Ive been running this list the passed couple days making tweaks here and there. Wildgrowth Walker is pretty insane. I can pretty consistently have him at 4/6 or 5/7 by turn 3 which also leaves me at possibly 30+ life. I have eaten opposing carnage tyrants with this thing. Enter the Unknown has been surprisingly fantastic as well. The extra ramp it provides and being able to supercharge Wildgrowth with a jadelight > enter on t3 feels amazing. Currently with how golgari is setup I feel if you aren't doing some kind of recursion you are doing it wrong. Findbroker has made for the most amazing plays be it getting back a clutch chupa or eldest reborn, or just bringing back a planeswalker. Find//Finality speaks for itself; card is amazing and in this list wildgrowth, jadelight, findbroker and izoni all easily outgrow an survive the board sweep. Lastly, I have been trying Liliana, the Necromancer out the last day or so and this card puts in a ton of work against certain matchups. Don't sleep on the +1 and being able to shock your opponent every turn for free when the board is all mucked up. And the -1 is just great with getting extra value back. This was a 3rd Findbroker but I think moving forward I will keep using Lili. Will update the sideboard later, its pretty basic at this point. What you guys think?
You can denigrate the post all you want. Doesn't change the validity of it. If every single criticism you read towards your build you attack, then why even post?
You can denigrate the post all you want. Doesn't change the validity of it. If every single criticism you read towards your build you attack, then why even post?
dont waste your breath. You'll find identical reactions/posts in every thread he's commented in when someone disagrees. In fact, the ignore user function is probably the best course of action here.
You can denigrate the post all you want. Doesn't change the validity of it. If every single criticism you read towards your build you attack, then why even post?
Not denigrating anything...and as far as validity of it...I leave that one on you. I haven't even posted a build in this thread.
dont waste your breath. You'll find identical reactions/posts in every thread he's commented in when someone disagrees. In fact, the ignore user function is probably the best course of action here.
Not even going to entertain this. The saltiness is strong in this one.
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I'm having trouble finding a perfect list as I don't think there is one. The lists being published from mtgo are all really different and I've been testing the hell out of all of them. What I've come across so far that I wanna share
This format as a whole is VERY grindy and dependent on two-for-oneing your oponnent on a regular basis. If you run out of gas with decks like this and Red Frenzy running around you will get blown out of the water nearly every match. For this reason alone I do not think one drop creatures are needed in this deck aside from if you choose to go the Llanowar Elf route to ensure turn 3 Chupacabra's or turn 4-5 relic seekers, though if you're slamming relic seeker that early you're probably doing something wrong. That being said
NOT PLAYING RELIC SEEKER IS A MISTAKE and we do not need 4 main deck Trophy's. I feel the correct direction with this deck is grinding your opponent out with incremental card advantage and finishing with Planeswalkers.
Enough spot removal thats cheap and early on is essential as we don't want to let decks like Mono U wizards get under us early on and out tempo us. Cast Down should be no less than 2 of in the main deck and I personally am finding Dead Weightto be good for those match ups.
With the rise of GW tokens and its prevalence on the meta not playing some main deck board sweeper is feeling like a mistake. If you choose not to run Find/Finality a Plague Mare in the main deck will still help you win games you would otherwise get blown out of.
Main deck Plague Mare because tokens are everyone on arena and I'm playing Treasure Map instead of Blood Fast as the loss of life I feel is too much and map combos well with Vraska. I'm still not 100% sold on Llanowar Elves as this deck wants to get into the mid-late game every game and top decking elf feels terrible, but there are games where you start with a T1 Elf and completely blow your opponent out early on so i'm a bit torn.
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By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
Singleton Plague Mare being an all star tonight. Might up it to two depending on how the meta plays out. On a side note im really surprised at the lack of performance from mono green stompy. I thought for sure Nullhide Ferox was gonna be a format all star.
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By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
Ferox is definitely an all-star. It's lack of trample is really the only thing holding it back. Still a solid choice, even in the build I'm running with multiple non-creature spells.
I think the only problem is due to opportunity cost and/or curve considerations.
I did a light splash for Abzan. It was tough to build a happy medium for Golgari where I can take full advantage of the graveyard without relying on throwing things into it.
So is Knight of Autumn worth the splash? I think its versatility is, especially with all the recursion of permanents. Remorseful Cleric in the side is another splash for the mirror, as I feel its effect and evasion is better than Deathgorge Scavenger in that match up. I could be wrong, but at least you're guaranteed to take your opponent's graveyard if it ever resolves.
Without Trophy in the main I can go with Contempts, which I think is still better than Trophy if I'm playing Autumn.
I keep going back and forth between Llanowar Elves, Druid of the Cowl, and Wildgrowth Walker. Settled with Druid as I don't have important 3CMC plays but still want the ramp. Walker is better against aggro but at least Druid blocks well. I think it's just how much red decks I'm expecting.
I wish I could add Molderhulk but that's just overkill. I experimented with a build heavier on Izoni with Trostani but it was trying to be too cute and cut it.
I gotta say, I really don't see White being a worthwhile splash. At least not for those cards.
So I have been trying some different things on my Stompy Rock list and ended up with something that has swept the field, though control decks are still an issue.
Against the control matchups you would be facing targeted removal. A reasonable call would be Thorn Lieutenant as he leaves a body unless he gets exiled.
Imo, splashing white and going Knight of Autumn does feel like the correct move. My issue is when sideboarding in duress
Do you plan on playing it T1/T2/T3 or T4?
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Against the control matchups you would be facing targeted removal. A reasonable call would be Thorn Lieutenant as he leaves a body unless he gets exiled.
Imo, splashing white and going Knight of Autumn does feel like the correct move. My issue is when sideboarding in duress
Do you plan on playing it T1/T2/T3 or T4?
