I can already see the **** storm coming from this one and that's fine. But somebody has to say this so that anybody who is new to this game and even thinking about getting into this Standard right now knows the truth and what they're in for.
Essentially you have 3 matches if you're playing competitively.
Aggro vs Aggro
Aggro vs Control
Control vs Control
When I say aggro I am also including mid range because in this Standard, things are so damn fast, it doesn't make that much of a difference. And yes, you've also got reanimator variations that can sneak in a win, but for the most part, what I've outlined above is it.
I want to primarily concentrate on the first one, aggro vs aggro because it seems that that's what most players today play. Yes, it is a turn dudes sideways world we live in. Deal with it. It's not going away.
But that's not what bothers me. This is.
I'm a crappy player. I freely admit it. The last 4 weeks prior to yesterday, I played my usual crappy combo and off the wall builds and won my obligatory one match each evening against who is usually the worst player at the LGS.
Yes, I'm that bad.
Last night, I said "screw it" and brought my Boros Aggro deck that I had been testing for about 2 months now. I haven't played it because I hate aggro as far as playing it. I don't mind playing against it. But I just find it boring to play. I knew going into last night that I wasn't going to have fun playing Magic. My fun was going to come from being with my friends.
Long story short, I was right. It was the most boring 5 matches I ever had in my life.
I also came in 5th for the evening, just missing top 4 losing in the top 8 pairings.
Everybody in the place was shocked. Land Boy made top 8? The world must be coming to an end. Everybody knows how bad I am. It's no secret.
So how was this even possible?
Simple. (Get your tin foil hats on because this is going to get ugly)
There is ZERO skill in playing aggro in this standard. ZERO.
There wasn't one game last night that I won because of my wonderful play skill, of which I have very little, especially when it comes to aggro because I almost NEVER play it.
But when your game goes something like this, game after game after game...
Turn 1 Champion
Turn 2 Boros Elite (swing for 2)
Turn 3 Silverblade, soul bond with Champion (swing for 7)
Turn 4 Hellrider (swing for game)
It's hard to lose.
Or get opponent down to 13 life (real easy to do in this Standard) and then just Blasphemous your Recokenner for game.
Or any other ridiculous 4 turn plays like when I had triple Reckonner one game.
I put literally zero thought into playing last night. Drop land, drop creature, swing.
It's what my 8 year old daughter did 16 years ago when SHE first learned this game.
Aggro vs aggro mirrors come down to who draws better. Nothing more, nothing less. I take no credit for any of my wins and no blame for any of my losses.
In 5 matches, there was only ONE game where I had to make a decision and it wasn't a hard one.
It was game 3 in the top 8. I was at 12 life. I had my opponent down to 3 life. I was swinging for the match on the next turn. I had a Firewing out and no way for him to block a flier. He had 9 damage on the field. He swung with everything. If I took it all, that would have brought me down to 3 life. Now, he's playing red so that means he could have had a Searing Spear in his hand and burned me for game and match. I didn't want to lose that way so I blocked one of his creatures with my silverblade that was untapped and only took 5 damage instead of 9 and went to 7 life.
That turn he top decked a Thragtusk. Played it second main phase and went to 8 life. I now had one creature (the firewing) could not kill him and was dead next turn. So I did the only thing I could do in this situation. I hit him for the 3, bringing him down to 5 and then played my Blasphemous Act and cleared the field, giving him the beast token and hoping I could top deck something to kill it like a reckonner.
It never came. He played Rancor on the token and I was dead in 2 turns. On the second turn I did draw a Silverblade, but with trample on the beast at down to 2 life, I was dead even if I blocked.
That's what that match came down to...a top decked Thragtusk.
There was no skill involved. He was dead if he didn't draw it.
This is RtR Standard. This is your typical aggro war. It's mindless and it's not a lot of fun for me. That was my only decision all night in 5 matches, to block a creature because I might have been burned to death otherwise.
That doesn't say a lot for this Standard. Not to me.
I know I'm going to get a whole ton of people who will tell me I'm wrong and this Standard is incredibly skillful and blah, blah, blah.
Like I said, I'm a crappy player. 4 weeks prior I won ONE match a night only because I finally got to play somebody who hardly knows how to play the game.
Last night I went 3-1 going into the top 8 without breaking a sweat.
And I was bored stiff. Had it not been for my friends, the night would have been better spent staying home cleaning the bathroom.
Now, having said all that, if you love playing aggro, or think you'll love playing aggro if you're just starting out, and love these kind of mindless luck sacks, then this Standard might just be for you.
Playing against control, you essentially have to do 20 before they pull a Terminus or Verdict. Otherwise, it's going to be very difficult to come back against their Planeswalkers and Obzedat, if they're playing it.
