So, I got hardcore swept by 4-color control backed by pillar, spear, our life gain creatures and game two counterspells and was forced into 1-1-1 during Swiss to a nearly identical deck last night. My game one is ridiculously decent against B/R aggro I faced twice same event. The help I need stems from the control matchup weakness. My board was 3 drs, 1 decay, 1 bore, 2 acidic slime, 2 Silklash that bent aggro over in place of the two MD RRs, 3 slaughters, and 3 what the hell was I thinkings. I MD 3 keyrune and no haste creates, sadly. I used to run duress and AfB but that clogged things a bit. Can I get some input on our best performing control hate?
So, I got hardcore swept by 4-color control backed by pillar, spear, our life gain creatures and game two counterspells and was forced into 1-1-1 during Swiss to a nearly identical deck last night. My game one is ridiculously decent against B/R aggro I faced twice same event. The help I need stems from the control matchup weakness. My board was 3 drs, 1 decay, 1 bore, 2 acidic slime, 2 Silklash that bent aggro over in place of the two MD RRs, 3 slaughters, and 3 what the hell was I thinkings. I MD 3 keyrune and no haste creates, sadly. I used to run duress and AfB but that clogged things a bit. Can I get some input on our best performing control hate?
Vs control, my winners have been UC, Tribute to Hunger, RR (when they are tapped out or even turn 3 after GoST for x=2), 3-4 Garruks, CoS naming beast, and Slaughter Games naming what you fear most (perhaps Supreme Verdict, Entreat, or Terminas).
Edit, all but CoS are SB only. Mainboard would be my 2 Thundermaw hellkites.
Edit 2: tribute to hunger has been a game winner vs UG flash, U/x hexproof. Along with GoST on occasion.
Honestly, to beat those kinds of control decks... other than getting multiple Thragtusks to resolve via Cavern of Souls... you basically have to get Duress/AfB and Slaughter Games and preferably hit something in their hand. And it helps if you RR them or get Garruk to -3 you 5 cards or get Kessig Wolf Run in play and just start working on their life total.
Honestly, to beat those kinds of control decks... other than getting multiple Thragtusks to resolve via Cavern of Souls... you basically have to get Duress/AfB and Slaughter Games and preferably hit something in their hand. And it helps if you RR them or get Garruk to -3 you 5 cards or get Kessig Wolf Run in play and just start working on their life total.
^^what dark said. In one game, I rr'ed for 2 (I know, nothing majored, but on turn 3 it is nice), the garrark (put a 3/3 beast). If no answer, draw 4 or 5 after a huntmaster or thrag.
Hello; Im new to Standard Jund after i traded a bunch of my Modern Jund cards for Standard Jund (so i know the basics of Jund in general) and recently finished putting together my Jund deck.
1) eventually ill replace the 2x Deadbridge Goliath with 2x Huntmaster
2) I really like Rakdos Keyrune, but i don't know where to fit it in MB. Id like 1-2x.
3) Need help with Sideboard. A singleton Wolfir Silverheart, Zealous Conscipts, or Bloodgift Demon for the last spot? Or another Mizzium Mortars, Sever, Aburpt Decay, Pillar or Grisely Salvage?
4) Appetite for Brains vs. Duress?
5) Is Pillar even neccessary? Zombies doesn't look like its played much anymore...
Hello; Im new to Standard Jund after i traded a bunch of my Modern Jund cards for Standard Jund (so i know the basics of Jund in general) and recently finished putting together my Jund deck.
1) eventually ill replace the 2x Deadbridge Goliath with 2x Huntmaster
2) I really like Rakdos Keyrune, but i don't know where to fit it in MB. Id like 1-2x.
3) Need help with Sideboard. A singleton Wolfir Silverheart, Zealous Conscipts, or Bloodgift Demon for the last spot? Or another Mizzium Mortars, Sever, Aburpt Decay, Pillar or Grisely Salvage?