Like with any other game with any other deck that plays with Duress, it depends on the scenario. I'll play it if I need to see what's in their hand to make better correct lines of play, to take a crucial boardwipe or Teferi that's coming down soon, etc. I'm not sure why you are questioning Duress of all cards in the sideboard when it's the one card every GB deck is going to have in the side.
Like with any other game with any other deck that plays with Duress, it depends on the scenario. I'll play it if I need to see what's in their hand to make better correct lines of play, to take a crucial boardwipe or Teferi that's coming down soon, etc. I'm not sure why you are questioning Duress of all cards in the sideboard when it's the one card every GB deck is going to have in the side.
-Wasn't referring to you...It wouldn't have really mattered for you anyways.
I gotta say, I really don't see White being a worthwhile splash. At least not for those cards.
So I have been trying some different things on my Stompy Rock list and ended up with something that has swept the field, though control decks are still an issue.
As I said, the control match is hit or miss. Depending on my curve. Any suggestions for it?
Against the control matchups you would be facing targeted removal. A reasonable call would be Thorn Lieutenant as he leaves a body unless he gets exiled.
Imo, splashing white and going Knight of Autumn does feel like the correct move. My issue is when sideboarding in duress
but I suppose that is case by case since SLC will be in there no matter which matchup.
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
The SB was mostly a patchwork type of thing. I know I wanted more sweepers for token matches, Tyrants for control, plaguecrafter for control and midrange. An extra copy of Vine Mare for black decks. Beast whisperer is something I'm trying out of the side for control and Duress is just something I've seen in all the SBs so I'm giving it a go.
To be fair, I'm not saying Knight of Autumn is bad, I just don't understand it's inclusion. Unless you just need lifegain to help get you to the finish line.
Very quick background, In researching and building this list upon spoiler season I tested several cards and found out several interesting facts. First to my disappointment, Vraska, Golgari Queen was not what I wanted to her to be. At least with the style of deck I had wanted to run. I originally thought she'd be amazing with Muldrotha, the Gravetide but found out too many times she'd come down on an empty board and didn't do anything. So I moved on without her.
It didn't take long to figure out running anything less that 4 of both Doom Whisperer and Nullhide Ferox is a mistake. They are to good to leave out. After gold fishing around 20 or games I found I was drawing too many lands so I cut and haven't looked back since. Found that 23 feels really good.
So I finally got to play some actual games. I will not get into to much detail right now but at both FNM, and a Win-a-Box I went 2-1.
FNM
Naya Tokens
0-2 He drew 5 Conclave Tribunal in the two games. This was before I upp't the Trophy's to 3(2) and I had only 1 Brontodon in the Side. Still felt good about the games.
Mono green
2-0 not even close.
GW Tokens
2-1 Little better prepared.
Win-a-Box
Sulti Midrange
2-0 I felt I tutored for every card.
Mono(4-color)Red Dragon's
2-1 His list can't deal with Ferox's.
Mono Red
0-2 I need to play this MU a lot more. He had an awesome hand game one and I nearly beat him, game two, I sat at 3 mana with 2 Ferox'x in my hand. I again, nearly beat him.
Jeski Control
2-1 This was a difficult match but Ferox is obviously a big deal here. Vraska out of the side also fared very well.
Both nights I lost to the deck whom took 1st. I can't argue that.
Lots of games to be played yet before I decide more. The sideboard was as broad as I could make it without knowing the meta and only what a couple of people were playing. After the first weekend of test games and actual match games played the only thing I'd change currently is maybe something as lame as Druid of the Cowl in for Glowspore Shaman. They did their jobs but sort of at a mediocre pace. They are good with Muldrotha obviously. but I feel the deck ran best when I played a Turn 2 Drover of the Mighty. I know the Shaman has more synergy with the Pelt Collectors and Muldrotha but I think I want as many turn 2 mana dorks as I can. Turn 3 Ferox's are amazing!
I plan to put all my standard time into this list and do as much testing as I possibly can.
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BGUSULTI ELEVENSBGU
hatred
I will flay the skin from your flesh,
the flesh from your bones,
and scrape your bones dry,
and still you will not have suffered enough!
Quote the Ryxsyn;
NeVeRMoRe!
You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain!
-Harvey Dent
Hey all, been testing a few lists on mtgo, going 3-2 and 3-2 again. I tested Misplacedginger's 7-2 list and after watching his stream I tried some of his updates. I would go further and say that Carnage Tyrant is huge in the mirror. Sure you can trade with it but getting back with Golgari Findbroker and Memorial to Folly is nasty. Most of the mirrors I've played are a very diverse sampling of the arch type. I like the explore package with SB Wildgrowth's and love the 3x Findbrokers in the main. I haven't tried any versions with Llanowar Elves or any ramp yet as I like a list that doesn't have dead top decks. Mono red is currently making the rounds and Chain Whirler is still out there.
Hardest Match ups have been anything with Thief of Sanity out of UB/x decks. I'm not sure we are unfavored but if that thing survives it's going to be a LONG match. I'm just getting into this arch type but I'm enjoying it.
Assassin's Trophy has been very Medium...I think 2 of in the MD is necessary but unlike modern where decks can get greedy, here in standard rmaping the opponent on T3 of 4 feels bad.
I have been crushing recently with this 75 recently, and built it after determining that certain UWx Control players try to milk the round clock by securing a game one win with Expansion // Explosion. It's easy to just get scumbagged into trying to win with so many dead draws reserved for aggro matchups, like the Dead Weights and Chupacabras of the world. Maindeck Angrath helps to correct those scenarios. He is also just generally good at chewing into opposing resources at a steady and speedy clip, as most mirrors usually maintain a ratio of one impact spell per turn, barring multiple Duress in one game. Therefore, their grip is usually stocked for Angrath to melt if they can't answer him immediately.
