-up including the rise again of Mardu Vehicles/BR Aggro.
And I would like to make a quick update! John Rolf is onto the Top 4 with Ramunap Red after beating Temur in 5. Bomat Courier pulling its weight in those games!
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
4 Soul-Scar Mage
4 Bomat Courier
4 Earthshaker Khenra
2 Harsh Mentor
3 Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
1 Ahn-Crop Crasher
4 Rampaging Ferocidon
4 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Shock
2 Abrade
4 Lightning Strike
Land (24)
4 Ramunap Ruins
4 Sunscorched Desert
1 Scavenger Grounds
15 Mountain
2 Harsh Mentor
2 Abrade
2 Magma Spray
2 Pia Nalaar
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Glorybringer
3 Aethersphere Harvester
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Creature (23)
3 Rampaging Ferocidon
4 Bomat Courier
3 Earthshaker Khenra
4 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Soul-Scar Mage
3 Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
2 Harsh Mentor
2 Abrade
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
Land (25)
4 Ramunap Ruins
4 Sunscorched Desert
15 Mountain
2 Scavenger Grounds
1 Rampaging Ferocidon
1 Abrade
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Harsh Mentor
2 Glorybringer
3 Pia Nalaar
2 Chandra's Defeat
1 Aethersphere Harvester
1 Magma Spray
The deck clearly worked, and I believe his list is correct; however, do not follow what he did in his Semi match against Pascal. This was a match tossed away because of poor piloting...
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
Agreed, I think even with a meta filled with energy, Ramunap Red still can be competitively viable against it. Sure the meta may not be excellent and slightly favorable for them but still a good showing.
I would love to see how the deck evolves from me, I noticed many lists running less and less Crashers as it appears they always side them out. Currently I run 3 and in some situations Crasher can be good but I find myself siding it out most of the time (especially on the draw). Additionally, I think we have finally agreed to the point that Ferocidon is NEEDED in the MB. Whether you run 2 or you run 4, you need them there as it is our out against many of the control/token builds. It is also important to add that Mentor as should have a home in the MB if the meta is heavily Energy based. Mentor does not only force the opponent to make decisions without much knowledge, it forces them to take unnecessary damage which can be life or death in games (Remember the point of Ramunap Red is to deal as much early on then finish off with burn/utility).
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
Couple other lists with good performances:
3 Ahn-Crop Crasher
4 Bomat Courier
4 Earthshaker Khenra
2 Harsh Mentor
4 Hazoret the Fervent
3 Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
2 Rampaging Ferocidon
4 Soul-Scar Mage
2 Abrade
4 Lightning Strike
4 Shock
Land (24)
14 Mountain
4 Ramunap Ruins
2 Scavenger Grounds
4 Sunscorched Desert
2 Rampaging Ferocidon
2 Abrade
2 Aethersphere Harvester
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Chandra's Defeat
2 Glorybringer
3 Pia Nalaar
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Creature (23)
4 Ahn-Crop Crasher
4 Bomat Courier
4 Earthshaker Khenra
4 Hazoret the Fervent
3 Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
4 Soul-Scar Mage
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Abrade
Land (24)
16 Mountain
4 Ramunap Ruins
4 Sunscorched Desert
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Pia Nalaar
2 Aethersphere Harvester
4 Rampaging Ferocidon
2 Dual Shot
2 Invigorated Rampage
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
My current list is this (based on an amalgam of the PT lists, plus a couple of cards thrown in for personal taste).