4) Appetite for Brains vs. Duress?
5) Is Pillar even neccessary? Zombies doesn't look like its played much anymore...
6) 24 Lands vs. 25 Lands?
Any help is greatly appreciated!
• Good idea, Dreadbridge just isnt that impacting of a card.
• I'd drop Salvage and 1 Bloodhall, 25 lands is a tad much but thats just me. Also i'd split up your choice of basics, i'd probably rock 1 forest, 1 mountian. If able, its probably better overall to drop 2 dragonskulls for Cavern of Souls with Bant and U/Wx variants in the meta.
• SB leans heavily on your local meta. Tons of control? Duress, Underworld Connections, Golgari Charm - really good vs sweepers and detention sphere. (possibly CoS since you dont run any MD). Slaughter Games is just a very good SB card against alot of decks. Rolling Temblors are okay if you see alot of decks rocking geist of saint traft. AfB is good as well. Aggro matchups Pillar, VNH since none MB, searing spear, bonfire of the damned / mortars. Reanimator, another DRS, ground seal. Ive seen a few people talk about Silklash spider against alot of tmaws, and Aristocrat's but ive personally never been sold on the idea.
• Both serve a different purpose, and cant be compared to one another in all honesty. Once again, boils down to your local meta.
• Ive always ran 24, some run 23, I dont see as many go to 25.
Back to your sideboard, i'd probably say incorperate atleast Slaughter Games into it, its not great against every deck, but more so than not. Nothing makes me smile more than a t3 SG naming revelations, or Thragtusk, etc. Cards i'd look at dropping first are -
• Nartural End - Golgari Charm is just better all around, and more broad. To be honest in standard right now there arent many artifacts that are just something you need an answer for, unless you're against something silly like Omnidoorthragfire
• Tribute to Hunger - I dont know why its in your SB, sigarda? You already have VNH in your board, he's a better answer for her in my opinion. If you want something like this in your board, i'd probably go with Liliana of the Veil, she is pretty good right now.
• Thunderous wrath - I dont see the point of this in a Jund deck, the miracle is okay both i much rather have bonfire of the damned. Worst case replace it with more Mizzium Mortars.
• Treasure Find - Just isnt that great of a card, in draft its good but in constructed i'd pass. There are much better cards for your board than this.
• Good idea, Dreadbridge just isnt that impacting of a card.
• I'd drop Salvage and 1 Bloodhall, 25 lands is a tad much but thats just me. Also i'd split up your choice of basics, i'd probably rock 1 forest, 1 mountian. If able, its probably better overall to drop 2 dragonskulls for Cavern of Souls with Bant and U/Wx variants in the meta.
• SB leans heavily on your local meta. Tons of control? Duress, Underworld Connections, Golgari Charm - really good vs sweepers and detention sphere. (possibly CoS since you dont run any MD). Slaughter Games is just a very good SB card against alot of decks. Rolling Temblors are okay if you see alot of decks rocking geist of saint traft. AfB is good as well. Aggro matchups Pillar, VNH since none MB, searing spear, bonfire of the damned / mortars. Reanimator, another DRS, ground seal. Ive seen a few people talk about Silklash spider against alot of tmaws, and Aristocrat's but ive personally never been sold on the idea.
• Both serve a different purpose, and cant be compared to one another in all honesty. Once again, boils down to your local meta.
• Ive always ran 24, some run 23, I dont see as many go to 25.
Back to your sideboard, i'd probably say incorperate atleast Slaughter Games into it, its not great against every deck, but more so than not. Nothing makes me smile more than a t3 SG naming revelations, or Thragtusk, etc. Cards i'd look at dropping first are -
• Nartural End - Golgari Charm is just better all around, and more broad. To be honest in standard right now there arent many artifacts that are just something you need an answer for, unless you're against something silly like Omnidoorthragfire
• Tribute to Hunger - I dont know why its in your SB, sigarda? You already have VNH in your board, he's a better answer for her in my opinion. If you want something like this in your board, i'd probably go with Liliana of the Veil, she is pretty good right now.
