Overview: Destructive Force was a popular archetype in pre-MBS standard for a short period of time. The ability to drop a win condition (a Titan or planeswalker) and then following with a board wipe + mass land destruction was highly effective. However, standard changed and Destructive Force's viability started to wane as Primeval Titan, counter magic, and fast aggro grew more popular. A resolved Primeval Titan against Destructive Force essentially invalidated the entire deck. Prime Time could not be swept away with Destructive Force itself, and within one or two combat phases put an opponent's landbase far out of reach. Spell Pierce rose to prominence shortly before Worlds, and continued to allow blue players a highly efficient, tempo changing, one mana answer to the highly bloated mana cost of Destructive Force. Lastly, fast red aggro continued to rear its ugly head, beating hard and fast before Destructive Force could even be cast. All of these issues eventually relegated RUG Destructive Force decks to casual FNMs, and then obsoletion.
So What Changed?
Well, a number of things. Notably, however, the following cards were recently printed:
The new Chandra has fantastic synergy with nearly every facet of RUG D-Force. She provides a means of pseudo-removal in her ping ability, which is relevant against a high number of creatures in the format. More importantly, however, she can Reverberate nearly all of our spells. She turns Preordains and Explores into raw card advantage. She makes Rampant Growth and Cultivate land ramp on steroids. Most importantly, however, she turns a single Destructive Force into a monumental spell. No longer do we have to worry about a resolved Primeval Titan or a Valakut player with 12+ land. A double D-Force wipes for TEN damage and forces a sacrifice of TEN lands. If that isn't game ending, I don't know what is.
Sad Robot is the perfect, and I mean perfect, card for a deck like this. It fits the curve of a turn two Rampant Growth/Explore, it ramps itself, and it can serve as an early blocker. Moreover, if you're ready to cast Destructive Force and reset the board, yet have a few Jens on the battlefield, no worries. Jens replaces itself as far as CA goes. One of the major knocks against Destructive Force decks were that you could never play powerful creature ramp like Lotus Cobra, Oracle of Mul Daya, Birds of Paradise, etc., and therefore always fell behind on board presence. Sad Robot alleviates a lot of these problems.
Beast Within has been a hotly debated card since it was first leaked. The ability to destroy a permanent at instant speed, for only three mana, is undoubtedly powerful. However, leaving a 3/3 behind is nothing to be ignored. Beast Within is a card that fits nicely into Destructive Force. Another fatal flaw of D-Force decks of old was their inability to deal with a resolved threat, often a planeswalker, before they could drop their own. Beast Within takes care of anything and everything, and the 3/3 can be easily swept away with a following Destructive Force.
In general, we're entering a metagame where creature decks will surely be a hot ticket, Valakut will once again be a top deck, and control decks can no longer rely on Jace, the Mind Sculptor to refill an empty hand and rebuild an empty board. In my opinion, with the recent inclusions available, it seems like a good time to dust off our Destructive Forces and wildfire our way to victory once again.
no chance vs red unfortunately, its just too fast theyll get you to 3 life when u force them and then they play a land and bolt you.
Which "red"? Goblins? RDW? Shrine Red? Big Red? Red on a Goblin Guide draw? Red on a Grim Lavamancer draw? You're terribly vague.
There are sideboard answers for red, just like with any other deck. Simulacrum is pretty important in these matchups, as they don't want to waste removal on it.
As mentioned, Baloths can come out of the board. Or I can board in the Twin combo with them completely unprepared for it and just win on turn four.
See how easy it is to make broad, generalized statements?
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Im obviously talking about the only competitive red deck, rdw which will be improved with m12. Obstinate baloth can be good.. if you draw more than 1 even then it might not be good enough. Rdw only needs 2-4 lands to win and possibly even 1 after a destructive force. As for twin combo, how often do you get combo pieces when even the real twin deck has problems getting combo pieces? Oh and they do want to waste removal on simulacrum, after all they need targets for searing blaze.