With a critical threat density from the spread of three different planeswalkers (Legendary spam can be very punishing) and double Eldest Reborn, your plan actually puts a clock on the control and mirror matches, so you can just freely jam spell after spell and keep the opponent on the backfoot, rather than durdle around playing through Nova Cleansing/Settle the Wreckage like generic Golgari midrange
This ensures that you can constantly pressure the opponent, or use Find // Finality and Arguel's Blood Fast for sweet, cheap value, or use Spyglass for very important information. It feels like you have so many ways to dunk on their wincons (and Spyglass/Scavenger to mitigate Search for Azcanta) that you don't need Trophy and V Contempt, which by their reactive nature help the opponent gas their hands up with counterspells before sticking a walker.
While I normally wouldn't take one matchup far more seriously than the others, I feel UWx is the only contender (because of the efficacy of Chemister's Insight) that puts us in check before the new Standard meta is completely solved for now. While I feel this deck has a lot of pull in the new meta because it's easy to tune for the mirror (with the above 75 you can sub out your Jadelights against the baseline GB decks and play Ritual of Soots & Find // Finality for attrition, and use your Scavengers to whittle away their long game) the one thing that is scary is getting clocked game one vs control or just a fast Ghalta deck, ergo the Price of Fame SB tech (which is somehow also relevant versus Angels.) While I'm still not keen on playing double Vraska's Contempt main, it seems like a necessary evil against aforementioned Ghalta/Angels matchups, while still being a good card across the board. Would like a smoother curve, but I'll settle for this one for now.
BG is incredibly grindy and resilient right now. Deck can often turn the corner out of nowhere. I dont think the Ferrox/Collector/etc builds belong in the convo. Thats just Steel Leaf Stompy splash for removal and Duress imo. There are however 2 other builds. Those relying heavily on GY shenanigans with Glowspore Shaman/Stitcher's Supplier/Izoni, Thousand-Eyed/Molderhulk and the explore version. I prefer the latter, simply because its easier to get around Tocatli Honor Guard than it is Remorseful Cleric/Sentinel Totem and it has a better red Matchup. Ive found Vraska, Golgari Queen quite underwhelming. She seems better suited for a token build. Probably still deserves a spot in the 75 but only as a 1-2 of. Need to do more testing to see if Dusk Legion Zealot is worth including as its a great target for the aforementioned Vraska as well as Plaguecrafter
I really want to make a blue splash work in my deck too.
I went 2-2 and my local fnm last night, and my two losses were pretty close games too. i think the deck is fun to play and it feels strong, I just miss having blue hehe. I think my problem is just always "what do I take out?" when I sideboard, because the main deck is really strong.
The mana base is strong enough to support a blue splash.
Do you think it would be worth having two or three Thief of sanity in the sideboard against the mirror? I think it could be insane if it can survive all the spot removal in these decks and get one or two hits in.
I had Muldrotha, 4 negate and 2 disdainful strokes in the sideboard at first, but Muldrotha ate removal every single time it landed on the board.
Ive been running this list the passed couple days making tweaks here and there. Wildgrowth Walker is pretty insane. I can pretty consistently have him at 4/6 or 5/7 by turn 3 which also leaves me at possibly 30+ life. I have eaten opposing carnage tyrants with this thing. Enter the Unknown has been surprisingly fantastic as well. The extra ramp it provides and being able to supercharge Wildgrowth with a jadelight > enter on t3 feels amazing. Currently with how golgari is setup I feel if you aren't doing some kind of recursion you are doing it wrong. Findbroker has made for the most amazing plays be it getting back a clutch chupa or eldest reborn, or just bringing back a planeswalker. Find//Finality speaks for itself; card is amazing and in this list wildgrowth, jadelight, findbroker and izoni all easily outgrow an survive the board sweep. Lastly, I have been trying Liliana, the Necromancer out the last day or so and this card puts in a ton of work against certain matchups. Don't sleep on the +1 and being able to shock your opponent every turn for free when the board is all mucked up. And the -1 is just great with getting extra value back. This was a 3rd Findbroker but I think moving forward I will keep using Lili. Will update the sideboard later, its pretty basic at this point. What you guys think?
How on Earth are you achieving a 4/6 (let alone 5/7!!) Wildgrowth Walker by turn 3? I think that's almost impossible. Earliest you can cast him is turn 2, and then best case scenario you explore twice on turn 3 leaving him 3/5. If you are counting on having 2+ Unknowns in your first 10 cards then I'd say that's not a reliable assessment.
Don't get me wrong, I love the card. I'm still building up my collection on Arena so I don't have a perfect list yet, but BG explore is definitely the tier 1 version of the archetype (IMO)
-EDIT-
Ok, I didn't realize that if you make HIM explore, then he can get counters from that and also from his ability. Please disregard my criticism
Hello everyone! I've naturally fallen into playing B/G Midrange on Magic Arena.
NOTE: I'm playing "budget" on Arena. I'm only using the wildcards I naturally earn to keep working on this deck. Also, I'm currently playing the single game per match ladder. I don't have a sideboard. I am working my way up to a competitive deck/play/sideboarding.
What has been kicking my ass is ritual of soot and find/finality. I'm considering adding in my 2 kitesail freebooters to combat this. As was mentioned previously, it's hard to have so many "dead" cards against control decks. Ravenous Chupacabra is one of them. U/B Control is my most nefarious opponent, nearly unbeatable without a sideboard.