• Thunderous wrath - I dont see the point of this in a Jund deck, the miracle is okay both i much rather have bonfire of the damned. Worst case replace it with more Mizzium Mortars.
• Treasure Find - Just isnt that great of a card, in draft its good but in constructed i'd pass. There are much better cards for your board than this.
Thanks for all the feedback!
Yeah im working in the SB, deffo adding SG. The natural end + tribute or there because of the additional lifegain, but i guess its not as relevant in Standard Jund as it is in Modern.
I have dropped a Grisly Salvage and the Bloodhall for Keyrune.
Tunderous Wrath is there because i dont have Bonfire
Yeah Cavern is something i also need to get ill work on getting that.
I like 2x Forest instead of Forest/Mountain split because of Garruk's cost and i have the Keyrunes.
All in all, thanks for the feedback it helped alot!
A card i find interesting and could work well with your faster build is Falkenrath Marauders. Maybe one for a DRS?
You need to hit 4 times with the Marauders before they have dealt as much damage as a Thundermaw Hellkite played on the same turn. On top of that Hellkite clears all the blockers.
You need to hit 4 times with the Marauders before they have dealt as much damage as a Thundermaw Hellkite played on the same turn. On top of that Hellkite clears all the blockers.
EDIT: I'm implying that Marauders suck, big time
You actually need to hit twice?
Turn FM comes in: 2 damage, becomes 4/4
Turn after: Swing, 4 damage = 1 damage more than Hellkite. ??
And obviously TMH is better, but since he doesn't have more in the MB, im assuming that he doesn't have any more or something along those lines. I really don't understand why people on this website can't explain something in a nicer way? Everything has to jump to "your an idiot for suggesting that card, it sucks"
You actually need to hit twice?
Turn FM comes in: 2 damage, becomes 4/4
Turn after: Swing, 4 damage = 1 damage more than Hellkite. ??
And obviously TMH is better, but since he doesn't have more in the MB, im assuming that he doesn't have any more or something along those lines. I really don't understand why people on this website can't explain something in a nicer way? Everything has to jump to "your an idiot for suggesting that card, it sucks"
There's no way around this, Marauders is strictly unplayable. On top of being a weaker creature and not being able to clear blockers from his path, he'd suspectible to Searing Spear when you play him. And you shouldn't assume such things in the first place, this is the competitive sub-forum, and he wasn't even asking for budget choices. We don't know if he would like to have more Hellkites on his MD, he's not playing playsets anyway. And the fact is, if you put Marauders on that deck and took something away for it, it would make the deck a lot worse. There's no fat in that lists, although I'd personally play playsets of Thragtuskes and Huntmasters everyday of the week.
tl;dr: Thundermaw Hellkite is strictly better in comparison to Falkenrath Marauders, so you shouldn't go around suggesting that card to anyone that doesn't already play a playset of Hellkites.
There's no way around this, Marauders is strictly unplayable. On top of being a weaker creature and not being able to clear blockers from his path, he'd suspectible to Searing Spear when you play him. And you shouldn't assume such things in the first place, this is the competitive sub-forum, and [B]he wasn't even asking[/B] for budget choices. We don't know if he would like to have more Hellkites on his MD, he's not playing playsets anyway. And the fact is, if you put Marauders on that deck and took something away for it, it would make the deck a lot worse. There's no fat in that lists, although I'd personally play playsets of Thragtuskes and Huntmasters everyday of the week.
tl;dr: Thundermaw Hellkite is strictly better in comparison to Falkenrath Marauders, so you shouldn't go around suggesting that card to anyone that doesn't already play a playset of Hellkites.