No, you can't overextend, but you can't hold back too much either. If they stabilize with Sorin you'll never break through. Sphinx will bury you in card advantage. That was my one match loss going into the top 8, against control. I had him down to 2 life game one but couldn't finish. I just wasn't fast enough. Again, no thought involved. Once that Verdict hit, I was done.
It is what it is. I've been playing this game long enough to recognize a luck sack format. And this one is at the top of the list of luck sack formats.
Why?
The answer is simple. The value creatures that we now get to play with are off the charts efficient. That's all there is to it. It doesn't take any brains to hit somebody with a 3/3 double striking champion on turn 3. Imagine that. Turn 3, a creature doing 6 damage. Even Goyf can't do that in Modern or Legacy unless you get ridiculously lucky with what cards are in the yard.
I can probably make top 8 every week for the rest of this Standard if I wanted to playing these mindless decks. But I'd never enjoy playing Magic again. So I'm going to go back to my stupid Battle of Wits, clone and defender decks and actually enjoy the deck I'm playing.
But if you're an aggro player, this Standard is your paradise.
I don't know why you speak around the forums with such an authoratative voice on Magic if, in a thread like this, you admit to being really, really bad at Magic.
People deserve a disclaimer or something. Lots of folks on this site are really dumb and think anyone who makes long posts is someone to whom they should pay attention.
I don't know why you speak around the forums with such an authoratative voice on Magic if, in a thread like this, you admit to being really, really bad at Magic.
People deserve a disclaimer or something. Lots of folks on this site are really dumb and think anyone who makes long posts is someone to whom they should pay attention.
I was making a point. Anybody who is bad at Magic can still win in this Standard if they play a mindless aggro deck.
if aggro is so mindless, then play a control deck.
usually it is the bad players that complain about how mindless aggro is.
And we have one more correct answer to finish the complaints of LBS' posts. 19 years of Magic and still complaining about how aggro is mindless, how combo is not being loved by WotC, how control is not being pushed enough because the lack of Counterspell and how Thragtusk is a mistake. I'm still afraid of even seeing where that link on his signature goes.
Go on mods, ban me, I regret nothing [2].
Even if you disagree with a user, please do not attack them instead.
If the format is that blistering fast, how do decks routinely wind up with 10-12 lands on the table by the end of the game?
10 - 12 lands? Not where I'm playing. Each match I won with no more than 5 lands out and no later than turn 6 with the exception of the very last game of the last match.
One match I finished in exactly 10 minutes. I was the first one done.
Show me the proof that aggro isn't a luck sack. I've clearly outlined my stance. Outline the line of play for Boros aggro that makes it such a rich, complex deck to play. I'll wait.
I entirely disagree with this. I would consider some of the aggro decks to be very skill testing. Some of them, not so much (Blitz).
Well, I'm not seeing them. Certainly not the one I played last night and not any of the ones I played against.
And everybody else. Instead of attacking me (this forum is great at doing that) how about addressing my points. I've laid out my argument explicitly. I've given my reasons for my opinions. So how about instead of taking pot shots at me, you address my arguments and show me how they're wrong with proof.
10 - 12 lands? Not where I'm playing. Each match I won with no more than 5 lands out and no later than turn 6 with the exception of the very last game of the last match.
One match I finished in exactly 10 minutes. I was the first one done.
Show me the proof that aggro isn't a luck sack. I've clearly outlined my stance. Outline the line of play for Boros aggro that makes it such a rich, complex deck to play. I'll wait.
People don't have to explain to you how aggro is skilled. Arnnaria was talking about other decks getting a bunch of lands out when facing aggro. Just because your local game store is full of aggro doesn't mean it is indictitive of the overall meta. Your first post casually dismisses Reanimator and lumps midrange in with aggro, even though the precise reason aggro and control are not dominating is because Reanimator and midrange are so good right now.
Your post has some points if its in reference to Blitz, but this is not an aggro format. It's just a format where BTE allows aggro to be faster than some previous years, but slower than other years yet.
It's still a Thragtusk/Restoration Angel format, first and foremost.
Because Boros is a bad deck, and this hand is outclassed by other aggro decks hands. Both Esper and UWR should lose to you game one, and that looks like an easily beatable sequence with either deck having an average keep.
Because Boros is a bad deck, and this hand is outclassed by other aggro decks hands. Both Esper and UWR should lose to you game one, and that looks like an easily beatable sequence with either deck having an average keep.
So you're saying I just got lucky last night. If that's so, doesn't that just reinforce my point that playing an aggro deck you can win just by being lucky?
What am I missing here because you seem to be making my point for me.
AH definitely has a lot more aggro decks than other stores I've been to Steve. We also seem to be missing a lot of people playing true midrange. The qualm about everything either being aggro decks or verdict decks is more of a store problem, in my opinion.