My deck handles aggro/midrange matchups pretty well. I've been trying to bulk up the card advantage to fight control, but it seems to be a losing battle. However, Midnight Reaper has been an all-star when he shows up. I'm considering going up to 4 copies as he is almost always draws you a card or gets in for damage. Also, opponents target him for removal often, so having 4 may not be as bad as I initially thought. I feel like my deck needs to consistently be playing 2-for-1s in order to keep up with control.
My deck struggles with closing out the game in a timely manner. I took out Doom Whisperer recently (I have 2 copies) because I needed to lower the curve/play fewer mana. By cutting him and adding 2 llanowar elves, I was able to get the deck down to 23 lands. I feel like I miss him a bit. My games grind longer than I have power on the field to finish them.
Underrealm Lich has been an all star. I kept this in over Doom Whisperer and rated it well. This thing will close out games unless they have vraska's contempt or find/finality. The card advantage is crazy. The downside I've learned is that your opponent can target it for removal before combat phase, thus making it unable to attack that turn even if you make it indestructible. Still, it seems to win me the game even if it takes a turn or 2.
Not exactly sure where to take the deck from here, but I think more exploring is in order. Possibly another Golgari Pathfinder as he can be decent against control. I have 2 rare, 4 uncommon and 12 common wildcards at this point. Anyone have suggestions for improving my single-game-per-match deck? I have 4 pelt collectors already and I'm wondering if I should make room for those.
Also, has anyone considered Adventurous Impulse in place of llanowar elves or a mixture of the two? What are the pros and cons between the 2? I'm thinking of cutting a llanowar for an impulse... In my mind, llanowar is too easy to kill and doesn't provide a 2 for 1 scenario. Seems like digging for a land, or a 2 for 1 creature like midnight reaper/chupacabra/golgari pathfinder might be a better use of the 1 cost slot.
Vraska, Golgari Queen is actually unplayable. There isn't much you can feed into her +2 without being considered a net loss of tempo and/or resources. She would be great in a deck that incidentally makes tokens, or something that can always recur free cards eg. Emeria, the Sky Ruin, but there's nothing in a similar vein legal in Standard. Playing a card like Reassembling Skeleton to net some value is a huge tempo loss considering how that card lines up poorly against the format on its own. Anyone advocating that she's fine to just play, tick up without feeding into her plus, and then trying to ultimate, is someone who doesn't have enough data to understand how utterly dead that line of play is.
The best of GBx variants are going to scale well against Control, which means playing less Explore doofuses and more utility threats. It's just wrong to not be playing at least 3 Deathgorge Scavenger in your 75, because of how versatile and effective it is in medium to long games. Their plan is to usually just allow your inconsequential creatures get in the red zone for a while, set up Deafening Clarion + Ionize, then turn a corner. In order to fight that, you need cards that make up for the net loss and still put enough pressure on control to be dealt with immediately.
The logic behind why a build with many Explore creatures can be such a good way to net value is because you can cash in with them by either drawing lands to replace them or by milling your dead draws (Spot removal vs Control or expensive value spells vs aggro) in game ones. However, after you board out your dead cards, is your deck REALLY well designed if you actually want to mill through some of your cards? Mostly everything needs to be high-impact, and so if you only have a few specific cards you want to draw into and are milling through dead draws on the regular, your explore creatures pulling their weight means your deck sucks when they can't always draw lands, because of the lack of efficacy from the cards you build around them with.
Conversely, if your deck is lined with all effective plays, then your ability to run out Explore creatures very rarely benefits you because they are just poorly scaled vanilla beaters compared to the Steel Leaf decks that have value spells for the late game in the board. Since control wants to stiff-arm your weaker creatures, then Cleansing Nova or Settle your Carnage Tyrant(s), you are only playing into their plan by shoving fodder onto the board for them to wipe. Avoiding this strategy is similar to when UW control in the last standard decided they didn't necessarily need to play Torrential Gearhulk, since Teferi and/or Approach were enough to win games, so if they eschewed Torrential from their main it would likely blank opposing Abrades, Disintegrations, etc. The creatures I line my main with all fulfill the same plan of trying to avoid needing to absolutely flood the board to pressure lethal damage, only to help the opponent play around your threat density accordingly.
Jadelight Ranger is the exception to this rule of course, as she can be very effective on her own. There are just too many good plays in the 1 to 2 CMC slots for the deck to go in that direction and reliably maintain some form of net value in the long term without resolving multiple 5+ CMC bombastic endgame spells.
Wow! Thank you so much. I was starting to intuit what you were saying in my gameplay after adding Vraska, Golgari Queen. Deafening Clarion and the other boardwipes have been ruining my day. Often during my games I notice I'm just drawing into a bunch of lands. It's just too punishing to play a deck full of creatures that die to all of the most common boardwipes.
I'm trying to decide if splashing blue for some negate/Chemister's Insight might make this deck worth playing (help me beat control.) Otherwise I'm leaning toward going U/B/g control. It just seems like the counterspells, boardwipes and card draw in the current meta overpower this midrange deck.
What are your opinions? Is U/B control better than this G/B midrange archetype? Or would adding blue/another color or cards make this deck more competitive?
Wow! Thank you so much. I was starting to intuit what you were saying in my gameplay after adding Vraska, Golgari Queen. Deafening Clarion and the other boardwipes have been ruining my day. Often during my games I notice I'm just drawing into a bunch of lands. It's just too punishing to play a deck full of creatures that die to all of the most common boardwipes.
I'm trying to decide if splashing blue for some negate/Chemister's Insight might make this deck worth playing (help me beat control.) Otherwise I'm leaning toward going U/B/g control. It just seems like the counterspells, boardwipes and card draw in the current meta overpower this midrange deck.
What are your opinions? Is U/B control better than this G/B midrange archetype? Or would adding blue/another color or cards make this deck more competitive?