Well the damage thing was a misunderstanding because you worded it vaguely/i misunderstood. And again: I know Thundermaw Hellkite is obviously better, your whole analysis on it vs FM is spot-on, but [b]I was merely suggesting[b] a card I thought was interesting and haven't tested that would go along the 'haste' theme. Once again your ignorance amazes me: did i go around suggesting the Mauraders to a bunch of people?
Well the damage thing was a misunderstanding because you worded it vaguely/i misunderstood. And again: I know Thundermaw Hellkite is obviously better, your whole analysis on it vs FM is spot-on, but [b]I was merely suggesting[b] a card I thought was interesting and haven't tested that would go along the 'haste' theme. Once again your ignorance amazes me: did i go around suggesting the Mauraders to a bunch of people?
Indirectly yes, you did suggest it to every player running similar builds.
Well the damage thing was a misunderstanding because you worded it vaguely/i misunderstood. And again: I know Thundermaw Hellkite is obviously better, your whole analysis on it vs FM is spot-on, but [b]I was merely suggesting[b] a card I thought was interesting and haven't tested that would go along the 'haste' theme. Once again your ignorance amazes me: did i go around suggesting the Mauraders to a bunch of people?
Tiemuu was probably a little harsh in the way he responded, but he's right. We just flat out don't have time for cards that are for the most part strictly worse that cards that are already played in the format. Unless you were playing 4 Hellkite and you wanted to start adding a few of these.... no reason not to just play Hellkite.
Sorry, guys, I didn't mean to start a flame war. And I do appreciate the suggestions.
Anyway, truth be told, I don't have playsets of TMH, Huntmaster, or Thragtusk. If I did, I would probably run them. I just tried to make the best deck that I could with the cards that I had available.
That having been said, do you guys think that this build can still be competitive? I mean, it's not like I'm running bad cards. I think what it lacks in bulk and lifegain, it makes up for in speed and versatility.
However, if you think it's absolutely mandatory to play sets of Huntmaster and Thragtusk, then obviously I'd have to consider picking more up.
You started nothing, US. that apprentice is doomed to never graduate from a padawan level at this rate of un-constructive interactions with jedi masters of this fiercely competitive "competitive" forum. Your list is tight on versatility and speed. Thrag maxed out makes us grindy, so if you want to keep things light, max the huntmasters. They aren't as grindy or life adjusting as thrag, but, MAN, they give decks fits, including both aggro and control, depending on who's the beatdown in a given match. You're also accidentally, but we can pretend intentionally, more resilient against slaughter games.
Sorry, guys, I didn't mean to start a flame war. And I do appreciate the suggestions.
Anyway, truth be told, I don't have playsets of TMH, Huntmaster, or Thragtusk. If I did, I would probably run them. I just tried to make the best deck that I could with the cards that I had available.
That having been said, do you guys think that this build can still be competitive? I mean, it's not like I'm running bad cards. I think what it lacks in bulk and lifegain, it makes up for in speed and versatility.
However, if you think it's absolutely mandatory to play sets of Huntmaster and Thragtusk, then obviously I'd have to consider picking more up.
I am not exactly sure when I started playing Jund in Standard . . . but I am pretty sure since I have, out of all the games I have played, I have never taken out any Thrags or Hunts either for another creature or for sideboard purposes . . . not saying they are 100% all the time for every single game, but I just can’t remember ever taking either out and feeling like I now had a better deck.
You started nothing, US. that apprentice is doomed to never graduate from a padawan level at this rate of un-constructive interactions with jedi masters of this fiercely competitive "competitive" forum. Your list is tight on versatility and speed. Thrag maxed out makes us grindy, so if you want to keep things light, max the huntmasters. They aren't as grindy or life adjusting as thrag, but, MAN, they give decks fits, including both aggro and control, depending on who's the beatdown in a given match. You're also accidentally, but we can pretend intentionally, more resilient against slaughter games.
Good stuff, man! Thanks! I'll look into getting more Huntmasters. What do you think should come out of the deck to make room for them?