I also think there are plenty of board states where aggro players can be given highly subjective lines of play. I don't exactly see how Farseek->Huntmaster is all that complex either. Primal Surge and land destruction are obviously fun, but I don't think that necessarily makes them harder to play.
Who cares if you got lucky with a Boros deck? Someone beat my tier one deck on MTGO last night with an enchantment deck because I didn't know what the heck was going on game one and never drew a third land in game three. I doubt they're making a thread about it anywhere.
Luck is part of the game. Someone just won an event with a Blitz deck with all creatures and no sideboard. Burning Tree Emissary is that good. But that doesn't mean the sky is falling, it just means the midrange decks play more Centaur Healers now.
Essentially you have 3 matches if you're playing competitively.
Aggro vs Aggro
Aggro vs Control
Control vs Control
When I say aggro I am also including mid range because in this Standard, things are so damn fast, it doesn't make that much of a difference. And yes, you've also got reanimator variations that can sneak in a win, but for the most part, what I've outlined above is it.
I want to primarily concentrate on the first one, aggro vs aggro because it seems that that's what most players today play. Yes, it is a turn dudes sideways world we live in. Deal with it. It's not going away.
But that's not what bothers me. This is.
I'm a crappy player. I freely admit it. The last 4 weeks prior to yesterday, I played my usual crappy combo and off the wall builds and won my obligatory one match each evening against who is usually the worst player at the LGS.
Yes, I'm that bad.
Last night, I said "screw it" and brought my Boros Aggro deck that I had been testing for about 2 months now. I haven't played it because I hate aggro as far as playing it. I don't mind playing against it. But I just find it boring to play. I knew going into last night that I wasn't going to have fun playing Magic. My fun was going to come from being with my friends.
Long story short, I was right. It was the most boring 5 matches I ever had in my life.
I also came in 5th for the evening, just missing top 4 losing in the top 8 pairings.
Everybody in the place was shocked. Land Boy made top 8? The world must be coming to an end. Everybody knows how bad I am. It's no secret.
So how was this even possible?
Simple. (Get your tin foil hats on because this is going to get ugly)
There is ZERO skill in playing aggro in this standard. ZERO.
There wasn't one game last night that I won because of my wonderful play skill, of which I have very little, especially when it comes to aggro because I almost NEVER play it.
But when your game goes something like this, game after game after game...
Turn 1 Champion
Turn 2 Boros Elite (swing for 2)
Turn 3 Silverblade, soul bond with Champion (swing for 7)
Turn 4 Hellrider (swing for game)
It's hard to lose.
Or get opponent down to 13 life (real easy to do in this Standard) and then just Blasphemous your Recokenner for game.
Or any other ridiculous 4 turn plays like when I had triple Reckonner one game.
I put literally zero thought into playing last night. Drop land, drop creature, swing.
It's what my 8 year old daughter did 16 years ago when SHE first learned this game.
Aggro vs aggro mirrors come down to who draws better. Nothing more, nothing less. I take no credit for any of my wins and no blame for any of my losses.
In 5 matches, there was only ONE game where I had to make a decision and it wasn't a hard one.
It was game 3 in the top 8. I was at 12 life. I had my opponent down to 3 life. I was swinging for the match on the next turn. I had a Firewing out and no way for him to block a flier. He had 9 damage on the field. He swung with everything. If I took it all, that would have brought me down to 3 life. Now, he's playing red so that means he could have had a Searing Spear in his hand and burned me for game and match. I didn't want to lose that way so I blocked one of his creatures with my silverblade that was untapped and only took 5 damage instead of 9 and went to 7 life.
That turn he top decked a Thragtusk. Played it second main phase and went to 8 life. I now had one creature (the firewing) could not kill him and was dead next turn. So I did the only thing I could do in this situation. I hit him for the 3, bringing him down to 5 and then played my Blasphemous Act and cleared the field, giving him the beast token and hoping I could top deck something to kill it like a reckonner.
It never came. He played Rancor on the token and I was dead in 2 turns. On the second turn I did draw a Silverblade, but with trample on the beast at down to 2 life, I was dead even if I blocked.
That's what that match came down to...a top decked Thragtusk.
There was no skill involved. He was dead if he didn't draw it.
This is RtR Standard. This is your typical aggro war. It's mindless and it's not a lot of fun for me. That was my only decision all night in 5 matches, to block a creature because I might have been burned to death otherwise.
That doesn't say a lot for this Standard. Not to me.
I know I'm going to get a whole ton of people who will tell me I'm wrong and this Standard is incredibly skillful and blah, blah, blah.
Like I said, I'm a crappy player. 4 weeks prior I won ONE match a night only because I finally got to play somebody who hardly knows how to play the game.