Thing is you're doing nothing while ramping to a t4 (if lucky) or turn 5 force, which in that time you will be taking a beating. If you manage to play baloth, your not ramping so you'll be playing force later than normal which nullifies the life gain of baloth because they can finish you off with the turn(s) you lost ramping
Try testing vs red, because I already did. I know it's not the only deck in the format but it will be something to look out for. I feel like this deck is similar to mass polymorph. Any control player can play around the deck and save counters for force once they know whats going on. I guess that's what twin is for but you better make sure you're getting those combo pieces
maybe i'm missing something but wouldn't you want to run slagstorm to polish off the 3/3s your leaving behind with beast within on your opponents side?
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Solemn Simulacrum seems to be a bit overrated in this deck, and I think 4 Frost Titan is definately correct. I hadn't really considered Chandra, The Firebrand, but she seems alright. Twin combo in the board seems really bad unless you're forcing in 4 Preordain + 4 Ponder, and even Jace Beleren perhaps. The idea is to cast T3 Garruk -> T4 Destructive Force, or to cast a T4 Frost Titan followed by said Force or a second Frosty...
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Maybe I'm missing something, but why run Blue at all? 4 Preordain and 3 Mana Leaks don't seem to justify it? Is it just to find the destructive forces? Why not go to 4 D-Force, and drop blue entirely. Primeval, Inferno and Wurmcoil all seem like fine substitutes for Frost Titan, ending the game in a real hurry. Then maybe you can squeeze in enough mountains to run Koth, who also -2's into D-Force nicely.
maybe i'm missing something but wouldn't you want to run slagstorm to polish off the 3/3s your leaving behind with beast within on your opponents side?
uh... because your gonna play D.Force a few turns later, toasting all those 3/3s left behind?...
Maybe I'm missing something, but why run Blue at all? 4 Preordain and 3 Mana Leaks don't seem to justify it? Is it just to find the destructive forces? Why not go to 4 D-Force, and drop blue entirely. Primeval, Inferno and Wurmcoil all seem like fine substitutes for Frost Titan, ending the game in a real hurry. Then maybe you can squeeze in enough mountains to run Koth, who also -2's into D-Force nicely.
Actually I prefer Frost Titan over Inferno/Primeval/Wurmcoil in D.Force... just because he taps down any land/creature your opponent has that remains in play...
and his counter shield makes it hard for your opponent to remove him once you played a D.Force with him around...
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Just to let you guys know, we've been testing this trying desperately to make it work considering we pioneered this deck this time last year. It just isn't good enough to be played at a nationals level, the loss of jace is still to great even with the m12 cards.
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Overview: Destructive Force was a popular archetype in pre-MBS standard for a short period of time. The ability to drop a win condition (a Titan or planeswalker) and then following with a board wipe + mass land destruction was highly effective. However, standard changed and Destructive Force's viability started to wane as Primeval Titan, counter magic, and fast aggro grew more popular. A resolved Primeval Titan against Destructive Force essentially invalidated the entire deck. Prime Time could not be swept away with Destructive Force itself, and within one or two combat phases put an opponent's landbase far out of reach. Spell Pierce rose to prominence shortly before Worlds, and continued to allow blue players a highly efficient, tempo changing, one mana answer to the highly bloated mana cost of Destructive Force. Lastly, fast red aggro continued to rear its ugly head, beating hard and fast before Destructive Force could even be cast. All of these issues eventually relegated RUG Destructive Force decks to casual FNMs, and then obsoletion.
So What Changed?
Well, a number of things. Notably, however, the following cards were recently printed:
Chandra, the Firebrand
The new Chandra has fantastic synergy with nearly every facet of RUG D-Force. She provides a means of pseudo-removal in her ping ability, which is relevant against a high number of creatures in the format. More importantly, however, she can Reverberate nearly all of our spells. She turns Preordains and Explores into raw card advantage. She makes Rampant Growth and Cultivate land ramp on steroids. Most importantly, however, she turns a single Destructive Force into a monumental spell. No longer do we have to worry about a resolved Primeval Titan or a Valakut player with 12+ land. A double D-Force wipes for TEN damage and forces a sacrifice of TEN lands. If that isn't game ending, I don't know what is.
Solemn Simulacrum
Sad Robot is the perfect, and I mean perfect, card for a deck like this. It fits the curve of a turn two Rampant Growth/Explore, it ramps itself, and it can serve as an early blocker. Moreover, if you're ready to cast Destructive Force and reset the board, yet have a few Jens on the battlefield, no worries. Jens replaces itself as far as CA goes. One of the major knocks against Destructive Force decks were that you could never play powerful creature ramp like Lotus Cobra, Oracle of Mul Daya, Birds of Paradise, etc., and therefore always fell behind on board presence. Sad Robot alleviates a lot of these problems.