Chemister's Insight has a very distinct push and pull conflict with a lot of GB's common lines. You don't want to net value from a draw spell at 4CMC since you are sandbagging your turn instead of playing proactively. You would rather develop tempo by adding to your board since you are supposed to be the instigator in long games, not the detractor. If somehow you can find the blue splash to be profitable, I would suggest a build that maintains synergy with Muldrotha as a one or two of. It's very low impact the turn it's played, but your chances of winning scale tremendously for every turn past the 2nd one that it's out.
UB control simply doesn't have the tools to keep churning out answers and dealing with the opponent. The Level one of this standard meta is GBx Mid and UWx Teferi Control.
I don't think adding blue to GB helps it win, since most of why it is so good is its versatility in being able to attrition and outlast aggro with its consistent manabase. Adding a bunch of shocks and checklands on top of the GB suite is pressing, and it doesn't improve your percentages quite that much. If you're asking my opinion, I would recommend my list in post #42 lol
In my explore list (which mind you is still in the works) I find Vraska Queen very useful. Only as a 1-of but she almost always has relevant targets for her +1, mostly excess land drawn. Also any Squire that didn't get his explore counter is an easy choice.
Her ultimate has won me two games so far. And her -3 is pretty clutch for dealing with some troublesome non-creature permanents.
4 Wildgrowth Walker
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Merfolk Branchwalker
3 Ravenous Chupacabra
4 Jadelight Ranger
1 Izoni, Thousand-Eyed
2 Golgari Findbroker
1 The Eldest Reborn
Land
7 Forest
6 Swamp
2 Field of Ruin
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Vraska's Contempt
3 Assassin's Trophy
Sorcery
4 Enter the Unknown
3 Find // Finality
Planeswalker
2 Vraska, Relic Seeker
1 Liliana, the Necromancer
Not denigrating anything...and as far as validity of it...I leave that one on you. I haven't even posted a build in this thread.
Not even going to entertain this. The saltiness is strong in this one.
-Stay Frosty
This format as a whole is VERY grindy and dependent on two-for-oneing your oponnent on a regular basis. If you run out of gas with decks like this and Red Frenzy running around you will get blown out of the water nearly every match. For this reason alone I do not think one drop creatures are needed in this deck aside from if you choose to go the Llanowar Elf route to ensure turn 3 Chupacabra's or turn 4-5 relic seekers, though if you're slamming relic seeker that early you're probably doing something wrong. That being said
NOT PLAYING RELIC SEEKER IS A MISTAKE and we do not need 4 main deck Trophy's. I feel the correct direction with this deck is grinding your opponent out with incremental card advantage and finishing with Planeswalkers.
Enough spot removal thats cheap and early on is essential as we don't want to let decks like Mono U wizards get under us early on and out tempo us. Cast Down should be no less than 2 of in the main deck and I personally am finding Dead Weightto be good for those match ups.
With the rise of GW tokens and its prevalence on the meta not playing some main deck board sweeper is feeling like a mistake. If you choose not to run Find/Finality a Plague Mare in the main deck will still help you win games you would otherwise get blown out of.
My updated decklist
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
4 Jadelight Ranger
3 Ravenous Chupacabra
3 Golgari Findbroker
1 District Guide
1 Plague Mare
3 Cast Down
3 Assassin's Trophy
2 The Eldest Reborn
1 Find//Finality
1 Treasure Map
Planeswalkers: 6
3 Vraska, Relic Seeker
3 Vraska, Golgari Queen
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
8 Forest
8 Swamp
Main deck Plague Mare because tokens are everyone on arena and I'm playing Treasure Map instead of Blood Fast as the loss of life I feel is too much and map combos well with Vraska. I'm still not 100% sold on Llanowar Elves as this deck wants to get into the mid-late game every game and top decking elf feels terrible, but there are games where you start with a T1 Elf and completely blow your opponent out early on so i'm a bit torn.
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
I think the only problem is due to opportunity cost and/or curve considerations.
1 Izoni, Thousand-Eyed
2 Ravenous Chupacabra
2 Golgari Findbroker
4 Knight of Autumn
4 Jadelight Ranger
4 Druid of the Cowl
4 Seeker's Squire
2 Merfolk Branchwalker
Spells
2 Vraska, Relic Seeker
2 The Eldest Reborn
4 Vraska's Contempt
4 Find // Finality
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Sunpetal Grove
2 Isolated Chapel
3 Memorial to Folly
3 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Vine Mare
1 Golgari Findbroker
2 Remorseful Cleric
2 Assassin's Trophy
2 Cast Down
2 Arguel's Blood Fast
4 Duress
So is Knight of Autumn worth the splash? I think its versatility is, especially with all the recursion of permanents. Remorseful Cleric in the side is another splash for the mirror, as I feel its effect and evasion is better than Deathgorge Scavenger in that match up. I could be wrong, but at least you're guaranteed to take your opponent's graveyard if it ever resolves.
Without Trophy in the main I can go with Contempts, which I think is still better than Trophy if I'm playing Autumn.
I keep going back and forth between Llanowar Elves, Druid of the Cowl, and Wildgrowth Walker. Settled with Druid as I don't have important 3CMC plays but still want the ramp. Walker is better against aggro but at least Druid blocks well. I think it's just how much red decks I'm expecting.
I wish I could add Molderhulk but that's just overkill. I experimented with a build heavier on Izoni with Trostani but it was trying to be too cute and cut it.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
So I have been trying some different things on my Stompy Rock list and ended up with something that has swept the field, though control decks are still an issue.