Last night I went 3-1 going into the top 8 without breaking a sweat.
And I was bored stiff. Had it not been for my friends, the night would have been better spent staying home cleaning the bathroom.
Now, having said all that, if you love playing aggro, or think you'll love playing aggro if you're just starting out, and love these kind of mindless luck sacks, then this Standard might just be for you.
Playing against control, you essentially have to do 20 before they pull a Terminus or Verdict. Otherwise, it's going to be very difficult to come back against their Planeswalkers and Obzedat, if they're playing it.
No, you can't overextend, but you can't hold back too much either. If they stabilize with Sorin you'll never break through. Sphinx will bury you in card advantage. That was my one match loss going into the top 8, against control. I had him down to 2 life game one but couldn't finish. I just wasn't fast enough. Again, no thought involved. Once that Verdict hit, I was done.
It is what it is. I've been playing this game long enough to recognize a luck sack format. And this one is at the top of the list of luck sack formats.
Why?
The answer is simple. The value creatures that we now get to play with are off the charts efficient. That's all there is to it. It doesn't take any brains to hit somebody with a 3/3 double striking champion on turn 3. Imagine that. Turn 3, a creature doing 6 damage. Even Goyf can't do that in Modern or Legacy unless you get ridiculously lucky with what cards are in the yard.
I can probably make top 8 every week for the rest of this Standard if I wanted to playing these mindless decks. But I'd never enjoy playing Magic again. So I'm going to go back to my stupid Battle of Wits, clone and defender decks and actually enjoy the deck I'm playing.
But if you're an aggro player, this Standard is your paradise.
Enjoy it while it lasts.
usually it is the bad players that complain about how mindless aggro is.
People deserve a disclaimer or something. Lots of folks on this site are really dumb and think anyone who makes long posts is someone to whom they should pay attention.
I was making a point. Anybody who is bad at Magic can still win in this Standard if they play a mindless aggro deck.
Deny it. Prove me wrong. I'm listening.
And we have one more correct answer to finish the complaints of LBS' posts. 19 years of Magic and still complaining about how aggro is mindless, how combo is not being loved by WotC, how control is not being pushed enough because the lack of Counterspell and how Thragtusk is a mistake. I'm still afraid of even seeing where that link on his signature goes.
Go on mods, ban me, I regret nothing [2].
Even if you disagree with a user, please do not attack them instead.
Thanks
(Give your LGS judge a hug. He deserves it.)
10 - 12 lands? Not where I'm playing. Each match I won with no more than 5 lands out and no later than turn 6 with the exception of the very last game of the last match.
One match I finished in exactly 10 minutes. I was the first one done.
Show me the proof that aggro isn't a luck sack. I've clearly outlined my stance. Outline the line of play for Boros aggro that makes it such a rich, complex deck to play. I'll wait.
Well, I'm not seeing them. Certainly not the one I played last night and not any of the ones I played against.
And everybody else. Instead of attacking me (this forum is great at doing that) how about addressing my points. I've laid out my argument explicitly. I've given my reasons for my opinions. So how about instead of taking pot shots at me, you address my arguments and show me how they're wrong with proof.
Show me how...
Turn 1 Champion
Turn 2 Elite
Turn 3 Silverblade
Turn 4 Hellrider
isn't a luck sack.
People don't have to explain to you how aggro is skilled. Arnnaria was talking about other decks getting a bunch of lands out when facing aggro. Just because your local game store is full of aggro doesn't mean it is indictitive of the overall meta. Your first post casually dismisses Reanimator and lumps midrange in with aggro, even though the precise reason aggro and control are not dominating is because Reanimator and midrange are so good right now.
Your post has some points if its in reference to Blitz, but this is not an aggro format. It's just a format where BTE allows aggro to be faster than some previous years, but slower than other years yet.
It's still a Thragtusk/Restoration Angel format, first and foremost.
Because Boros is a bad deck, and this hand is outclassed by other aggro decks hands. Both Esper and UWR should lose to you game one, and that looks like an easily beatable sequence with either deck having an average keep.
So you're saying I just got lucky last night. If that's so, doesn't that just reinforce my point that playing an aggro deck you can win just by being lucky?
What am I missing here because you seem to be making my point for me.
I also think there are plenty of board states where aggro players can be given highly subjective lines of play. I don't exactly see how Farseek->Huntmaster is all that complex either. Primal Surge and land destruction are obviously fun, but I don't think that necessarily makes them harder to play.
Luck is part of the game. Someone just won an event with a Blitz deck with all creatures and no sideboard. Burning Tree Emissary is that good. But that doesn't mean the sky is falling, it just means the midrange decks play more Centaur Healers now.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
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