I am not exactly sure when I started playing Jund in Standard . . . but I am pretty sure since I have, out of all the games I have played, I have never taken out any Thrags or Hunts either for another creature or for sideboard purposes . . . not saying they are 100% all the time for every single game, but I just can’t remember ever taking either out and feeling like I now had a better deck.
Thanks for the observations. They make total sense.
You started nothing, US. that apprentice is doomed to never graduate from a padawan level at this rate of un-constructive interactions with jedi masters of this fiercely competitive "competitive" forum.
Maybe this padawan is different in his approach to the force, maybe he realises the potential dark sides the great masters around him have, and he seeks to change and perfect the system he sees around him for the better. Just maybe.
-Thinking about splashing white for Boros charm. But, i need help with the Manabase. The app i have on my ipod tells me that there are 16 R, 1 RR, 10 B, 4 BB, 18 G, 2 GGG. So what lands would i replace? I was thinking a Stomping Ground and an Overgrown Tomb for Temple Gardens, A Rootbound Crag and Woodland Cemetery for a Sunpetal Grove and an Isolated Chapel. For Boros Charm, i would probably take out 1x Rakdos Keyrune, and 2x Ultimate Price. But if i'm running white anyway, should i include other good white cards, or what?
-Thinking about splashing white for Boros charm. But, i need help with the Manabase. The app i have on my ipod tells me that there are 16 R, 1 RR, 10 B, 4 BB, 18 G, 2 GGG. So what lands would i replace? I was thinking a Stomping Ground and an Overgrown Tomb for Temple Gardens, A Rootbound Crag and Woodland Cemetery for a Sunpetal Grove and an Isolated Chapel. For Boros Charm, i would probably take out 1x Rakdos Keyrune, and 2x Ultimate Price. But if i'm running white anyway, should i include other good white cards, or what?
-Any other help always welcome.
1: Cut the Triumphs! (lol)
2: If you play W, Restoration Angel is an auto-include. It's really the best reason to splash W. I wouldn't splash W for Boros Charm alone, and I'm not sure if I would run it even then. I think Boros Charm is really good for WR/Naya aggro, but other than that, it may prove itself replaceable. But I don't think it's a dead card either.
Imo you should rather splash black for Naya than splash white for Jund. I would play 4 Avacyn's Pilgrims, 4 Stomping Grounds, 4 Temple Gardens and 4 Overgrown Tombs to support a T1 green manadork. Splashing B is pretty easy, I'd use Rakdos Keyrune myself, maybe 3, but also playing Farseeks and 2-3 Blood Crypts and 2-3 Sacred Foundries. Add some Kessig Wolf Runs and Cavern of Souls on top of that, and finish your manabase with few M13 checklands. If you play Garruks, perhaps 2-1 Rootbound Crags and 2-1 Woodland Cemeteries. That's how i'd do it. (If you are afraid of the life-loss from Shocklands, you can always run 1 Blood Crypt and 1 Sacred Foundry and increase the amount of M13 duals instead.)
I'd prolly cut Clan Defiances and Signal the Clans and add 2-3 Bonfires if possible. Your list is gonna be super tight with 4 colours. IMO Keyrune is a good choice because you can still get the needed colourfixing, but also increase your otherwise lower threat-density.
As for your current manabase, add the 4th Overgrown Tomb and 1-3 Blood Crypts / 1-3 Dragonskull Summits and cut some basic lands respectively to their colours. That's just my opinion. The manabase is gonna be really good anyway.
Vs control, my winners have been UC, Tribute to Hunger, RR (when they are tapped out or even turn 3 after GoST for x=2), 3-4 Garruks, CoS naming beast, and Slaughter Games naming what you fear most (perhaps Supreme Verdict, Entreat, or Terminas).
Edit, all but CoS are SB only. Mainboard would be my 2 Thundermaw hellkites.