Beast Within
Beast Within has been a hotly debated card since it was first leaked. The ability to destroy a permanent at instant speed, for only three mana, is undoubtedly powerful. However, leaving a 3/3 behind is nothing to be ignored. Beast Within is a card that fits nicely into Destructive Force. Another fatal flaw of D-Force decks of old was their inability to deal with a resolved threat, often a planeswalker, before they could drop their own. Beast Within takes care of anything and everything, and the 3/3 can be easily swept away with a following Destructive Force.
In general, we're entering a metagame where creature decks will surely be a hot ticket, Valakut will once again be a top deck, and control decks can no longer rely on Jace, the Mind Sculptor to refill an empty hand and rebuild an empty board. In my opinion, with the recent inclusions available, it seems like a good time to dust off our Destructive Forces and wildfire our way to victory once again.
Sample Decklist
2 Frost Titan
4 Solemn Simulacrum
Planeswalkers
3 Chandra, the Firebrand
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
Spells
4 Preordain
4 Rampant Growth
4 Explore
3 Destructive Force
3 Mana Leak
2 Beast Within
4 Raging Ravine
3 Copperline Gorge
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Island
5 Forest
4 Mountain
4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Splinter Twin
4 Pyroclasm
3 Dismember
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3x Frost Titan
3x Solemn Simulacrum
Spells(27)
4x Chandra the Firebrand
4x Explore
4x Preordain
4x Rampant Growth
3x Beast Within
3x Destructive Force
3x Mana Leak
2x Garruk Wildspeaker
5x Island
4x Copperline Gorge
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Raging Ravine
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Forest
3x Mountain
4x Pyroclasm
3x Combust
3x Obstinate Baloth
2x Flashfreeze
2x Nature's Claim
1x Mana Leak
I like the Twin Combo in the SB but I think I would rather have more answers as opposed to having a shaky two card combo.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
Obstinate Baloth in the board says otherwise.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
Which "red"? Goblins? RDW? Shrine Red? Big Red? Red on a Goblin Guide draw? Red on a Grim Lavamancer draw? You're terribly vague.
There are sideboard answers for red, just like with any other deck. Simulacrum is pretty important in these matchups, as they don't want to waste removal on it.
As mentioned, Baloths can come out of the board. Or I can board in the Twin combo with them completely unprepared for it and just win on turn four.
See how easy it is to make broad, generalized statements?
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Currently Playing:
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Check out our EDH Cube! Constructive discussion welcomed. Hell, just a response would be nice.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8316611&postcount=1
Thing is you're doing nothing while ramping to a t4 (if lucky) or turn 5 force, which in that time you will be taking a beating. If you manage to play baloth, your not ramping so you'll be playing force later than normal which nullifies the life gain of baloth because they can finish you off with the turn(s) you lost ramping
Try testing vs red, because I already did. I know it's not the only deck in the format but it will be something to look out for. I feel like this deck is similar to mass polymorph. Any control player can play around the deck and save counters for force once they know whats going on. I guess that's what twin is for but you better make sure you're getting those combo pieces
D. Force => Exarch Twin SB instead of Exarch Twin => D. Force SB...
well the surprise factor for game two would be greater since they are expecting only RUG DF...
as for getting the Twin Combo, there seems to be enough filter/draw...
and yeah, I would like to see Beast Within #3 in the MD and probably #4 in the SB...
TBA
Projects under construction:
Standard:
- Werewolves... O_o
Others
- Sliver Overlord EDH
- Riku
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
uh... because your gonna play D.Force a few turns later, toasting all those 3/3s left behind?...
Actually I prefer Frost Titan over Inferno/Primeval/Wurmcoil in D.Force... just because he taps down any land/creature your opponent has that remains in play...
and his counter shield makes it hard for your opponent to remove him once you played a D.Force with him around...
TBA
Projects under construction:
Standard:
- Werewolves... O_o
Others
- Sliver Overlord EDH
- Riku