4 Bomat Courier
4 Soul-Scar Mage
4 Earthshaker Khenra
3 Harsh Mentor
2 Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
1 Ahn-Crop Crasher
4 Rampaging Ferocidon
3 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Spells (11)
3 Shock
2 Abrade
4 Lightning Strike
2 Repeating Barrage
Lands (23)
14 Mountain
4 Ramunap Ruins
1 Scavenger Grounds
4 Sunscorched Desert
2 Chandra's Defeat
2 Magma Spray
1 Abrade
2 Key to the City
2 Aethersphere Harvester
1 Sweltering Suns
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Puncturing Blow
2 Glorybringer
Puncturing Blow is a great answer to the Scarab God, and will be sided in for the Repeating Barrages in matches that need it. Barrages are good for a bit of extra burn, with a to-the-face option, and also good against Approach and UB Control lists. Three Harsh Mentor in the main seems to work fine, and the curve isn't too affected as I dropped one Kari Zev. Also, Key in the side over Pia is a bit more of an aggressive choice. It makes Hazoret more likely to attack, plus works well on a gummed up board due to the "can't be blocked" vs Pia's "can't block" wording. Finally, I've pre-boarded one Chandra in, largely because I only own 3 Hazoret... I'm thinking that I may want to go back up to 24 land, maybe cutting a 1 drop (Soul-Scar, most likely), or the last Crasher. Went 2-2 with it last night, losing one round to a greedy play, and just unlucky in the other.
4 Bomat Courier
4 Soul-Scar Mage
4 Earthshaker Khenra
3 Harsh Mentor
2 Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
4 Rampaging Ferocidon
4 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Shock
3 Abrade
4 Lightning Strike
Lands (24)
15 Mountain
4 Ramunap Ruins
1 Scavenger Grounds
4 Sunscorched Desert
2 Chandra's Defeat
2 Pia Nalaar
1 Harsh Mentor
1 Scavenger Grounds
2 Invigorated Rampage
1 Abrade
2 Aethersphere Harvester
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Glorybringer
EDIT: Has a few mistakes in my decklist. I fixed those.
Ahn Crop Crasher is no longer in the main deck. He is bad against Energy so he gets sided out against 50% of the field. He is bad against Mirror match because he dies to Shock so he gets sided out in Mirror. Therefore he gets boarded out in 65% of all games. Why run a card main board that is out more often than not?
Ferocidon helps a lot more in both of those matchups. Then when you are playing against control, gift, or anything else other than mono white vamps, energy, or mirror, you can side Crasher back in.
Puncturing blow is too slow at 4 mana. Magma Spray is fine for Scarab God. You just have to find 3 other damage from another spell, or blocking it, or tricking them into using it to block you.
Repeating Barrage is also too slow. Paying 5 to get it back is useless. I'd rather just use that mana to play a Hazoret. Then it's 3 more to re-cast so effectively you are paying 8 mana for an additional 3 damage to re-cast it. Nope. I can just start throwing deserts at them with Ruins if I'm that desperate.
It comes down to can you get enough early pressure and put ferocidon on the board.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
Here's how: http://commandersphere.blogspot.com/2017/11/ramunap-red-sideboarding-versus-mirror.html
Barrage though, you may be right. I've been playing it due to a larger number of control decks at my local store (there's only so many times they can counter it!), so is more than likely to come out when I head to the GP in Portland, probably to be replaced by a couple of main deck Magma Sprays, which free up space in the side for other cards.
I'm also intrigued by the Fiery Cannonade idea as mentioned in the CommanderSphere blog link. Going to have to try that this week...
To his/her, their own. It really all comes down to the match-up as there is a tendency where the gameplay is slowed significantly that Puncturing Blow can be very successful. It all comes down to what each of us experience at our different meta's. I am also very intrigued by Fiery Cannonade. I know two players in my meta that run tokens; however, they are running Annointer Priest and Cannonade does not do anything against those match-ups.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
Very well put article there to explain the ideology behind sbing against each match-up on both the draw and play. The list he ran is pretty standard, so for all you whom are running pretty standard lists it's not very difficult to make changes based on what you have.
Also love how he mentioned potential deck popularity increases and how we should perceive it later on for SBing like the rise in GFG decks may want us to focus more on Abrade later.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
Well sure, the top 2 lists that ran had 3+ Ferocidon and 0-4 Crasher, and Crasher has definitely dipped in my opinion than before; however, I still believe it is worthy of playing at least 2-3 in the MB Pre-board. The effectiveness it can have at putting through early damage is great and is essential on the aggro plan. Of course post-board the strategy for red changes a bit and that is why it is removed, but I still believe it is an effective card.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
Is this a fair statement, given that all the other well performing lists had some number of Mentors in?