Edit 2: tribute to hunger has been a game winner vs UG flash, U/x hexproof. Along with GoST on occasion.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Honestly, to beat those kinds of control decks... other than getting multiple Thragtusks to resolve via Cavern of Souls... you basically have to get Duress/AfB and Slaughter Games and preferably hit something in their hand. And it helps if you RR them or get Garruk to -3 you 5 cards or get Kessig Wolf Run in play and just start working on their life total.
^^what dark said. In one game, I rr'ed for 2 (I know, nothing majored, but on turn 3 it is nice), the garrark (put a 3/3 beast). If no answer, draw 4 or 5 after a huntmaster or thrag.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
3x Deathrite Shaman
2x Deadbridge Goliath
2x Huntmaster of the Fells
3x Olivia Voldaren
4x Thragtusk
2x Thundermaw Hellkite
Other Spells (17)
1x Abrupt Decay
3x Dreadbore
2x Ultimate Price
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Sever the Bloodline
1x Grisely Salvage
4x Farseek
2x Rakdos's Return
2x Garruk, Primal Hunter
Landbase (25)
4x Blood Crypt
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Woodland Cemetary
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Rootbound Crag
2x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Stensia Bloodhall
2x Forest
3x Pillar of Flame
2x Appetite for Brains
1x Treasured Find
3x Vampire Nighthawk
2x Tribute to Hunger
1x Natural End
2x Thunderous Wrath
So, a few things.
1) eventually ill replace the 2x Deadbridge Goliath with 2x Huntmaster
2) I really like Rakdos Keyrune, but i don't know where to fit it in MB. Id like 1-2x.
3) Need help with Sideboard. A singleton Wolfir Silverheart, Zealous Conscipts, or Bloodgift Demon for the last spot? Or another Mizzium Mortars, Sever, Aburpt Decay, Pillar or Grisely Salvage?
4) Appetite for Brains vs. Duress?
5) Is Pillar even neccessary? Zombies doesn't look like its played much anymore...
6) 24 Lands vs. 25 Lands?
Any help is greatly appreciated!
My deviantART; if you're interested in alters, PM me!
• Good idea, Dreadbridge just isnt that impacting of a card.
• I'd drop Salvage and 1 Bloodhall, 25 lands is a tad much but thats just me. Also i'd split up your choice of basics, i'd probably rock 1 forest, 1 mountian. If able, its probably better overall to drop 2 dragonskulls for Cavern of Souls with Bant and U/Wx variants in the meta.
• SB leans heavily on your local meta. Tons of control? Duress, Underworld Connections, Golgari Charm - really good vs sweepers and detention sphere. (possibly CoS since you dont run any MD). Slaughter Games is just a very good SB card against alot of decks. Rolling Temblors are okay if you see alot of decks rocking geist of saint traft. AfB is good as well. Aggro matchups Pillar, VNH since none MB, searing spear, bonfire of the damned / mortars. Reanimator, another DRS, ground seal. Ive seen a few people talk about Silklash spider against alot of tmaws, and Aristocrat's but ive personally never been sold on the idea.
• Both serve a different purpose, and cant be compared to one another in all honesty. Once again, boils down to your local meta.
• Ive always ran 24, some run 23, I dont see as many go to 25.
Back to your sideboard, i'd probably say incorperate atleast Slaughter Games into it, its not great against every deck, but more so than not. Nothing makes me smile more than a t3 SG naming revelations, or Thragtusk, etc. Cards i'd look at dropping first are -
• Nartural End - Golgari Charm is just better all around, and more broad. To be honest in standard right now there arent many artifacts that are just something you need an answer for, unless you're against something silly like Omnidoorthragfire
• Tribute to Hunger - I dont know why its in your SB, sigarda? You already have VNH in your board, he's a better answer for her in my opinion. If you want something like this in your board, i'd probably go with Liliana of the Veil, she is pretty good right now.
• Thunderous wrath - I dont see the point of this in a Jund deck, the miracle is okay both i much rather have bonfire of the damned. Worst case replace it with more Mizzium Mortars.