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
2 Golgari Guildgate
10 Forest
3 Swamp
(29) Creature Spells
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Pelt Collector
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
3 Kraul Harpooner
4 Steel Leaf Champion
2 Thrashing Brontodon
2 Midnight Reaper
2 Nullhide Ferox
2 Vine Mare
2 Doom Whisperer
3 Assassin's Trophy
2 Cast Down
1 Find // Finality
2 Vraska, Golgari Queen
4 Duress
2 Graveyard Marshal
2 Plaguecrafter
2 Golden Demise
2 Beast Whisperer
1 Vine Mare
2 Carnage Tyrant
As I said, the control match is hit or miss. Depending on my curve. Any suggestions for it?
Imo, splashing white and going Knight of Autumn does feel like the correct move. My issue is when sideboarding in duress
Do you plan on playing it T1/T2/T3 or T4?
-Stay Frosty
Like with any other game with any other deck that plays with Duress, it depends on the scenario. I'll play it if I need to see what's in their hand to make better correct lines of play, to take a crucial boardwipe or Teferi that's coming down soon, etc. I'm not sure why you are questioning Duress of all cards in the sideboard when it's the one card every GB deck is going to have in the side.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
-Wasn't referring to you...It wouldn't have really mattered for you anyways.
Against the control matchups you would be facing targeted removal. A reasonable call would be Thorn Lieutenant as he leaves a body unless he gets exiled.
Imo, splashing white and going Knight of Autumn does feel like the correct move. My issue is when sideboarding in duress
but I suppose that is case by case since SLC will be in there no matter which matchup.
-Stay Frosty
To be fair, I'm not saying Knight of Autumn is bad, I just don't understand it's inclusion. Unless you just need lifegain to help get you to the finish line.
So here's my take on Sulti Midrange.
4x Doom Whisperer
4x Drover of the Mighty
4x Glowspore Shaman
3x Muldrotha, the Gravetide
4x Nullhide Ferox
4x Pelt Collector
4x Plaguecrafter
3x Ravenous Chupacabra
Spells: (7)
3x Assassin's Trophy
4x Chart a Course
1x Drowned Catacomb
3x Forest
4x Hinterland Harbor
1x Island
4x Overgrown Tomb
1x Swamp
4x Watery Grave
4x Woodland Cemetery
1x Woodland Stream
1x Carnage Tyrant
2x Dead Weight
2x Plague Mare
1x Phyrexian Scriptures
1x Ravenous Chupacabra
2x Ritual of Soot
1x The Eldest Reborn
2x Thrashing Brontodon
2x Vraska's Contempt
1x Vraska, Relic Seeker
Very quick background, In researching and building this list upon spoiler season I tested several cards and found out several interesting facts. First to my disappointment, Vraska, Golgari Queen was not what I wanted to her to be. At least with the style of deck I had wanted to run. I originally thought she'd be amazing with Muldrotha, the Gravetide but found out too many times she'd come down on an empty board and didn't do anything. So I moved on without her.
It didn't take long to figure out running anything less that 4 of both Doom Whisperer and Nullhide Ferox is a mistake. They are to good to leave out. After gold fishing around 20 or games I found I was drawing too many lands so I cut and haven't looked back since. Found that 23 feels really good.
So I finally got to play some actual games. I will not get into to much detail right now but at both FNM, and a Win-a-Box I went 2-1.
FNM
Naya Tokens
0-2 He drew 5 Conclave Tribunal in the two games. This was before I upp't the Trophy's to 3(2) and I had only 1 Brontodon in the Side. Still felt good about the games.
Mono green
2-0 not even close.
GW Tokens
2-1 Little better prepared.
Win-a-Box
Sulti Midrange
2-0 I felt I tutored for every card.
Mono(4-color)Red Dragon's
2-1 His list can't deal with Ferox's.
Mono Red
0-2 I need to play this MU a lot more. He had an awesome hand game one and I nearly beat him, game two, I sat at 3 mana with 2 Ferox'x in my hand. I again, nearly beat him.
Jeski Control
2-1 This was a difficult match but Ferox is obviously a big deal here. Vraska out of the side also fared very well.
Both nights I lost to the deck whom took 1st. I can't argue that.
Lots of games to be played yet before I decide more. The sideboard was as broad as I could make it without knowing the meta and only what a couple of people were playing. After the first weekend of test games and actual match games played the only thing I'd change currently is maybe something as lame as Druid of the Cowl in for Glowspore Shaman. They did their jobs but sort of at a mediocre pace. They are good with Muldrotha obviously. but I feel the deck ran best when I played a Turn 2 Drover of the Mighty. I know the Shaman has more synergy with the Pelt Collectors and Muldrotha but I think I want as many turn 2 mana dorks as I can. Turn 3 Ferox's are amazing!
I plan to put all my standard time into this list and do as much testing as I possibly can.
hatred
I will flay the skin from your flesh,
the flesh from your bones,
and scrape your bones dry,
and still you will not have suffered enough!
Quote the Ryxsyn;
NeVeRMoRe!
You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain!
-Harvey Dent
Hardest Match ups have been anything with Thief of Sanity out of UB/x decks. I'm not sure we are unfavored but if that thing survives it's going to be a LONG match. I'm just getting into this arch type but I'm enjoying it.