• Treasure Find - Just isnt that great of a card, in draft its good but in constructed i'd pass. There are much better cards for your board than this.
Thanks for all the feedback!
Yeah im working in the SB, deffo adding SG. The natural end + tribute or there because of the additional lifegain, but i guess its not as relevant in Standard Jund as it is in Modern.
I have dropped a Grisly Salvage and the Bloodhall for Keyrune.
Tunderous Wrath is there because i dont have Bonfire
Yeah Cavern is something i also need to get ill work on getting that.
I like 2x Forest instead of Forest/Mountain split because of Garruk's cost and i have the Keyrunes.
All in all, thanks for the feedback it helped alot!
My deviantART; if you're interested in alters, PM me!
Suggestions and feedback welcome. Thanks!
A card i find interesting and could work well with your faster build is Falkenrath Marauders. Maybe one for a DRS?
My deviantART; if you're interested in alters, PM me!
You need to hit 4 times with the Marauders before they have dealt as much damage as a Thundermaw Hellkite played on the same turn. On top of that Hellkite clears all the blockers.
EDIT: I'm implying that Marauders suck, big time
Youtube Channel
You actually need to hit twice?
Turn FM comes in: 2 damage, becomes 4/4
Turn after: Swing, 4 damage = 1 damage more than Hellkite. ??
And obviously TMH is better, but since he doesn't have more in the MB, im assuming that he doesn't have any more or something along those lines. I really don't understand why people on this website can't explain something in a nicer way? Everything has to jump to "your an idiot for suggesting that card, it sucks"
My deviantART; if you're interested in alters, PM me!
Nope:
Hellkite;
1 hit = 5 dmg
2 hits = 10 dmg
3 hits = 15 dmg
4 hits = 20 dmg
Marauders;
1 hits = 2 dmg
2 hits = 6 dmg
3 hits = 12 dmg
4 hits = 20 dmg
There's no way around this, Marauders is strictly unplayable. On top of being a weaker creature and not being able to clear blockers from his path, he'd suspectible to Searing Spear when you play him. And you shouldn't assume such things in the first place, this is the competitive sub-forum, and he wasn't even asking for budget choices. We don't know if he would like to have more Hellkites on his MD, he's not playing playsets anyway. And the fact is, if you put Marauders on that deck and took something away for it, it would make the deck a lot worse. There's no fat in that lists, although I'd personally play playsets of Thragtuskes and Huntmasters everyday of the week.
tl;dr: Thundermaw Hellkite is strictly better in comparison to Falkenrath Marauders, so you shouldn't go around suggesting that card to anyone that doesn't already play a playset of Hellkites.
Youtube Channel
Well the damage thing was a misunderstanding because you worded it vaguely/i misunderstood. And again: I know Thundermaw Hellkite is obviously better, your whole analysis on it vs FM is spot-on, but [b]I was merely suggesting[b] a card I thought was interesting and haven't tested that would go along the 'haste' theme. Once again your ignorance amazes me: did i go around suggesting the Mauraders to a bunch of people?
My deviantART; if you're interested in alters, PM me!
Indirectly yes, you did suggest it to every player running similar builds.
Youtube Channel
Tiemuu was probably a little harsh in the way he responded, but he's right. We just flat out don't have time for cards that are for the most part strictly worse that cards that are already played in the format. Unless you were playing 4 Hellkite and you wanted to start adding a few of these.... no reason not to just play Hellkite.
Anyway, truth be told, I don't have playsets of TMH, Huntmaster, or Thragtusk. If I did, I would probably run them. I just tried to make the best deck that I could with the cards that I had available.
That having been said, do you guys think that this build can still be competitive? I mean, it's not like I'm running bad cards. I think what it lacks in bulk and lifegain, it makes up for in speed and versatility.
However, if you think it's absolutely mandatory to play sets of Huntmaster and Thragtusk, then obviously I'd have to consider picking more up.
I am not exactly sure when I started playing Jund in Standard . . . but I am pretty sure since I have, out of all the games I have played, I have never taken out any Thrags or Hunts either for another creature or for sideboard purposes . . . not saying they are 100% all the time for every single game, but I just can’t remember ever taking either out and feeling like I now had a better deck.
Good stuff, man! Thanks! I'll look into getting more Huntmasters. What do you think should come out of the deck to make room for them?
Thanks for the observations. They make total sense.
Maybe this padawan is different in his approach to the force, maybe he realises the potential dark sides the great masters around him have, and he seeks to change and perfect the system he sees around him for the better. Just maybe.
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Thragtusk, Huntmaster and Olivia are the core of Jund. Don't cut them
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Huntmaster of the Fells
3x Olivia Voldaren
4x Thragtusk
1x Thundermaw Hellkite
Removal:
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Ultimate Price
3x Searing Spear
1x Sever the Bloodline
3x Clan Defiance
Other:
1x Signal the Clans
4x Farseek
2x Rakdos's Return
2x Garruk, Primal Hunter
4x Stomping Ground
3x Overgrown Tomb
1x Blood Crypt
4x Rootbound Crag
3x Woodland Cemetary
1x Dragonskull Summit
2x Kessig Wolf Run
2x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Mountain
3x Deathrite Shaman
2x Duress
3x Dreadbore
2x Triumph of Cruelty
2x Triumph of Ferocity
1x Sever the Bloodline
2x Slaughter Games
-Any help in the Mana Base is appreciated
-I LIKE MAH TRIUMPHS SO BACK OFF!
-Thinking about splashing white for Boros charm. But, i need help with the Manabase. The app i have on my ipod tells me that there are 16 R, 1 RR, 10 B, 4 BB, 18 G, 2 GGG. So what lands would i replace? I was thinking a Stomping Ground and an Overgrown Tomb for Temple Gardens, A Rootbound Crag and Woodland Cemetery for a Sunpetal Grove and an Isolated Chapel. For Boros Charm, i would probably take out 1x Rakdos Keyrune, and 2x Ultimate Price. But if i'm running white anyway, should i include other good white cards, or what?
-Any other help always welcome.
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1: Cut the Triumphs! (lol)
2: If you play W, Restoration Angel is an auto-include. It's really the best reason to splash W. I wouldn't splash W for Boros Charm alone, and I'm not sure if I would run it even then. I think Boros Charm is really good for WR/Naya aggro, but other than that, it may prove itself replaceable. But I don't think it's a dead card either.
Imo you should rather splash black for Naya than splash white for Jund. I would play 4 Avacyn's Pilgrims, 4 Stomping Grounds, 4 Temple Gardens and 4 Overgrown Tombs to support a T1 green manadork. Splashing B is pretty easy, I'd use Rakdos Keyrune myself, maybe 3, but also playing Farseeks and 2-3 Blood Crypts and 2-3 Sacred Foundries. Add some Kessig Wolf Runs and Cavern of Souls on top of that, and finish your manabase with few M13 checklands. If you play Garruks, perhaps 2-1 Rootbound Crags and 2-1 Woodland Cemeteries. That's how i'd do it. (If you are afraid of the life-loss from Shocklands, you can always run 1 Blood Crypt and 1 Sacred Foundry and increase the amount of M13 duals instead.)
I'd prolly cut Clan Defiances and Signal the Clans and add 2-3 Bonfires if possible. Your list is gonna be super tight with 4 colours. IMO Keyrune is a good choice because you can still get the needed colourfixing, but also increase your otherwise lower threat-density.
As for your current manabase, add the 4th Overgrown Tomb and 1-3 Blood Crypts / 1-3 Dragonskull Summits and cut some basic lands respectively to their colours. That's just my opinion. The manabase is gonna be really good anyway.
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