Assassin's Trophy has been very Medium...I think 2 of in the MD is necessary but unlike modern where decks can get greedy, here in standard rmaping the opponent on T3 of 4 feels bad.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
2 Kitesail Freebooter
2 Deathgorge Scavenger
2 District Guide
3 Jadelight Ranger
2 Plaguecrafter
2 Golgari Findbroker
3 Ravenous Chupacabra
2 Angrath, the Flame-Chained
1 Vivien Reid
2 Vraska, Relic Seeker
1 Treasure Map
1 Arguel's Blood Fast
2 Fungal Infection
1 The Eldest Reborn
2 Assassin's Trophy
1 Vraska's Contempt
1 Price of Fame
1 Find // Finality
1 Field of Ruin
2 Memorial to Folly
1 Golgari Guildgate
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Dragonskull Summit
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
5 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Kitesail Freebooter
1 Banefire
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 The Eldest Reborn
2 Moment of Craving
3 Duress
2 Ritual of Soot
1 Deathgorge Scavenger
1 Find // Finality
2 Vraska's Contempt
With a critical threat density from the spread of three different planeswalkers (Legendary spam can be very punishing) and double Eldest Reborn, your plan actually puts a clock on the control and mirror matches, so you can just freely jam spell after spell and keep the opponent on the backfoot, rather than durdle around playing through Nova Cleansing/Settle the Wreckage like generic Golgari midrange
You can actually take this 75 and go
-3 Ravenous Chupacabra
-2 Assassin's Trophy
-2 Fungal Infection
-1 Vraska's Contempt
-1 Price of Fame
then sub in
1 Find // Finality
1 Kitesail Freebooter
1 Deathgorge Scavenger
3 Duress
1 The Eldest Reborn
1 Banefire
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
The end result for your postboard plan vs. Control:
3 Kitesail Freebooter
3 Deathgorge Scavenger
2 District Guide
3 Jadelight Ranger
2 Plaguecrafter
2 Golgari Findbroker
3 Duress
1 Banefire
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Angrath, the Flame-Chained
1 Vivien Reid
2 Vraska, Relic Seeker
1 Arguel's Blood Fast
1 Treasure Map
2 The Eldest Reborn
2 Find // Finality
1 Field of Ruin
2 Memorial to Folly
1 Golgari Guildgate
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Dragonskull Summit
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
5 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Mountain
This ensures that you can constantly pressure the opponent, or use Find // Finality and Arguel's Blood Fast for sweet, cheap value, or use Spyglass for very important information. It feels like you have so many ways to dunk on their wincons (and Spyglass/Scavenger to mitigate Search for Azcanta) that you don't need Trophy and V Contempt, which by their reactive nature help the opponent gas their hands up with counterspells before sticking a walker.
While I normally wouldn't take one matchup far more seriously than the others, I feel UWx is the only contender (because of the efficacy of Chemister's Insight) that puts us in check before the new Standard meta is completely solved for now. While I feel this deck has a lot of pull in the new meta because it's easy to tune for the mirror (with the above 75 you can sub out your Jadelights against the baseline GB decks and play Ritual of Soots & Find // Finality for attrition, and use your Scavengers to whittle away their long game) the one thing that is scary is getting clocked game one vs control or just a fast Ghalta deck, ergo the Price of Fame SB tech (which is somehow also relevant versus Angels.) While I'm still not keen on playing double Vraska's Contempt main, it seems like a necessary evil against aforementioned Ghalta/Angels matchups, while still being a good card across the board. Would like a smoother curve, but I'll settle for this one for now.
2 Doom Whisperer
4 Glowspore Shaman
1 Izoni, Thousand-Eyed
3 Jadelight Ranger
4 Molderhulk
4 Plaguecrafter
4 Ravenous Chupacabra
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Find//Finality
1 Vraska, Relic Seeker
2 Watery Grave
4 Woodland Cemetery
3 Drowned Catacomb
2 Forest
2 Swamp
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Memorial to Folly
1 Island
3 Hinterland Harbor
1 Deathgorge Scavenger
2 Disdainful Stroke
3 Duress
2 Golden Demise
2 Hostage Taker
1 Izoni, Thousand-Eyed
3 Necrotic Wound
Jori en, Ruin Diver UR
Anafenza, The Foremost BGW
Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
Vela the Night-Clad UB
I went 2-2 and my local fnm last night, and my two losses were pretty close games too. i think the deck is fun to play and it feels strong, I just miss having blue hehe. I think my problem is just always "what do I take out?" when I sideboard, because the main deck is really strong.
The mana base is strong enough to support a blue splash.
Do you think it would be worth having two or three Thief of sanity in the sideboard against the mirror? I think it could be insane if it can survive all the spot removal in these decks and get one or two hits in.
I had Muldrotha, 4 negate and 2 disdainful strokes in the sideboard at first, but Muldrotha ate removal every single time it landed on the board.
How on Earth are you achieving a 4/6 (let alone 5/7!!) Wildgrowth Walker by turn 3? I think that's almost impossible. Earliest you can cast him is turn 2, and then best case scenario you explore twice on turn 3 leaving him 3/5. If you are counting on having 2+ Unknowns in your first 10 cards then I'd say that's not a reliable assessment.
Don't get me wrong, I love the card. I'm still building up my collection on Arena so I don't have a perfect list yet, but BG explore is definitely the tier 1 version of the archetype (IMO)
-EDIT-
Ok, I didn't realize that if you make HIM explore, then he can get counters from that and also from his ability. Please disregard my criticism
Draft My Cube!
NOTE: I'm playing "budget" on Arena. I'm only using the wildcards I naturally earn to keep working on this deck. Also, I'm currently playing the single game per match ladder. I don't have a sideboard. I am working my way up to a competitive deck/play/sideboarding.
2x llanowar elves
2x Merfolk Branchwalker
2x Dusk Legion Zealot
1x Dire Fleet Captain
1x Thorn Lieutenant
2x Glowspore Shaman
3x Dryad Seekers
3x Midnight Reaper
1x Ruin Raider
1x Thrashing Brontodon
1x Jade Ranger
4x Ravenous Chupacabra
2x Golgari Pathfinder
1x Underrealm Lich
1x Adventurous impulse
1x Dead Weight
4x Assassin's trophy
1x Masoleum Secrets
1x Vraska's Contempt
2x Vraska, Golgari Queen
1x Find/Finality
Land 23
7x Swamp
9x Forest
1x Foul Orchard
3x Overgrown Tomb
3x Woodland Cemetery
What has been kicking my ass is ritual of soot and find/finality. I'm considering adding in my 2 kitesail freebooters to combat this. As was mentioned previously, it's hard to have so many "dead" cards against control decks. Ravenous Chupacabra is one of them. U/B Control is my most nefarious opponent, nearly unbeatable without a sideboard.
My deck handles aggro/midrange matchups pretty well. I've been trying to bulk up the card advantage to fight control, but it seems to be a losing battle. However, Midnight Reaper has been an all-star when he shows up. I'm considering going up to 4 copies as he is almost always draws you a card or gets in for damage. Also, opponents target him for removal often, so having 4 may not be as bad as I initially thought. I feel like my deck needs to consistently be playing 2-for-1s in order to keep up with control.
My deck struggles with closing out the game in a timely manner. I took out Doom Whisperer recently (I have 2 copies) because I needed to lower the curve/play fewer mana. By cutting him and adding 2 llanowar elves, I was able to get the deck down to 23 lands. I feel like I miss him a bit. My games grind longer than I have power on the field to finish them.
Underrealm Lich has been an all star. I kept this in over Doom Whisperer and rated it well. This thing will close out games unless they have vraska's contempt or find/finality. The card advantage is crazy. The downside I've learned is that your opponent can target it for removal before combat phase, thus making it unable to attack that turn even if you make it indestructible. Still, it seems to win me the game even if it takes a turn or 2.
Not exactly sure where to take the deck from here, but I think more exploring is in order. Possibly another Golgari Pathfinder as he can be decent against control. I have 2 rare, 4 uncommon and 12 common wildcards at this point. Anyone have suggestions for improving my single-game-per-match deck? I have 4 pelt collectors already and I'm wondering if I should make room for those.
Also, has anyone considered Adventurous Impulse in place of llanowar elves or a mixture of the two? What are the pros and cons between the 2? I'm thinking of cutting a llanowar for an impulse... In my mind, llanowar is too easy to kill and doesn't provide a 2 for 1 scenario. Seems like digging for a land, or a 2 for 1 creature like midnight reaper/chupacabra/golgari pathfinder might be a better use of the 1 cost slot.
The best of GBx variants are going to scale well against Control, which means playing less Explore doofuses and more utility threats. It's just wrong to not be playing at least 3 Deathgorge Scavenger in your 75, because of how versatile and effective it is in medium to long games. Their plan is to usually just allow your inconsequential creatures get in the red zone for a while, set up Deafening Clarion + Ionize, then turn a corner. In order to fight that, you need cards that make up for the net loss and still put enough pressure on control to be dealt with immediately.
The logic behind why a build with many Explore creatures can be such a good way to net value is because you can cash in with them by either drawing lands to replace them or by milling your dead draws (Spot removal vs Control or expensive value spells vs aggro) in game ones. However, after you board out your dead cards, is your deck REALLY well designed if you actually want to mill through some of your cards? Mostly everything needs to be high-impact, and so if you only have a few specific cards you want to draw into and are milling through dead draws on the regular, your explore creatures pulling their weight means your deck sucks when they can't always draw lands, because of the lack of efficacy from the cards you build around them with.
Conversely, if your deck is lined with all effective plays, then your ability to run out Explore creatures very rarely benefits you because they are just poorly scaled vanilla beaters compared to the Steel Leaf decks that have value spells for the late game in the board. Since control wants to stiff-arm your weaker creatures, then Cleansing Nova or Settle your Carnage Tyrant(s), you are only playing into their plan by shoving fodder onto the board for them to wipe. Avoiding this strategy is similar to when UW control in the last standard decided they didn't necessarily need to play Torrential Gearhulk, since Teferi and/or Approach were enough to win games, so if they eschewed Torrential from their main it would likely blank opposing Abrades, Disintegrations, etc. The creatures I line my main with all fulfill the same plan of trying to avoid needing to absolutely flood the board to pressure lethal damage, only to help the opponent play around your threat density accordingly.
Jadelight Ranger is the exception to this rule of course, as she can be very effective on her own. There are just too many good plays in the 1 to 2 CMC slots for the deck to go in that direction and reliably maintain some form of net value in the long term without resolving multiple 5+ CMC bombastic endgame spells.
I'm trying to decide if splashing blue for some negate/Chemister's Insight might make this deck worth playing (help me beat control.) Otherwise I'm leaning toward going U/B/g control. It just seems like the counterspells, boardwipes and card draw in the current meta overpower this midrange deck.
What are your opinions? Is U/B control better than this G/B midrange archetype? Or would adding blue/another color or cards make this deck more competitive?
Chemister's Insight has a very distinct push and pull conflict with a lot of GB's common lines. You don't want to net value from a draw spell at 4CMC since you are sandbagging your turn instead of playing proactively. You would rather develop tempo by adding to your board since you are supposed to be the instigator in long games, not the detractor. If somehow you can find the blue splash to be profitable, I would suggest a build that maintains synergy with Muldrotha as a one or two of. It's very low impact the turn it's played, but your chances of winning scale tremendously for every turn past the 2nd one that it's out.
UB control simply doesn't have the tools to keep churning out answers and dealing with the opponent. The Level one of this standard meta is GBx Mid and UWx Teferi Control.
I don't think adding blue to GB helps it win, since most of why it is so good is its versatility in being able to attrition and outlast aggro with its consistent manabase. Adding a bunch of shocks and checklands on top of the GB suite is pressing, and it doesn't improve your percentages quite that much. If you're asking my opinion, I would recommend my list in post #42 lol
Her ultimate has won me two games so far. And her -3 is pretty clutch for dealing with some troublesome non-creature permanents.
Draft My Cube!